Zone1 A solution to AA that still gives underscoring blacks opportunity to go to a prestigious college without disadvantaging whites and Asians

[Lisa558]

First, I am not talking about black kids whose SAT scores are on par with whites and Asians who would have been accepted even if they weren’t black, but the blacks whose scores are substantially lower but are admitted anyway to achieve a pre-determined racial outcome.

Here’s the proposal: instead of being more lenient with blacks with lower SAT scores, where they often struggle to keep up with the class, why not have a “gap year” to bring them (and any other underscoring kid who wants in to a very competitive program) up to a higher standard - a one-year SAT prep course focused on filling in the educational gaps.

Plus, it doesn’t have to be full-time. It could be half-days, allowing the kids a chance to work a part-time job. Doing so would not only provide them some spending money, but incentivize them to do well in their prep course so as to go on to a great college.

And once they complete the prep year, they will be in a better position to compete with the kids who had higher academic metrics - because they will be equal to them, in terms of academics, and not “coming from behind.”

The course, for lower-income, would be covered by Pell Grants.

Now please let’s discuss this civilly. It‘s a good compromise solution that still gives blacks a chance without discriminating against other races.

 

[Dekster]

First, I am not talking about black kids whose SAT scores are on par with whites and Asians who would have been accepted even if they weren’t black, but the blacks whose scores are substantially lower but are admitted anyway to achieve a pre-determined racial outcome.

Here’s the proposal: instead of being more lenient with blacks with lower SAT scores, where they often struggle to keep up with the class, why not have a “gap year” to bring them (and any other underscoring kid who wants in to a very competitive program) up to a higher standard - a one-year SAT prep course focused on filling in the educational gaps.

Plus, it doesn’t have to be full-time. It could be half-days, allowing the kids a chance to work a part-time job. Doing so would not only provide them some spending money, but incentivize them to do well in their prep course so as to go on to a great college.

And once they complete the prep year, they will be in a better position to compete with the kids who had higher academic metrics - because they will be equal to them, in terms of academics, and not “coming from behind.”

The course, for lower-income, would be covered by Pell Grants.

Now please let’s discuss this civilly. It‘s a good compromise solution that still gives blacks a chance without discriminating against other races.

Not opposed to the idea necessarily but by the time they reach it, the cake is 3/4's baked. It is one of the reasons we have been moving to universal pre-k---to get more ingredients in the batter before it goes into the oven so to speak.

 

[Seymour Flops]

First, I am not talking about black kids whose SAT scores are on par with whites and Asians who would have been accepted even if they weren’t black, but the blacks whose scores are substantially lower but are admitted anyway to achieve a pre-determined racial outcome.

Here’s the proposal: instead of being more lenient with blacks with lower SAT scores, where they often struggle to keep up with the class, why not have a “gap year” to bring them (and any other underscoring kid who wants in to a very competitive program) up to a higher standard - a one-year SAT prep course focused on filling in the educational gaps.

Plus, it doesn’t have to be full-time. It could be half-days, allowing the kids a chance to work a part-time job. Doing so would not only provide them some spending money, but incentivize them to do well in their prep course so as to go on to a great college.

And once they complete the prep year, they will be in a better position to compete with the kids who had higher academic metrics - because they will be equal to them, in terms of academics, and not “coming from behind.”

The course, for lower-income, would be covered by Pell Grants.

Now please let’s discuss this civilly. It‘s a good compromise solution that still gives blacks a chance without discriminating against other races.

I like that idea minus the SAT part. The SAT is at heart an IQ test and all the study in the world wont' improve your score on an IQ test. I was a horrible student in high school, never made it past two years of "intro to algebra," which is now called 7th and 8th grade math in Texas.

But on the SAT, I was able to analyze the questions and figure out how to do the math on most of them, not having learned it in school. The English part was a breeze because I was such a reader. My scores were so high that I got into college in spite of horrible grades and no pre-college courses.

Let them take that gap year to catch up academically, and if they've shown they can do the work, admit them.

 

[Augustine_]

First, I am not talking about black kids whose SAT scores are on par with whites and Asians who would have been accepted even if they weren’t black, but the blacks whose scores are substantially lower but are admitted anyway to achieve a pre-determined racial outcome.

Here’s the proposal: instead of being more lenient with blacks with lower SAT scores, where they often struggle to keep up with the class, why not have a “gap year” to bring them (and any other underscoring kid who wants in to a very competitive program) up to a higher standard - a one-year SAT prep course focused on filling in the educational gaps.

Plus, it doesn’t have to be full-time. It could be half-days, allowing the kids a chance to work a part-time job. Doing so would not only provide them some spending money, but incentivize them to do well in their prep course so as to go on to a great college.

And once they complete the prep year, they will be in a better position to compete with the kids who had higher academic metrics - because they will be equal to them, in terms of academics, and not “coming from behind.”

The course, for lower-income, would be covered by Pell Grants.

Now please let’s discuss this civilly. It‘s a good compromise solution that still gives blacks a chance without discriminating against other races.

AA is due for some discussion but the gap year would end up disproportionately benefiting students from wealthier backgrounds and zip codes, same as the school system does. Also America would never fund something like that.

 

[Lisa558]

AA is due for some discussion but the gap year would end up disproportionately benefiting students from wealthier backgrounds and zip codes, same as the school system does. Also America would never fund something like that.

How so? Wealthier kids ALWAYS had an opportunity to take some time off and have their parents pay for prep courses. This way, poorer students would have an opportunity for at least some prep courses, paid for by others.

As far as America not funding it, Pell Grants cover any educational programming post-high school. But if it doesn’t, it would still be a relatively minor cost that kids could pay for with their part-time earnings.

It’s not a perfect solution, but neither is lowering admissions standards in order to achieve a pre-determined racial quota. This allows a chance, after a gap year, to get into the college they want without having race as a factor in admissions.

I myself took a gap year and was a much better student for it.

 

[the woke segregationist]

my equal pay workplace segregation got moved to another Fourm do you know what fourm that it got moved to i think segregating the colleges and the workplace, would help the intelligence gap because i am not seeing any reason why blacks are being held back due to some college system, discriminating against them don't blacks get free college way more often than whites and Asians? i think black's inferior grades in school has to due with genetics, if the workplace is segregated, well then we will not see stuff like the Affirmative action woke hiring process, in the Minneapolis school district why is the Minneapolis school district trying to get rid of all the white teachers, because they think the only way to end the money gap between whites and blacks, is getting tons of blacks jobs by discriminating against whites, with the workplace being segregated, and both seperate workplaces giving people equal opportunity to become rich, the money gap between whites and blacks will be gone without having to discriminate against whites! Brilliant right? this is what Abraham Lincoln should of done after he freed the slaves.

 

[Augustine_]

How so? Wealthier kids ALWAYS had an opportunity to take some time off and have their parents pay for prep courses. This way, poorer students would have an opportunity for at least some prep courses, paid for by others.

As far as America not funding it, Pell Grants cover any educational programming post-high school. But if it doesn’t, it would still be a relatively minor cost that kids could pay for with their part-time earnings.

It’s not a perfect solution, but neither is lowering admissions standards in order to achieve a pre-determined racial quota. This allows a chance, after a gap year, to get into the college they want without having race as a factor in admissions.

I myself took a gap year and was a much better student for it.

They're needed in the workforce. Not going to happen for all kinds of reasons. "Take a gap year kids, on me!" - the American tax payer? I don't see it happening.

 

[Lisa558]

They're needed in the workforce. Not going to happen for all kinds of reasons. "Take a gap year kids, on me!" - the American tax payer? I don't see it happening.

Look at the alternative: admit black kids with scores well below whites (as a group), where they struggle to keep up.

And who says they’d be in the workforce? They’d be in school, struggling to keep up, and perhaps dropping out - and with a loan outstanding as well.

 

[Lisa558]

I’m thinking that since the black posters on the forum who complain that most of the black kids wouldn’t be given an opportunity to attend the best universities, and that’s why we need to continue race-based decisions, would have something to say about this win-win proposal.

Remember, the beauty of this is that it does not penalize whites or Asians, and STILL gives the black kids with the lower SATs a chance to go to the great schools. They just have to bring their scores up is all - which would be better for them when they arrive at the university in the following year.

I invite more feedback. The idea isn’t perfect, no doubt, but what we have now is far from perfect as well. This approach would be more fair to everyone.

 

[Lisa558]

Or, how about we just let people in based on their own merits?

Fuck blacks. If the really want to be treated as equals then let's do that.

They don't deserve any special treatment or consideration just for being black, not even a teeny tiny bit. They need to get by in life on their own ambition.

Except they STILL would be let in under their own merits or not. The difference is that they would have to spend a year bringing their scores up to the range needed for whites to get in at whatever specific university they’re applying for. If they can’t do it, then they can lower their sights and apply to a different college where their scores are comparable.

I find it interesting that there is very little interest in discussing ways to get blacks into a prestigious college WITHOUT hurting other races. From what I gather from the Black activists, they just want blacks getting admitted even with the lower scores, rather than have them put in the effort to bring the scores up. I say that because they haven’t weighed in on this compromise solution.

 

[Resnic]

Except they STILL would be let in under their own merits or not. The difference is that they would have to spend a year bringing their scores up to the range needed for whites to get in at whatever specific university they’re applying for. If they can’t do it, then they can lower their sights and apply to a different college where their scores are comparable.

I find it interesting that there is very little interest in discussing ways to get blacks into a prestigious college WITHOUT hurting other races. From what I gather from the Black activists, they just want blacks getting admitted even with the lower scores, rather than have them put in the effort to bring the scores up. I say that because they haven’t weighed in on this compromise solution.

There is no way.

If you want to give someone an advantage then you're automatically putting everyone else at a disadvantage.

The bottom line is, blacks aren't equal. If they were then they would get in on their own merits easy peasy. Your argument essentially is showing blacks are inferior in school.

So why would you want to support their inferior? We should focus on the best, not second best.

There is a reason why when you look at man's history across the entire world in every country, how many first world or even second world countries were created by blacks and run by blacks vs whites everyone else? Throughout man's history how many achievements and contributions to the world in architecture, science, math, astro physics, medicine, engineering, exploration, education, and general inventions have been made by blacks vs everyone else? Very very very few. Pretty much every black person that has done well has done so in a white man's founded country.

So why try and cater and prop up the world's runner up race? They have never been in first place for thousands of years or even second place really.

No, when it comes to education, employment and so on it should be truly fair. Those that exceed do so by their own experience, merit, intelligence and ambition. That is truly fair. We don't get to talk about fair and turn around to discuss how to give blacks a advantage of help them out specifically because they can't keep up on their own.

Besides, what about the millions and millions of poor, dumb, broke ass white people in America that can't get into elite schools? Where is their support from you?

 

[Lisa558]

There is no way.

If you want to give someone an advantage then you're automatically putting everyone else at a disadvantage.

The bottom line is, blacks aren't equal. If they were then they would get in on their own merits easy peasy. Your argument essentially is showing blacks are inferior in school.

So why would you want to support their inferior? We should focus on the best, not second best.

There is a reason why when you look at man's history across the entire world in every country, how many first world or even second world countries were created by blacks and run by blacks vs whites everyone else? Throughout man's history how many achievements and contributions to the world in architecture, science, math, astro physics, medicine, engineering, exploration, education, and general inventions have been made by blacks vs everyone else? Very very very few. Pretty much every black person that has done well has done so in a white man's founded country.

So why try and cater and prop up the world's runner up race? They have never been in first place for thousands of years or even second place really.

No, when it comes to education, employment and so on it should be truly fair. Those that exceed do so by their own experience, merit, intelligence and ambition. That is truly fair. We don't get to talk about fair and turn around to discuss how to give blacks a advantage of help them out specifically because they can't keep up on their own.

Besides, what about the millions and millions of poor, dumb, broke ass white people in America that can't get into elite schools? Where is their support from you?

The poor dumb white people could do the same - take the one-year prep course and see if they can bring their scores up to where they would qualify. If not, just like blacks who can’t, they have to find a less competitive college.

i don’t see what you’re so angry about. I‘m basically saying that we should not be more lenient on blacks and just let them in when their scores are inferior. They have to IMPROVE to the point where they qualify under the same standards applied to whites.

 

[IM2]

First, I am not talking about black kids whose SAT scores are on par with whites and Asians who would have been accepted even if they weren’t black, but the blacks whose scores are substantially lower but are admitted anyway to achieve a pre-determined racial outcome.

This doe not happen and SAT scores are not the only thing admissions base acceptance on. And plenty of whites get in with low scores.

 

[Lisa558]

This doe not happen and SAT scores are not the only thing admissions base acceptance on. And plenty of whites get in with low scores.

Don’t be stupid. The average SAT scores of accepted blacks is far lower than those of accepted whites.

The perversion of the original intent of Affirmative Action will stop by the 2023-24 school year, and Asians, Jews, and whites will not be subjected to higher requirements than blacks and Latinos.

 

[Correll]

IMO, we've already given too much and should not give one more cent to AA or any of it's related concepts or policies.

End it, let the chips fall where they may.

 

[Lisa558]

IMO, we've already given too much and should not give one more cent to AA or any of it's related concepts or policies.

End it, let the chips fall where they may.

It’s going to end. The Grutter decision was a weak ruling, and an attempt at a compromise. (They basically kicked the can down the road.) The majority on the SCOTUS now follow the Constitution, and you cannot have different standards for different races. Nor can you devise subjective tests designed to obtain a certain racial outcome.

The case will be heard next month. I suspect they will announce the decision at that time, rather than delay, to allow the leftist universities to drop their race-based decisions in time for the 2023 entering class.

P.S. You wouldn’t believe the discussions that take place behind doors as admissions staff try to figure out ways to get more blacks in, despite lower scores and grades, without risking lawsuits.

 

[Correll]

It’s going to end. The Grutter decision was a weak ruling, and an attempt at a compromise. (They basically kicked the can down the road.) The majority on the SCOTUS now follow the Constitution, and you cannot have different standards for different races. Nor can you devise subjective tests designed to obtain a certain racial outcome.

The case will be heard next month. I suspect they will announce the decision at that time, rather than delay, to allow the leftist universities to drop their race-based decisions in time for the 2023 entering class.

P.S. You wouldn’t believe the discussions that take place behind doors as admissions staff try to figure out ways to get more blacks in, despite lower scores and grades, without risking lawsuits.

Oh, I would believe it. It's called discrimination. Imagine being a want a be white student and hearing that the people making the call are desperately plotting for ways to give your slot to someone else.


THEY SHOULD STOP DOING THAT.

 

[Lisa558]

Oh, I would believe it. It's called discrimination. Imagine being a want a be white student and hearing that the people making the call are desperately plotting for ways to give your slot to someone else.


THEY SHOULD STOP DOING THAT.

Yes, and that was a debate where I worked. Should we publish the scores and grades of accepted blacks (as an average) showing them you don’t have to be “all that” to get into a prestigious program, and thereby encourage blacks who think they don’t have a chance to apply, but risk angering whites who were rejected with far higher scores and grades?

 

[Anathema]

You had me interested until you went rogue and decided that MY TAX was going to pay for it. After that I stopped reading entirely.,

 

[Correll]

Yes, and that was a debate where I worked. Should we publish the scores and grades of accepted blacks (as an average) showing them you don’t have to be “all that” to get into a prestigious program, and thereby encourage blacks who think they don’t have a chance to apply, but risk angering whites who were rejected with far higher scores and grades?

Anyone suggest that letting people know the Truth about how the system works was an Inherent Good in of itself?