A scientific dissent from Darwinism

[rightwinger]

I hear it all the time. About how evolution is a confirmed fact. Well, many scientists disagree. Here is a list of over 500 scientists who have risked their careers by bucking the establishment and signing this list.

http://www.discovery.org/scripts/viewDB/filesDB-download.php?command=download&id=660

Ooh...a list!

Evolution is still a fact. All of those scientists (I'll wager that there are zero publishing biologists on that list) are welcome to publish science that contradicts evolutionary theory. Yet they aren't.

I guess they just don't feel like it, eh?

Prove that evolution is entirely factual.

Prove that God is factual

 

[Syriusly]

I hear it all the time. About how evolution is a confirmed fact. Well, many scientists disagree. Here is a list of over 500 scientists who have risked their careers by bucking the establishment and signing this list.

http://www.discovery.org/scripts/viewDB/filesDB-download.php?command=download&id=660

Ooh...a list!

Evolution is still a fact. All of those scientists (I'll wager that there are zero publishing biologists on that list) are welcome to publish science that contradicts evolutionary theory. Yet they aren't.

I guess they just don't feel like it, eh?

Evolution occurs
That is a fact proven by Biological, fossil, geological and DNA evidence

The how and why it occurs involve theories

God is at best a theory. A theory unsupported by any scientific evidence

You are using theory wrong. A theory is supported by facts and observation. A deity is at best a hypothesis, as there are no proven facts concerning any aspects of a deity. And no observations that can be repeated for others to observe.

I find men like Billy Graham were very polite, honest to a fault, and open to discussion. I find atheists tend to be very angry, nasty, narrow-minded, self-righteous and very much like Madeline Murray O'hair to their discredit. !

Yet here you are- more like Madelaine Murry O'hare than Billy Graham.

 

[LittleNipper]

if you don't believe in evolution you must believe a fully formed man just appeared out of nowhere----that's believable

With GOD all things are possible. If you do not believe in GOD, my guess is that you need to find something else to believe.

Prove that with God all things are entirely factual.

I already have. Without GOD, a creep remains a creep. With GOD, creeps become saints.

 

[LittleNipper]

I hear it all the time. About how evolution is a confirmed fact. Well, many scientists disagree. Here is a list of over 500 scientists who have risked their careers by bucking the establishment and signing this list.

http://www.discovery.org/scripts/viewDB/filesDB-download.php?command=download&id=660

Ooh...a list!

Evolution is still a fact. All of those scientists (I'll wager that there are zero publishing biologists on that list) are welcome to publish science that contradicts evolutionary theory. Yet they aren't.

I guess they just don't feel like it, eh?

Evolution occurs
That is a fact proven by Biological, fossil, geological and DNA evidence

The how and why it occurs involve theories

God is at best a theory. A theory unsupported by any scientific evidence

You are using theory wrong. A theory is supported by facts and observation. A deity is at best a hypothesis, as there are no proven facts concerning any aspects of a deity. And no observations that can be repeated for others to observe.

I find men like Billy Graham were very polite, honest to a fault, and open to discussion. I find atheists tend to be very angry, nasty, narrow-minded, self-righteous and very much like Madeline Murray O'hair to their discredit. !

Yet here you are- more like Madelaine Murry O'hare than Billy Graham.

I'd have to say that I certainly wish I was more like Billy Graham.

 

[rightwinger]

I hear it all the time. About how evolution is a confirmed fact. Well, many scientists disagree. Here is a list of over 500 scientists who have risked their careers by bucking the establishment and signing this list.

http://www.discovery.org/scripts/viewDB/filesDB-download.php?command=download&id=660

Ooh...a list!

Evolution is still a fact. All of those scientists (I'll wager that there are zero publishing biologists on that list) are welcome to publish science that contradicts evolutionary theory. Yet they aren't.

I guess they just don't feel like it, eh?

Prove that evolution is entirely factual.

No question evolution occurs
No evidence of god

Prove it!

OK

Just look at rock strata and fossil evidence

At low levels there are only simple organisms
As you move up the strata, more complex organisms appear

Blows your biblical version apart....Your turn
Provide proof of God

 

[Fort Fun Indiana]

Prove that evolution is entirely factua

What a bizarre request....I will leave that to scientists. When you need surgery, do you ask your neighbor, or do you ask a surgeon? See, you sound stupid.

 

[harmonica]

I hear it all the time. About how evolution is a confirmed fact. Well, many scientists disagree. Here is a list of over 500 scientists who have risked their careers by bucking the establishment and signing this list.

http://www.discovery.org/scripts/viewDB/filesDB-download.php?command=download&id=660

Ooh...a list!

Evolution is still a fact. All of those scientists (I'll wager that there are zero publishing biologists on that list) are welcome to publish science that contradicts evolutionary theory. Yet they aren't.

I guess they just don't feel like it, eh?

Prove that evolution is entirely factual.

as stated many times on the thread, it's up to you to prove there is a god
....as in court cases, the state/prosecutor/etc is the initiator of the claim and has the burden of proof...if someone claims ''there is a god'', it's up to them to either prove it, or their claim is nothing but crap.....
..just like on USMB--people claim all kind of crap without any evidence so their claims are crap
..I can claim crap:
alligators are the true species
TVs make people think about curtains
etc etc

 

[abu afak]

"Proof" is a false standard used by low IQ godists to try and give their ideas as much weight as EVIDENTIARY Based ideas/Facts.

I call it the "Everything is just a belief Fallacy".
Wherein godists say their belief in god/dog is just as good as Evo because because neither has "proof."

Of course, Evo has Overwhelming EVIDENCE, god/godS have NONE.
"Belief" in god is called "Faith" (belief withOUT evidence).
'Believing' Evo is acknowledging FACTS.

And science doesn't deal in "proof", it deals in theories affirmed over time.
"Proofs" are for Math.

15 Answers to Creationist Nonsense
Scientific American
By John Rennie - Editor in Chief
June 2002
15 Answers to Creationist Nonsense - Scientific American

1. Evolution is Only a theory. It is not a fact or a scientific law.

Many people learned in Elementary School that a theory falls in the middle of a hierarchy of certainty--above a mere hypothesis but below a law. Scientists do Not use the terms that way, however.

According to the National Academy of Sciences (NAS), a scientific theory is "a well-substantiated explanation of some aspect of the natural world that can incorporate facts, laws, inferences, and tested hypotheses."
No amount of validation changes a theory into a Law, which is a descriptive generalization about nature.
So when scientists talk about the theory of evolution--or the atomic theory or the theory of relativity, for that matter--they are NOT expressing reservations about its truth.

In addition to the theory of evolution, meaning the idea of descent with modification, one may also speak of the FACT of evolution...​

`

 

[LittleNipper]

I hear it all the time. About how evolution is a confirmed fact. Well, many scientists disagree. Here is a list of over 500 scientists who have risked their careers by bucking the establishment and signing this list.

http://www.discovery.org/scripts/viewDB/filesDB-download.php?command=download&id=660

Ooh...a list!

Evolution is still a fact. All of those scientists (I'll wager that there are zero publishing biologists on that list) are welcome to publish science that contradicts evolutionary theory. Yet they aren't.

I guess they just don't feel like it, eh?

Prove that evolution is entirely factual.

No question evolution occurs
No evidence of god

Prove it!

OK

Just look at rock strata and fossil evidence

At low levels there are only simple organisms
As you move up the strata, more complex organisms appear

Blows your biblical version apart....Your turn
Provide proof of God

The rock strata only proves that the FLOOD had depth and occurred in stages and wasn't simply water sloshing about. Bigger animals are going to be easier to discover than average sized ones. Humans are going to try to climb out of harm's way. Creatures that ended up floating on top would be the ones that would rot away without a trace. Water organisms are going to be more prevalent and would be first to get buried in the silt and any churning muck. The Bible declares that the original creation of GOD was GOOD. The Fall of man brings about corruption, change and death. The Flood brought about total destruction, much oblivian, and a change in the surface of the entire Earth ---- likely the end result of the universal shakeup of the entire creation (including the solar system, galaxies, and the universe). I personally believe that even the moon was likely once smooth and not pocked. And meteors and asteroids did not exist... Strata is most likely the combination of multiple events --- preFlood creation, meteoric collisions, comet impacts, volcanic upheavals, and the Flood's subsidence. And then we have thousands of years of post Flood events that add their own confusion to the mix.

And frankly, there is also the interference of Satan himself. Do you really imagine that he would not try his best to interfere with man's understanding? Does Satan want man to repent and believe GOD? Why wouldn't he make things difficult or give man a counterfeit "creation" story to eliminate GOD. So, finally it comes down to believing GOD by FAITH and not seeking after signs... All the proof in the world will not save anyone if that one rejects GOD. Satan has lost the battle when Christ died on the cross; however, he was the original cherub that GOD placed in charge of the material world and particularly the Earth. So GOD allowed satan to bring the Flood and Satan orchestrated it to his advantage; however, GOD revealed to us what actually happened in His word. Satan is still presently the author of confusion and is still attempting to manipulate the data. What are you going to trust?

 

[Wuwei]

The rock strata only proves that the FLOOD had depth and occurred in stages and wasn't simply water sloshing about. Bigger animals are going to be easier to discover than average sized ones. Humans are going to try to climb out of harm's way. Creatures that ended up floating on top would be the ones that would rot away without a trace. Water organisms are going to be more prevalent and would be first to get buried in the silt and any churning muck. The Bible declares that the original creation of GOD was GOOD. The Fall of man brings about corruption, change and death. The Flood brought about total destruction, much oblivian, and a change in the surface of the entire Earth ---- likely the end result of the universal shakeup of the entire creation (including the solar system, galaxies, and the universe). I personally believe that even the moon was likely once smooth and not pocked. And meteors and asteroids did not exist... Strata is most likely the combination of multiple events --- preFlood creation, meteoric collisions, comet impacts, volcanic upheavals, and the Flood's subsidence. And then we have thousands of years of post Flood events that add their own confusion to the mix.

And frankly, there is also the interference of Satan himself. Do you really imagine that he would not try his best to interfere with man's understanding? Does Satan want man to repent and believe GOD? Why wouldn't he make things difficult or give man a counterfeit "creation" story to eliminate GOD. So, finally it comes down to believing GOD by FAITH and not seeking after signs... All the proof in the world will not save anyone if that one rejects GOD. Satan has lost the battle when Christ died on the cross; however, he was the original cherub that GOD placed in charge of the material world and particularly the Earth. So GOD allowed satan to bring the Flood and Satan orchestrated it to his advantage; however, GOD revealed to us what actually happened in His word. Satan is still presently the author of confusion and is still attempting to manipulate the data. What are you going to trust?

You are assuming the existence of God in order to prove the existence of God. It is no proof when you axiomatically assume the very thing you are trying to prove.

 

[rightwinger]

Ooh...a list!

Evolution is still a fact. All of those scientists (I'll wager that there are zero publishing biologists on that list) are welcome to publish science that contradicts evolutionary theory. Yet they aren't.

I guess they just don't feel like it, eh?

Prove that evolution is entirely factual.

No question evolution occurs
No evidence of god

Prove it!

OK

Just look at rock strata and fossil evidence

At low levels there are only simple organisms
As you move up the strata, more complex organisms appear

Blows your biblical version apart....Your turn
Provide proof of God

The rock strata only proves that the FLOOD had depth and occurred in stages and wasn't simply water sloshing about. Bigger animals are going to be easier to discover than average sized ones. Humans are going to try to climb out of harm's way. Creatures that ended up floating on top would be the ones that would rot away without a trace. Water organisms are going to be more prevalent and would be first to get buried in the silt and any churning muck. The Bible declares that the original creation of GOD was GOOD. The Fall of man brings about corruption, change and death. The Flood brought about total destruction, much oblivian, and a change in the surface of the entire Earth ---- likely the end result of the universal shakeup of the entire creation (including the solar system, galaxies, and the universe). I personally believe that even the moon was likely once smooth and not pocked. And meteors and asteroids did not exist... Strata is most likely the combination of multiple events --- preFlood creation, meteoric collisions, comet impacts, volcanic upheavals, and the Flood's subsidence. And then we have thousands of years of post Flood events that add their own confusion to the mix.

And frankly, there is also the interference of Satan himself. Do you really imagine that he would not try his best to interfere with man's understanding? Does Satan want man to repent and believe GOD? Why wouldn't he make things difficult or give man a counterfeit "creation" story to eliminate GOD. So, finally it comes down to believing GOD by FAITH and not seeking after signs... All the proof in the world will not save anyone if that one rejects GOD. Satan has lost the battle when Christ died on the cross; however, he was the original cherub that GOD placed in charge of the material world and particularly the Earth. So GOD allowed satan to bring the Flood and Satan orchestrated it to his advantage; however, GOD revealed to us what actually happened in His word. Satan is still presently the author of confusion and is still attempting to manipulate the data. What are you going to trust?

Wrong again Nips

The flood would have deposited a single layer of mud and sediment that would be filled with the remains of all the animals and people that God killed
If there had been a flood like the Bible said, there would be a massive strata full of lions, tigers, dinosaurs, people,birds, snakes, unicorns and troglodytes

 

[RWNJ]

The rock strata only proves that the FLOOD had depth and occurred in stages and wasn't simply water sloshing about. Bigger animals are going to be easier to discover than average sized ones. Humans are going to try to climb out of harm's way. Creatures that ended up floating on top would be the ones that would rot away without a trace. Water organisms are going to be more prevalent and would be first to get buried in the silt and any churning muck. The Bible declares that the original creation of GOD was GOOD. The Fall of man brings about corruption, change and death. The Flood brought about total destruction, much oblivian, and a change in the surface of the entire Earth ---- likely the end result of the universal shakeup of the entire creation (including the solar system, galaxies, and the universe). I personally believe that even the moon was likely once smooth and not pocked. And meteors and asteroids did not exist... Strata is most likely the combination of multiple events --- preFlood creation, meteoric collisions, comet impacts, volcanic upheavals, and the Flood's subsidence. And then we have thousands of years of post Flood events that add their own confusion to the mix.

And frankly, there is also the interference of Satan himself. Do you really imagine that he would not try his best to interfere with man's understanding? Does Satan want man to repent and believe GOD? Why wouldn't he make things difficult or give man a counterfeit "creation" story to eliminate GOD. So, finally it comes down to believing GOD by FAITH and not seeking after signs... All the proof in the world will not save anyone if that one rejects GOD. Satan has lost the battle when Christ died on the cross; however, he was the original cherub that GOD placed in charge of the material world and particularly the Earth. So GOD allowed satan to bring the Flood and Satan orchestrated it to his advantage; however, GOD revealed to us what actually happened in His word. Satan is still presently the author of confusion and is still attempting to manipulate the data. What are you going to trust?

You are assuming the existence of God in order to prove the existence of God. It is no proof when you axiomatically assume the very thing you are trying to prove.

How is that any different than what evolutionists do? You do the exact same thing. You make assumptions, then claim that evolution predicted them. Evolution is a hypothesis looking for evidence. It doesn't even qualify as a scientific theory. It does not use the scientific process.

 

[Fort Fun Indiana]

The rock strata only proves that the FLOOD had depth and occurred in stages

100% wrong. The strata proves that there has never been a worldwide flood. Period.

 

[rightwinger]

The rock strata only proves that the FLOOD had depth and occurred in stages and wasn't simply water sloshing about. Bigger animals are going to be easier to discover than average sized ones. Humans are going to try to climb out of harm's way. Creatures that ended up floating on top would be the ones that would rot away without a trace. Water organisms are going to be more prevalent and would be first to get buried in the silt and any churning muck. The Bible declares that the original creation of GOD was GOOD. The Fall of man brings about corruption, change and death. The Flood brought about total destruction, much oblivian, and a change in the surface of the entire Earth ---- likely the end result of the universal shakeup of the entire creation (including the solar system, galaxies, and the universe). I personally believe that even the moon was likely once smooth and not pocked. And meteors and asteroids did not exist... Strata is most likely the combination of multiple events --- preFlood creation, meteoric collisions, comet impacts, volcanic upheavals, and the Flood's subsidence. And then we have thousands of years of post Flood events that add their own confusion to the mix.

And frankly, there is also the interference of Satan himself. Do you really imagine that he would not try his best to interfere with man's understanding? Does Satan want man to repent and believe GOD? Why wouldn't he make things difficult or give man a counterfeit "creation" story to eliminate GOD. So, finally it comes down to believing GOD by FAITH and not seeking after signs... All the proof in the world will not save anyone if that one rejects GOD. Satan has lost the battle when Christ died on the cross; however, he was the original cherub that GOD placed in charge of the material world and particularly the Earth. So GOD allowed satan to bring the Flood and Satan orchestrated it to his advantage; however, GOD revealed to us what actually happened in His word. Satan is still presently the author of confusion and is still attempting to manipulate the data. What are you going to trust?

You are assuming the existence of God in order to prove the existence of God. It is no proof when you axiomatically assume the very thing you are trying to prove.

How is that any different than what evolutionists do? You do the exact same thing. You make assumptions, then claim that evolution predicted them. Evolution is a hypothesis looking for evidence. It doesn't even qualify as a scientific theory. It does not use the scientific process.

Evolutionists have facts to support their conclusions

Creationists have none

 

[Wuwei]

How is that any different than what evolutionists do? You do the exact same thing. You make assumptions, then claim that evolution predicted them. Evolution is a hypothesis looking for evidence. It doesn't even qualify as a scientific theory. It does not use the scientific process.

You are totally wrong. It is the evidence that drives evolution.

There are about 30 different isotopic studies that provide the time frames of the various strata. With that you can put together a time line.

 

[RWNJ]

How is that any different than what evolutionists do? You do the exact same thing. You make assumptions, then claim that evolution predicted them. Evolution is a hypothesis looking for evidence. It doesn't even qualify as a scientific theory. It does not use the scientific process.

You are totally wrong. It is the evidence that drives evolution.

There are about 30 different isotopic studies that provide the time frames of the various strata. With that you can put together a time line.

Didn't you know? The strata are messed up. There are fossils from other time periods where they don't belong. The geologic column, which is what you are referring to, is a joke. And how did all of those fossils get buried in the first place? The only explanation is a catastrophic event, like Noah's flood. Otherwise, there would be few, if any, fossils.

 

[rightwinger]

How is that any different than what evolutionists do? You do the exact same thing. You make assumptions, then claim that evolution predicted them. Evolution is a hypothesis looking for evidence. It doesn't even qualify as a scientific theory. It does not use the scientific process.

You are totally wrong. It is the evidence that drives evolution.

There are about 30 different isotopic studies that provide the time frames of the various strata. With that you can put together a time line.

Didn't you know? The strata are messed up. There are fossils from other time periods where they don't belong. The geologic column, which is what you are referring to, is a joke. And how did all of those fossils get buried in the first place? The only explanation is a catastrophic event, like Noah's flood. Otherwise, there would be few, if any, fossils.

How does strata get “messed up”???
Why are there no dinosaurs mixed up with troglodytes of an earlier era?
Why are there no human fossils mixed with dinosaurs?

The long accumulation of rock strata over time and the separation of complex species from simpler species of an earlier era provide clear proof of evolution and disprove any great flood

 

[Wuwei]

Didn't you know? The strata are messed up. There are fossils from other time periods where they don't belong. The geologic column, which is what you are referring to, is a joke. And how did all of those fossils get buried in the first place? The only explanation is a catastrophic event, like Noah's flood. Otherwise, there would be few, if any, fossils.

If you really need to think "the strata are messed up" you don't have to resort to the Bible. There have been many catastrophic events much worse than a flood.

Super volcanoes:
There are 6 Remaining Supervolcanoes on Earth. They Can Blow At Any Time.

Huge Asteroids
Asteroid Impacts: 10 Biggest Known Hits

So do you think all those catastrophic events happened in the last 10 thousand years?

 

[RWNJ]

Didn't you know? The strata are messed up. There are fossils from other time periods where they don't belong. The geologic column, which is what you are referring to, is a joke. And how did all of those fossils get buried in the first place? The only explanation is a catastrophic event, like Noah's flood. Otherwise, there would be few, if any, fossils.

If you really need to think "the strata are messed up" you don't have to resort to the Bible. There have been many catastrophic events much worse than a flood.

Super volcanoes:
There are 6 Remaining Supervolcanoes on Earth. They Can Blow At Any Time.

Huge Asteroids
Asteroid Impacts: 10 Biggest Known Hits

So do you think all those catastrophic events happened in the last 10 thousand years?

The geologic column spans the entire globe. There are sedimentary layers that are continuous across several countries. Only a massive flood could account for this. Ask any geologist. Now, the fossils found in these intact layers are in the wrong layers. Some are found in both earlier and later fossil layers. In other words, there are fossils found in sedimentary layers that are supposed to belong in a deeper layer, when they supposedly went extinct.

 

[Moonglow]

if you don't believe in evolution you must believe a fully formed man just appeared out of nowhere----that's believable

Why not a God did..