A quick question about the shutdown.

[kyzr]

I do. Cuz I can read.
The Democrat-proposed CR includes an additional $1.5 trillion in spending for various items, primarily focused on healthcare. Specific components reportedly include:

• Affordable Care Act (ACA) subsidies: A permanent extension of enhanced subsidies to help lower- and middle-income individuals afford health insurance, which were set to expire.
• Healthcare funding: Restoring billions in funding that Republicans cut from programs such as the Rural Health Transformation Fund.
• Protections for certain programs: Democrats sought to protect funding levels for programs such as Medicaid.
• Reversal of executive actions: The proposal includes language to reverse certain actions from the previous administration, particularly those related to funding and policy.

Congratulations on reading thru that, I prefer spreadsheets.
ACA subsidies would cost about $130b a year.
The rural health transformation program would cost $10b a year
Medicaid cuts from $619b should only be a few $billion
Reverse EOs, might be DOGE cuts, about $200b

So identifying specific items gets us to about $400b at most. So where does that other $1.1T go? To democrats and illegals?

In plain English, that $1.5T add back is DOA.

 

[citygator]

Congratulations on reading thru that, I prefer spreadsheets.
ACA subsidies would cost about $130b a year.
The rural health transformation program would cost $10b a year
Medicaid cuts from $619b should only be a few $billion
Reverse EOs, might be DOGE cuts, about $200b

So identifying specific items gets us to about $400b at most. So where does that other $1.1T go? To democrats and illegals?

In plain English, that $1.5T add back is DOA.

They multiplied those numbers times 10 years. It's $1.5T over 10 years. At the same time Trump raised the debt by $3.5T for tax cuts and military spending. It would have been $5.0T if he didnt cut $150B of healthcare per year from those who can afford it the least - those on ACA and medicaid.

I feel like if you are going to weigh in on how bad you think something is you should catch up on the basics and not just knee jerk toward thinking everything the dems ask for is stupid and everything Donald and the GOP tells you is correct.

I feel like you now realize this isnt to give illegals a trillion dollars now. But I dont think anything would make you contemplate the issue.

 

[kyzr]

They multiplied those numbers times 10 years. It's $1.5T over 10 years. At the same time Trump raised the debt by $3.5T for tax cuts and military spending. It would have been $5.0T if he didnt cut $150B of healthcare per year from those who can afford it the least - those on ACA and medicaid.

We're not comparing apples to apples. Republicans cut $1.5T off Biden's last annual budget. None of that $1.5T was the Covid subsidy, which expires at the end of 2025. The CBO revised that $3.5T over 10-years to $2.4T over 10-years.

Trump tax bill will add $2.4 trillion to the deficit and leave 10.9 million more uninsured, CBO says

President Donald Trump’s big bill is likely to unleash trillions in tax cuts and slash spending, but also spike deficits by $2.4 trillion over the decade and leave some 10.9 million more people without health insurance.

apnews.com

I feel like if you are going to weigh in on how bad you think something is you should catch up on the basics and not just knee jerk toward thinking everything the dems ask for is stupid and everything Donald and the GOP tells you is correct.
I feel like you now realize this isnt to give illegals a trillion dollars now. But I dont think anything would make you contemplate the issue.

All I know is that Schumer and Hakeem insist on adding $1.5T back into the ANNUAL budget, which is what Republicans just cut to get to a balanced budget. I can show a potential balanced budget by adding the following revenue, to the $240b annual deficit:
$200b if DOGE savings are enacted by congress
$600b if/when the Fed lowers interest rates 2%
$300b if the GDP hits 3% instead of the 1.8% the CBO assumed
$100b if tariffs hit $400b instead of the assumed $300b

I'm okay adding back the $130b cost for keeping the ACA subsidy for US citizens, none for illegals.

 

[Lesh]

Do only about 1/3 the cost of what Trump just gave to Argentina.

Wonder how many millions of American citizens could have retained health insurance for that amount.

WW

Wrong. Read it again. It talks about the enhanced subsidies and then says “these subsidies” meaning the enhanced ones

You moron

 

[Lesh]

Again. 1.5 B is the total cost of all the subsidies over ten ******* years

The enhanced subsidies amount to only 350B over that time. THAT is what the GOP is trying to cut and it will DOUBLE the premium costs for those on ACA

You dope

 

[citygator]

We're not comparing apples to apples. Republicans cut $1.5T off Biden's last annual budget. None of that $1.5T was the Covid subsidy, which expires at the end of 2025. The CBO revised that $3.5T over 10-years to $2.4T over 10-years.

Trump tax bill will add $2.4 trillion to the deficit and leave 10.9 million more uninsured, CBO says

President Donald Trump’s big bill is likely to unleash trillions in tax cuts and slash spending, but also spike deficits by $2.4 trillion over the decade and leave some 10.9 million more people without health insurance.

apnews.com

All I know is that Schumer and Hakeem insist on adding $1.5T back into the ANNUAL budget, which is what Republicans just cut to get to a balanced budget. I can show a potential balanced budget by adding the following revenue, to the $240b annual deficit:
$200b if DOGE savings are enacted by congress
$600b if/when the Fed lowers interest rates 2%
$300b if the GDP hits 3% instead of the 1.8% the CBO assumed
$100b if tariffs hit $400b instead of the assumed $300b

I'm okay adding back the $130b cost for keeping the ACA subsidy for US citizens, none for illegals.

Look. I appreciate your effort but you are conflating many things so lets be accurate.

HR 5450 (hyperlinked) is a straight bill that extends the healthcare subsidies and the Medicare extension. That is the request.

There is no other new spending in it. It has language that precludes the president from not spending approved budget items which he is illegally doing. That's it. Read it.

It is ONLY the $150B annual expense for 42M people and none are illegal. A small sliver of 1M are here legally.

Feel free to link whatever you are referring to and I can look into it.

https://www.congress.gov/bill/119th-congress/house-bill/5450

 

[kyzr]

Look. I appreciate your effort but you are conflating many things so lets be accurate.
HR 5450 (hyperlinked) is a straight bill that extends the healthcare subsidies and the Medicare extension. That is the request.
There is no other new spending in it. It has language that precludes the president from not spending approved budget items which he is illegally doing. That's it. Read it.
It is ONLY the $150B annual expense for 42M people and none are illegal. A small sliver of 1M are here legally.
Feel free to link whatever you are referring to and I can look into it.

Ok, so you are referring to the democrat's version of the CR, where they want, (copied from the HR 5450 summary)

"This bill provides continuing FY2026 appropriations for federal agencies, permanently extends the expanded premium tax credit for purchasing health insurance, provides additional funding for Medicaid and security for federal officials, and extends various expiring programs.
Specifically, the bill provides continuing FY2026 appropriations to federal agencies through the earlier of October 31, 2025, or the enactment of the applicable appropriations act. It is known as a continuing resolution (CR) and prevents a government shutdown that would otherwise occur if the FY2026 appropriations bills have not been enacted when FY2026 begins on October 1, 2025.
The CR funds most programs and activities at the FY2025 levels with several exceptions that provide funding flexibility and additional appropriations for various programs. For example, the CR provides additional funding for the Corporation for Public Broadcasting and security for federal officials."

So either Republicans are scoring HR 5450 over 10 years calling it a $1.5T add, or there is something else that counters the $1.5T that the BBB cut from Biden's last budget? Thune needs to go nuclear or those morons in congress will never agree on anything.

 

[citygator]

Ok, so you are referring to the democrat's version of the CR, where they want, (copied from the HR 5450 summary)

"This bill provides continuing FY2026 appropriations for federal agencies, permanently extends the expanded premium tax credit for purchasing health insurance, provides additional funding for Medicaid and security for federal officials, and extends various expiring programs.
Specifically, the bill provides continuing FY2026 appropriations to federal agencies through the earlier of October 31, 2025, or the enactment of the applicable appropriations act. It is known as a continuing resolution (CR) and prevents a government shutdown that would otherwise occur if the FY2026 appropriations bills have not been enacted when FY2026 begins on October 1, 2025.
The CR funds most programs and activities at the FY2025 levels with several exceptions that provide funding flexibility and additional appropriations for various programs. For example, the CR provides additional funding for the Corporation for Public Broadcasting and security for federal officials."

So either Republicans are scoring HR 5450 over 10 years calling it a $1.5T add, or there is something else that counters the $1.5T that the BBB cut from Biden's last budget? Thune needs to go nuclear or those morons in congress will never agree on anything.

Yes. They are scoring it over 10 years as we discussed above. I am not sure how that makes democrats morons. I mean this is what the republicans released. This childish incorrect meme:

That was from the house appropriations committee. The GOP are not serious people. I mean, you barely have your hands around what anyone is asking but you have a very strong opinion on who has the better path.

You have found out that the GOP was lying about healthcare for illegals. You found out that it isnt $1.5T annually. You found out that the Dems are addressing the cost of healtcare for 42M. You've found out a lot since your initial opinion was formed but you still are dug into the outcome of the GOP because somehow you think they are right even though all the facts you understood were wrong? How does that make sense?

 

[M14 Shooter]

The enhanced subsidies amount to only 350B over that time. THAT is what the GOP is trying to cut and it will DOUBLE the premium costs for those on ACA

This is a lie.
See post # 268..
There, you will find the $1.5T (and other things) the GOP will, quite rightly, not vote for.
They are not trying to cut the enhanced subsidies - those are set to expire and thus have already been cut.

All you do is lie.

 

[BULLDOG]

They are NOT liberals, for ****'s sake. They are scum.

If you choose not to call them by what they are -- SCUM, then call them by something more accurate, like "Leftists"

But they GOD-DAMNED sure aren't 'liberals'

the left does this shit all the time. They change your language. Humans use language to form thought, to plan, to co-habitate, to farm, to work, to play, to THINK. We THINK in words.

Don't let the scum of the Earth control how you think. Because that IS what they're trying to do when when they call themselves 'liberals'. Scum of the Earth is more like it. If it makes your tummy hurt to call them waht they are,then call them Leftists. NOT liberals.

Doing that is an insult to sentient beings everywhere.

dimocraps are scum

period

I see your trump cult brainwashing is complete.

 

[kyzr]

Yes. They are scoring it over 10 years as we discussed above. I am not sure how that makes democrats morons. I mean this is what the republicans released. This childish incorrect meme:

Yes childish. Thune needs to change the rules for CRs and appropriations.

That was from the house appropriations committee. The GOP are not serious people. I mean, you barely have your hands around what anyone is asking but you have a very strong opinion on who has the better path.

I do know what a "clean CR" is, and that democrat's demands are wayyyyyy outside their lane. Thune needs to change the rules.

You have found out that the GOP was lying about healthcare for illegals. You found out that it isnt $1.5T annually. You found out that the Dems are addressing the cost of healthcare for 42M. You've found out a lot since your initial opinion was formed but you still are dug into the outcome of the GOP because somehow you think they are right even though all the facts you understood were wrong? How does that make sense?

1. Democrats lie about everything for illegals, healthcare, housing, food, NGOs, jobs, and voting.

2. True, extending just the Covid subsidy just for Americans would cost about $130b annually

3. When you say 42m it was 44m in 2024 on ACA. Do you believe even people earning $500k a year should get subsidies?

4. My positions are based on annual budgets, not 10-yr scoring budgets.

5. Lets look at Biden's budgets and the BBB to compare.

...Biden's budget, note $1.83T deficit add to the debt


These details of the BBB are tough to follow, so see CBO projection below

One Big Beautiful Bill Act - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Revised CBO scoring shows a BBB $2.4T 10-year deficit, or $240b deficit annually, compared to Bidens $1.83T annual deficit

H.R. 1, One Big Beautiful Bill Act (Dynamic Estimate)

As passed by the House of Representatives on May 22, 2025

www.cbo.gov

So Republicans say they cut $1.5T off Biden's deficit, they mean annual budget, $1.83T - $1.5T = $0.33T which was about the first CBO score of $3.5T over 10-years. (0.33 is about 0.35)

So it looks to be a fluke of numbers that democrats want to add back $1.5T to the BBB. BUT.
I was talking $1.5T annually restoring ALL cuts in the BBB, basically getting back to Biden's budget and
you were talking about adding back the $150b subsidy but over 10-years getting the same $1.5T add

I'm fine adding back $130b annually just for the subsidy, means tested, but nothing else, no PBS, etc.

That would take monthly premiums for a family of 4 back to $900 instead of $1,600.

 

[WorldWatcher]

Yes childish. Thune needs to change the rules for CRs and appropriations.

Thune can't change the rules.

It take a majority of votes in the Senate to change the rules.

WW

 

[citygator]

Yes childish. Thune needs to change the rules for CRs and appropriations.

I do know what a "clean CR" is, and that democrat's demands are wayyyyyy outside their lane. Thune needs to change the rules.

1. Democrats lie about everything for illegals, healthcare, housing, food, NGOs, jobs, and voting.

2. True, extending just the Covid subsidy just for Americans would cost about $130b annually

3. When you say 42m it was 44m in 2024 on ACA. Do you believe even people earning $500k a year should get subsidies?

4. My positions are based on annual budgets, not 10-yr scoring budgets.

5. Lets look at Biden's budgets and the BBB to compare.

View attachment 1174296...Biden's budget, note $1.83T deficit add to the debt


These details of the BBB are tough to follow, so see CBO projection below

One Big Beautiful Bill Act - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Revised CBO scoring shows a BBB $2.4T 10-year deficit, or $240b deficit annually, compared to Bidens $1.83T annual deficit

H.R. 1, One Big Beautiful Bill Act (Dynamic Estimate)

As passed by the House of Representatives on May 22, 2025

www.cbo.gov

So Republicans say they cut $1.5T off Biden's deficit, they mean annual budget, $1.83T - $1.5T = $0.33T which was about the first CBO score of $3.5T over 10-years. (0.33 is about 0.35)

So it looks to be a fluke of numbers that democrats want to add back $1.5T to the BBB. BUT.
I was talking $1.5T annually restoring ALL cuts in the BBB, basically getting back to Biden's budget and
you were talking about adding back the $150b subsidy but over 10-years getting the same $1.5T add

I'm fine adding back $130b annually just for the subsidy, means tested, but nothing else, no PBS, etc.

That was a lot to say that you are ok with the Democrats proposal.

The Trump budget cut $1.7T OVER 10 YEARS. Not annually. (You really have to get the annual and 10 year estimates sorted out.)

All those cuts came from SNAP, Medicaid, Education Loans, and raised defense spending.

The Trump budget spent way more on tax cuts than expense cuts too. All for the wealthy increasing our debt enormously.

 

[kyzr]

Thune can't change the rules.
It take a majority of votes in the Senate to change the rules.
WW

True. But no Republicans would vote to keep this stupid shutdown going.
Thune would probably get all 53 GOP votes to change the rule for CRs and appropriations bills.

 

[Nostra]

This is where republicans find math abhorant.

Even at 1,000 per day, every day. It would take 32 years to get to 12 million.

Thanks for pointing out what a clusterfuck the administration of your Vegetable Messiah was.

 

[Nostra]

This is where republicans find math abhorant.

Even at 1,000 per day, every day. It would take 32 years to get to 12 million.

New Milestone: Over 2 Million Illegal Aliens Out of the United States in Less Than 250 Days | Homeland Security

DHS announced that 2 million illegal aliens have been removed or have self-deported since January 20.

www.dhs.gov

 

[kyzr]

That was a lot to say that you are ok with the Democrats proposal.

To go from $900 a month back to $1,600 a month for a family of 4 would be impossible for most families, which means going uninsured. I agree with MTG on this. Even 75% of the subsidy if not 100%.

The Trump budget cut $1.7T OVER 10 YEARS. Not annually. (You really have to get the annual and 10 year estimates sorted out.)
All those cuts came from SNAP, Medicaid, Education Loans, and raised defense spending.

I showed you the math. From Biden's $1.83T annual deficit to the BBB's $240b annual deficit. The only difference in revenue looks to be tariffs, the rest are cuts.

The Trump budget spent way more on tax cuts than expense cuts too. All for the wealthy increasing our debt enormously.

Trump only added no tax on tips, OT, and SS. Otherwise the tax rates were unchanged, just extended. NOT ENORMOUSLY. Its all in the net $240b annual deficit CBO confirms. Compare that to Biden's $1.83T ENORMOUS annual deficit.
A balanced budget is possible, if...

$600b is saved by the Fed lowering rates 2%, $300b if only 1% is cut
$200b is saved by congress implementing the DOGE cuts
$300b in new revenue happens if GDP is 3% instead of the CBO's assumed 1.8%

 

[citygator]

To go from $900 a month back to $1,600 a month for a family of 4 would be impossible for most families, which means going uninsured. I agree with MTG on this. Even 75% of the subsidy if not 100%.

I showed you the math. From Biden's $1.83T annual deficit to the BBB's $240b annual deficit. The only difference in revenue looks to be tariffs, the rest are cuts.

Trump only added no tax on tips, OT, and SS. Otherwise the tax rates were unchanged, just extended. Its all in the net deficit s CBO confirms. A balanced budget is possible, if...

$600b is saved by the Fed lowering rates 2%, $300b if only 1% is cut
$200b is saved by congress implementing the DOGE cuts
$300b in new revenue happens if GDP is 3% instead of the CBO's assumed 1.8%

My friend, again youre conflating.

• The lower bill, the House version, is $2.4T in deficit added and $600B in additional interest. Its a total of $3T in added debt. The Senate is closer to $4T all in.
• Those numbers are not "instead of the old numbers" they are "on top of" the old numbers. Youre doing math wrong on that.

 

[Lesh]

My friend, again youre conflating.

• The lower bill, the House version, is $2.4T in deficit added and $600B in additional interest. Its a total of $3T in added debt. The Senate is closer to $4T all in.
• Those numbers are not "instead of the old numbers" they are "on top of" the old numbers. Youre doing math wrong on that.

View attachment 1174314

He’s an idiot who has no business talking about this

He clearly doesn’t know what he’s talking about

 

[kyzr]

My friend, again you're conflating.

• The lower bill, the House version, is $2.4T in deficit added and $600B in additional interest. Its a total of $3T in added debt. The Senate is closer to $4T all in.
• Those numbers are not "instead of the old numbers" they are "on top of" the old numbers. You're doing math wrong on that.

We can't agree on annual numbers. Those 10-year scores are bullshit because the budget changes every year.
This is how the 2021 annual budget looked. I can google most of the individual numbers for 2024, but it would be better if congress would tabulate them like this for 2025 and 2026. The AI generated numbers below are hit/miss.

2021 Federal Budget
Outlays $4.88T.....now $6.85T
Receipts $3.86T....now $6.61T
Deficit $1.02T....now $240b

Discretionary Spending
Defense $753b.....now $950b
Non-defense $733b.....now $1,800b
Total $1.49T.....now $2,750b

Mandatory Spending
Social Security $1,115b.....now $1,500b
Medicare 746b.....now $839b
Medicaid 452b.....now $900b
Other 660b
Interest on Debt 379b.....now $1,100b
Total $3.39T....now $4,100b