A question for women who aborted a child in their life.

Tipsycatlover

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There will never be a way to stop abortions by making them illegal. They were illegal and women had them anyway. There is no way to stop abortions by instilling in the parties an affection for one another sufficient to base a marriage. Men will not be forced to man up and women will not be forced to mother up to someone they are just not interested in. As someone once said, to really stop abortion it must be made unthinkable. Women have to stand up for themselves and not have them. Find another alternative. Stop taking chances. Stop the monthly gamble. Be diligent with birth control. End the silliness of having sex too soon with men you don't really like. For the truly desperate abortion will be there and at least be understandable.
You're right on the sex and responsibility part but wrong on abortion. Several here are calling me sick and perverted because I remind them just how terrible it is. They want to live with their heads in the sand and pretend to never know about babies chemically burned to death in the womb or ripped, limb from limb, feeling the pain of every step as they're tortured to death.

Abortionists and their supply chain of fetal body parts for sale, along with the producers and the consumers, all need to be aborted by the same processes they use to kill babies.
Oh they know. They say that an unborn child isn't human and doesn't feel pain. They do know better. Its murder by torture. And they are okay with that. These are people who put humanity in a little box and set it on a shelf. 200 years ago the same thing was said about slaves. The truth is those people were just fine torturing and killing slaves.

The fact is. Nothing is going to change their minds. We have politicians who think abortion should be legal up to five years old. You won't change their minds either.

Sometimes women are forced to carry, birth and raise the children of violent rape and it works out. Sometimes not getting that abortion destroys the lives of innocent people anyway.
 

Shelzin

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Do you remember when you were in the womb??
No... But it's possible to measure the difference between an active brain and the Medulla oblongata or brain stem in general.
Presently, the ability to think is NOT a legal requirement for personhood.

Please explain how you intend to reverse that legal reality.
I understand that you need government to feel that you are right. I don't. The government didn't give me my morals/ethics.

Argument from authority

Read that. Please. I don't care about the legality of it. It has no bearing on my stance.
 

Chuz Life

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Do you remember when you were in the womb??
No... But it's possible to measure the difference between an active brain and the Medulla oblongata or brain stem in general.
Presently, the ability to think is NOT a legal requirement for personhood.

Please explain how you intend to reverse that legal reality.
I understand that you need government to feel that you are right. I don't. The government didn't give me my morals/ethics.

Argument from authority

Read that. Please. I don't care about the legality of it. It has no bearing on my stance.
I don't have time to educate you on the fact that citing an authority in an argument about what that authority IS or SHOULD BE is not an argument FROM authority. Especially when the authority (Government) being discussed is trying to have it both ways and there are many references to be used by BOTH sides of the fucking debate.
 

Shelzin

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Do you remember when you were in the womb??
No... But it's possible to measure the difference between an active brain and the Medulla oblongata or brain stem in general.
Presently, the ability to think is NOT a legal requirement for personhood.

Please explain how you intend to reverse that legal reality.
I understand that you need government to feel that you are right. I don't. The government didn't give me my morals/ethics.

Argument from authority

Read that. Please. I don't care about the legality of it. It has no bearing on my stance.
I don't have time to educate you on the fact that citing an authority in an argument about what that authority IS or SHOULD BE is not an argument FROM authority. Especially when the authority (Government) being discussed is trying to have it both ways and there are many references to be used by BOTH sides of the fucking debate.
BOTH sides of the debate?

I don't know how you missed this... But I'm on the same side I'm always on... MINE. You should have noticed by now that I don't really agree with ANY OF YOU. I'm PRO-CHOICE up to 12 weeks... Then I don't think an abortion should happen.

And you are wrong... You are absolutely creating an ARGUMENT FROM AUTHORITY... Otherwise we could use ANY GOVERNMENTS constitution. NOT just your chosen.

If you have a problem with your chosen government having it both ways, it's not up to Me to argue for the government... I don't even agree with the government, don't put it's words in my mouth.

I DON'T SPEAK FOR ANYONE ELSE. I SPEAK FOR ME. THAT'S IT.
 

Chuz Life

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I don't know how you missed this... But I'm on the same side I'm always on... MINE. You should have noticed by now that I don't really agree with ANY OF YOU. I'm PRO-CHOICE up to 12 weeks... Then I don't think an abortion should happen.

And you are wrong... You are absolutely creating an ARGUMENT FROM AUTHORITY... Otherwise we could use ANY GOVERNMENTS constitution. NOT just your chosen.

If you have a problem with your chosen government having it both ways, it's not up to Me to argue for the government... I don't even agree with the government, don't put it's words in my mouth.

I DON'T SPEAK FOR ANYONE ELSE. I SPEAK FOR ME. THAT'S IT.
You can also speak only TO yourself.

I am not interested in un-realistic sidebar shit discussions that run contrary to REAL and BINDING things like legal precedence and legal definitions.

Welcome to my ignore list.
 

Shelzin

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Welcome to my ignore list.
Yeah... It's hard when you can't create the argument for the opposition isn't it?

On your ignore list is likely a healthy decision for you.
 

Chuz Life

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The other pro-lifers really wish you'd be quiet. Your blood lust is embarrassing them.
No pro-lifer wants me quiet. The only people who want me to shut up are the abortionists who don't want the truth discussed.
I don't call myself "pro-life" (I prefer anti-abortion) but your comment goes same for me too.
 

Dragonlady

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When you look at your living children in their eyes, do you ever think you terminated their brothers or sisters life? Does that ever appear in your mind?

Does your politics help you think through that issue?

I've never heard this in any abortion topic.

Those that aborted should have no problem in discussing this. Actually we need your point of view.
Abortion is, first and foremost, and economic issue in the USA. 80% of the women who have abortions, are poor or are living just above the poverty line:


No discussion of abortion can begin without that acknowledgement and an acknowledgement of who is having an abortion and why. Because Abortion statistics in the USA are much much higher than they are in the rest of the free world.

In much of the rest of the first world, women can get an abortion for free just by asking for it, yet American women get abortions at twice the rate of Canadian women. Canada has no abortion laws of any kind. Abortion is a medical matter between a woman and her doctor, and it is funded by our single payer health care, which means no co-pays or extra billing. Canadian women get abortions at half the rate of American women.

Canadian women have mandated paid maternity leave of one year funded by unemployement insurance of 55% of salary up to $540 per week. Pregnant women cannot be fired, and their employers have to guarantee them the same job when they get back to work. They have government funded health insurance with no copays. If your family income is less than $35,000 per year, you can get $500 per month per child tax benefit, free drugs, glasses and dental for your children, and a lot of other government assistance for your family. As your income rises, your assistance declines, and when family income reaches $75,000 net income per year, it ends. Our abortion rate is half of yours.

I have never had an abortion, and most of my friend who have, have said they would never have another one, but that they would make the same decision again today, because it was the right decision at the time. No one, I repeat no one I know who has had an abortion, has ever said I wished I had not done it. They have said that they wished they hadn't had to do it, but they wouldn't change a thing.

Men think that women are having abortions carelessly, heartlesslessly and without thought of the consequences. It's written all over your post. It's accusatory, and shaming. Every woman I know who has had the abortion has thought about nothing else for weeks before she made the decision. Their stories are those of poverty, abuse, substance abuse by their partners, leading to physical abuse, except one.

The one exception was a very well to do woman whose first choice in men was always somebody else's husband. She used abortion as a form of birth control, and had her first abortion when she was 13. I knew of at least 5 abortions, but she also was married and lived in Japan when birth control was illegal and abortion was not, so I don't know how many she had in those 5 years. She was very conservative and actually tried to shame me for marching in a pro-choice march. She opposed abortion for others, not herself. I personally think it's a good thing she never had a baby. I don't think she would have been a good mother.
 

Dragonlady

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When you look at your living children in their eyes, do you ever think you terminated their brothers or sisters life? Does that ever appear in your mind?

Does your politics help you think through that issue?

I've never heard this in any abortion topic.

Those that aborted should have no problem in discussing this. Actually we need your point of view.
What if that abortion was the result of a rape or incest? Seems to change the discussion, now doesn't it?
It doesn't change the fact that it was just as much their own child, as any other method of conception...
You do realize that if they were to have the child, the rapist father would have rights to visitations, and to be a part of her life forever, do you not? Imagine look at your child's face and seeing his father. It's hard enough to raise a child to be happy and healthy, both physically and emotionally, without starting out with two strikes against you.

I know of children who learned they were the product of rape even without the father involved. They felt shame every day of their lives. They were miserable and felt they had ruined their mother's life. One ended up on drugs, all were severly affected by this fact, and not in a good way. And somebody in the family always let it slip out, what had happened. It wasn't necessarily their mother's who told them. Years of therapy were needed
 

Levant

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When you look at your living children in their eyes, do you ever think you terminated their brothers or sisters life? Does that ever appear in your mind?

Does your politics help you think through that issue?

I've never heard this in any abortion topic.

Those that aborted should have no problem in discussing this. Actually we need your point of view.
What if that abortion was the result of a rape or incest? Seems to change the discussion, now doesn't it?
It doesn't change the fact that it was just as much their own child, as any other method of conception...
You do realize that if they were to have the child, the rapist father would have rights to visitations, and to be a part of her life forever, do you not? Imagine look at your child's face and seeing his father. It's hard enough to raise a child to be happy and healthy, both physically and emotionally, without starting out with two strikes against you.

I know of children who learned they were the product of rape even without the father involved. They felt shame every day of their lives. They were miserable and felt they had ruined their mother's life. One ended up on drugs, all were severly affected by this fact, and not in a good way. And somebody in the family always let it slip out, what had happened. It wasn't necessarily their mother's who told them. Years of therapy were needed
Amazing. You're suggesting better to kill a child than for them to need therapy. The mother could put the child up for adoption - that way the child would never know.

Or the mother could make it clear to the child that the mother didn't like how she was conceived but that she loved the child from the moment of conception. I'm not a psychologist or psychiatrist so I don't know if that's enough but it's a start. Or, by your standards, just kill the kid.
 

Shelzin

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Amazing. You're suggesting better to kill a child than for them to need therapy. The mother could put the child up for adoption - that way the child would never know.

Or the mother could make it clear to the child that the mother didn't like how she was conceived but that she loved the child from the moment of conception. I'm not a psychologist or psychiatrist so I don't know if that's enough but it's a start. Or, by your standards, just kill the kid.
I'm trying to help you out here... I really am.

But you aren't going to change anyone's mind until you can convince them that they are actually killing a kid. I don't think you'll find anyone here that is on board with killing an actual child.

Until ya'll define that... It's just a waste of time. Which.. Hey, it's your time. I said my piece on it.
 

Levant

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But you aren't going to change anyone's mind until you can convince them that they are actually killing a kid. I don't think you'll find anyone here that is on board with killing an actual child.
Most of the pro-abortionists here have said things like, they wouldn't abort their child - and use words like child; they don't say they'd never abort their lump of cells or their zygote. Why is that? Why is theirs' a child or a baby and the anonymous one is a mass of cells?

Most of the pro-abortionists here have said things like, they don't believe in late term abortion. Why is that? Although they claim to support those 6700 mothers a year, in the US alone, who choose to kill their babies late in the pregnancy, even after the baby's brains are functioning and they feel the pain as they are chemically dissolved in the womb or their limbs pulled one at a time from their withering bodies, those who say they support those mothers' right to choose say they would never do it themselves. Well, if it's nothing more than a mass of cells or a zygote then why wouldn't they do it themselves?

Most of the pro-abortionists here say they would not let their child be literally born, head outside the vagina and in the room with the doctor, and have their baby's head snipped off with scissors. Why wouldn't they have that done if it's just a mass of cells or a zygote?

What's the common answer to all these questions? You, and the others here, already know it's killing a child. An actual child. You've listened to the eugenicists and their supporters from CNN, MSNBC, and virtually everyone else on TV, and have learned to be afraid to say what they think for fear of social retribution. You hide behind the "pro-choice" euphemism and hide from the evidence of just how evil Planned Parenthood and their agenda are.

For me to succeed, I needn't teach them what they already know. I need to open their eyes to the evil that they've allowed in order to appear centrist or open-minded. I need to get them to search their souls and get them to take a stand for what they keep saying here is right for them but defending it for others.

I won't convince them all because some are every bit as evil as Margaret Sanger. But if just one considers they hypocrisy in their own arguments and admits to themselves that abortion kills beautiful souls and, because of that, one baby does not get killed in the womb, then I'll be happy - but I won't stop.
 

Shelzin

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What's the common answer to all these questions? You, and the others here, already know it's killing a child. An actual child.
*shrugs* I've explained myself. I'm trying to help you to convince others by showing you what you need to do. It sure is easier to call names and and try to shame people. I don't think you're doing this to stop anything. I think you are stroking your ego, or perhaps trying to win some points with God.

Don't get me wrong... I'm good with that... You do you. But the definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results.

People listen to people who listen to them. You keep telling them what they think after they explain their stance to you... *shrugs*

You do you.
 

Levant

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I know of children who learned they were the product of rape even without the father involved. They felt shame every day of their lives. They were miserable and felt they had ruined their mother's life. One ended up on drugs, all were severly affected by this fact, and not in a good way. And somebody in the family always let it slip out, what had happened. It wasn't necessarily their mother's who told them. Years of therapy were needed
Another interesting point: you're saying that a child is psychologically damaged by knowing they weren't conceived in love and loved by two parents from the moment of conception or at least the moment that they know about the conception?

Because, really, the rape mother should have just told her kid he or she was just a zygote; a mass of cells, so what the hell difference does it make? Tell him or her to quit their damn whining and fairy-tail fantasies about loving, committed, responsible, adults creating a life because they want to share their love.... Or we could just kill all the little bastages that weren't conceived in the fairy-tail loving environment and save the kid and ourselves the hassle.
 

playtime

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^^^ I am well aware of other people having different beliefs compared to the ones that I have gone with. You do realize that there is more to the Lord's word than just want is in the old testament, right?

God bless you always!!!

Holly
of course. but how does that matter? you didn't really answer, now did you?

who gets to say 'never mind' to the OT, when it's supposedly written about god? who gets to decide which parts are valid & which parts aren't ? or impose any/all of it on those that don't believe what you believe?

this is a secular nation where no one religion is state sanctioned; therefore you live your life according to your bible, should you choose & you are allowed to pick & choose what's in there... but not force that belief on anybody else.
I never once said that the old Testament is to be disregarded especially when that happens to be where the ten commandments are, one of them being about killing which is what category abortion will always fall into no matter how you people try to justify it.

God bless you always!!!

Holly
would you vote to make it legal to shackle a woman to force her to give birth?

& did you vote for trump?
If abortion was already illegal like it should be, you wouldn't have to ask such a question now would you? Yes, I voted for our current leader.

God bless you and him always!!!

Holly
you didn't answer the question.

again.

would you like to see women in shackles to prevent them from having one?

i'll also extend that question & apply it: to punishing her, should she seek an 'illegal' abortion as well. yes or no ?

i see you that you voted for a fornicator,
& who committed adultery,
& has coveted his neighbor's goods,
& has coveted his neighbor's wife,
& has stolen
& has not honored his mother & father

i see the picking & choosing is in full force.

& he has lusted
& is a glutton
& is greedy
& is a lazy sloth
& has shown what his 'wrath' can do
& he's envious
& he has too much destructive 'pride'.

lol... god bless you too!
You do realize that a person who does what needs to be done where one situation is concerned is going to be unfortunately flawed somewhere else, right? Sadly no one on this planet is perfect.

God bless you and our current leader always!!!

Holly

P.S. If being shackled is what it takes for the delivery to happen, oh well. To me, the only reason why an abortion should happen is if the pregnancy/delivery will bring an end to the life of the mother, especially if the well being of other people, like other kids for example, depends on the well being of the mother.
My wife was told with the last two of our children that she and the baby would die if she carried them to term. She chose to risk her life for her children and it paid off.
That just goes to show that a doctor's brain train can only travel so far.

God bless you and your family always!!!

Holly

^^^ For the record, I am not on any kind of medicine except for the two Advil dots that I took this morning for my period cramps.

God bless you always!!!

Holly
perhaps you need to look into taking some anti cray cray meds.
Only a person with their own experience would be able to spot another person who has any. My only question is how much a day do you swallow?

God bless you always!!!

Holly
i have experience working directly with people who aren't all there in the head.

the second you said 'oh well' to the idea of imprisoning a woman & forcing her to go thru a pregnancy & childbirth ... to fit yer ideology - is all it took to know you're nuts. just like the poor souls i took care of.
 
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playtime

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A question for Republicans who say let their grandparents die:

oh never mind, I don’t want to hear from those awful people.
Really? Republicans? No; that's Democrats. Cuomo killed thousands of elderly in New York. Intentionally. He planned it years ago when he chose not to purchase ventilators and, instead, said to plan how to prioritize the use of what they already had in a pandemic. The left has always been about death panels. No Republican has ever supported letting their grandparents die.

You've all given up on defending abortion - because you know you can't, and now you're just throwing red herrings around like confetti.
False on all counts.
Men have rights, unborn have rights, political parties have rights, and women are supposed to cater to them. If you had a clue how liberating abortion is, how it gave women, millions of them, a new lease on life, how it enabled them to sure up their finances, and keep the ground they gained in the workforce, (which is the real problem), you wouldn't be so harsh on abortion. Women are trying to this world a favor by not bringing millions of children, (who are tax dependent) into the world. She is trying to hold on to what she has worked for. She is thinking about herself and no one else and that is truly the problem. You can't use abortion to get ahead and stay ahead of men in the workforce, so say the highly moral men and women in America.
And you sound like you want the Handmaid's tale to come to fruition.
certainly ' oh well ' josweetheart. does
 
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playtime

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most abortions are performed in the first trimester. millions every year ... so your stat of 6700 for late term is the lowest & is not the 'norm' by any stretch.
Are you kidding me? That's all you have to say about 6700 babies tortured to death in the United States, every year? Really? It's ok because it's not the norm? Just how sick in the head are you?

I shouldn't be but I can't help but be stunned anyway that a woman, a mother, thinks that it's OK to brutally torture 6700 babies to death every year.
nope - not what i said at all. but i did use the same reasoning you did - several posts ago when another posted said that some women choose to terminate because of rape & you claimed that was such a small number, that it shouldn't justify roe v wade being legal.

the number of late term abortions - are mostly due to extreme circumstances...

& not out of 'convenience' like you lied about over & over again. you need to exaggerate & lie & put words in my mouth that i never said - & may not even feel - just to justify yer stance for zero tolerance.
 
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playtime

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Why never again? A coat hanger can't possibly be worse for the baby. And I don't give a shit if mothers die in the act of murdering their children. I wish, instead, they wouldn't murder their children but there's a price to pay for such behavior. If they don't want to risk it, don't stick a coat hanger up their uterus. And if they don't want to get pregnant, don't have sex.
^^^ you couldn't have proven that you are only pro birth & NOT pro life any better than that.
 

playtime

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I have a great solution and I already posted it. Women, keep your legs closed.
So you're just another sad pervy control freak, obsessing over whether women are having sex in a manner you approve of.

That's not normal. You're sick in the head. Someone should have broken that news to you before. Why is it always up to me to stage these interventions?

A woman's body does not belong to you, your church, or your precious, precious big authoritarian state.

Deal with it, perv.
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