A question for the pro-abortion aka pro-choice crowd

[Lonestar_logic]

"Convenient"? For a 12 year old girl who has been gang-raped by her brother and a few of his friends? You're going to sentence her to carrying a daily reminder of that trauma, every day for almost 10% of her current life? How compassionate.
And you're going to personally take care of the child after it's born? Didn't think so. People who will shoulder no responsibility find it easy to talk about how others should.

Yes I would want for her to carry the baby to full term. The trauma she suffers will be there long after the babry is born, aborting the child will not make the events she's suffered any less traumatic. But if you wish to think the taking of an innocent life would magically make her horrible experience less traumatic then go ahead and believe as you wish.

Like I said. So easy for those who won't have to go through, to say others should. And so easy to say other should sholder the responsibility afterward, that you yourself won't take from them. Of course, you'll complain about the welfare later though....

You have no idea what life experiences I have or have not lived through. The fact is murdering an unborn child is not going to make anyone suffer any less. But please tell me how you think it would?

 

[koshergrl]

What the hell does spontaneous abortion have to do with getting an abortion?

 

[Lonestar_logic]

Your thread title calls for responses from pro-choice posters... That's political.






As for no mention of pregnancy...? Nice selective denial you got there...

"her abdomen will swell and her womb will miscarry"

Pro-choice people are a political group?

Fact is that passage does not mention pregnancy. But don't let the facts get in your way.

Okay. Name one physical instance outside of pregnancy where a MISCARRYING WOMB can happen.

You're not understanding the passage at all.

1 And the LORD spake unto Moses, saying,

2 Command the children of Israel, that they put out of the camp every leper, and every one that hath an issue, and whosoever is defiled by the dead:

3 Both male and female shall ye put out, without the camp shall ye put them; that they defile not their camps, in the midst whereof I dwell.

4 And the children of Israel did so, and put them out without the camp: as the LORD spake unto Moses, so did the children of Israel.

5 And the LORD spake unto Moses, saying,

6 Speak unto the children of Israel, When a man or woman shall commit any sin that men commit, to do a trespass against the LORD, and that person be guilty;

7 Then they shall confess their sin which they have done: and he shall recompense his trespass with the principal thereof, and add unto it the fifth part thereof, and give it unto him against whom he hath trespassed.

8 But if the man have no kinsman to recompense the trespass unto, let the trespass be recompensed unto the LORD, even to the priest; beside the ram of the atonement, whereby an atonement shall be made for him.

9 And every offering of all the holy things of the children of Israel, which they bring unto the priest, shall be his.

10 And every man's hallowed things shall be his: whatsoever any man giveth the priest, it shall be his.

11 And the LORD spake unto Moses, saying,

12 Speak unto the children of Israel, and say unto them, If any man's wife go aside, and commit a trespass against him,

13 And a man lie with her carnally, and it be hid from the eyes of her husband, and be kept close, and she be defiled, and there be no witness against her, neither she be taken with the manner;

14 And the spirit of jealousy come upon him, and he be jealous of his wife, and she be defiled: or if the spirit of jealousy come upon him, and he be jealous of his wife, and she be not defiled:

15 Then shall the man bring his wife unto the priest, and he shall bring her offering for her, the tenth part of an ephah of barley meal; he shall pour no oil upon it, nor put frankincense thereon; for it is an offering of jealousy, an offering of memorial, bringing iniquity to remembrance.

16 And the priest shall bring her near, and set her before the LORD:

17 And the priest shall take holy water in an earthen vessel; and of the dust that is in the floor of the tabernacle the priest shall take, and put it into the water:

18 And the priest shall set the woman before the LORD, and uncover the woman's head, and put the offering of memorial in her hands, which is the jealousy offering: and the priest shall have in his hand the bitter water that causeth the curse:

19 And the priest shall charge her by an oath, and say unto the woman, If no man have lain with thee, and if thou hast not gone aside to uncleanness with another instead of thy husband, be thou free from this bitter water that causeth the curse:

20 But if thou hast gone aside to another instead of thy husband, and if thou be defiled, and some man have lain with thee beside thine husband:

21 Then the priest shall charge the woman with an oath of cursing, and the priest shall say unto the woman, The LORD make thee a curse and an oath among thy people, when the LORD doth make thy thigh to rot, and thy belly to swell;

22 And this water that causeth the curse shall go into thy bowels, to make thy belly to swell, and thy thigh to rot: And the woman shall say, Amen, amen.

23 And the priest shall write these curses in a book, and he shall blot them out with the bitter water:

24 And he shall cause the woman to drink the bitter water that causeth the curse: and the water that causeth the curse shall enter into her, and become bitter.

25 Then the priest shall take the jealousy offering out of the woman's hand, and shall wave the offering before the LORD, and offer it upon the altar:

26 And the priest shall take an handful of the offering, even the memorial thereof, and burn it upon the altar, and afterward shall cause the woman to drink the water.

27 And when he hath made her to drink the water, then it shall come to pass, that, if she be defiled, and have done trespass against her husband, that the water that causeth the curse shall enter into her, and become bitter, and her belly shall swell, and her thigh shall rot: and the woman shall be a curse among her people.

28 And if the woman be not defiled, but be clean; then she shall be free, and shall conceive seed.

29 This is the law of jealousies, when a wife goeth aside to another instead of her husband, and is defiled;

30 Or when the spirit of jealousy cometh upon him, and he be jealous over his wife, and shall set the woman before the LORD, and the priest shall execute upon her all this law.

31 Then shall the man be guiltless from iniquity, and this woman shall bear her iniquity.

 

[koshergrl]

Since people mistakenly think there's some sort of magic cut-off date after which abortion clinics will not provide you with the option to kill your unborn child:

"
"Partial-Birth" Abortion[FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman][FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman]: 16 states have laws in effect that prohibit "partial-birth" abortion. 3 of these laws apply only to postviability abortions."[/FONT][/FONT]

[FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman][FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman]Only 16 states prohibit partial birth. Do you know what that means? It means that although the clinics do lip service to this or that getstational age, in reality, they are not obligated to adhere to it, and they don't.[/FONT][/FONT]

[FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman][FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman]And since they don't provide records of the types of abortions they perform, there's no way to double check.[/FONT][/FONT]

[FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman][FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman]Getting a picture? You should be.[/FONT][/FONT]


Look at the chart which of course I can't copy and paste since it's not something PP wants out, and look at how many states list "viability" as the end date.

Also note that the quanitifier is "if health or life is endangered". Childbirth puts a woman's life at risk, so this is essentially a quantifier that allows that all women can obtain the service up to viability. And viability is a very flexible term.

[FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman][FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman]http://www.guttmacher.org/statecenter/spibs/spib_OAL.pdf[/FONT]
[/FONT]

 

[BDBoop]

Don't quote it at me. Explain to me how causing a "womb to miscarry" does not refer to pregnancy.

 

[jillian]

so walt bumped another dead thread... that's nice. i love necromancers...

as for "voting" on when life begins... you can't overturn a supreme court decision by a vote of the populace. that is the POINT of being protected by a constitution.

 

[LaterTrader]

Since people mistakenly think there's some sort of magic cut-off date after which abortion clinics will not provide you with the option to kill your unborn child:

"
"Partial-Birth" Abortion[FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman][FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman]: 16 states have laws in effect that prohibit "partial-birth" abortion. 3 of these laws apply only to postviability abortions."[/FONT][/FONT]

[FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman][FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman]Only 16 states prohibit partial birth. Do you know what that means? It means that although the clinics do lip service to this or that getstational age, in reality, they are not obligated to adhere to it, and they don't.[/FONT][/FONT]

[FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman][FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman]And since they don't provide records of the types of abortions they perform, there's no way to double check.[/FONT][/FONT]

[FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman][FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman]Getting a picture? You should be.[/FONT][/FONT]


Look at the chart which of course I can't copy and paste since it's not something PP wants out, and look at how many states list "viability" as the end date.

Also note that the quanitifier is "if health or life is endangered". Childbirth puts a woman's life at risk, so this is essentially a quantifier that allows that all women can obtain the service up to viability. And viability is a very flexible term.

[FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman][FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman]http://www.guttmacher.org/statecenter/spibs/spib_OAL.pdf[/FONT]
[/FONT]

Of course, you NEVER reveal the true picture. Anti abortion advocates NEVER tell you that the partial birth abortions are done, 49% of the time TO SAVE THE LIFE OF THE MOTHER!

Partial birth abortions amount to less that 2% of all abortions, and less than 40% of all "medically necessary abortions"...(performed to save the physical life of the mother).
Less than 1% of all abortions are partial birth, and (51% of less than 2%) are due to a fetus which is so malformed, so unable to live independently ex-utero that that realistically the fetus has no chance of survival, and those abortions are done to save the mother several weeks, or months of suffering. That's what "partial birth" abortions are about... not healthy babies terminated, not willing mothers, just horrible events, where this is the best option to save all parties from further suffering.

Please, try to do some actual research, partial birth abortions, less than 2% of all abortions, half of those for the health of the mother. The rest, horribly deformed fetuses not viable outside the womb. Get your facts, PLEASE!

 

[koshergrl]

Horseshit. I provided the stats and the information, and the link.

You're provided crap. Thanks for playing.

48 percent, that's a great number, did you obtain it from the toilet?

 

[koshergrl]

And you won't find any better research than that done by Guttmacher, which is PP's right hand man and the only stats there are to work with.

If you don't like their information, take it up with PP.

 

[LaterTrader]

Horseshit.

Your fantasized picture in your avatar? What exactly is "horseshit"?

Please, don't bother posting if you cannot reference the proper horseshit!

 

[koshergrl]

As I said, no better way to accumulate a collection of ignorant yahoos than post a thread directed at pro-abortion loons.

What exactly is your problem with the Guttmacher stats? I'm all ears. And please post your stats that show 48 percent of all partial birth abortions are performed to save the mother. That's a good one, and one I haven't heard before.

How does it feel to be on the side of butchers?

 

[LaterTrader]

Horseshit. I provided the stats and the information, and the link.

You're provided crap. Thanks for playing.

48 percent, that's a great number, did you obtain it from the toilet?

You want links? Provide some yourself. I have 100's of links, I do research in this area. When can you stop by and first learn how to do 49% of 2% as an actual math problem?

 

[koshergrl]

Incidentally, after 21 weeks, abortion is every bit as dangerous to the mother as birth. That's on the Guttmacher site too.

 

[koshergrl]

Horseshit. I provided the stats and the information, and the link.

You're provided crap. Thanks for playing.

48 percent, that's a great number, did you obtain it from the toilet?

You want links? Provide some yourself. I have 100's of links, I do research in this area. When can you stop by and first learn how to do 49% of 2% as an actual math problem?

I provided a link, you spaz.

You have provided none. So you're a spaz, and a liar. A winning combo!

 

[LaterTrader]

I provided a link, you spaz.

You have provided none. So you're a spaz, and a liar. A winning combo!

Your link has no raw data. You insult posters like me who have dedicated years of my life to looking at public health issues, and you call me "spaz"?

You are, obviously, incapable of doing any reseanch, nor linking to any real data, you have fallen into the trap of being white, middle class, and able to insult or judge anyone who disagrees with you, or, heaven forbid, calls your base and scum tactics of insults and no real rationality into question.

Carry on.. I know how to make sure I never have to read your mindless, irrational, uneducated, and simply insulting posts again, thanks for wasting my time for 20 minutes, I don't often fall for stupidity, but I must admit, your fantasy body was the only inspriration to answer any of your mindless posts. Better luck with the next sucker who likes an attractive cartoon of a woman's body, I'm sure you are 50, go to church weekly and weight over 200 pounds at 5foot 4 and have probably dropped 10 children into our welfare system I pay for.

 

[LaterTrader]

Incidentally, after 21 weeks, abortion is every bit as dangerous to the mother as birth. That's on the Guttmacher site too.

NO, try to find medical science from beyond the 1950's 99% of all mothers survive abortion procedures in the USA, 99.8% in Europe. And we are talking third trimester abortions for medically neccessary reasons. No mother who aborts at 14 weeks dies in the USA, unless otherwise medically compromised. Check MMRA, abortions......Google it, silly.

 

[koshergrl]

You idiot, do you know what Guttmacher's is?

 

[koshergrl]

"
• The risk of death associated with abortion increases with the length of pregnancy, from one death for every one million abortions at or before eight weeks to one per 29,000 at 16–20 weeks—and one per 11,000 at 21 or more weeks.[14] "

From: "Facts on Induced Abortion in the United States
August 2011"

Facts on Induced Abortion in the United States

 

[C_Clayton_Jones]

as for "voting" on when life begins... you can't overturn a supreme court decision by a vote of the populace. that is the POINT of being protected by a constitution.

Correct.

This is of course one of the problematic aspects of the ‘abortion debate,’ ignorance of the rule of law and the general legal process.

Since people mistakenly think there's some sort of magic cut-off date after which abortion clinics will not provide you with the option to kill your unborn child:

From a political standpoint, this is one of the more significant aspects of conservative inconsistency, the advocacy of the state interfering in one’s right to privacy.

We also never hear conservatives back up their opposition to privacy rights with the mechanics of how exactly doctors will be prohibited from providing abortion services to their patients. Are conservatives actually prepared to put doctors and women with unwanted pregnancies in jail? That’s truly an Orwellian motif.

Certainly conservatives aren’t so naïve as to believe that the mere prohibition of abortion will be a sufficient deterrent and no one would dare violate the law.

And if conservatives are going to at least be consistent in their inconsistency, they must understand that in order for their argument to be valid, there may be no exceptions made in cases of rape, incest, and where the mother’s life is threatened.

 

[koshergrl]

Conservatives have never viewed the prevention of murder or other crime as "government interference".

Of course the left does.