A question for the pro-abortion aka pro-choice crowd

[logical4u]

not at all

The people of Sodom were judged because of their immorality. Homosexual acts are immoral sex. The two are linked.

actually scholars have concluded that the interpretation was wrong.
They were judge for being evil and wicked, or disobaying God, as we many people in the Bible.

Do homosexuals that "act" on their homosexuality, disobey the Lord?

 

[logical4u]

Kosher there are plenty of contradictions in the bible. A person does not need the bible to tell them to believe in God.

You are correct: in the New Covenant (with Yeshua), there will be no need for religious instruction. The Lord will be written onto men's hearts.

So all of us are aware of a spirituality. If you want to know that Lord better, you pray before you read the Bible for understanding. You read the Bible, and get a sense of how amazing the Lord really is. If you go back and read the Bible years after you first read it, and again pray; it will have a totally new meaning for you.

 

[logical4u]

I can not beileve teen age girls still get pregnant in the numbers they do. Birth control is laying around on almost every street coner in the US. We should be teaching young men and women about responsibilty for their own actions not making it easier for them to get abortions.

So I would say that yes abortion is a convience for most women who have them. And yes I oppose abortion but have no problem giving out bithcontrol to teenagers.

As soon as you start talking personal responsibility, some lefty wacko declares you are trying to bring religion into the classroom. The people that care are silenced, while the people that don't care and promote abortion run around, sue happy for anyone that disagrees with them.

You're a pro-lifer, isn't it your personal responsibility to adopt a child that a young girl decided to have instead of have an abortion when she couldn't take care of the child?


Or have you not done that and you only type on message boards how you're holier than thou?

I am not holier than anyone. I want mothers to know that they are being deceived. If a child is growing inside your womb, and you end that life, you murdered your own child. The people that assisted in the murder will tell you that your baby was not really alive, not really a baby. They are deceivers.
At some point that woman will accept the truth, usually when the murder has already taken place, and she will need to grieve. She will need to find forgiveness for herself for she has done the unthinkable; she murdered her child. The people that encouraged her and assisted her have no sympathy, no mercy. They are on to murdering the next child, available.

So tell me, you are pro-abortion; do you go to China and assist them with forced abortions?

 

[logical4u]

Here's what gets me about this issue...and those of you on the "right" are complete hypocrites.

Why not attack this problem at the beginning? Preventing unwanted pregnancy? Isn't that the idea?

It's a bit late to whine and complain after the pregnancy, isn't it?

Ask yourselves why not long ago every single republican voted against a bill which would've increased sex education in schools? Wouldn't that help decrease unwanted pregnacy, and thus the need for abortions? Republicans have consistently voted against all programs designed to prevent pregnancy.

The self-righteous hypocritical republicans remind me of the man cleaning up all the spilled water on his kitchen floor, and telling everyone what a great job he's doing...while ignoring the broken water pipe under the sink!

Want less abortions? Help prevent unwanted pregnancy!

Not long ago republicans controlled the House, Senate, White House and appointed 7 of the last 9 Supreme court justices...and they didn't do a damned thing about ending abortion.

They just use it as a campaign tool to rally the far right fringe of their base, and then all but forget the issue once elected.

That's hypocrisy in my book!

Only one form of birth control is "perfect". It is called abstinence. The politicians and their constituents that want to legislate immorality refuse to accept abstinence is a proven method. You want to pretend that "sex education" without morals will reduce the number of teenage pregnancies, when the opposite is true. But the far lefties don't see their own hypocrisy. They are too busy embracing corruption.

 

[koshergrl]

Problem with abortion. It's too easily done. People are using it as a means of contraception. My opinion, it's murder. If you left the baby alone, it will grow into a person with thoughts, feelings. By executing that person before he/she has even had a breath of air. It's not right.

Now, however...I accept, that in some extreme circumstances, eg a rape victim (although I still feel the child is an innocent) or for example a sick **** father that rapes his daughter of 13 and she falls pregnant. In those circumstances, abortion is more acceptable.

However, we should not base our laws around these extreme circumstances. Abortion should not be readily available.

But wouldn't abortion still be murder according to you in the cases of rape and incest? If you accept abortion in the cases of rape and incest, you are essentially condoning the murder of the child for the sins of the parents. Just playing some devil's advocate.

It is not necessarily the case that the fetus/embryo will grow into a person with thoughts and feelings if left alone. In fact, by best estimates about half of all fertilized eggs are miscarried naturally, most of the time before the woman even knows she's pregnant. In cases when the woman knows she's pregnant, the miscarriage rate is estimated to be between 15% and 25% (I googled these stats, multiple websites supported them). So there certainly is no guarantee that all aborted fetuses would have become fully functioning human beings, and it is likely that a decent percentage would have been miscarried naturally. In fact, if you truly believe that every fertilized egg is a human being, the destruction of which is murder, then you must think that the natural miscarriage rate of around 50% is the greatest tragedy in human history.

I'm not arguing that abortion is right, but I do believe that it must be legal in order to minimize human suffering overall. While making abortion illegal would probably lower the abortion rate somewhat, I think the cost of human life in the form of botched illegal abortions would heavily outweigh the "benefits" of making abortion illegal across the board. I think we have a pretty good, thoughtful middle ground established in most states when it comes to abortion laws.

There's no evidence that legalized abortion alleviates any suffering, in fact, quite the opposite. And again, you're pretending that without legalized abortion, there will be hordes of babies born as a result of rape and incest. Not so. Legalized abortion has never been required to deal with such situations (provided the mother reports the incident. If she doesn't, and seeks abortion later, she is seeking to protect the perp, which again is one of the primary functions of legalized abortion).

And people STILL DIE from botched abortions. Have you checked the numbers you're talking about? I think there were 30 deaths or so the last year before abortion was legalized. The pro-abortionists like to pretend that death was common, widespread, and in huge numbers. It wasn't. They also like to pretend that all women who get abortions legally now would still get abortions illegally and at risk to their own lives (more risk, anyway) if it was illegal. Also not true. Essentially, they pretend that all those who seek abortions are stupid, and criminal, at heart, and will ignore any law in order to kill the babies they carry.

It's a fantasy held by the left, a complete and total fabrication based on their disdain of the people they expect and encourage to kill their babies.

 

[koshergrl]

As soon as you start talking personal responsibility, some lefty wacko declares you are trying to bring religion into the classroom. The people that care are silenced, while the people that don't care and promote abortion run around, sue happy for anyone that disagrees with them.

You're a pro-lifer, isn't it your personal responsibility to adopt a child that a young girl decided to have instead of have an abortion when she couldn't take care of the child?


Or have you not done that and you only type on message boards how you're holier than thou?

I am not holier than anyone. I want mothers to know that they are being deceived. If a child is growing inside your womb, and you end that life, you murdered your own child. The people that assisted in the murder will tell you that your baby was not really alive, not really a baby. They are deceivers.
At some point that woman will accept the truth, usually when the murder has already taken place, and she will need to grieve. She will need to find forgiveness for herself for she has done the unthinkable; she murdered her child. The people that encouraged her and assisted her have no sympathy, no mercy. They are on to murdering the next child, available.

So tell me, you are pro-abortion; do you go to China and assist them with forced abortions?

Or give rides to the young prostitutes whose pimps force them to get abortions?

Or have a beer with the dads who impregnate their daughters then send them to the clinic to hide the evidence?

 

[Gadawg73]

Here's what gets me about this issue...and those of you on the "right" are complete hypocrites.

Why not attack this problem at the beginning? Preventing unwanted pregnancy? Isn't that the idea?

It's a bit late to whine and complain after the pregnancy, isn't it?

Ask yourselves why not long ago every single republican voted against a bill which would've increased sex education in schools? Wouldn't that help decrease unwanted pregnacy, and thus the need for abortions? Republicans have consistently voted against all programs designed to prevent pregnancy.

The self-righteous hypocritical republicans remind me of the man cleaning up all the spilled water on his kitchen floor, and telling everyone what a great job he's doing...while ignoring the broken water pipe under the sink!

Want less abortions? Help prevent unwanted pregnancy!

Not long ago republicans controlled the House, Senate, White House and appointed 7 of the last 9 Supreme court justices...and they didn't do a damned thing about ending abortion.

They just use it as a campaign tool to rally the far right fringe of their base, and then all but forget the issue once elected.

That's hypocrisy in my book!

Only one form of birth control is "perfect". It is called abstinence. The politicians and their constituents that want to legislate immorality refuse to accept abstinence is a proven method. You want to pretend that "sex education" without morals will reduce the number of teenage pregnancies, when the opposite is true. But the far lefties don't see their own hypocrisy. They are too busy embracing corruption.

Name one person or politician that lobbies to legislate immorality.
You claim to be anti abortion yet oppose education to prevent pregnancy.
When I was growing up in the late 50s to the late 60s there was NO sex education in the schools and teen pregnancy was high as hell then.
Teen pregnancy is going down now. Down 37% in the last 20 years.

Your argument is not based on logic or fact to back it up.

 

[koshergrl]

Here's what gets me about this issue...and those of you on the "right" are complete hypocrites.

Why not attack this problem at the beginning? Preventing unwanted pregnancy? Isn't that the idea?

It's a bit late to whine and complain after the pregnancy, isn't it?

Ask yourselves why not long ago every single republican voted against a bill which would've increased sex education in schools? Wouldn't that help decrease unwanted pregnacy, and thus the need for abortions? Republicans have consistently voted against all programs designed to prevent pregnancy.

The self-righteous hypocritical republicans remind me of the man cleaning up all the spilled water on his kitchen floor, and telling everyone what a great job he's doing...while ignoring the broken water pipe under the sink!

Want less abortions? Help prevent unwanted pregnancy!

Not long ago republicans controlled the House, Senate, White House and appointed 7 of the last 9 Supreme court justices...and they didn't do a damned thing about ending abortion.

They just use it as a campaign tool to rally the far right fringe of their base, and then all but forget the issue once elected.

That's hypocrisy in my book!

Only one form of birth control is "perfect". It is called abstinence. The politicians and their constituents that want to legislate immorality refuse to accept abstinence is a proven method. You want to pretend that "sex education" without morals will reduce the number of teenage pregnancies, when the opposite is true. But the far lefties don't see their own hypocrisy. They are too busy embracing corruption.

Name one person or politician that lobbies to legislate immorality.
You claim to be anti abortion yet oppose education to prevent pregnancy.
When I was growing up in the late 50s to the late 60s there was NO sex education in the schools and teen pregnancy was high as hell then.
Teen pregnancy is going down now. Down 37% in the last 20 years.

Your argument is not based on logic or fact to back it up.

Complete and total fabrication. Provide some links. You won't find any, because what you're saying is a lie.

Teen pregnancy rates went through the ROOF after the advent of legalized abortion. It kept climbing until the 90s, when it tapered off, and eventually began to come down incrementally (after abstinence started to be publicly advocated again, following decades of telling children they were expected to have sex, it was their nature and A-ok to follow that impulse). It's still exponentially higher than it was before legalized abortion.

So take your own advice, and educate yourself before spreading any more lies. Teen pregnancy peaked in 1990.

Products - Health E Stats - Recent Trends in Teenage Pregnancy - 1990-2002

 

[InDoctriNation]

Problem with abortion. It's too easily done. People are using it as a means of contraception. My opinion, it's murder. If you left the baby alone, it will grow into a person with thoughts, feelings. By executing that person before he/she has even had a breath of air. It's not right.

Now, however...I accept, that in some extreme circumstances, eg a rape victim (although I still feel the child is an innocent) or for example a sick **** father that rapes his daughter of 13 and she falls pregnant. In those circumstances, abortion is more acceptable.

However, we should not base our laws around these extreme circumstances. Abortion should not be readily available.

But wouldn't abortion still be murder according to you in the cases of rape and incest? If you accept abortion in the cases of rape and incest, you are essentially condoning the murder of the child for the sins of the parents. Just playing some devil's advocate.

It is not necessarily the case that the fetus/embryo will grow into a person with thoughts and feelings if left alone. In fact, by best estimates about half of all fertilized eggs are miscarried naturally, most of the time before the woman even knows she's pregnant. In cases when the woman knows she's pregnant, the miscarriage rate is estimated to be between 15% and 25% (I googled these stats, multiple websites supported them). So there certainly is no guarantee that all aborted fetuses would have become fully functioning human beings, and it is likely that a decent percentage would have been miscarried naturally. In fact, if you truly believe that every fertilized egg is a human being, the destruction of which is murder, then you must think that the natural miscarriage rate of around 50% is the greatest tragedy in human history.

I'm not arguing that abortion is right, but I do believe that it must be legal in order to minimize human suffering overall. While making abortion illegal would probably lower the abortion rate somewhat, I think the cost of human life in the form of botched illegal abortions would heavily outweigh the "benefits" of making abortion illegal across the board. I think we have a pretty good, thoughtful middle ground established in most states when it comes to abortion laws.

There's no evidence that legalized abortion alleviates any suffering, in fact, quite the opposite. And again, you're pretending that without legalized abortion, there will be hordes of babies born as a result of rape and incest. Not so. Legalized abortion has never been required to deal with such situations (provided the mother reports the incident. If she doesn't, and seeks abortion later, she is seeking to protect the perp, which again is one of the primary functions of legalized abortion).

And people STILL DIE from botched abortions. Have you checked the numbers you're talking about? I think there were 30 deaths or so the last year before abortion was legalized. The pro-abortionists like to pretend that death was common, widespread, and in huge numbers. It wasn't. They also like to pretend that all women who get abortions legally now would still get abortions illegally and at risk to their own lives (more risk, anyway) if it was illegal. Also not true. Essentially, they pretend that all those who seek abortions are stupid, and criminal, at heart, and will ignore any law in order to kill the babies they carry.

It's a fantasy held by the left, a complete and total fabrication based on their disdain of the people they expect and encourage to kill their babies.

I never said anything about hordes of babies being born due to rape and incest without legalized abortion, so I don't know where you're getting that from. However, are you suggesting that if abortion was illegal there wouldn't be more babies born due to rape and incest? There obviously would be more babies born due to rape and incest if abortion were illegal, this isn't rocket science.

Besides, if you think abortion kills a lot of "babies," it's nothing compared to the monstrous death toll caused by natural miscarriages. Again, what do you think about the fact that about 50% of all fertilized eggs (equal to fully functioning human beings, according to you) are naturally miscarried? I don't see you crying over what I must imagine you consider to be the greatest human tragedy in the history of humanity. I mean, this makes heart disease look like a mild case of acne. Where is your outrage over the fact that we haven't figured out how to prevent half of all "human beings" from dying before they even leave the womb?

 

[metavate]

That is a moronic argument, so half are going to die anyway so we may as well kill them to make sure?? What?? Surely your argument would be better suited in the pro life camp. If a doctor said to a mother, "look there is a 50% chance the baby will naturally abort". Then the mother might decide to take THAT chance.

The fact is we are living in a society where sex with a stranger doesn't bat most young peoples eye-lids.

They are using abortion as a contraceptive. Which is WRONG. Each abortion case should be looked at in full before someone takes the decision to terminate another human life.

Think about it, what if it was you in the womb? And men, what if it was your child who you are watching running around playing today, or watched grow up. What if your wife/partner had decided to deny that life.

If the mother doesn't want to have the child or can't support it, then 1. She shouldn't be having unprotected sex and 2. There are plenty of familys out there willing to adopt. 9 months pregnancy is not a lot to ask for, for your mistake and for another human to live their life.

 

[HotDogg]

That is a moronic argument, so half are going to die anyway so we may as well kill them to make sure?? What?? Surely your argument would be better suited in the pro life camp. If a doctor said to a mother, "look there is a 50% chance the baby will naturally abort". Then the mother might decide to take THAT chance.

The fact is we are living in a society where sex with a stranger doesn't bat most young peoples eye-lids.

They are using abortion as a contraceptive. Which is WRONG. Each abortion case should be looked at in full before someone takes the decision to terminate another human life.

Think about it, what if it was you in the womb? And men, what if it was your child who you are watching running around playing today, or watched grow up. What if your wife/partner had decided to deny that life.

If the mother doesn't want to have the child or can't support it, then 1. She shouldn't be having unprotected sex and 2. There are plenty of familys out there willing to adopt. 9 months pregnancy is not a lot to ask for, for your mistake and for another human to live their life.

So how are you going to force the woman to carry the pregnancy to term?

 

[metavate]

Well what you do is make abortions illegal to just anyone. That way womem will not be able to easily have one and they will stop treating an abortion as a contraceptive. This in turn will mean they will have to use proper precautions before engaging in sexual intercourse. The pil, condoms, the coil etc . It will also ensure women take a more responsibility for their actions.

As far as forcing women to have babies, there will always be back street abortions. But what can we do? We need to educate about the consequences of unsafe sex.

We can't stop people from murdering other people, but we can put laws and consequences in place to limit it.

 

[Dr Grump]

My real life solution is to advocate absintinence, educate children about the permanency of bad decisions when they are young, reward them for self control and responsibility at a young age, and quit telling them that it's perfectly normal for them to have sex. It's NOT normal or healthy for children to have sex, and we need to quit pretending it is. It leads to all sorts of depravity, emotional and physical issues for the kids. They aren't old enough to vote or drink, they aren't old enough for sex.

Pretty simple. And stop marketing abortion as a cure-all for behavior that shouldn't be taking place in teh first place. The fact that they can get abortions without input from their parents or naming the fathers is criminal, and needs to be stopped. Not solely because of the babies that are slaughtered, but because of the harm that is done to the children upon whom the abortions are being performed, and the way the perpetrators who abuse them are protected and delivered from all accountability.

Abstinance doesn't work. People like having sex as recreation..get with the reality of the situation for a start.

You are truly a clueless wonder....

 

[HotDogg]

Well what you do is make abortions illegal to just anyone. That way womem will not be able to easily have one and they will stop treating an abortion as a contraceptive. This in turn will mean they will have to use proper precautions before engaging in sexual intercourse. The pil, condoms, the coil etc . It will also ensure women take a more responsibility for their actions.

As far as forcing women to have babies, there will always be back street abortions. But what can we do? We need to educate about the consequences of unsafe sex.

We can't stop people from murdering other people, but we can put laws and consequences in place to limit it.

Is that like the war on drugs, just make them illegal and you solve the problem?

GW Bush outlawed condoms as humanitarian aid for third world countries. I bet you voted for him.

So what would you do if say, the police caught a woman who had an abortion? Put them in jail for 25 to life for murder 1?

 

[Dr.Drock]

Well what you do is make abortions illegal to just anyone. That way womem will not be able to easily have one and they will stop treating an abortion as a contraceptive. This in turn will mean they will have to use proper precautions before engaging in sexual intercourse. The pil, condoms, the coil etc . It will also ensure women take a more responsibility for their actions.

As far as forcing women to have babies, there will always be back street abortions. But what can we do? We need to educate about the consequences of unsafe sex.

We can't stop people from murdering other people, but we can put laws and consequences in place to limit it.

Is that like the war on drugs, just make them illegal and you solve the problem?

GW Bush outlawed condoms as humanitarian aid for third world countries. I bet you voted for him.

So what would you do if say, the police caught a woman who had an abortion? Put them in jail for 25 to life for murder 1?

I'm not using this as a reason why pro-lifers should turn into pro-choicers, but there'd be no crime harder to catch and convict someone of than if abortion were a crime.

You'd have to have evidence a woman was pregnant and that a pregnancy ended, she could always claim she naturally miscarried or that the miscarriage happened because of some accident.

 

[InDoctriNation]

That is a moronic argument, so half are going to die anyway so we may as well kill them to make sure?? What?? Surely your argument would be better suited in the pro life camp. If a doctor said to a mother, "look there is a 50% chance the baby will naturally abort". Then the mother might decide to take THAT chance.

The fact is we are living in a society where sex with a stranger doesn't bat most young peoples eye-lids.

They are using abortion as a contraceptive. Which is WRONG. Each abortion case should be looked at in full before someone takes the decision to terminate another human life.

Think about it, what if it was you in the womb? And men, what if it was your child who you are watching running around playing today, or watched grow up. What if your wife/partner had decided to deny that life.

If the mother doesn't want to have the child or can't support it, then 1. She shouldn't be having unprotected sex and 2. There are plenty of familys out there willing to adopt. 9 months pregnancy is not a lot to ask for, for your mistake and for another human to live their life.

I'm not arguing that you should just get an abortion anyways because of the high miscarriage rate, but I'm arguing that natural abortions are a very common thing. For whatever reason, the pro life crowd doesn't seem to give a lick about the natural abortion rate, which vastly dwarfs the unnatural abortion rate.

Consider this hypothetical situation: A woman has a natural condition which causes a thinning of the unterine wall, making it nearly impossible for implantation of a fertilized egg during ovulation. This woman is aware of her condition, and she has accepted the fact that she will almost certainly not be able to have children. She is married, and enjoys a healthy sex life with her spouse, which she wishes to continue.

If this woman, whose womb essentially acts as a natural abortifacient, continues to have sex with her husband, do you really believe that she is guilty of mass infanticide (keep in mind she is knowledgeable of her condition)? If the pro lifers truly believe that the life of every fertilized egg is just as valuable as my own life, then you must believe this to be consistent. If the pro lifers don't believe that she is guilty of mass infanticide, then you must believe that a fertilized egg isn't necessarily enough to constitute a human being. So which is it?

 

[Moonglow]

i kill my sperm daily

 

[HotDogg]

If my woman swallows my sperm, thus killing it, is that a pro-choice action? Or do anti-choicers do that to?

 

[BDBoop]

Yeah, Rick Perry tried claiming abstinence is infallible as well. Everybody knows that hormones trump brains far too often for that to be true.

 

[Moonglow]

women kill eggs every month