Zone1 A Question For Pro-Choicers

[NotfooledbyW]

bbblylck.22.07.10 #222

Was a Jew living in Germany in the 1930s a person, or not?

Please refer to nf.23.19.15 #596 to continue a discussion about when personhood begins if it is not at birth and as proscribed in the US Constitution and upheld by six right wing Catholics on the USSC,

How do you BobBlaylick know EXACTLY the precise moment that this . . . . . .

becomes a “person” that looks like this?

or more exactly like this;

See Post nf.23.08.18 #10,336 I’m with Rabbi Schneur Zalman and Rabbi Aryeh Kaplan (1934-1983) who in essence say the sanctity of life begins at first breath and personhood begins.

Do you have any evidence that the good Rabbis have it all wrong?

nf.23.19.15 #601

 

[Bob Blaylock]

How do you BobBlaylick [sic] know EXACTLY the precise moment that this . . . . . .

becomes a “person” that looks like this?

or more exactly like this;

How do you, NotfooledbyW, know EXACTLY the precise moment that this…

Becomes a “person” that looks like this…?

 

[alang1216]

Sure and they have nothing to do with this discussion unless you are making a two wrongs makes a right argument.

No, same lesser of two evils one.

But if you see abortion as a tragedy, then why won't you say it is wrong to abort a human life? Or even acknowledge that abortion ends a human life? You can always say you still support it even though it's wrong.

I don't see a fertilized egg as possessing any human trait besides some organic molecules. The tragedy is for the mother not the egg.

 

[alang1216]

Does that mean you don't agree that at conception a new genetically distinct human being has come into existence even though that's what the science tells us?

Science can't tell us the value of it and, until it becomes a person, I'd put its value very low.

 

[alang1216]

That's nice. Are you going to start making a soul argument? Because as far as science is concerned, human life begins at conception.

"After fertilization has taken place a new human being has come into being...[this] is no longer a matter of taste or opinion, it is not a metaphysical contention, it is plain experimental evidence...." - Dr Jerome LeJeune, Professor of Genetics at the University of Descartes, Paris, discoverer of the chromosome pattern of Down's Syndrome, and Nobel Prize Winner​

When does science say we exhibit traits unique in the animal kingdom?

 

[koshergrl]

00599 kshrgrl.23.10.15 #599 to nf.23.19.15 #596 Our appearance doesn't dictate our humanity, nor does our size or dependence.

I make absolutely zero argument that appearance dictates our humanity.


These appearances are absolutely
View attachment 843290

a part of our humanity.

View attachment 843291


So hopefully you can move forward and answer the actual question that was asked.


nf.23.19.15 #596 How does Saint Koshergrl know EXACTLY the precise moment that this . . . . . . becomes a “person” that looks like this?

My spiritual and thus moral answer to the above is in agreement with many a Jewish Rabbi

Do you have divine knowledge which allows us to believe your truth as opposed to the Jewish truth mentioned in the remainder of my post #596 ?????

nf.23.10.15 #600 .

Well research shows us that we are alive and a complete human at conception. I know that is not the totality of our existence we but as far as I know human rights do not extend to our spiritual selves, though who knows maybe this will change.

 

[BULLDOG]

I tend to agree that in very early pregnancy the decision should be made by the woman and her doctor who is professionally trained to know what unusual risks the pregnancy might present to her or what uncorrectable defects the developing baby will have.

Even later in the pregnancy should a medical condition occur or be discovered that puts the woman at serious risk of death or injury, the doctor and hospital should be allowed to make the call. (This happens in fewer than 1% of cases, almost statistically insignificant. In most cases the mother and child can be saved.)

It's not insignificant if you are the woman.

 

[Foxfyre]

It's not insignificant if you are the woman.

It is not insignificant to the developing human being in the womb either.

 

[NotfooledbyW]

the precise moment

00602 bbblylck.23.10.25 #602 to nf.23.19.15 #601 “How do you, NotfooledbyW, know EXACTLY the precise moment that this…

Becomes a “person” that looks like this…?

I am certain that both have a birth certificate which records the exact year month day hour and minute that the precise moment that the United States recognizes the baby and the old man are persons.

It is universal that personhood occurs at birth so I am not sure why you asked the question, Are you going to ignore my question to you about Jewish belief that the sanctity of life begins at first breath.

My spiritual and thus moral answer to the above is in agreement with many a Jewish Rabbi who might be closer to Saint Kgirl’s and Saint Ding’s Judeo/Christian God than I shall ever be?

See Post nf.23.08.18 #10,336 .. Here is a relevant excerpt;

Rabbi Schneur Zalman explains that the Torah’s use of the word “breath” to describe the Neshama, to teach that it comes from the essence of God, and he refers to it as a “part of God.”[15]

Rabbi Aryeh Kaplan (1934-1983) provides additional insights into this metaphor: [16]

“God's exhaling a soul can be compared to a glassblower forming a vessel. The breath (neshama) first leaves his lips, travels as a wind (ruach) and finally comes to rest (nefesh) in the vessel.

The vessel (our body) I understand is depicted in the lower picture (sleeping infant) and neshama comes to rest in the vessel at birth which I call First Breath.

FIRST BREATH Science is more in line with JEWISH BELIEF than CATHOLIC BELIEF and you can read more about that here:

Post nf.22.07.21 #4,141

My spiritual and thus moral answer to the above is in agreement with many a Jewish Rabbi

So the question for you Saint BobBlaylick is;

Do you have divine knowledge which allows us to believe your truth as opposed to the Jewish truth mentioned in the remainder of my post #596 ?????

nf.23.10.15 #609

 

[Bob Blaylock]

I am certain that both have a birth certificate which records the exact year month day hour and minute that the precise moment that the United States recognizes the baby and the old man are persons.

So, personhood is dependent on government recognition, and on the issuance of a government paper that recognized that person as such?

There are no persons, then, for example, on North Sentinel Island, where, as far as we know, no government exists of sufficient sophistication to create records or birth certificates?

It is universal that personhood occurs at birth so I am not sure why you asked the question, Are you going to ignore my question to you about Jewish belief that the sanctity of life begins at first breath.

That is absolutely false.

Personhood begins when the human organism comes into existence which is at conception. From that point, a new human being exists, and to kill him is murder.

Of course, in the manner of Göbbels, you will continue to repeat the big lie, denying the very humanity of the most innocent and defenseless of all human beings, in order to justify the cold-blooded murder of thousands of them every day; hoping that if you repeat it often enough, loudly enough, hatefully enough, it will take on some veneer of truth.

It didn't work for Göbbels or his associates, and it won't work for you, either.

 

[ding]

When does science say we exhibit traits unique in the animal kingdom?

Such as?

 

[ding]

No, same lesser of two evils one.

What's the other tragedy?

 

[ding]

I don't see a fertilized egg as possessing any human trait besides some organic molecules. The tragedy is for the mother not the egg.

So you are saying it is not human?

 

[ding]

Science can't tell us the value of it and, until it becomes a person, I'd put its value very low.

It is most certainly is a person. A very specific person. A person in its earliest stage of its human life cycle.

Would you like to make lampshades out of them, Adolph?

 

[NotfooledbyW]

Göbbels

bbblylck.23.10.15 #610

What's the other tragedy?

You and Saint BobBlaylick dehumanizing Jews for believing the sanctity of life begins at first breath.

 

[ding]

I think you people should probably educate yourself on abortion techniques and the pictures of the babies post abortion. Maybe then you won't make such ridiculous arguments that they aren't human or persons.

 

[ding]

The tragedy is for the mother not the egg.

What's the tragedy for the mother?

Is it anything like this?

This picture of Aborted Babies shows what remains of a baby destroyed by a suction aspiration abortion. Suction aspiration, or “vacuum curettage,” is the abortion technique used in most first trimester abortions. A powerful suction tube with a sharp cutting edge is inserted into the womb through the dilated cervix. The suction dismembers the body of the developing baby and tears the placenta from the wall of the uterus, sucking blood, amniotic fluid, placental tissue, and fetal parts into a collection bottle. First 12 weeks of pregnancy.

 

[NotfooledbyW]

I think you people should probably educate yourself on abortion techniques and the pictures of the babies post abortion. Maybe then you won't make such ridiculous arguments that they aren't human or persons.

what people, Jewish people?

 

[NotfooledbyW]

What's the tragedy for the mother?

Is it anything like this?

View attachment 843381

This picture of Aborted Babies shows what remains of a baby destroyed by a suction aspiration abortion. Suction aspiration, or “vacuum curettage,” is the abortion technique used in most first trimester abortions. A powerful suction tube with a sharp cutting edge is inserted into the womb through the dilated cervix. The suction dismembers the body of the developing baby and tears the placenta from the wall of the uterus, sucking blood, amniotic fluid, placental tissue, and fetal parts into a collection bottle. First 12 weeks of pregnancy.

your Catholic desperation is showing,

Ohioans are not monsters

 

[Monk-Eye]

" Traitors To US Republic And Heretics Of Antinomianism "

* Refuses To Own Up To Dictation That Individuals Be Deprived Of Disposition Of Developmental Anomalies *

What's the tragedy for the mother?
Is it anything like this?
View attachment 843381

This picture of Aborted Babies shows what remains of a baby destroyed by a suction aspiration abortion. Suction aspiration, or “vacuum curettage,” is the abortion technique used in most first trimester abortions. A powerful suction tube with a sharp cutting edge is inserted into the womb through the dilated cervix. The suction dismembers the body of the developing baby and tears the placenta from the wall of the uterus, sucking blood, amniotic fluid, placental tissue, and fetal parts into a collection bottle. First 12 weeks of pregnancy.

At one time suction and aspiration abortions were common , however in these days , medical abortions up to 10 weeks , by medication - is far more common place in " without cause " abortion .

So the mantra of lies from the abortion anti-choice pundits remains that " without cause " abortions are heinous crimes , and that all abortions are " without cause " abortions , and that " with cause " abortion is to be ignored and delivery be demanded of the individual through public policy .

The traitors to principles of us republic must surely pride themselves as sanctimonious , sacrosanct , anthopocenric , freak farm fanatic psychopaths .