Zone1 A question for Jews

Another story of the power of healing in the name of Yeshua the Messiah:

Examine the following:

Jerusalem Talmud Shabbat 14:4:12


A second case of a disciple of Yeshua from the village Sama in the Galilee who came to heal Rabbi Eleazar ben Sama who was bitten by a snake. Rabbi Ishmael prevents Jacob the disciple of Yeshua to heal Rabbi Eleazar ben Dama, and he dies from the snake bite. Rabbi Ishmael blesses the dear Rabbi Eleazar ben Dama with the following words: “you are blessed Ben Dama,“ that he was not healed by the name of Yeshua.

Both Rabbi Eleazar ben Dama and Rabbi Ishmael are aware of the power of the name of Yeshua for healing. Rabbi Eleazar ben Dama is willing to allow Jacob, the disciple of Yeshua, to exercise the power of the name of Yeshua to heal him, but Rabbi Eleazar is prevented by Rabbi Ishmael from allowing Jacob, the disciple of Yeshua, to heal Rabbi Eleazar from the bite of a poisonous snake, and Rabbi Eleazar dies. At this point, Rabbi Ishmael praises Rabbi Eleazar for dying rather than being healed by Yeshua’s name.

The deep hatred that existed in the 2nd century CE between non-believing Jews and the Jews who accepted Yeshua as Messiah was so deep that Rabbi Ishmael preferred his friend and fellow Rabbi to die rather than be healed by the name of Yeshua. It was clear to both Rabbi Eleazar and Rabbi Ishmael that there is a power of healing in the name of Yeshua and that Rabbi Eleazar would have been healed if Jacob, the disciple of Yeshua, had prayed over Rabbi Eleazar’s snake bite in Yeshua’s name. The Talmud affirms that Yeshua’s name was powerful for healing, even from a bite of a deadly poisonous snake!

There are more stories in the Rabbinical texts highlighting the bitter hatred in the 3rd and 4th centuries CE. The Jews reacted against the persecution and discrimination of Gentile Christians in the Eastern Roman Empire. This deep hatred and separation between Jews and Roman Gentile Christians were a result of the Bar-Kochbah revolt of the early 2nd century CE, ending in 135 CE. With the execution of the leaders of the Revolt, including Rabbi Akiba and many Rabbis in the Land of Israel, the disciples of Yeshua integrated into Roman society, and by the middle of the 2nd century, they melted into Roman society, emulated their language and culture, and adopted anti-Jewish attitudes. We, as Jews, need to learn the simple principle that when seed is sown in the field, that is what will grow for us to eat. One of Yeshua’s great teachings is from Proverbs 24:17 and 25 :21
so now you at least have a correct citation, so we can get started (and you might want to dash of an email to your source to alert it to the error it is making claiming anything is on TY A"Z 40b.)

In Shabbat chapter 14, the text says that someone came " וּבָא יַעֲקֹב אִישׁ כְּפַר סָמָא מִשֵּׁם שֶׁל יֵשׁוּ פַּנְדֵּירָא לְרַפּוֹתוֹ"
I'm not interested in the fact that the text makes reference to Yeshu the son of Pandera.

from The Jesus Narrative In The Talmud
["Johann Maier concurs and adds that Ben Pandira had no connection to Jesus either [Johann Maier, Jesus von Nazareth in der talmudischen Uberlieferung, p. 237, cited in John P. Meier, A Marginal Jew, vol. I p. 106 n. 45]. Maier further denies that the passage in Sanhedrin 43a about the execution and disciples of Yeshu has anything to do with Jesus [Maier, p. 229, cited in Meier vol. I p. 107 n. 51]. John P. Meier, a Catholic priest and author of the most recent and highly acclaimed scholarly analysis of the evidence of Jesus' life, A Marginal Jew, which has even been added to the Anchor Bible Reference Library, takes a middle ground and says "While not accepting the full, radical approach of Maier, I think we can agree with him on one basic point: in the earliest rabbinic sources, there is no clear or even probable reference to Jesus of Nazareth" [Meier, vol. I p. 98]."]

What is more interesting is the use of the word "mishem" and not "b'shem." The former does not mean "in the name of" but "because of" as in Jerusalem Talmud Shekalim 7:2:4 where it is used twice. So no healing was being done in the name of anyone.

Oh wait -- have you actually studied the Jerusalem talmud and have an insight more informed than mine?
 
also, it is important to understand that even "b'shem" simply means that a quote is being related in the name of the person who originally said it.
 
That's nice.

Jewish Rabbinical literature deals with stories of the birth of Yeshua.

Those who opposed the Good News (the gospel) sought to prove that Yeshua was not born of a virgin. Rabbis in the second century worked to discredit the story of the birth of Yeshua as false so the rest of the story of Yeshua would be questioned, thereby ending Christianity. The birth of Yeshua is the point of Archimedes for the Rabbis, the pivotal point that, if undermined, destroys the whole gospel. The Rabbis had more than one story of Yeshu’s (in Rabbinical language) birth.

There are three stories related to the birth of Yeshua in the Talmudic literature. The first one is that his mother, Miriam, was a hairdresser. The second one is that his mother was Stada, the wife of Pappos, son of Yehuda. The third story is that Yeshua was the son of a Roman soldier named Pandera. All three of these stories are found in the Babylonian Talmud.

In one story, Jesus lived in the days of Rabbi Jehoshua ben Perachyah, and he was one of Rabbi Jehoshua ben Perachyah’s favored disciples. In another story in the Talmud, Jesus was a child (toddler) in the time of Rabbi Akiva, Rabbi Eliezer, and Rabbi Maier. For context, here is the chronology of these Rabbis:

Rabbi Jehoshua ben Perachyah was Nasi of the Sanhedrin and lived in the years 134–104 B.C.

Rabbi Akiva, Rabbi Maier, and Rabbi Eliezer lived at the beginning of the 2nd century A.D. Rabbi Akiva died in the year 135 A.D. and was executed by the Romans. How could Jesus be a disciple of Rabbi Jehoshua ben Perachyah and a toddler in the days of Rabbi Akiva at the same time?

We have the very same problem with the mother of Jesus. Assuming that the mother of Jesus was the wife of Pappos ben Yehuda, this man also lived in the second century A.D.

Examine the following:

Tosaphoth Shabbath 104 b:


We read that Jesus lived in the days of Rab Bibi and "Mirjam,” the women’s hairdresser. It was another (Mirjam), or the angel of death was also relating to Rab Bibi a story that happened a long, long time before. This medieval commentary on the Talmud sees these problems and concludes that the story of Jesus’s birth in the Rabbinical literature can’t be true because it is not possible that one person will have so many different mothers and fathers that lived hundreds of years apart. We see that negative anti-Christian propaganda is understood by the medieval Rabbis as impossible to the truth.

Here is a Rabbinical text about Jesus (Yeshu) from the early second century CE:

Examine the following:

BARAITHA


This text is significant because it shows how confused these attempts at defaming Yeshua’s birth story are. The Rabbis invented these lies. Rabbi Akiva lied in the story and was also praised by the other two Rabbis for deceiving and trapping the woman in the market of Zippori. When you look at all these stories supposedly about Jesus of Nazareth and see to what length the Rabbis of the 2nd century CE had to go to fight the early disciples of Yeshua, you can understand the Rabbis were under great pressure to fight and defame Yeshua and His disciples. It was an attempt to stop the growth of the early Christian movement inside Judaism.

As difficult as it is to believe the birth story of Yeshua with a virgin mother and God as His father, it is easier to accept and believe that than it is to ignore biblical truth and accept that one child has three different mothers and several different fathers. The Biblical pattern of our forefathers found in Genesis tells us that our forefathers Isaac, Jacob, Esau, and Joseph were born from mothers who were not able to give birth naturally. God had to intervene and open their wombs before they were able to give birth to Isaac, Jacob, Esau, and Joseph. The most dramatic case of birth was the creation of Adam from a lump of clay that God breathed life into, without a mother or an earthly father. A God who can create Adam from a lump of clay has no problem sowing a seed in a virgin’s womb.

The three stories of the birth of Yeshua fall apart in the face of logic and therefore are historically confusing to what the Talmudic Rabbis said (Yeshua was already seated on the right hand of the Heavenly Father a long time!) These made-up stories are all the Rabbis had at their disposal in order to keep their people away from the Roman and Byzantine churches.

The great Medieval Rabbi Rashi, one of the great Bible and Talmud commentators, realized that one person cannot have three different sets of parents who lived in different periods of time and that these stories about the birth of Yeshua in the Talmud are fake, written for the purpose of propaganda. Rabbis like Rabbi Jacob Emdin, a chief Rabbi of Germany, understood this, showed deep appreciation for Yeshua, and encouraged religious Jews to not only respect but also look at Yeshua with a different attitude than traditional European Christians did.

The rabbis who lived in Europe in the 13th and 14th centuries CE realized that the Talmudic stories about the birth of Yeshua didn’t hold water. Their determination that these stories were wrong shows integrity and fear of God, and possibly fear of Christians being angry with their Jewish neighbors for teaching such derogatory stories about Jesus.

Jewish people and orthodox Rabbis of modernity write and publish derogatory material against Yeshua and call him a bastard, all based on these false stories. The beginning of Nazi persecution of the Jewish population of Germany was in part because of these Talmudic passages about Jesus. Kristallnacht, the Night of Broken Glass, occurred on the night of November 9–10, 1938. This night witnessed the burning of books, especially Rabbinical literature, and the burning of synagogues throughout Germany. Nothing justifies such behavior as burning books and synagogues.

1) You are using medieval commentaries on the Talmud not the Talmud to make your argument that you ignored when discussing Jesus in Lysanias era who died in 35bc and Yeshu around 88bc.
So show us A)where in the Talmud Rabbi Yohoshua Perrachya lived in the time of a Rabbi Akiva
B) where exactly you read in the "commentary" this "same" Rabbi Akiva or is it another Akiva? You made the argument it wasn't the same Lysanias then turn around and assume Akiva is the same.
C) tell us where any off this bait and switch changes the fact the Talmud dates Yeshu's mentor in 100bc, because it mentions them fleeing King Alexander's persecution of the Pharisee during the revolt.

2) your arguments are validating mine.
 
Modern Jews do not, since they do not follow the same believes as their ancestors.
No Jew seeks a convert yesterday today and tomorrow. We tried but they couldnt pass the IQ test
 
Early Christians persecuted Jews for centuries. Did you forget about the Spanish Inquisition, anti semitic passion plays in Europe.
Jesus to Jews is an idol a craven image. When you give God a name face and personality you have created an idol
Wrong. Jews persecuted Christians for centuries, starting with Jesus and his disciples.

The Spanish Inquisition was fully justified for its time. It was not the evil persecution modern scholars make it out to be.

I am aware that modern Fake Jews hate Jesus. An idol is a false god, the one true God has shown himself as a man, even in the Old Testament/Tanakh. Like when Abraham and Gideon encountered the Lord. But he didn’t enter into the world as a born human being until Christ, fulfilling the prophecies.
 
Judaism stopped being a "proselytizing" religion a few thousand years ago.
Correct, when they went full satanic and rejected Jesus. They had to reinvent their religion, this came up with the Talmud centuries after Jesus.

Modern Judaism is a made up pagan religion masquerading as the same religion as the Israelites.
 
Wrong. Jews persecuted Christians for centuries, starting with Jesus and his disciples.

The Spanish Inquisition was fully justified for its time. It was not the evil persecution modern scholars make it out to be.

I am aware that modern Fake Jews hate Jesus. An idol is a false god, the one true God has shown himself as a man, even in the Old Testament/Tanakh. Like when Abraham and Gideon encountered the Lord. But he didn’t enter into the world as a born human being until Christ, fulfilling the prophecies.
Christians controlled all of Europe Jews we a mainority with no power
These theatrical performances of Jesus's Passion were often filled with medieval anti-Jewish tropes, depicting the Jews of the first century as greedy, bloodthirsty, devilish (including with horns), and exclusively concerned with the legalistic elements of religion.

The Spanish Inquisition was a tribunal established by the Spanish monarchy in 1478 to enforce Catholic orthodoxy within their newly unified kingdom. It was a tool of state control, using secret denunciations and lengthy trials with penalties ranging from financial fines to imprisonment and burning at the stake. Although its primary focus was religious heresy, it extended into social and political control, lasting until its final abolition in 1834.

1492 was the year of Jewish expulsion from Spain
 
Correct, when they went full satanic and rejected Jesus.
No, Judaism stopped proselytizing before the common era. And Judaism can't go "satanic" because we don't have a "satan" the way you envision it.

As for rejecting Jesus, we rejected many false messiahs, so don't feel bad that yours was one of the rejects.
They had to reinvent their religion, this came up with the Talmud centuries after Jesus.
Gee...Jesus quoted the talmud and its sages, so, um, wrong.
Modern Judaism is a made up pagan religion masquerading as the same religion as the Israelites.
You keep thinking that. It is insane, but own it!
 
Today, at the start of Rosh Hashanah, I would like to wish all my Jewish friends a Shana Tovah U'metukah.

And.

May the new year bring all who serve, sweetness, good health, prosperity, freedom, and victory.

May the new year bring all who do not serve, repentance for the spiritual birth/renewal.
 
Christians controlled all of Europe Jews we a mainority with no power
These theatrical performances of Jesus's Passion were often filled with medieval anti-Jewish tropes, depicting the Jews of the first century as greedy, bloodthirsty, devilish (including with horns), and exclusively concerned with the legalistic elements of religion
Christians did not control all of Europe early on. The Romans were pagans and allowed Jews in the empire, and Jews were very influential so they worked with Rome to persecute Christians.

Yes, the fake Jews at the time did not know God and were satanic imbeciles, much like the left today.

Nothing wrong with pointing out the error of people’s ways.
 
Christians did not control all of Europe early on. The Romans were pagans and allowed Jews in the empire, and Jews were very influential so they worked with Rome to persecute Christians.

Yes, the fake Jews at the time did not know God and were satanic imbeciles, much like the left today.

Nothing wrong with pointing out the error of people’s ways.
Jews were a tiny powerless minority and in the face of centuries of Christian bigotry they created the most successful culture in the world. Jesus save but Moses invests. We are just smarter
 
Your point?

Why should Christians put up anti-Christs?
1492 was the year of Jewish expulsion from Spain convert leave or die. So we left. Spains IQ dropped 20 points
 
15th post
No, Judaism stopped proselytizing before the common era. And Judaism can't go "satanic" because we don't have a "satan" the way you envision it.

As for rejecting Jesus, we rejected many false messiahs, so don't feel bad that yours was one of the rejects.

Gee...Jesus quoted the talmud and its sages, so, um, wrong.

You keep thinking that. It is insane, but own it!
Thanks for proving my point, you completely ignore the scriptures of the Torah. You don’t believe that Satan exists, so you have nothing in common with ancient Israelites.

The Talmud was written hundreds of years after Jesus. How did he “quote the Talmud”?
 
Jews were a tiny powerless minority and in the face of centuries of Christian bigotry they created the most successful culture in the world. Jesus save but Moses invests. We are just smarter

LOL a “powerless minority”. That’s rich.

It’s not very “smart” to deny God and condemn yourself to eternal hell.
 
Thanks for proving my point, you completely ignore the scriptures of the Torah. You don’t believe that Satan exists, so you have nothing in common with ancient Israelites.

The Talmud was written hundreds of years after Jesus. How did he “quote the Talmud”?
There is no devil in Judaism Satan means liar not devil. There is no hell in Judaism. We have Sheol where we all return to god.

The Pentateuch (the first five books of the Hebrew Bible) was likely compiled in its final form during the Babylonian exile and the Persian period, around the 6th to 5th centuries BCE, though it contains sources from much earlier periods and reflects traditions spanning centuries. While Jewish tradition and some Christian scholarship hold that Moses wrote the Pentateuch around the 15th century BCE, mainstream scholarly views suggest a more complex, multi-stage composition process over a considerable span of time.

Christians needed a devil and hell to threaten people into loyalty. So they made it up based on dualism a primitive religion like Zoroastrianism.
Lucifer is the bearer of enlightenment
 
LOL a “powerless minority”. That’s rich.

It’s not very “smart” to deny God and condemn yourself to eternal hell.
We have done quite well. We dont have hell. Anyways I hear its filled up with Catholic priests
 

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