Zone1 A question for Jews

[rosends]

In the Talmud, Yeshua is a healer well into the second century CE.

Examine the following:

The Jerusalem Talmud Tractate Aboda Zara 40b

You realize that the Yerushalmi of Avoda Zara ends on page 37 b, right?

תלמוד ירושלמי - נזיקין, נדה - (page 654 of 728)

hebrewbooks.org

so I'm not sure why your "source" would reference a page that doesn't exist.

Did you want to try again?

 

[Hafar1014]

Sure. All religions have Holy Books that say they're the OneTrueReligion. Your Holy Book isn't special in that regard.

Th Christian holy book is Jewish holy set of 5 books that they had to distort to create a reason for Jesus to exist

 

[Hafar1014]

You make this claim, yet the prophecy of the Messiah says all nations will serve him.

Jews do not seek converts

 

[Hafar1014]

Typical modern day Jew response. None of it happened even though there is a mountain of evidence historically.

But even as a practicing Jew, you can answer the questions:

Is Daniel‘s prophecy of the Son of Man a reference to a mere human, or is the Christ going to be also a divine Son of God?

Early Christians persecuted Jews for centuries. Did you forget about the Spanish Inquisition, anti semitic passion plays in Europe.
Jesus to Jews is an idol a craven image. When you give God a name face and personality you have created an idol

 

[ding]

Jews do not seek converts

The evangelization against Christianity says otherwise.

 

[ding]

Th Christian holy book is Jewish holy set of 5 books that they had to distort to create a reason for Jesus to exist

So a conspiracy ?

 

[ding]

Early Christians persecuted Jews for centuries. Did you forget about the Spanish Inquisition, anti semitic passion plays in Europe.
Jesus to Jews is an idol a craven image. When you give God a name face and personality you have created an idol

And you don’t think you are evangelizing Judaism?

 

[ding]

You realize that the Yerushalmi of Avoda Zara ends on page 37 b, right?

תלמוד ירושלמי - נזיקין, נדה - (page 654 of 728)

hebrewbooks.org

so I'm not sure why your "source" would reference a page that doesn't exist.

Did you want to try again?

I realize you didn’t deny the text that was supplied.

 

[Hafar1014]

And you don’t think you are evangelizing Judaism?

You need to clarify your points with examples. Jews do not seek converts

 

[rosends]

I realize you didn’t deny the text that was supplied.

because the text is claimed to be on a page that doesn't exist. Why do I have to deny a phantom claim? Try finding the source so we can discuss the actual text (in the Hebrew and Aramaic). I looked and it doesn't exist. Are you unfamiliar with the source material?

 

[ding]

You need to clarify your points with examples. Jews do not seek converts

I disagree.

 

[ding]

because the text is claimed to be on a page that doesn't exist. Why do I have to deny a phantom claim? Try finding the source so we can discuss the actual text (in the Hebrew and Aramaic). I looked and it doesn't exist. Are you unfamiliar with the source material?

I’m not interested in discussing anything with you.

From google:

Tractate Avodah Zarah 40b, from the Jerusalem Talmud, contains a noteworthy account concerning a rabbi's grandson and a forbidden act of healing. While the precise text is debated by some scholars, the most commonly cited version discusses a healer who invokes the name of "Jesus son of Pandera" to heal the boy.

Overview of the account

• The situation: The grandson of Rabbi Yehoshua ben Levi had something stuck in his throat.
• The healer: A man came and offered to whisper a healing spell over the boy.
• The divine name: The healing was to be performed in the name of "Jesus son of Pandera," a figure often identified in the Talmud as Jesus of Nazareth.
• The result: The boy was healed.

Rabbinic reactions
In the account, the boy is healed, but the use of the forbidden healing spell in the name of Jesus is a subject of rabbinic debate. The account highlights the tensions within rabbinic Judaism regarding contact with heterodox or prohibited healing practices, even if they prove effective.

Broader context of Tractate Avodah Zarah
The story appears in Tractate Avodah Zarah ("Idolatry"), which is concerned with the laws governing interactions between Jews and non-Jews, as well as the prohibitions surrounding idolatry. The text of Tractate Avodah Zarah 40b also discusses other topics, such as:

• The law of bishul akum: This rule prohibits Jews from eating food cooked by a non-Jew under certain conditions.
• The use of non-Jewish oil: The Talmud recounts a debate over the source of the prohibition against using oil produced by a non-Jew, citing a story involving Rabbi Yehuda HaNasi.
• The use of statues: Discussions continue about the permissibility of deriving benefit from statues and images, continuing a topic covered in earlier parts of the tractate.

Comparison with the Babylonian Talmud
While this story appears in the Jerusalem Talmud, a parallel account also exists in the Babylonian Talmud (Avodah Zarah 27b), which is generally considered the more authoritative text. Differences between these accounts are a subject of scholarly study.

 

[rosends]

I’m not interested in discussing anything with you.

I’ll just keep posting from the link.

so you don't want to discuss the value of your claims -- you just want to keep quoting from a sourcewhich is, on its face, inaccurate? That's a weird choice. Why not choose to learn and confront the problem.

Your source cites the Jerusalem Talmud, tractate Avodah Zarah, page 40b. The Jerusalem Talmud tractate Avodah Zarah ends on 37b. The Babylonian one has much more (Avodah Zarah 40b:1) but your source is flat out wrong.

But you don't question your source. Why not?

In the face of facts, you are openly choosing to ignore the truth. Why?

 

[ding]

so you don't want to discuss the value of your claims -- you just want to keep quoting from a sourcewhich is, on its face, inaccurate? That's a weird choice. Why not choose to learn and confront the problem.

Your source cites the Jerusalem Talmud, tractate Avodah Zarah, page 40b. The Jerusalem Talmud tractate Avodah Zarah ends on 37b. The Babylonian one has much more (Avodah Zarah 40b:1) but your source is flat out wrong.

But you don't question your source. Why not?

In the face of facts, you are openly choosing to ignore the truth. Why?

Tell it to google because it seems to have an in depth discussion on it.

From google:

Tractate Avodah Zarah 40b, from the Jerusalem Talmud, contains a noteworthy account concerning a rabbi's grandson and a forbidden act of healing. While the precise text is debated by some scholars, the most commonly cited version discusses a healer who invokes the name of "Jesus son of Pandera" to heal the boy.

Overview of the account

• The situation: The grandson of Rabbi Yehoshua ben Levi had something stuck in his throat.
• The healer: A man came and offered to whisper a healing spell over the boy.
• The divine name: The healing was to be performed in the name of "Jesus son of Pandera," a figure often identified in the Talmud as Jesus of Nazareth.
• The result: The boy was healed.

Rabbinic reactions
In the account, the boy is healed, but the use of the forbidden healing spell in the name of Jesus is a subject of rabbinic debate. The account highlights the tensions within rabbinic Judaism regarding contact with heterodox or prohibited healing practices, even if they prove effective.

Broader context of Tractate Avodah Zarah
The story appears in Tractate Avodah Zarah ("Idolatry"), which is concerned with the laws governing interactions between Jews and non-Jews, as well as the prohibitions surrounding idolatry. The text of Tractate Avodah Zarah 40b also discusses other topics, such as:

• The law of bishul akum: This rule prohibits Jews from eating food cooked by a non-Jew under certain conditions.
• The use of non-Jewish oil: The Talmud recounts a debate over the source of the prohibition against using oil produced by a non-Jew, citing a story involving Rabbi Yehuda HaNasi.
• The use of statues: Discussions continue about the permissibility of deriving benefit from statues and images, continuing a topic covered in earlier parts of the tractate.

Comparison with the Babylonian Talmud
While this story appears in the Jerusalem Talmud, a parallel account also exists in the Babylonian Talmud (Avodah Zarah 27b), which is generally considered the more authoritative text. Differences between these accounts are a subject of scholarly study.

 

[rosends]

Tell it to google because it seems to have an in depth discussion on it.

I'm not the one citing google. I cited the actual text. Try again. If you rely so much on google, use it to find me the actual citation.

 

[ding]

Denying this account does not exist reveals a lot.

 

[ding]

I'm not the one citing google. I cited the actual text. Try again. If you rely so much on google, use it to find me the actual citation.

Tractate Avodah Zarah 40b, from the Jerusalem Talmud, contains a noteworthy account concerning a rabbi's grandson and a forbidden act of healing. While the precise text is debated by some scholars, the most commonly cited version discusses a healer who invokes the name of "Jesus son of Pandera" to heal the boy.

Overview of the account

• The situation: The grandson of Rabbi Yehoshua ben Levi had something stuck in his throat.
• The healer: A man came and offered to whisper a healing spell over the boy.
• The divine name: The healing was to be performed in the name of "Jesus son of Pandera," a figure often identified in the Talmud as Jesus of Nazareth.
• The result: The boy was healed.

Rabbinic reactions
In the account, the boy is healed, but the use of the forbidden healing spell in the name of Jesus is a subject of rabbinic debate. The account highlights the tensions within rabbinic Judaism regarding contact with heterodox or prohibited healing practices, even if they prove effective.

Broader context of Tractate Avodah Zarah
The story appears in Tractate Avodah Zarah ("Idolatry"), which is concerned with the laws governing interactions between Jews and non-Jews, as well as the prohibitions surrounding idolatry. The text of Tractate Avodah Zarah 40b also discusses other topics, such as:

• The law of bishul akum: This rule prohibits Jews from eating food cooked by a non-Jew under certain conditions.
• The use of non-Jewish oil: The Talmud recounts a debate over the source of the prohibition against using oil produced by a non-Jew, citing a story involving Rabbi Yehuda HaNasi.
• The use of statues: Discussions continue about the permissibility of deriving benefit from statues and images, continuing a topic covered in earlier parts of the tractate.

Comparison with the Babylonian Talmud
While this story appears in the Jerusalem Talmud, a parallel account also exists in the Babylonian Talmud (Avodah Zarah 27b), which is generally considered the more authoritative text. Differences between these accounts are a subject of scholarly study.

 

[ding]

I'm not the one citing google. I cited the actual text. Try again. If you rely so much on google, use it to find me the actual citation.

Another story about Rabbi Jehoshua ben Levi.

“R. Joshua b. Levi met Elijah standing by the entrance of R. Simeon b. Yohai’s tomb. He asked him, ‘Have I a portion in the world to come?’ He replied, ‘if this Master desires it.’ R. Joshua b. Levi said, ‘I saw two, but heard the voice of a third.’ He then asked him, ‘When will the Messiah come?’ – 'Go and ask him himself’, was his reply. 'Where is he sitting?’ – ‘At the entrance (of the city).' – 'And by what sign may I recognize him?’ – ‘He is sitting among the poor lepers: all of them untie [them] all at once, and rebandage them together, whereas he unties and rebandages each separately, [before treating the next], thinking, should I be wanted, [it being time for my appearance as the Messiah] I must not be delayed [through having to bandage a number of sores].’ So, he went to him and greeted him, saying, ‘peace upon thee, Master and Teacher.’ ‘Peace upon thee, O son of Levi,’ he replied. ‘When wilt thou come Master?’ asked he, “To-day’, was his answer. On his returning to Elijah, the latter enquired, “What did he say to thee?’ – ‘peace Upon thee, O son of Levi,’ he answered, thereupon he [Elijah] observed, ‘He thereby assured thee and thy father of [a portion in] the world to come.’ ‘He spoke falsely to me,’ he rejoined, ‘stating that he would come to-day, but has not.’ He [Elijah] answered him, ‘This is what he said to thee, To-day, if ye will hear his voice.’"

 

[rosends]

here is 27b in the Babylonian Talmud

Avodah Zarah 27b:1

The Gemara explains the rationale for this leniency: The gentile thinks to himself that the Jew is asking him for his opinion, and just as he is asking him, he...

www.sefaria.org

all you have to do is find the equivalent text in the Jerusalem Talmud. How tough can that be?

I'll get you started if you want:

Jerusalem Talmud Avodah Zarah

Tractate Avodah Zara (“Idolatry”) is a tractate in Seder Nezikin (“Order of Damages") that discusses the prohibition of idolatry and regulations on interactions between Jews and idolaters. The first two chapters address economic relationships with idolaters and consumption of their food. The...

www.sefaria.org

Just look up what you want and show me. Shouldn't be that tough.

 

[ding]

here is 27b in the Babylonian Talmud

Avodah Zarah 27b:1

The Gemara explains the rationale for this leniency: The gentile thinks to himself that the Jew is asking him for his opinion, and just as he is asking him, he...

www.sefaria.org

all you have to do is find the equivalent text in the Jerusalem Talmud. How tough can that be?

I'll get you started if you want:

Jerusalem Talmud Avodah Zarah

Tractate Avodah Zara (“Idolatry”) is a tractate in Seder Nezikin (“Order of Damages") that discusses the prohibition of idolatry and regulations on interactions between Jews and idolaters. The first two chapters address economic relationships with idolaters and consumption of their food. The...

www.sefaria.org

Just look up what you want and show me. Shouldn't be that tough.

Another story of the power of healing in the name of Yeshua the Messiah:

Examine the following:

Jerusalem Talmud Shabbat 14:4:12

״It happened that Eleazar ben Dama was bitten by a snake and Jacob from Kefar-Sama came to heal him in the name of Jesus ben Pandera, but Rebbi Ismael prevented him. He told him, I shall bring a proof that he can heal me. He could not bring proof before he died. Rebbi Ismael said to him, you are blessed, ben Dama, that you left this world in peace and did not tear down the fences of the Sages, as it is written, he who tears down a fence will be bitten by a snake. But did not a snake bite him? But that it will not bite him in the Future World.״

A second case of a disciple of Yeshua from the village Sama in the Galilee who came to heal Rabbi Eleazar ben Sama who was bitten by a snake. Rabbi Ishmael prevents Jacob the disciple of Yeshua to heal Rabbi Eleazar ben Dama, and he dies from the snake bite. Rabbi Ishmael blesses the dear Rabbi Eleazar ben Dama with the following words: “you are blessed Ben Dama,“ that he was not healed by the name of Yeshua.

Both Rabbi Eleazar ben Dama and Rabbi Ishmael are aware of the power of the name of Yeshua for healing. Rabbi Eleazar ben Dama is willing to allow Jacob, the disciple of Yeshua, to exercise the power of the name of Yeshua to heal him, but Rabbi Eleazar is prevented by Rabbi Ishmael from allowing Jacob, the disciple of Yeshua, to heal Rabbi Eleazar from the bite of a poisonous snake, and Rabbi Eleazar dies. At this point, Rabbi Ishmael praises Rabbi Eleazar for dying rather than being healed by Yeshua’s name.

The deep hatred that existed in the 2nd century CE between non-believing Jews and the Jews who accepted Yeshua as Messiah was so deep that Rabbi Ishmael preferred his friend and fellow Rabbi to die rather than be healed by the name of Yeshua. It was clear to both Rabbi Eleazar and Rabbi Ishmael that there is a power of healing in the name of Yeshua and that Rabbi Eleazar would have been healed if Jacob, the disciple of Yeshua, had prayed over Rabbi Eleazar’s snake bite in Yeshua’s name. The Talmud affirms that Yeshua’s name was powerful for healing, even from a bite of a deadly poisonous snake!

There are more stories in the Rabbinical texts highlighting the bitter hatred in the 3rd and 4th centuries CE. The Jews reacted against the persecution and discrimination of Gentile Christians in the Eastern Roman Empire. This deep hatred and separation between Jews and Roman Gentile Christians were a result of the Bar-Kochbah revolt of the early 2nd century CE, ending in 135 CE. With the execution of the leaders of the Revolt, including Rabbi Akiba and many Rabbis in the Land of Israel, the disciples of Yeshua integrated into Roman society, and by the middle of the 2nd century, they melted into Roman society, emulated their language and culture, and adopted anti-Jewish attitudes. We, as Jews, need to learn the simple principle that when seed is sown in the field, that is what will grow for us to eat. One of Yeshua’s great teachings is from Proverbs 24:17 and 25 :21