Zone1 A question for Jews

[ding]

Yes

How many?

 

[rosends]

How many?

here, read through all the discussion

Jesus In The Talmud - Introduction

Jesus In The Talmud

www.angelfire.com

 

[ding]

here, read through all the discussion

Jesus In The Talmud - Introduction

Jesus In The Talmud

www.angelfire.com

We both know there was only one. The Babylonian Talmud contains a passage in Sanhedrin 43a that refers to the execution of a figure named Yeshu, who is widely understood to be Jesus.

Try googling it. I'll see your link and raise you mine.

By Joseph Shulam-



I would have difficulty believing in the truthfulness of the story of Yeshua (Jesus) if He were not mentioned anywhere in Jewish literature. What if a fantastic story like the story of Yeshua (from his birth to his resurrection from the dead to his ascension to heaven) were not mentioned anywhere else except in the texts of what is commonly called “The New Testament”? A person like Yeshua was a stone of contention, an Archimedes point, a pivotal point of human history, and a controversial personality. He was King of the Jews, as it was written on a plaque on top of the cross of His crucifixion.

We are fortunate that we have a vast store of literature from the Pharisees of Yeshua’s day. They collected and preserved the discussions and controversies of the time. Most Christians are not educated in the literature of the Pharisees. This literature is divided into three different forms. The first is the Mishnah, a collection of Rabbinical sources and quotations from Rabbis who lived in the 2nd century BC until the middle of the 2nd century CE. The second is the Jerusalem Talmud, a collection of similar discussions from the 5th century CE. The third is the Babylonian Talmud, which was finished in the 6th century CE and dealt with material similar to that of the Jerusalem Talmud.

We are fortunate that Josephus Flavius, the Jewish historian of the first century, mentions Yeshua in his books. We are also fortunate that we have the Midrashic literature, a collection of various homiletic material and quasi-commentaries of the Torah. These commentaries include those of Rabbis from before the fall of Jerusalem and the destruction of the Temple in Jerusalem, through to medieval Rabbinical commentators. Understand that most of the material that was written in this Rabbinical literature was written against Yeshua and His disciples. However, what was written against is also a witness to what was real and important for the Jews in the diaspora, who were opponents of Yeshua and his disciples. Often, these Rabbis referred to Yeshua in order to oppose Him, but by opposing Him, they affirmed Him. What was intended to negate Yeshua turns out to affirm the positive. The Jewish rabbinical opponents of Jesus and his disciples did not write about Him for several centuries after His death, burial, and resurrection. But, when they began to discuss Yeshua, Rabbis attributed stories to Him that affirm the historical Yeshua. The story's origins date back to the 2nd century B.C. The records of this material written against Yeshua by the Pharisaic Rabbis are preserved in the rabbinical materials in the Mishnah, Midrashic Literature, and in both the Jerusalem Talmud and the Babylonian Talmud.

In this article, I will attempt to capture the most interesting stories about Jesus in Rabbinical literature and try to make lemonade from the rotten lemons grown in rabbinical gardens in the dark valleys of religious prejudice, hate, and ignorance. What was meant for evil will turn out to be for good!

Yeshua in the Talmud | Netivyah

 

[rosends]

We both know there was only one. The Babylonian Talmud contains a passage in Sanhedrin 43a that refers to the execution of a figure named Yeshu, who is widely understood to be Jesus.

Try googling it.

So then you didn't read what I presented. I guess you don't want to learn anything. Pity.

 

[ding]

So then you didn't read what I presented. I guess you don't want to learn anything. Pity.

Did you read mine? Did you google the answer?

By Joseph Shulam-



I would have difficulty believing in the truthfulness of the story of Yeshua (Jesus) if He were not mentioned anywhere in Jewish literature. What if a fantastic story like the story of Yeshua (from his birth to his resurrection from the dead to his ascension to heaven) were not mentioned anywhere else except in the texts of what is commonly called “The New Testament”? A person like Yeshua was a stone of contention, an Archimedes point, a pivotal point of human history, and a controversial personality. He was King of the Jews, as it was written on a plaque on top of the cross of His crucifixion.

We are fortunate that we have a vast store of literature from the Pharisees of Yeshua’s day. They collected and preserved the discussions and controversies of the time. Most Christians are not educated in the literature of the Pharisees. This literature is divided into three different forms. The first is the Mishnah, a collection of Rabbinical sources and quotations from Rabbis who lived in the 2nd century BC until the middle of the 2nd century CE. The second is the Jerusalem Talmud, a collection of similar discussions from the 5th century CE. The third is the Babylonian Talmud, which was finished in the 6th century CE and dealt with material similar to that of the Jerusalem Talmud.

We are fortunate that Josephus Flavius, the Jewish historian of the first century, mentions Yeshua in his books. We are also fortunate that we have the Midrashic literature, a collection of various homiletic material and quasi-commentaries of the Torah. These commentaries include those of Rabbis from before the fall of Jerusalem and the destruction of the Temple in Jerusalem, through to medieval Rabbinical commentators. Understand that most of the material that was written in this Rabbinical literature was written against Yeshua and His disciples. However, what was written against is also a witness to what was real and important for the Jews in the diaspora, who were opponents of Yeshua and his disciples. Often, these Rabbis referred to Yeshua in order to oppose Him, but by opposing Him, they affirmed Him. What was intended to negate Yeshua turns out to affirm the positive. The Jewish rabbinical opponents of Jesus and his disciples did not write about Him for several centuries after His death, burial, and resurrection. But, when they began to discuss Yeshua, Rabbis attributed stories to Him that affirm the historical Yeshua. The story's origins date back to the 2nd century B.C. The records of this material written against Yeshua by the Pharisaic Rabbis are preserved in the rabbinical materials in the Mishnah, Midrashic Literature, and in both the Jerusalem Talmud and the Babylonian Talmud.

In this article, I will attempt to capture the most interesting stories about Jesus in Rabbinical literature and try to make lemonade from the rotten lemons grown in rabbinical gardens in the dark valleys of religious prejudice, hate, and ignorance. What was meant for evil will turn out to be for good!

Yeshua in the Talmud | Netivyah

 

[rosends]

Did you read mine? Did you google the answer?

By Joseph Shulam-



I would have difficulty believing in the truthfulness of the story of Yeshua (Jesus) if He were not mentioned anywhere in Jewish literature. What if a fantastic story like the story of Yeshua (from his birth to his resurrection from the dead to his ascension to heaven) were not mentioned anywhere else except in the texts of what is commonly called “The New Testament”? A person like Yeshua was a stone of contention, an Archimedes point, a pivotal point of human history, and a controversial personality. He was King of the Jews, as it was written on a plaque on top of the cross of His crucifixion.

We are fortunate that we have a vast store of literature from the Pharisees of Yeshua’s day. They collected and preserved the discussions and controversies of the time. Most Christians are not educated in the literature of the Pharisees. This literature is divided into three different forms. The first is the Mishnah, a collection of Rabbinical sources and quotations from Rabbis who lived in the 2nd century BC until the middle of the 2nd century CE. The second is the Jerusalem Talmud, a collection of similar discussions from the 5th century CE. The third is the Babylonian Talmud, which was finished in the 6th century CE and dealt with material similar to that of the Jerusalem Talmud.

We are fortunate that Josephus Flavius, the Jewish historian of the first century, mentions Yeshua in his books. We are also fortunate that we have the Midrashic literature, a collection of various homiletic material and quasi-commentaries of the Torah. These commentaries include those of Rabbis from before the fall of Jerusalem and the destruction of the Temple in Jerusalem, through to medieval Rabbinical commentators. Understand that most of the material that was written in this Rabbinical literature was written against Yeshua and His disciples. However, what was written against is also a witness to what was real and important for the Jews in the diaspora, who were opponents of Yeshua and his disciples. Often, these Rabbis referred to Yeshua in order to oppose Him, but by opposing Him, they affirmed Him. What was intended to negate Yeshua turns out to affirm the positive. The Jewish rabbinical opponents of Jesus and his disciples did not write about Him for several centuries after His death, burial, and resurrection. But, when they began to discuss Yeshua, Rabbis attributed stories to Him that affirm the historical Yeshua. The story's origins date back to the 2nd century B.C. The records of this material written against Yeshua by the Pharisaic Rabbis are preserved in the rabbinical materials in the Mishnah, Midrashic Literature, and in both the Jerusalem Talmud and the Babylonian Talmud.

In this article, I will attempt to capture the most interesting stories about Jesus in Rabbinical literature and try to make lemonade from the rotten lemons grown in rabbinical gardens in the dark valleys of religious prejudice, hate, and ignorance. What was meant for evil will turn out to be for good!

Yeshua in the Talmud | Netivyah

I presented all the facts and quotes that show you are wrong. Cutting and pasting the same content here doesn't make it right.

Do you expect me to go to the site I linked, copy the content and dump it here? No. If people are sincere and interested, the can go there and read.

 

[ding]

I presented all the facts and quotes that show you are wrong. Cutting and pasting the same content here doesn't make it right.

Do you expect me to go to the site I linked, copy the content and dump it here? No. If people are sincere and interested, the can go there and read.

You'll have to click his link to see his rebuttal. He's a credible witness.

 

[ding]

I presented all the facts and quotes that show you are wrong. Cutting and pasting the same content here doesn't make it right.

Do you expect me to go to the site I linked, copy the content and dump it here? No. If people are sincere and interested, the can go there and read.

Here's another credible Jewish witness who lived in the time of Christ and had everything to lose in believing in the risen Christ.

The doctrine of the resurrection is central to Christianity – so much so that St. Paul states:

If there is no resurrection of the dead, then not even Christ has been raised. And if Christ has not been raised, our preaching is useless and so is your faith. More than that, we are then found to be false witnesses about God, for we have testified about God that he raised Christ from the dead… Then those also who have fallen asleep in Christ are lost. If only for this life we have hope in Christ, we are of all people most to be pitied (1Cor 15:13-15,18-19).

It is truly extraordinary that Paul made the claim that if there is no resurrection from the dead, that the faith of believers is useless and that all who have died in Christ have died in their sins. Paul knows that if he is lying, he and the other disciples have jeopardized the salvation of the whole Christian community, and furthermore he emerges as a false witness (a perjurer) before God, and is answerable to Him. The consequences of lying to (or even deceiving) believers about the resurrection cannot be overstated, because the resurrection is the foundation of Jesus’ claim to be the exclusive Son of God – and the unconditional love of God with us.

 

[ding]

Were there more than one person named Yeshu executed for sorcery and inciting Israel to apostasy?

Yes

That's a lie. List them all.

 

[rosends]

That's a lie. List them all.

You'll have to go through the link to read about them all.

 

[HaShev]

Would it be antisemitic to say "the Babylonian Talmud contains a passage in Sanhedrin 43a that refers to the execution of a figure named Yeshu, who is widely understood to be Jesus?"

no, it's only antisemitic to use the Talmud as a redirect smokescreen ad hominem in hate propaganda.
Sanhedrin 43a & 67a is referring to 100bc Yeshu son of Pandira (the Roman Soldier Mary cheated on Joseph with and Stada (Mary's name or nickname meaning Strayed). Yeshu makes up a good portion of the image of Jesus, but he is not the singular historical source for the accounts shared with the Galilean 6bc tax revolter character Yehuda and Pilate Era Theudas by the Jordan 45ad.
Both Yehuda and Theudas are mentioned in Acts5, Josephus accounts Yehuda the tax revolter as well.

 

[ding]

no, it's only antisemitic to use the Talmud as a redirect smokescreen ad hominem in hate propaganda.
Sanhedrin 43a & 67a is referring to 100bc Yeshu son of Pandira (the Roman Soldier Mary cheated on Joseph with and Stada (Mary's name or nickname meaning Strayed). Yeshu makes up a good portion of the image of Jesus, but he is not the singular historical source for the accounts shared with the Galilean 6bc tax revolter character Yehuda and Pilate Era Theudas by the Jordan 45ad.
Both Yehuda and Theudas are mentioned in Acts5, Josephus accounts Yehuda the tax revolter as well.

That's nice.

Jewish Rabbinical literature deals with stories of the birth of Yeshua.

Those who opposed the Good News (the gospel) sought to prove that Yeshua was not born of a virgin. Rabbis in the second century worked to discredit the story of the birth of Yeshua as false so the rest of the story of Yeshua would be questioned, thereby ending Christianity. The birth of Yeshua is the point of Archimedes for the Rabbis, the pivotal point that, if undermined, destroys the whole gospel. The Rabbis had more than one story of Yeshu’s (in Rabbinical language) birth.

There are three stories related to the birth of Yeshua in the Talmudic literature. The first one is that his mother, Miriam, was a hairdresser. The second one is that his mother was Stada, the wife of Pappos, son of Yehuda. The third story is that Yeshua was the son of a Roman soldier named Pandera. All three of these stories are found in the Babylonian Talmud.

In one story, Jesus lived in the days of Rabbi Jehoshua ben Perachyah, and he was one of Rabbi Jehoshua ben Perachyah’s favored disciples. In another story in the Talmud, Jesus was a child (toddler) in the time of Rabbi Akiva, Rabbi Eliezer, and Rabbi Maier. For context, here is the chronology of these Rabbis:

Rabbi Jehoshua ben Perachyah was Nasi of the Sanhedrin and lived in the years 134–104 B.C.

Rabbi Akiva, Rabbi Maier, and Rabbi Eliezer lived at the beginning of the 2nd century A.D. Rabbi Akiva died in the year 135 A.D. and was executed by the Romans. How could Jesus be a disciple of Rabbi Jehoshua ben Perachyah and a toddler in the days of Rabbi Akiva at the same time?

We have the very same problem with the mother of Jesus. Assuming that the mother of Jesus was the wife of Pappos ben Yehuda, this man also lived in the second century A.D.

Examine the following:

Tosaphoth Shabbath 104 b:

”The Son of Stada.” Rabbenu Tam says that this is not Jesus the Nazarene, for as to the Son of Stada, we say here that he was in the days of Pappos ben Jehuda, who lived in the days of Rabbi Akiva, as is proved in the last chapter of Berakhoth (61 b), but Jesus lived in the days of Jehoshua ben Perachyah, as is proved in the last chapter of Sota (47 a): “And not like Rabbi Jehoshua ben Perachyah, who pushed away Jesus the Nazarene with both hands,” and Rabbi Jehoshua was long before Rabbi Akiva. "His mother was Mirjam, the women’s hairdresser,” and what is related in the first chapter of Chagiga (4 b): “Rab Bibi—the angel of death was found with him, etc., he said to his messenger: “Go and fetch me Mirjam, the women’s hairdresser.”

We read that Jesus lived in the days of Rab Bibi and "Mirjam,” the women’s hairdresser. It was another (Mirjam), or the angel of death was also relating to Rab Bibi a story that happened a long, long time before. This medieval commentary on the Talmud sees these problems and concludes that the story of Jesus’s birth in the Rabbinical literature can’t be true because it is not possible that one person will have so many different mothers and fathers that lived hundreds of years apart. We see that negative anti-Christian propaganda is understood by the medieval Rabbis as impossible to the truth.

Here is a Rabbinical text about Jesus (Yeshu) from the early second century CE:

Examine the following:

BARAITHA

“The elders were once sitting in the gate when two young lads passed by; one covered his head and the other uncovered his head. Of him who uncovered his head, R. Eliezer remarked, ‘He is a bastard’; R. Joshua remarked, ‘He is the son of a niddah’; R. ‘Aḳiba said, ‘He is both a bastard and the son of a niddah’. They said to R. ‘Aḳiba, ‘How did your heart induce you to contradict the opinion of your colleagues?’ He replied, ‘I will prove it concerning him’. He went to the lad’s mother and found her sitting in the market selling beans. He said to her, ‘My daughter, if you answer the question which I will put to you, I will bring you to the World to Come’. She said to him, ‘Swear it to me’. R. ‘Aḳiba, taking the oath with his lips but annulling it in his heart, said to her, ‘What is the status of your son?’ She replied, ‘When I entered the bridal chamber, I was niddah, and my husband kept away from me, but my best man had intercourse with me, and this son was born to me’. Consequently, the child was both a bastard and the son of a niddah. It was declared, ‘R. ‘Aḳiba showed himself to be a great man when he contradicted his teachers’. At the same time, they added, ‘Blessed be the God of Israel Who revealed His secret to R. ‘Aḳiba b. Joseph’.

This text is significant because it shows how confused these attempts at defaming Yeshua’s birth story are. The Rabbis invented these lies. Rabbi Akiva lied in the story and was also praised by the other two Rabbis for deceiving and trapping the woman in the market of Zippori. When you look at all these stories supposedly about Jesus of Nazareth and see to what length the Rabbis of the 2nd century CE had to go to fight the early disciples of Yeshua, you can understand the Rabbis were under great pressure to fight and defame Yeshua and His disciples. It was an attempt to stop the growth of the early Christian movement inside Judaism.

As difficult as it is to believe the birth story of Yeshua with a virgin mother and God as His father, it is easier to accept and believe that than it is to ignore biblical truth and accept that one child has three different mothers and several different fathers. The Biblical pattern of our forefathers found in Genesis tells us that our forefathers Isaac, Jacob, Esau, and Joseph were born from mothers who were not able to give birth naturally. God had to intervene and open their wombs before they were able to give birth to Isaac, Jacob, Esau, and Joseph. The most dramatic case of birth was the creation of Adam from a lump of clay that God breathed life into, without a mother or an earthly father. A God who can create Adam from a lump of clay has no problem sowing a seed in a virgin’s womb.

The three stories of the birth of Yeshua fall apart in the face of logic and therefore are historically confusing to what the Talmudic Rabbis said (Yeshua was already seated on the right hand of the Heavenly Father a long time!) These made-up stories are all the Rabbis had at their disposal in order to keep their people away from the Roman and Byzantine churches.

The great Medieval Rabbi Rashi, one of the great Bible and Talmud commentators, realized that one person cannot have three different sets of parents who lived in different periods of time and that these stories about the birth of Yeshua in the Talmud are fake, written for the purpose of propaganda. Rabbis like Rabbi Jacob Emdin, a chief Rabbi of Germany, understood this, showed deep appreciation for Yeshua, and encouraged religious Jews to not only respect but also look at Yeshua with a different attitude than traditional European Christians did.

The rabbis who lived in Europe in the 13th and 14th centuries CE realized that the Talmudic stories about the birth of Yeshua didn’t hold water. Their determination that these stories were wrong shows integrity and fear of God, and possibly fear of Christians being angry with their Jewish neighbors for teaching such derogatory stories about Jesus.

Jewish people and orthodox Rabbis of modernity write and publish derogatory material against Yeshua and call him a bastard, all based on these false stories. The beginning of Nazi persecution of the Jewish population of Germany was in part because of these Talmudic passages about Jesus. Kristallnacht, the Night of Broken Glass, occurred on the night of November 9–10, 1938. This night witnessed the burning of books, especially Rabbinical literature, and the burning of synagogues throughout Germany. Nothing justifies such behavior as burning books and synagogues.

Yeshua in the Talmud | Netivyah

Read this article by Joseph Shulam to learn about the mentions of Yeshua in Jewish literature, contradictions in talmudic accounts and much more.

netivyah.org

 

[rosends]

That's nice.

Jewish Rabbinical literature deals with stories of the birth of Yeshua.

Those who opposed the Good News (the gospel) sought to prove that Yeshua was not born of a virgin. Rabbis in the second century worked to discredit the story of the birth of Yeshua as false so the rest of the story of Yeshua would be questioned, thereby ending Christianity. The birth of Yeshua is the point of Archimedes for the Rabbis, the pivotal point that, if undermined, destroys the whole gospel. The Rabbis had more than one story of Yeshu’s (in Rabbinical language) birth.

There are three stories related to the birth of Yeshua in the Talmudic literature. The first one is that his mother, Miriam, was a hairdresser. The second one is that his mother was Stada, the wife of Pappos, son of Yehuda. The third story is that Yeshua was the son of a Roman soldier named Pandera. All three of these stories are found in the Babylonian Talmud.

In one story, Jesus lived in the days of Rabbi Jehoshua ben Perachyah, and he was one of Rabbi Jehoshua ben Perachyah’s favored disciples. In another story in the Talmud, Jesus was a child (toddler) in the time of Rabbi Akiva, Rabbi Eliezer, and Rabbi Maier. For context, here is the chronology of these Rabbis:

Rabbi Jehoshua ben Perachyah was Nasi of the Sanhedrin and lived in the years 134–104 B.C.

Rabbi Akiva, Rabbi Maier, and Rabbi Eliezer lived at the beginning of the 2nd century A.D. Rabbi Akiva died in the year 135 A.D. and was executed by the Romans. How could Jesus be a disciple of Rabbi Jehoshua ben Perachyah and a toddler in the days of Rabbi Akiva at the same time?

We have the very same problem with the mother of Jesus. Assuming that the mother of Jesus was the wife of Pappos ben Yehuda, this man also lived in the second century A.D.

Examine the following:

Tosaphoth Shabbath 104 b:


We read that Jesus lived in the days of Rab Bibi and "Mirjam,” the women’s hairdresser. It was another (Mirjam), or the angel of death was also relating to Rab Bibi a story that happened a long, long time before. This medieval commentary on the Talmud sees these problems and concludes that the story of Jesus’s birth in the Rabbinical literature can’t be true because it is not possible that one person will have so many different mothers and fathers that lived hundreds of years apart. We see that negative anti-Christian propaganda is understood by the medieval Rabbis as impossible to the truth.

Here is a Rabbinical text about Jesus (Yeshu) from the early second century CE:

Examine the following:

BARAITHA


This text is significant because it shows how confused these attempts at defaming Yeshua’s birth story are. The Rabbis invented these lies. Rabbi Akiva lied in the story and was also praised by the other two Rabbis for deceiving and trapping the woman in the market of Zippori. When you look at all these stories supposedly about Jesus of Nazareth and see to what length the Rabbis of the 2nd century CE had to go to fight the early disciples of Yeshua, you can understand the Rabbis were under great pressure to fight and defame Yeshua and His disciples. It was an attempt to stop the growth of the early Christian movement inside Judaism.

As difficult as it is to believe the birth story of Yeshua with a virgin mother and God as His father, it is easier to accept and believe that than it is to ignore biblical truth and accept that one child has three different mothers and several different fathers. The Biblical pattern of our forefathers found in Genesis tells us that our forefathers Isaac, Jacob, Esau, and Joseph were born from mothers who were not able to give birth naturally. God had to intervene and open their wombs before they were able to give birth to Isaac, Jacob, Esau, and Joseph. The most dramatic case of birth was the creation of Adam from a lump of clay that God breathed life into, without a mother or an earthly father. A God who can create Adam from a lump of clay has no problem sowing a seed in a virgin’s womb.

The three stories of the birth of Yeshua fall apart in the face of logic and therefore are historically confusing to what the Talmudic Rabbis said (Yeshua was already seated on the right hand of the Heavenly Father a long time!) These made-up stories are all the Rabbis had at their disposal in order to keep their people away from the Roman and Byzantine churches.

The great Medieval Rabbi Rashi, one of the great Bible and Talmud commentators, realized that one person cannot have three different sets of parents who lived in different periods of time and that these stories about the birth of Yeshua in the Talmud are fake, written for the purpose of propaganda. Rabbis like Rabbi Jacob Emdin, a chief Rabbi of Germany, understood this, showed deep appreciation for Yeshua, and encouraged religious Jews to not only respect but also look at Yeshua with a different attitude than traditional European Christians did.

The rabbis who lived in Europe in the 13th and 14th centuries CE realized that the Talmudic stories about the birth of Yeshua didn’t hold water. Their determination that these stories were wrong shows integrity and fear of God, and possibly fear of Christians being angry with their Jewish neighbors for teaching such derogatory stories about Jesus.

Jewish people and orthodox Rabbis of modernity write and publish derogatory material against Yeshua and call him a bastard, all based on these false stories. The beginning of Nazi persecution of the Jewish population of Germany was in part because of these Talmudic passages about Jesus. Kristallnacht, the Night of Broken Glass, occurred on the night of November 9–10, 1938. This night witnessed the burning of books, especially Rabbinical literature, and the burning of synagogues throughout Germany. Nothing justifies such behavior as burning books and synagogues.

Yeshua in the Talmud | Netivyah

Read this article by Joseph Shulam to learn about the mentions of Yeshua in Jewish literature, contradictions in talmudic accounts and much more.

netivyah.org

You look at the stories and decide that since the details are wrong, the text is a lie. I look at the stories and draw the conclusion that the text is talking about other people. Jesus is never mentioned in the Talmud.

 

[ding]

You look at the stories and decide that since the details are wrong, the text is a lie. I look at the stories and draw the conclusion that the text is talking about other people. Jesus is never mentioned in the Talmud.

In the Talmud, Yeshua is a healer well into the second century CE.

Examine the following:

The Jerusalem Talmud Tractate Aboda Zara 40b

“His grandson (the grandson of Jehoshua ben Levi) had swallowed something. A man came and whispered to him (a spell) in the name of Jesus’ son of Pandera, and he got well. When he went out, he (Jehoshua’ ben Levi) asked him: What did you say over him? He answered according to the word of somebody. He said: What had been his fate had he died and not heard this word? And it happened to him, “as it were an error which the ruler made.” (Eccles. 10:5).”

The disciple of Yeshua answered with an intelligent answer. Like a typical Rabbinical Jew with any question asked: “What had been his fate, had he died and not heard this word?” Yeshua’s disciple is smart because he answers with a question: What would have been had I not said these words in the name of Yeshua?

This text is about an event from the 2nd century CE. A true story of the healing of a grandson of one of the great Rabbis of the Talmud. The boy is ill, and a disciple of Yeshua comes and prays for the child, and the child is healed.

This story shows that the Talmudic Rabbi who has several interludes with Yeshua, Rabbi Jehoshua ben Levi, had received the disciple of Yeshua to come and pray in Yeshua’s name for his grandson, who was healed. This is a great witness to the continuation of the power of Yeshua’s name for healing even into the second century CE. This is not the only story in the Talmud that witnesses the power of the name of Yeshua in healing the sick.

Yeshua in the Talmud | Netivyah

Read this article by Joseph Shulam to learn about the mentions of Yeshua in Jewish literature, contradictions in talmudic accounts and much more.

netivyah.org

 

[Hafar1014]

I have to say, it’s surprising how some folks here make up stuff in order to discredit Jesus being the Messiah.

Some claim that the title “Son of Man”, which Jesus preferred to use himself, does not refer to being divine. That the prophecies foretold in books such as Daniel, Isaiah, Ezekiel, etc were only referring to a normal human that would be a king.

Yet in the New Testament, at the trial of Jesus, the High Priests asked him:

"I put You under oath by the living God: Tell us if You are the Christ, the Son of God!" Jesus said to him, "It is as you said. Nevertheless, I say to you, hereafter you will see the Son of Man sitting at the right hand of the Power, and coming on the clouds of heaven." Then the high priest tore his clothes, saying, "He has spoken blasphemy! What further need do we have of witnesses? Look, now you have heard His blasphemy! What do you think?" They answered and said, "He is deserving of death."

Now here the priest asks if he is “the Christ”, which is the Messiah, and adds “the Son of God”.

If the Messiah/Christ was to be a “regular human being” and not divine, why would the priest ask this?

Then when Jesus says he is, and they will see “the Son of Man” sitting at the right hand of the Power, coming on the clouds of heaven, the priest loses his shit and tears his own clothes off and cries blasphemy. Jesus was referencing Daniel, which some folks here claim was not a real prophet. But if that was true then why did the high priest scream blasphemy about its reference then? If Daniel was just some “story” based off some ancient poem, why would the high priest lose his mind and demand Jesus be put to death?

Daniel ch7:
13 “In my vision at night I looked, and there before me was one like a son of man,[a] comingwith the clouds of heaven. He approached the Ancient of Days and was led into his presence.14 He was given authority, glory and sovereign power; all nations and peoples of every language worshiped him. His dominion is an everlasting dominion that will not pass away, and his kingdom is one that will never be destroyed.


I know reading New Testament is like burning your own eyeballs out for certain people, but can these Christ-deniers explain this paradox?

What paradox? This is all anecdotal. Its a belief. Jews dont share this belief. Thats because there is no Original sin or fall of man in Genesis. Its Gods moral teaching of man and the Trial for mans freedom. Since there is no original sin there cant be Jesus. Hes an idol created to start a new religion.

 

[Hafar1014]

Jesus? I heard he was deported back to Mexico last week

 

[ding]

Often times ignorance is insolent. St. Pio

 

[Zebra]

As a faithful practising Jew let me say Jesus is a mythical New Testament Biblical creature non-Jews invented to persecute real Jews. And it seams to be working.

original, but wrong

 

[theHawk]

What paradox? This is all anecdotal. Its a belief. Jews dont share this belief. Thats because there is no Original sin or fall of man in Genesis. Its Gods moral teaching of man and the Trial for mans freedom. Since there is no original sin there cant be Jesus. Hes an idol created to start a new religion.

^^ there it is. Yet another Jew atheist completely disregarding what a prophet said.

There is no fall of man in Genesis? How can you expect anyone to take you seriously?

 

[Hafar1014]

^^ there it is. Yet another Jew atheist completely disregarding what a prophet said.

There is no fall of man in Genesis? How can you expect anyone to take you seriously?

Simple Jews wrote it and understand what it really means. The moral teaching of man cant be defined as the fall. Its an improvement.
Gods plan is to test Adams autonomy before the lesson begins. So God says dont eat the fruit or you will die. Adam eats the fruit. Disobedience is the test of free will. Adam passes. Notice he doesnt die. He eats the fruit and acquires moral because free will must have morals. Adam is now free to reject God or choose to come to God. This is the trial for mans freedom. Adam confesses and comes to God by choice.
Since this was all Gods plan you cant sin when you obey Gods plan. Since Adam couldnt know what a sin was before he ate the fruit he cant sin. If you cant know good form bad you cant be bad.

Christians distorted this beautiful allegory and turned it into a threat. Original sin taints all of mankind believe in Jesus or youre going to hell. Jesus returns from the dead to save us. What a load of BS.

Jews wrote it we know what we meant