Zone1 A question for Jews

[rosends]

Thanks for proving my point, you completely ignore the scriptures of the Torah.

no, I just study them in the Hebrew so I know what they actually say

You don’t believe that Satan exists,

I never said that. Keep guessing.

so you have nothing in common with ancient Israelites.

They agree with me, not your twisting of ideas.

The Talmud was written hundreds of years after Jesus. How did he “quote the Talmud”?

Because your presupposition is in error.

 

[theHawk]

There is no devil in Judaism Satan means liar not devil. There is no hell in Judaism. We have Sheol where we all return to god.

The Pentateuch (the first five books of the Hebrew Bible) was likely compiled in its final form during the Babylonian exile and the Persian period, around the 6th to 5th centuries BCE, though it contains sources from much earlier periods and reflects traditions spanning centuries. While Jewish tradition and some Christian scholarship hold that Moses wrote the Pentateuch around the 15th century BCE, mainstream scholarly views suggest a more complex, multi-stage composition process over a considerable span of time.

Christians needed a devil and hell to threaten people into loyalty. So they made it up based on dualism a primitive religion like Zoroastrianism.
Lucifer is the bearer of enlightenment

I am well aware of Sheol. Every description of it in the OT is a dark and gloomy place that is down in the earth. Pretty odd that Jews believed even the righteous went to such a place and not to heaven, right?

Why is that?

Because their sins were not paid for yet. So they were trapped there until the Lamb was sacrificed. Once the Jews/Romans crucified Jesus, not knowing he was the Lamb, the sacrifice was made, Jesus descended into Sheol to free the righteous souls that were there.

Jesus described Sheol in one of his parables, how it included the “place of torment”(Hell) as well as what is often called the “Abraham’s bosom” side.

You display the typical Jewish mindset, that you are superior to all, and you can do no wrong and could never go to eternal damnation simply because you were born a Jew.

Lucifer was created as the bearer of enlightenment, but turned on God immediately when he saw a portion of the beatific vision. He was incensed that God would become incarnate through man rather than angel. His punishment was not only eternal damnation in hell, but he was split into three personalities since he wanted to be like God. Satan, the father of lies, the inversion of God the Father. Lucifer the prince of darkness, the inversion of God the Son. And Beelzebub, the inversion of the Holy Spirit.

 

[theHawk]

no, I just study them in the Hebrew so I know what they actually say

You know what they say, you just refuse to acknowledge it. You try to hide behind the Hebrew, as if we don’t accurate translations of the ancient Hebrew.

 

[theHawk]

They agree with me, not your twisting of ideas.

And you know this how?
Do you communicate with dead people?

 

[rosends]

You know what they say, you just refuse to acknowledge it. You try to hide behind the Hebrew, as if we don’t accurate translations of the ancient Hebrew.

first off, you don't. Second is that even through a good translation you still can't understand the text.

Third, there is no text in the Hebrew that describes a Satan character the way you envision one.

 

[Hafar1014]

no, I just study them in the Hebrew so I know what they actually say

I never said that. Keep guessing.

They agree with me, not your twisting of ideas.

Because your presupposition is in error.

I am well aware of Sheol. Every description of it in the OT is a dark and gloomy place that is down in the earth. Pretty odd that Jews believed even the righteous went to such a place and not to heaven, right?

Why is that?

Because their sins were not paid for yet. So they were trapped there until the Lamb was sacrificed. Once the Jews/Romans crucified Jesus, not knowing he was the Lamb, the sacrifice was made, Jesus descended into Sheol to free the righteous souls that were there.

Jesus described Sheol in one of his parables, how it included the “place of torment”(Hell) as well as what is often called the “Abraham’s bosom” side.

You display the typical Jewish mindset, that you are superior to all, and you can do no wrong and could never go to eternal damnation simply because you were born a Jew.

Lucifer was created as the bearer of enlightenment, but turned on God immediately when he saw a portion of the beatific vision. He was incensed that God would become incarnate through man rather than angel. His punishment was not only eternal damnation in hell, but he was split into three personalities since he wanted to be like God. Satan, the father of lies, the inversion of God the Father. Lucifer the prince of darkness, the inversion of God the Son. And Beelzebub, the inversion of the Holy Spirit.

You have zero understanding of Judaism. Youre applying Christian dogma to Jewish beliefs. Who cares what someone said Jesus said. After 2000 years of Christianity youre still far behind us spiritually. Primitive with a god of evil and hell. Its barbaric. Dualism based on fear. Judaism is based on faith.

 

[rosends]

And you know this how?
Do you communicate with dead people?

through their writings. How do you now otherwise, considering that you can't read the texts?

 

[Hafar1014]

You know what they say, you just refuse to acknowledge it. You try to hide behind the Hebrew, as if we don’t accurate translations of the ancient Hebrew.

I learned how to read Hebrew when I was 12. You dont have accurate translations

 

[ding]

Talmudic stories of the condemnation of Yeshua.

The following story is popular in Rabbinical Literature because it brings the condemnations of Yeshua in several different formats, and what proves interesting is that not all the versions of this story corroborate, and in a court of law, such testimonies would be immediately cast out and rejected.

Examine the following:

Babylonian Talmud Aboda Zara 16 b. And Ecclesiastes Rabba to Eccles. 1:8 (Pesaro, 1519). And in Tractate Shabbath 104 b, and in Sanhedrin 67 a

“And for all capital criminals who are mentioned in the law, they do not lay an ambush, but (they do) for this (criminal).” How do they act towards him? They light the lamp for him in the innermost part of the house, and they place witnesses for him in the exterior part of the house, that they may see him and hear his voice, though he cannot see them. And that man says to him: Tell me what you have told me when we were alone. And when he repeats (those words) to him, that man says to him: How can we abandon our God in Heaven and practice idolatry? If he returns, it is well; but when he says: Such is our duty, and so we like to have it, then the witnesses, who are listening without, bring him to the tribunal and stone him. And thus, they have done to the Son of Stada at Lod, and they hanged him on the day before Passover.”

This text, Babylonian Talmud Aboda Zara 16b, affirms that Yeshua was “hanged” on the day before the Passover. This is a detail that positions the writers of this text as knowledgeable of the gospel narratives of the crucifixion of Yeshua. The protagonist writers of this text are Talmudic Rabbis living in the 3rd to 5th centuries CE who were aware of the details of the New Testament Gospels about the crucifixion of Yeshua and affirmed it in their discussion. The question is, why are these Rabbis in such a late time dealing with this issue. One, they can’t deny what is written in the Gospels. Two, they want to show that Yeshua’s death was by due process of a Jewish legal trial.

Yeshua in the Talmud | Netivyah

Read this article by Joseph Shulam to learn about the mentions of Yeshua in Jewish literature, contradictions in talmudic accounts and much more.

netivyah.org

 

[rosends]

Talmudic stories of the condemnation of Yeshua.

The following story is popular in Rabbinical Literature because it brings the condemnations of Yeshua in several different formats, and what proves interesting is that not all the versions of this story corroborate, and in a court of law, such testimonies would be immediately cast out and rejected.

Examine the following:

Babylonian Talmud Aboda Zara 16 b. And Ecclesiastes Rabba to Eccles. 1:8 (Pesaro, 1519). And in Tractate Shabbath 104 b, and in Sanhedrin 67 a


This text, Babylonian Talmud Aboda Zara 16b, affirms that Yeshua was “hanged” on the day before the Passover. This is a detail that positions the writers of this text as knowledgeable of the gospel narratives of the crucifixion of Yeshua. The protagonist writers of this text are Talmudic Rabbis living in the 3rd to 5th centuries CE who were aware of the details of the New Testament Gospels about the crucifixion of Yeshua and affirmed it in their discussion. The question is, why are these Rabbis in such a late time dealing with this issue. One, they can’t deny what is written in the Gospels. Two, they want to show that Yeshua’s death was by due process of a Jewish legal trial.

Yeshua in the Talmud | Netivyah

Read this article by Joseph Shulam to learn about the mentions of Yeshua in Jewish literature, contradictions in talmudic accounts and much more.

netivyah.org

So this guy was hanged. Was Jesus? No. So this is talking about someone else. Was Jesus executed on the day before Passover? The Talmud in Sanhedrin gives other information about him and his family and it doesn't match Jesus. It isn't Jesus.

 

[ding]

Babylonian Talmud Tractate Sanhedrin 43a.

This is the most significant text in the Talmud dealing with the crucifixion of Yeshua outside of the Gospels. It is based on the Mishnah of Sanhedrin. The Mishnah was collected by Rabbi Judah the Nasi, the President, who lived in Zippori, the Jewish capital city in the Galilee, located about three miles from Nazareth. Rabbi Judah died in the year 210 CE. The Mishnah was finished just before the year 210 CE.

MISHNAH.

“IF THEN THEY FIND HIM INNOCENT, THEY DISCHARGE HIM; BUT IF NOT, HE GOES FORTH TO BE STONED, AND A HERALD PRECEDES HIM [CRYING]: SO, AND SO, THE SON OF SO AND SO, IS GOING FORTH TO BE STONED BECAUSE HE COMMITTED SUCH AND SUCH AN OFFENSE, AND SO AND SO ARE HIS WITNESSES. WHOEVER KNOWS ANYTHING IN HIS FAVOR, LET HIM COME AND STATE IT.”

GEMARA - Talmud

“Abaye said; It must also be announced: On such and such a day, at such and such an hour, and in such and such a place [the crime was committed], in case there are some who know [to the contrary], so that they can come forward and prove the witnesses Zomemim. AND A HERALD PRECEDES HIM. This implies, only immediately before [the execution], but not previous thereto. [In contradiction to this] it was taught: On the eve of the Passover, Yeshu the Nazarene (Deut. 18:9) was hanged. For forty days before the execution took place, a herald went forth and cried, ‘He is going forth to be stoned because he has practiced sorcery and enticed Israel to apostasy. Anyone who can say anything in his favor, let him come forward and plead on his behalf.’ But since nothing was brought forward in his favor, he was hanged on the eve of the Passover! — ’Ulla retorted: Do you suppose that he was one for whom a defense could be made? Was he not a Mesith [enticer], concerning whom Scripture says, neither shalt thou spare, neither shalt thou conceal him? With Yeshu, however, it was different, for he was connected with the government [or royalty, i.e., influential].”

What does it mean that Yeshua was connected with royalty or with the government? To which royalty was he related? The only possibility is to go to the house of David. It was unfathomable to imagine that Yeshua was related to the house of Herod. From the very beginning, Yeshua was born according to prophetic predictions in Bethlehem. Yeshua visited Jerusalem several times during the three years of his ministry, but the story of the entrance on a donkey is associated only with Yeshua’s coming with his disciples for the last Passover feast before his crucifixion, also in fulfillment of prophecy. Yeshua’s burial in a rich man’s grave is also a fulfillment of prophecy.

The text continues with a strange story about the disciples of Yeshu.

“Our Rabbis taught: Yeshu had five disciples: Matthai, Nakai, Nezer, Buni and Todah. When Matthai was brought [before the court] he said to them [the judges], Shall Matthai be executed? Is it not written, Matthai [when] shall I come and appear before God? Thereupon they retorted; Yes, Matthai shall be executed, since it is written, When Matthai [when] shall [he] die and his name perish. When Nakai was brought in, he said to them; Shall Nakai be executed? It is not written, Naki [the innocent] and the righteous slay thou not? Yes, was the answer, Nakai shall be executed, since it is written, in secret places does Naki [the innocent] slay. When Nezer was brought in, he said; Shall Nezer be executed? Is it not written, And Nezer [a twig] shall grow forth out of his roots? Yes, they said, Nezer shall be executed since it is written, but thou art cast forth away from thy grave like Nezer [an abhorred offshoot]. When Buni was brought in, he said: Shall Buni be executed? Is it not written, Beni [my son], my firstborn? Yes, they said, Buni shall be executed since it is written, Behold I will slay Bine-ka [thy son] thy firstborn, and when Todah was brought in, he said to them; Shall Todah be executed? Is it not written, A psalm for Todah [thanksgiving]? Yes, they answered, Todah shall be executed, since it is written, whoso offers the sacrifice of Todah [thanksgiving] honored me.”

One of the fascinating things about this song about five disciples of Yeshua is a pattern in ancient Talmudic and Pharisaic literature that was used to defame or reject a disciple who had left the acceptable track. The pattern had a standard example of five disciples of the great Rabbi and described how the five disciples fell into sinful or deviant lifestyles and hence were rejected by the great Rabbi that they served and followed. There is a pattern in the text above of condemnation of Yeshua and his disciples. There is a name of a disciple of Yeshua and a condemnation of that disciple. Then came the justification of the condemnation and the approval for the execution of that disciple. The text used by the accusers is, of course, a text used out of context with no direct connection with the substance of the accusation. This is a kind of Rabbinical court, and the condemnation is fabricated with a clear prejudicial use of the biblical texts. The Talmudic Rabbis go through every one of the supposed disciples of Yeshua and condemn them to death. However, this text is a polemic text that is produced as a fabrication, a fake courthouse, a fake condemnation, and a fake accusation with a fake death verdict. Contrary to the plain use of this negative propaganda, this is a paradigm that repeats itself with other cases of Rabbinical condemnation of disciples of famous Rabbis.

The story of the execution of Yeshua in The Talmud (tractate of Sanhedrin, page 43) has the Sanhedrin judging Yeshua and executing him after a trial. There are neither Romans in the story nor a cross in this Rabbinical fabrication. The story does have some interesting points that add to our understanding of how Yeshua was viewed by the Rabbis in later centuries.

An example of this pattern is found in the story of Rabban Yohanan ben Zakkai who lived in the time of Yeshua and also predicted the fall of Jerusalem and the temple 40 years before the event.

Rabban Yohanan ben Zakkai had five disciples, and they were these:

Rabbi Eliezer ben Hyrcanus, Rabbi Joshua ben Hananiah, Rabbi Yose, the priest, Rabbi Shimon ben Nethaneel, and Rabbi Eleazar ben Arach.

A specific outstanding virtue was attached to each of Rabbi Yohanan ben Zakkai’s disciples that was later turned into a negative.

Rabbi Eliezer ben Hyrcanus is a plastered cistern that loses not a drop.

Rabbi Joshua ben Hananiah, happy is the woman who gave birth to him.

Rabbi Yose, the priest, is a pious man.

Rabbi Simeon ben Nethanel is one who fears sin, and

Rabbi Eleazar ben Arach is like a spring that [ever] gathers force.

It is interesting that great Rabbis are reported in the Talmud to have five disciples, and each disciple is reported to have positive qualities that make him worthy of being a disciple of the great Rabbi. It is clear that the Talmud is following a set tradition and not a true historical reality. Rabbi Yohanan ben Zakkai had many more than five disciples; we know this from his departing from Jerusalem in a coffin, as was permitted by the Romans to take the dead out of the city for burial during the siege of the city. Rabbi Ben-Zakkai was in the coffin pretending to be dead, and his disciples accompanied him from Jerusalem to Yavne (Jamnia south of Jaffa on the road to Gaza).

Yeshua had 12 disciples, but the Talmudic Rabbis of the later centuries (4th or 5th centuries CE) had memories or even earlier texts that used this pattern of five disciples.

The text about the execution of Yeshu’s disciples is absolutely fascinating, and it reveals the five building blocks of our faith in Yeshua. Revealed through the five names of the disciples is a song of praise of Yeshua, praise for the five things that he did for us, presented as the core of the Good News.

1. Mattahi – it is a Hebrew word indicating time that translates as ”When!” - In the right time, Yeshua appeared on the stage of Israel’s history.
2. Nakai – a Hebrew word, translates as clean, not guilty, or innocent.
3. Nezer – A Hebrew word translating as "branch." Used in the following context in the Hebrew Bible: “There shall comeforth a Rod from the stem of Jesse, and a Branch shall grow out of his roots.” (Isaiah 11:1 NKJV) The word “BRANCH” in Isaiah 11 is clearly used as a messianic text! The Hebrew word for Christian is Notzri, which is from the same root as NETZER in Isaiah. So, this text clearly points to the Messiah. In this early song, we see the attributes of the Messiah, and Yeshua fulfills them all, including that he is the branch of Jesse, King David’s family. We see the same relationship in Jeremiah 23:5, “Behold, the days are coming,” says the LORD, “That I will raise to David a Branch of righteousness; A King shall reign and prosper and execute judgment and righteousness in the earth.” In this messianic text, we see a repetition of the same motif of Branch as related to King David.
4. Buni – a Hebrew word that translates as either Son or Builder. The Talmudic text here brings the verse, “My Son my First Born!” This text corresponds to “Yet I have set My King on My holy hill of Zion. I will declare the decree: The LORD has said to Me, ‘You are My Son, Today I have begotten You.’” (Psalm 2:6-7 NKJV)
5. Todah – a Hebrew word that translates as “Thank You” or “Thanksgiving”! The thanksgiving is for all of the earlier four aspects of the Messianic advent. Sacrifices of Thanksgiving were not commanded specifically, but instead were performed from a person’s free will: “And when you offer a sacrifice of thanksgiving to the LORD, offer it of your own free will.” (Leviticus 22:29 NKJV). The crucifixion of Yeshua was not something that was organized and commanded by God, but it was the free will and design of the people to deliver Yeshua to the Romans and to ask the governor Pontius Pilates to sacrifice this man, even though he didn’t understand why or for what reason but was willing to please the Pharisees for political reasons. There are two verses that are interesting in this context: Psalm 50 : 14 ”Offer to God thanksgiving, and pay your vows to the Highest. 23 Whoever offers praise glorifies Me; And to him who orders his conduct aright I will show the salvation of God.” (Psalm 50:14, 23 NKJV)

Yeshua in the Talmud | Netivyah

Read this article by Joseph Shulam to learn about the mentions of Yeshua in Jewish literature, contradictions in talmudic accounts and much more.

netivyah.org

 

[rosends]

Babylonian Talmud Tractate Sanhedrin 43a.

This is the most significant text in the Talmud dealing with the crucifixion of Yeshua outside of the Gospels. It is based on the Mishnah of Sanhedrin. The Mishnah was collected by Rabbi Judah the Nasi, the President, who lived in Zippori, the Jewish capital city in the Galilee, located about three miles from Nazareth. Rabbi Judah died in the year 210 CE. The Mishnah was finished just before the year 210 CE.

MISHNAH.


GEMARA - Talmud


What does it mean that Yeshua was connected with royalty or with the government? To which royalty was he related? The only possibility is to go to the house of David. It was unfathomable to imagine that Yeshua was related to the house of Herod. From the very beginning, Yeshua was born according to prophetic predictions in Bethlehem. Yeshua visited Jerusalem several times during the three years of his ministry, but the story of the entrance on a donkey is associated only with Yeshua’s coming with his disciples for the last Passover feast before his crucifixion, also in fulfillment of prophecy. Yeshua’s burial in a rich man’s grave is also a fulfillment of prophecy.

The text continues with a strange story about the disciples of Yeshu.


One of the fascinating things about this song about five disciples of Yeshua is a pattern in ancient Talmudic and Pharisaic literature that was used to defame or reject a disciple who had left the acceptable track. The pattern had a standard example of five disciples of the great Rabbi and described how the five disciples fell into sinful or deviant lifestyles and hence were rejected by the great Rabbi that they served and followed. There is a pattern in the text above of condemnation of Yeshua and his disciples. There is a name of a disciple of Yeshua and a condemnation of that disciple. Then came the justification of the condemnation and the approval for the execution of that disciple. The text used by the accusers is, of course, a text used out of context with no direct connection with the substance of the accusation. This is a kind of Rabbinical court, and the condemnation is fabricated with a clear prejudicial use of the biblical texts. The Talmudic Rabbis go through every one of the supposed disciples of Yeshua and condemn them to death. However, this text is a polemic text that is produced as a fabrication, a fake courthouse, a fake condemnation, and a fake accusation with a fake death verdict. Contrary to the plain use of this negative propaganda, this is a paradigm that repeats itself with other cases of Rabbinical condemnation of disciples of famous Rabbis.

The story of the execution of Yeshua in The Talmud (tractate of Sanhedrin, page 43) has the Sanhedrin judging Yeshua and executing him after a trial. There are neither Romans in the story nor a cross in this Rabbinical fabrication. The story does have some interesting points that add to our understanding of how Yeshua was viewed by the Rabbis in later centuries.

An example of this pattern is found in the story of Rabban Yohanan ben Zakkai who lived in the time of Yeshua and also predicted the fall of Jerusalem and the temple 40 years before the event.

Rabban Yohanan ben Zakkai had five disciples, and they were these:

Rabbi Eliezer ben Hyrcanus, Rabbi Joshua ben Hananiah, Rabbi Yose, the priest, Rabbi Shimon ben Nethaneel, and Rabbi Eleazar ben Arach.

A specific outstanding virtue was attached to each of Rabbi Yohanan ben Zakkai’s disciples that was later turned into a negative.

Rabbi Eliezer ben Hyrcanus is a plastered cistern that loses not a drop.

Rabbi Joshua ben Hananiah, happy is the woman who gave birth to him.

Rabbi Yose, the priest, is a pious man.

Rabbi Simeon ben Nethanel is one who fears sin, and

Rabbi Eleazar ben Arach is like a spring that [ever] gathers force.

It is interesting that great Rabbis are reported in the Talmud to have five disciples, and each disciple is reported to have positive qualities that make him worthy of being a disciple of the great Rabbi. It is clear that the Talmud is following a set tradition and not a true historical reality. Rabbi Yohanan ben Zakkai had many more than five disciples; we know this from his departing from Jerusalem in a coffin, as was permitted by the Romans to take the dead out of the city for burial during the siege of the city. Rabbi Ben-Zakkai was in the coffin pretending to be dead, and his disciples accompanied him from Jerusalem to Yavne (Jamnia south of Jaffa on the road to Gaza).

Yeshua had 12 disciples, but the Talmudic Rabbis of the later centuries (4th or 5th centuries CE) had memories or even earlier texts that used this pattern of five disciples.

The text about the execution of Yeshu’s disciples is absolutely fascinating, and it reveals the five building blocks of our faith in Yeshua. Revealed through the five names of the disciples is a song of praise of Yeshua, praise for the five things that he did for us, presented as the core of the Good News.

1. Mattahi – it is a Hebrew word indicating time that translates as ”When!” - In the right time, Yeshua appeared on the stage of Israel’s history.
2. Nakai – a Hebrew word, translates as clean, not guilty, or innocent.
3. Nezer – A Hebrew word translating as "branch." Used in the following context in the Hebrew Bible: “There shall comeforth a Rod from the stem of Jesse, and a Branch shall grow out of his roots.” (Isaiah 11:1 NKJV) The word “BRANCH” in Isaiah 11 is clearly used as a messianic text! The Hebrew word for Christian is Notzri, which is from the same root as NETZER in Isaiah. So, this text clearly points to the Messiah. In this early song, we see the attributes of the Messiah, and Yeshua fulfills them all, including that he is the branch of Jesse, King David’s family. We see the same relationship in Jeremiah 23:5, “Behold, the days are coming,” says the LORD, “That I will raise to David a Branch of righteousness; A King shall reign and prosper and execute judgment and righteousness in the earth.” In this messianic text, we see a repetition of the same motif of Branch as related to King David.
4. Buni – a Hebrew word that translates as either Son or Builder. The Talmudic text here brings the verse, “My Son my First Born!” This text corresponds to “Yet I have set My King on My holy hill of Zion. I will declare the decree: The LORD has said to Me, ‘You are My Son, Today I have begotten You.’” (Psalm 2:6-7 NKJV)
5. Todah – a Hebrew word that translates as “Thank You” or “Thanksgiving”! The thanksgiving is for all of the earlier four aspects of the Messianic advent. Sacrifices of Thanksgiving were not commanded specifically, but instead were performed from a person’s free will: “And when you offer a sacrifice of thanksgiving to the LORD, offer it of your own free will.” (Leviticus 22:29 NKJV). The crucifixion of Yeshua was not something that was organized and commanded by God, but it was the free will and design of the people to deliver Yeshua to the Romans and to ask the governor Pontius Pilates to sacrifice this man, even though he didn’t understand why or for what reason but was willing to please the Pharisees for political reasons. There are two verses that are interesting in this context: Psalm 50 : 14 ”Offer to God thanksgiving, and pay your vows to the Highest. 23 Whoever offers praise glorifies Me; And to him who orders his conduct aright I will show the salvation of God.” (Psalm 50:14, 23 NKJV)

Yeshua in the Talmud | Netivyah

Read this article by Joseph Shulam to learn about the mentions of Yeshua in Jewish literature, contradictions in talmudic accounts and much more.

netivyah.org

I guess you have abandoned trying to defend the errors and just intend to flood the thread with the contents of a different website.

 

[maj]

I never said that. Keep guessing.

Why should he guess? Why don't you just say what you believe instead of playing this game of claiming you never said something?

 

[rosends]

Why should he guess? Why don't you just say what you believe instead of playing this game of claiming you never said something?

Because I was responding to his misrepresenting what I actually and explicitly did write when I presented what I believe.

 

[maj]

Because I was responding to his misrepresenting what I actually and explicitly did write when I presented what I believe.

Okay, that totally clears it up.

 

[braalian]

What about Muslims?

The Quran mentions Jesus many, many times

 

[forkintheroad7]

Why do Jews accept the Old Testament but not the New (not Jesus)?

Jesus is just as historical as the rest of the Bible. His history is mentioned in non-Christian historians' writings.

He raised people from the dead.
He exorcised demons that His Apostles (at first) could not exorcise.
He changed water into wine
He rose from the dead (but I can kind of understand people not readily accepting that one)
He controlled nature (wind and waves)
He caused the blind to see and the deaf to hear

What more could you want from a messiah?

this is the only reason I can understand for being a Jew... uh... not hater, but disliker... lol

 

[forkintheroad7]

What about Muslims?

The Quran mentions Jesus many, many times

They don't believe He was/is God

So they really don't believe in Him, just some humanized, dishonest kind of "good person" thing

 

[rosends]

Why do Jews accept the Old Testament but not the New (not Jesus)?

Are you sincerely asking that or is this some sort of joke?

Jesus is just as historical as the rest of the Bible.

Great point! I totally accept that.

His history is mentioned in non-Christian historians' writings.

Oof. Off the rails you go.

What more could you want from a messiah?

Again, are you seriously asking or is this an extended goof?

 

[Zebra]

As a faithful practising Jew let me say Jesus is a mythical New Testament Biblical creature non-Jews invented to persecute real Jews. And it seams to be working.

do you really believe that?