A question and thoughts on race

[Ariux]

My Question is why do the have "Black, African Am., or Negro"

Black I can understand

Negro, Old racist term I thought, does not belong on the Form.

"Negro" is not a racist term. It was at one time the preferred term for Afros. Old Afros still use this term, which is why it's on the Census form. The only reason you've been told that it's racist is because you're too stupid no know better, and so that when you talk to old white people and they use the term "negro", you'll think they're racist, when they're not.

American history is like the Trayvon vs. Zimmerman story. The Afros cause the problems, whites take the blame.

 

[Foxfyre]

My Question is why do the have "Black, African Am., or Negro"

Black I can understand

Negro, Old racist term I thought, does not belong on the Form.

"Negro" is not a racist term. It was at one time the preferred term for Afros. Old Afros still use this term, which is why it's on the Census form. The only reason you've been told that it's racist is because you're too stupid no know better, and so that when you talk to old white people and they use the term "negro", you'll think they're racist, when they're not.

American history is like the Trayvon vs. Zimmerman story. The Afros cause the problems, whites take the blame.

Well that isn't right. I am guessing there are more white activists creating the problems than there are black ones.

But the point is well made. A friend of mine once told me that he had a hard time sometimes being politically correct. He went from being a '******' to 'boy' to 'colored' to 'nigra' to 'negro' and was pretty happy when he was finally referred to as 'black'. And he resented a bit when he was criticized for not specifying himself as "African American'. I haven't seen him in about 10 years though--we live in different states. Don't know how he would list his demographic group on a form now.

 

[Gremlin-USA]

My Question is why do the have "Black, African Am., or Negro"

Black I can understand

Negro, Old racist term I thought, does not belong on the Form.

"Negro" is not a racist term. It was at one time the preferred term for Afros. Old Afros still use this term, which is why it's on the Census form. The only reason you've been told that it's racist is because you're too stupid no know better, and so that when you talk to old white people and they use the term "negro", you'll think they're racist, when they're not.

OK, smart butt, go into downtown Atlanta, Detroit, etc and Holler at the top of your lungs, where are all the Negros at .... see who long you survive if you think it is not a racist term....

.

 

[Huey]

I would just cross everything out and put American,and fugg them if they dont like it.

 

[catzmeow]

So, who gets to decide if a certain group of people is a “race”? The US Census?
On this board (and others) I’ve seen people being called racists for making disparaging statements about Muslims (a religion), Jews (a religion), Mexicans (a nationality), whites, blacks or Asians (actual defined races).
Is it time to define Hispanics/Latino’s as a specific race? Why are there so many “Asian” descent races listed on the US Census? What are your thoughts in racial classification?

Actually, the system of racial categorization that we currently use was developed in 1775 by Johann Blumenbach. He posited that there are five races: Caucasoids (whites), Mongoloids (Asian), Negroid (Blacks), American Indian, and Malayan (Now called Pacific Islanders).

Hispanic refers to ethnicity, not race. There are Hispanics who are black (Afro Cubans, for instance), Hispanics who are Caucasian, and Hispanics who are mostly Native American (a lot of Mexicans are racially descended from indigenous tribes).

The Census and most other systems which track people by race use Blumenbach's five racial categories. There are as many Asian ethnicities as there are Caucasian ethnicities...

 

[del]

So, who gets to decide if a certain group of people is a “race”? The US Census?
On this board (and others) I’ve seen people being called racists for making disparaging statements about Muslims (a religion), Jews (a religion), Mexicans (a nationality), whites, blacks or Asians (actual defined races).
Is it time to define Hispanics/Latino’s as a specific race? Why are there so many “Asian” descent races listed on the US Census? What are your thoughts in racial classification?

Actually, the system of racial categorization that we currently use was developed in 1775 by Johann Blumenbach. He posited that there are five races: Caucasoids (whites), Mongoloids (Asian), Negroid (Blacks), American Indian, and Malayan (Now called Pacific Islanders).

Hispanic refers to ethnicity, not race. There are Hispanics who are black (Afro Cubans, for instance), Hispanics who are Caucasian, and Hispanics who are mostly Native American (a lot of Mexicans are racially descended from indigenous tribes).

The Census and most other systems which track people by race use Blumenbach's five racial categories. There are as many Asian ethnicities as there are Caucasian ethnicities...

who a hmong us didn't know that?

 

[Huey]

yes we are all Americans and nothing else .

 

[catzmeow]

So, who gets to decide if a certain group of people is a “race”? The US Census?
On this board (and others) I’ve seen people being called racists for making disparaging statements about Muslims (a religion), Jews (a religion), Mexicans (a nationality), whites, blacks or Asians (actual defined races).
Is it time to define Hispanics/Latino’s as a specific race? Why are there so many “Asian” descent races listed on the US Census? What are your thoughts in racial classification?

Actually, the system of racial categorization that we currently use was developed in 1775 by Johann Blumenbach. He posited that there are five races: Caucasoids (whites), Mongoloids (Asian), Negroid (Blacks), American Indian, and Malayan (Now called Pacific Islanders).

Hispanic refers to ethnicity, not race. There are Hispanics who are black (Afro Cubans, for instance), Hispanics who are Caucasian, and Hispanics who are mostly Native American (a lot of Mexicans are racially descended from indigenous tribes).

The Census and most other systems which track people by race use Blumenbach's five racial categories. There are as many Asian ethnicities as there are Caucasian ethnicities...

who a hmong us didn't know that?

Alan1?

 

[alan1]

Of course there are: European, Black, Asian, possibly but not necessarily mixed with indigenous Central or South American ancestry.

I think you are incorrect.

In the common tongue, Hispanic relates to peoples of the America's below the US and of mixed heritage consisting of Native Americans (or indigenous if you prefer) and Spaniards or Portuguese.

Then I'll leave it as I'm not familiar with any requirement of a Native American component to the heritage. This is the definition I am familiar with:


Latino (demonym) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The United States Census uses the ethnonym Hispanic or Latino, defined as "a person of Cuban, Mexican, Puerto Rican, South or Central American, or other Spanish culture or origin regardless of race."

I would say that still falls into my "common tongue" definition of mixed heritage whether or not wikipedia spells it out. The Spaniards (especially) and Portuguese were very prolific when it came to inter-mixing with the indigenous peoples of the Americas.

 

[Foxfyre]

I think you are incorrect.

In the common tongue, Hispanic relates to peoples of the America's below the US and of mixed heritage consisting of Native Americans (or indigenous if you prefer) and Spaniards or Portuguese.

Then I'll leave it as I'm not familiar with any requirement of a Native American component to the heritage. This is the definition I am familiar with:


Latino (demonym) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The United States Census uses the ethnonym Hispanic or Latino, defined as "a person of Cuban, Mexican, Puerto Rican, South or Central American, or other Spanish culture or origin regardless of race."

I would say that still falls into my "common tongue" definition of mixed heritage whether or not wikipedia spells it out. The Spaniards (especially) and Portuguese were very prolific when it came to inter-mixing with the indigenous peoples of the Americas.

Yes they were as evidenced by many of the Hispanics in my family. We have some whose ancesters trace back to the Conquistadors who began settlement of the Southwest, and most of the generations in between added on folks of Mexican heritage and Native American heritage.

 

[catzmeow]

America's below the US and of mixed heritage consisting of Native Americans (or indigenous if you prefer) and Spaniards or Portuguese.

Portugese people and people from former Portugese colonies aren't considered Hispanic in the U.S.

 

[Foxfyre]

America's below the US and of mixed heritage consisting of Native Americans (or indigenous if you prefer) and Spaniards or Portuguese.

Portugese people and people from former Portugese colonies aren't considered Hispanic in the U.S.

I hadn't thought about that, but people of Portugese or Brazilian descent don't usually refer to themselves as Hispanic do they? Yet people of most other South American countries and people of Spain do.

 

[catzmeow]

America's below the US and of mixed heritage consisting of Native Americans (or indigenous if you prefer) and Spaniards or Portuguese.

Portugese people and people from former Portugese colonies aren't considered Hispanic in the U.S.

I hadn't thought about that, but people of Portugese or Brazilian descent don't usually refer to themselves as Hispanic do they? Yet people of most other South American countries and people of Spain do.

That's because Hispanic refers to people from a SPANISH-SPEAKING country.

 

[Foxfyre]

Portugese people and people from former Portugese colonies aren't considered Hispanic in the U.S.

I hadn't thought about that, but people of Portugese or Brazilian descent don't usually refer to themselves as Hispanic do they? Yet people of most other South American countries and people of Spain do.

That's because Hispanic refers to people from a SPANISH-SPEAKING country.

Which is even more absurd since quite a large number of our New Mexican Hispanics can't speak that language, or can't do so any better than I can which means their grasp of the language is very limited.

So the language spoken now becomes a racial demographic? I wonder if anybody ever stops to really think these things through?

 

[catzmeow]

I hadn't thought about that, but people of Portugese or Brazilian descent don't usually refer to themselves as Hispanic do they? Yet people of most other South American countries and people of Spain do.

That's because Hispanic refers to people from a SPANISH-SPEAKING country.

Which is even more absurd since quite a large number of our New Mexican Hispanics can't speak that language, or can't do so any better than I can which means their grasp of the language is very limited.

So the language spoken now becomes a racial demographic? I wonder if anybody ever stops to really think these things through?

Since the term was brought into common usage in the U.S. in the past 40 years, it hasn't referred to a racial demographic. It's always been a cultural/ethnic demographic of people who are descended from former Spanish colonies.

Here's a recent study that you might enjoy reading, though: http://www.pewhispanic.org/2012/04/04/when-labels-dont-fit-hispanics-and-their-views-of-identity/

However, Hispanics often consider themselves their own race. That doesn't fit, however, with the current system of race as it is defined in the U.S.

 

[Ravi]

I’m curious as to people’s thoughts about race and racial classification. Part of my curiosity is things that I have seen on this board and in the news recently. A gazillion posts concerning George Zimmerman who has been called a “white Hispanic”, and more recently Elizabeth Warren commenting on “Indian” (Native American) heritage.

I’m not entirely sure how I should go about listing things in this post, so please forgive my random organization of my ideas and points.

I’ll start with the term “white Hispanic”. I find that an odd way to refer to a person. First of all, I’ve never heard anybody use the term “white Negro” to refer to a person of mixed ancestry that included black (African) descent in their family lineage and white Europeans. Similarly, I’ve never heard the term “white Asian” or “white Indian” (as it refers to Native Americans or people from India).
I don’t know, maybe this is because Hispanic isn’t classified as a race according to the latest US Census. (More about this later, plus a link). My understanding of the classification of Hispanic is that people of mixed ancestry – Native American and white European – resulted in what we call Hispanic or Latino (primarily Spaniards when it comes to Mexico and South America). A blend of two “races”. Yet, most people from mixed black (African) and white (European) ancestry are still considered racially “black” (African) while people of mixed Native American and European ancestry are not called Native American, they are called “Hispanic” or “Latino”, and again, not defined as a specific race.

So, let’s look at the 2010 US census.
Question 6. What is this persons race?
Here are the possible choices,
White
Black, African Am., or Negro
American Indian or Alaska Native
Asian Indian
Chinese
Filipino
Japanese
Korean
Vietnamese
Native Hawaiian
Guamanian or Chamarro
Samoan
Other Asian (option to elucidate)
Other Pacific Islander (option to elucidate)
Some other race (Print race)

Please note that Hispanic and Latino are not included (but there is a shit-ton of Asian related choices).
But wait, there was a question on the Census about Hispanic/Latino affiliation, it was question number 5, here it is….

Question 5. Is this person of Hispanic, Latino, or Spanish origin?
Here are the possible choices,
No, not of Hispanic, Latino or Spanish origin
Yes, Mexican, Mexican Am., Chicano
Yes, Puerto Rican
Yes, Cuban
Yes, another Hispanic, Latino, or Spanish origin (option to elucidate)

Link to support the above US Census questions, The 2010 Census Questionnaire: Seven Questions for Everyone - Population Reference Bureau

So, who gets to decide if a certain group of people is a “race”? The US Census?
On this board (and others) I’ve seen people being called racists for making disparaging statements about Muslims (a religion), Jews (a religion), Mexicans (a nationality), whites, blacks or Asians (actual defined races).
Is it time to define Hispanics/Latino’s as a specific race? Why are there so many “Asian” descent races listed on the US Census? What are your thoughts in racial classification?

Hispanics can choose any race from your first list. I believe the second question is an attempt to determine nationality. I know black/hispanics, white/hispanics and American indian/hispanics. No doubt there are some Asian/hispanics out there as well.

My sis in law is a white/black/native american hispanic.

 

[alan1]

That's because Hispanic refers to people from a SPANISH-SPEAKING country.

Which is even more absurd since quite a large number of our New Mexican Hispanics can't speak that language, or can't do so any better than I can which means their grasp of the language is very limited.

So the language spoken now becomes a racial demographic? I wonder if anybody ever stops to really think these things through?

Since the term was brought into common usage in the U.S. in the past 40 years, it hasn't referred to a racial demographic. It's always been a cultural/ethnic demographic of people who are descended from former Spanish colonies.

Here's a recent study that you might enjoy reading, though: When Labels Don

However, Hispanics often consider themselves their own race. That doesn't fit, however, with the current system of race as it is defined in the U.S.

That's partly why I brought this up. Do you think Hispanic should be a race classification?

 

[catzmeow]

That's partly why I brought this up. Do you think Hispanic should be a race classification?

I think that genetic research suggests that the concept of race is not a scientific one, and perhaps we should identify people by ethnicity or nation of origin. Or stop counting on the basis of race/ethnicity entirely.

I think there are many flaws with our present system. For instance, Filipinos are considered Asian, but are much closer in terms of ancestry to the Malay race (Pacific Islanders). Brazilians aren't Hispanics (they speak Portugese), but Peruvians and Columbians are. That makes zero sense. The only thing that Hispanics have in common, culturally and biologically, is the Spanish language, and many don't even speak it.

I don't necessarily consider Hispanics a race, they are too diverse, ethnically and geographically. The term is used to describe people who originated in multiple regions of multiple continents. That's not a "race."

And, if you talk to a lot of Hispanics, and I do, the Hispanics I know only consider the people from their nation of origin to be part of "their race." When Mexican-Americans and/or Mexican nationals refer to "La Raza," they aren't talking about Guatemalans and Salvadorans and Hondurans and Cubans and Dominicans. They mean PEOPLE FROM MEXICO, ONLY.

 

[Huey]

should white be classified a race? I have never seen a white person,a truly white person.These so-called whites are really pinkish,if you know what I mean.

 

[Unkotare]

Counter productive to who? I'm black first, American second.

You're not American at all, asshole.