A one time attempt to stimulate the economy does not equal "redistribution of wealth"

[slackjawed]

I think both the 'r's and the 'd's have performed in ways the get them both blame. There is more than enough to go around.
I wish people could get past the partisan politics that the current two-party system continues to perpetuate to the advantage of both of them.
The issue of government spending, and government control is non-partisan, in that it affects all citizens without regard to party or political beliefs.
What we need are real leaders, instead of the pretenders that we have had for too long.
that's my 2 cents.

notice, I am not calling anyone names, and not singling out one side over the other, everyone deserves to share in the blame, we citizens have been lazy and elected people because they might serve our own interests. The so-called leaders we elected then took advantage of their positions, while perpetuating the myth of their own self worth in the process.


Nope, what we really need are real leaders.

 

[Some Guy]

I guess this is what you tell yourself to keep your ideology alive. Instead of just saying you are greedy and don't want people in need to get help, its just easier to label them with a brush to make them sound evil. What has become so typical of conservatives, this type of dishonesty. People who support programs to help those in need does not mean they want a handout, they expect to get things in return, they blame others for their failings, since supporting this doesn't mean they want it for themselves. I

t's a pretty fantasy based view of life. All it takes in life is hard work, that's it. Forget about people who aren't born with abilities of others, who haven't had the education and resources to succeed at life, forget about the people that are injured, become ill, have things beyond their control happen to them to put them in a bad situation. Forget that there are indeed not too intelligent people and ones that are easily manipulated, should one mistake mean they starve and die, in such a rich country? Or that there are plenty of people out there misleading and taking advantage of people. Yeah, forget all the real complex things in life that all contribute to positions people are in. Let's just pretend its a fantasy where "work hard, that's all it takes". Probably all while ignoring things you've had happen in your life that helped you be in a position of success.

You'll be awfully hard pressed to find someone who doesn't want to help someone in need. The problem comes where certain people are basically forced to carry others though exorbitant taxes, etc.

Take unemployment for example. I'm sure there a lot of good people on unemployment who really need it as a ways to keep them afloat while they look for another job. Then i'm sure there a lot of people on unemployment who use it as a means to basically lay back and do nothing since they're comfortable enough with the money they get from it. Those are the ones that are the problem.

No need to go around thinking that just because someone says "i don't like to be forced to pay for someone to sit on their ass" means they want everyone to die in the streets, it means just what they said.

The problem becomes how to enforce this; how do you really tell between someone who's on welfare or unemployment who truly wants to get off of it versus someone who's more than happy making due with collecting someone else's money through the government? I definitely don't have an answer on that, but at the same time, i don't see how extending unemployment benefits out to 99 weeks encourages anyone to work harder to become a more valuable member of society.

 

[beowolfe]

Conservatives sign mortgage applications just like everybody else. Conservatives sign credit card contracts just like everybody else.

The difference is, we blame ourselves for not reading them well enough if we get screwed over.

Seems liberals like to blame those that wrote the applications and contracts.

Personal responsibility.

I'm posting two links. One is to the December 2008 electoral map (red state - blue state). The other is a map showing foreclosures. As you can see from the map, red states (ie conservatives) have just as much a problem with forclosures as anyone else save florida and calilfornia (and florida had been a red state in the 04 election).


Election maps

Where does your state rank? - CNNMoney.com


So before you try to claim that conservatives were a whole lot smarter than liberals when it came to mortgages, you may just want to take a look. Now, if you have more precise data, I'm all eyes.

You realize your post isn't at all responsive to the one you're responding to, right?

Ahhh but it is. You're claiming that conservatives simply accepted the fact that they screwed up with their mortgages. I'm showing you the states with forclosures. Some of those forclosures are in 'blue states' where congresspeople complained as you indicted above. I'm trying to show you through those maps that you don't know if those complaints represented liberal constituents or conservative constituents. You're attempting to draw a conclusion based on assuumptions, incomplete data, and general prejudices.

 

[beowolfe]

I think both the 'r's and the 'd's have performed in ways the get them both blame. There is more than enough to go around.
I wish people could get past the partisan politics that the current two-party system continues to perpetuate to the advantage of both of them.
The issue of government spending, and government control is non-partisan, in that it affects all citizens without regard to party or political beliefs.
What we need are real leaders, instead of the pretenders that we have had for too long.
that's my 2 cents.

notice, I am not calling anyone names, and not singling out one side over the other, everyone deserves to share in the blame, we citizens have been lazy and elected people because they might serve our own interests. The so-called leaders we elected then took advantage of their positions, while perpetuating the myth of their own self worth in the process.


Nope, what we really need are real leaders.

That's the hard part. American are not monolithic in their thinking about the size of government. And as we've discovered, a lot of Americans only worry about the size of government when they party they support is out of power. IMO, our problem isn't at the government level, it's at the citizen level.

 

[Dr Gregg]

I guess this is what you tell yourself to keep your ideology alive. Instead of just saying you are greedy and don't want people in need to get help, its just easier to label them with a brush to make them sound evil. What has become so typical of conservatives, this type of dishonesty. People who support programs to help those in need does not mean they want a handout, they expect to get things in return, they blame others for their failings, since supporting this doesn't mean they want it for themselves. I

t's a pretty fantasy based view of life. All it takes in life is hard work, that's it. Forget about people who aren't born with abilities of others, who haven't had the education and resources to succeed at life, forget about the people that are injured, become ill, have things beyond their control happen to them to put them in a bad situation. Forget that there are indeed not too intelligent people and ones that are easily manipulated, should one mistake mean they starve and die, in such a rich country? Or that there are plenty of people out there misleading and taking advantage of people. Yeah, forget all the real complex things in life that all contribute to positions people are in. Let's just pretend its a fantasy where "work hard, that's all it takes". Probably all while ignoring things you've had happen in your life that helped you be in a position of success.

You'll be awfully hard pressed to find someone who doesn't want to help someone in need. The problem comes where certain people are basically forced to carry others though exorbitant taxes, etc.

Take unemployment for example. I'm sure there a lot of good people on unemployment who really need it as a ways to keep them afloat while they look for another job. Then i'm sure there a lot of people on unemployment who use it as a means to basically lay back and do nothing since they're comfortable enough with the money they get from it. Those are the ones that are the problem.

No need to go around thinking that just because someone says "i don't like to be forced to pay for someone to sit on their ass" means they want everyone to die in the streets, it means just what they said.

The problem becomes how to enforce this; how do you really tell between someone who's on welfare or unemployment who truly wants to get off of it versus someone who's more than happy making due with collecting someone else's money through the government? I definitely don't have an answer on that, but at the same time, i don't see how extending unemployment benefits out to 99 weeks encourages anyone to work harder to become a more valuable member of society.

OK, that was a stupid generalization on my part, but you do often hear people demonizing the poor, like anybody who supports or gets assistance must be lazy and want to work for nothing. If those people cared about other people, why would they call them lazy and say bad things about them. It's a common argument seen in threads mentioning these types of programs.

 

[☭proletarian☭]

Saying that the stimulus was a success because things didnt go to hell is like saying the operation was a success but the patient died.

Bad analogy. Saying the stimulus was a success because things didn't go to hell is like saying the operation was a success because the patient didn't die. (That's a more correct analogy).

-and failing to mention that the operation consisted of closing the patient's aorta with a piece of the femoral artery and you've left the femoral artery severed and the patient is still bleeding to death.

 

[beowolfe]

Saying that the stimulus was a success because things didnt go to hell is like saying the operation was a success but the patient died.

Bad analogy. Saying the stimulus was a success because things didn't go to hell is like saying the operation was a success because the patient didn't die. (That's a more correct analogy).

-and failing to mention that the operation consisted of closing the patient's aorta with a piece of the femoral artery and you've left the femoral artery severed and the patient is still bleeding to death.

That wasn't the problem with you analogy.

 

[☭proletarian☭]

Bad analogy. Saying the stimulus was a success because things didn't go to hell is like saying the operation was a success because the patient didn't die. (That's a more correct analogy).

-and failing to mention that the operation consisted of closing the patient's aorta with a piece of the femoral artery and you've left the femoral artery severed and the patient is still bleeding to death.

That wasn't the problem with you analogy.

Huh? What's that boy?


I think Lassie's trying to tell us something

 

[DiamondDave]

Are you saying that no matter how bad a POTUS goes against the wishes of conservatives, you'll still vote for them rather than vote for a Democrat? Well, you're getting your 'just desserts' if that's the case. GOP supporters should take a page from the Democratic supporters, they don't vote for a Dem the second time if he did things on that large a scale that they were against. Even if it means replacing a Democrat with a Republican. It's called putting 'country first'.

Nice attempt to put words into my mouth... that's not going to be allowed to fly there sparky

I said that Kerry was an even worse choice... did not say that if the opposition would have put out a candidate that was not worse or that I agreed with more, that I would inherently vote against the DEMs

Kerry worse? In what way?

Stances on the military and then current military situation
Stances on taxation and massive entitlements
Voting record (yes, I check that with elected officials) John Kerry on the Issues
Dishonest (and I'm not focusing on Vietnam... look at the various statements on taxation, trying to be sneaky in how it was worded to fool the gullible)

I would have seriously thought about voting for a credible moderate DEM that did not go against my strongest core beliefs.. .Kerry was not even close to being that

 

[Annie]

Now, if every year Obama and the dems pass a stimulus package, you may have a point. But this was a one time thing to try and overcome a horrible economy. so why the insistence on claiming Obama's going to turn the country entirely socialist, or that he's for redistrubuction of wealth, when for decades wealthy people paid a higher percentage in taxes, and occurred under both parties.

That's yet another example of partisan hackery dishonesty. You can make points without resorting to that bullshit, or can the ones that make those claims actually put forth an intelligent argument?

What news do you watch?
Do you truly not hear his vision? Do you not hear what his appointed advisors say? Do you truly not know that his goal is to expand the middle class at the expense of the evil rich greedy upper class?

Call it what you want.....but raising the taxes on the wealthiest 5% and giving things to the lower classes...much for free...is redistribution of wealth.

I again ask...what news do you watch? I mean, it is not like he and his people hide the fact that they want to redistribute wealth...they are wide open about it.

Or do you have trouble understanding things when the exact term "redistribute wealth" is not used? I guess it is folks like you that he counts on....hear what he says, think he is saying something different...but when he is called on it he says "look at the transcript"....

LMAO....he needs people like you.

has that not been what's happend under any politician for decades? THe rich paying more in taxes, since they make so much money?

You guys are so stuck on your ideology that you don't see how impractical it is the make people making shit money, who can barely get by, to pay the same percentage of taxes as those living lush lives, who've also likely benefitted the most of all the gov't does. THe infrastgructure, the education, having educated and skilled workforce to employ, having a strong and stable infrastructure and justice system to allow them to do business the way they do.

I'll be more than happy to pay a higher percentage in taxes than somoen making 30K a year, to be making a hell of a lot more, and can't wait for the day I pay more, meaning Im making more and living much better.

About 11 percent of the federal budget in 2008, or $313 billion, supported programs that provide aid (other than health insurance or Social Security benefits) to individuals and families facing hardship.

Policy Basics: Where Do Our Federal Tax Dollars Go? — Center on Budget and Policy Priorities

So your op was just Bull Shi*. Those that disagree with facts, are just evil doers, not wonderful, generous, and altruistic like you!

Why didn't you say that in the first place, instead of the BS?

 

[hboats]

I guess this is what you tell yourself to keep your ideology alive. Instead of just saying you are greedy and don't want people in need to get help, its just easier to label them with a brush to make them sound evil. What has become so typical of conservatives, this type of dishonesty. People who support programs to help those in need does not mean they want a handout, they expect to get things in return, they blame others for their failings, since supporting this doesn't mean they want it for themselves. I

t's a pretty fantasy based view of life. All it takes in life is hard work, that's it. Forget about people who aren't born with abilities of others, who haven't had the education and resources to succeed at life, forget about the people that are injured, become ill, have things beyond their control happen to them to put them in a bad situation. Forget that there are indeed not too intelligent people and ones that are easily manipulated, should one mistake mean they starve and die, in such a rich country? Or that there are plenty of people out there misleading and taking advantage of people. Yeah, forget all the real complex things in life that all contribute to positions people are in. Let's just pretend its a fantasy where "work hard, that's all it takes". Probably all while ignoring things you've had happen in your life that helped you be in a position of success.

You'll be awfully hard pressed to find someone who doesn't want to help someone in need. The problem comes where certain people are basically forced to carry others though exorbitant taxes, etc.

Take unemployment for example. I'm sure there a lot of good people on unemployment who really need it as a ways to keep them afloat while they look for another job. Then i'm sure there a lot of people on unemployment who use it as a means to basically lay back and do nothing since they're comfortable enough with the money they get from it. Those are the ones that are the problem.

No need to go around thinking that just because someone says "i don't like to be forced to pay for someone to sit on their ass" means they want everyone to die in the streets, it means just what they said.

The problem becomes how to enforce this; how do you really tell between someone who's on welfare or unemployment who truly wants to get off of it versus someone who's more than happy making due with collecting someone else's money through the government? I definitely don't have an answer on that, but at the same time, i don't see how extending unemployment benefits out to 99 weeks encourages anyone to work harder to become a more valuable member of society.

Thank you. I tried to say the same thing, but I think you said it a lot better than I did or could.

Rick

 

[Dr Gregg]

What news do you watch?
Do you truly not hear his vision? Do you not hear what his appointed advisors say? Do you truly not know that his goal is to expand the middle class at the expense of the evil rich greedy upper class?

Call it what you want.....but raising the taxes on the wealthiest 5% and giving things to the lower classes...much for free...is redistribution of wealth.

I again ask...what news do you watch? I mean, it is not like he and his people hide the fact that they want to redistribute wealth...they are wide open about it.

Or do you have trouble understanding things when the exact term "redistribute wealth" is not used? I guess it is folks like you that he counts on....hear what he says, think he is saying something different...but when he is called on it he says "look at the transcript"....

LMAO....he needs people like you.

has that not been what's happend under any politician for decades? THe rich paying more in taxes, since they make so much money?

You guys are so stuck on your ideology that you don't see how impractical it is the make people making shit money, who can barely get by, to pay the same percentage of taxes as those living lush lives, who've also likely benefitted the most of all the gov't does. THe infrastgructure, the education, having educated and skilled workforce to employ, having a strong and stable infrastructure and justice system to allow them to do business the way they do.

I'll be more than happy to pay a higher percentage in taxes than somoen making 30K a year, to be making a hell of a lot more, and can't wait for the day I pay more, meaning Im making more and living much better.

About 11 percent of the federal budget in 2008, or $313 billion, supported programs that provide aid (other than health insurance or Social Security benefits) to individuals and families facing hardship.

Policy Basics: Where Do Our Federal Tax Dollars Go? — Center on Budget and Policy Priorities

So your op was just Bull Shi*. Those that disagree with facts, are just evil doers, not wonderful, generous, and altruistic like you!

Why didn't you say that in the first place, instead of the BS?

would you care to give your opinion and reasoning on the matter and address anything I said, or just play the attack card and ignore everything mentioned and make up what I'm thinking? do you even have any? Have you ever though of the ramifications of a flat tax, what that would have on the poor lower percentage of income earners? Would that even give us enough money to run the gov't?

 

[Annie]

has that not been what's happend under any politician for decades? THe rich paying more in taxes, since they make so much money?

You guys are so stuck on your ideology that you don't see how impractical it is the make people making shit money, who can barely get by, to pay the same percentage of taxes as those living lush lives, who've also likely benefitted the most of all the gov't does. THe infrastgructure, the education, having educated and skilled workforce to employ, having a strong and stable infrastructure and justice system to allow them to do business the way they do.

I'll be more than happy to pay a higher percentage in taxes than somoen making 30K a year, to be making a hell of a lot more, and can't wait for the day I pay more, meaning Im making more and living much better.


Policy Basics: Where Do Our Federal Tax Dollars Go? — Center on Budget and Policy Priorities

So your op was just Bull Shi*. Those that disagree with facts, are just evil doers, not wonderful, generous, and altruistic like you!

Why didn't you say that in the first place, instead of the BS?

would you care to give your opinion and reasoning on the matter and address anything I said, or just play the attack card and ignore everything mentioned and make up what I'm thinking? do you even have any? Have you ever though of the ramifications of a flat tax, what that would have on the poor lower percentage of income earners? Would that even give us enough money to run the gov't?

Did you read your original post? Took about 7 replies before you changed your own subject. Try again.

 

[skookerasbil]

Now, if every year Obama and the dems pass a stimulus package, you may have a point. But this was a one time thing to try and overcome a horrible economy. so why the insistence on claiming Obama's going to turn the country entirely socialist, or that he's for redistrubuction of wealth, when for decades wealthy people paid a higher percentage in taxes, and occurred under both parties.

That's yet another example of partisan hackery dishonesty. You can make points without resorting to that bullshit, or can the ones that make those claims actually put forth an intelligent argument?

yeah...........but heres the problem...........

A vast majority of the American population think your rant is a line of bs s0n!!! THATS all that matters...........


go google "simulus" and "poll" you fcukking bozo.........its viewed as an abject failure Thats what happens when you support a close to trillion dollar jobs bill and it creates about 65 jobs.

 

[skookerasbil]

Oh.......ps...........did I mention.............a new low in job approval for Obama as of today!!!!

fcukking w00t................

Every time this Wizard of Oz opens his mouth these days, the poll #s dive deeper south................FTMFW!!!!

Hey.........how much stinkin' fun is Photobucket these days if you're a conservative???!!!!!

 

[Dr Gregg]

So your op was just Bull Shi*. Those that disagree with facts, are just evil doers, not wonderful, generous, and altruistic like you!

Why didn't you say that in the first place, instead of the BS?

would you care to give your opinion and reasoning on the matter and address anything I said, or just play the attack card and ignore everything mentioned and make up what I'm thinking? do you even have any? Have you ever though of the ramifications of a flat tax, what that would have on the poor lower percentage of income earners? Would that even give us enough money to run the gov't?

Did you read your original post? Took about 7 replies before you changed your own subject. Try again.

First time on a forum, I"m responding to other people responses, and holy shit, topics often go off into other relms besides what specifically is in the OP.

Nothing to add? Great, then why are you here?

 

[Dr Gregg]

Now, if every year Obama and the dems pass a stimulus package, you may have a point. But this was a one time thing to try and overcome a horrible economy. so why the insistence on claiming Obama's going to turn the country entirely socialist, or that he's for redistrubuction of wealth, when for decades wealthy people paid a higher percentage in taxes, and occurred under both parties.

That's yet another example of partisan hackery dishonesty. You can make points without resorting to that bullshit, or can the ones that make those claims actually put forth an intelligent argument?

yeah...........but heres the problem...........

A vast majority of the American population think your rant is a line of bs s0n!!! THATS all that matters...........


go google "simulus" and "poll" you fcukking bozo.........its viewed as an abject failure Thats what happens when you support a close to trillion dollar jobs bill and it creates about 65 jobs.

Yes, another genius who shows how intelligent and informed they are. How you guys do this without being embarrassed is beyond me

 

[Annie]

would you care to give your opinion and reasoning on the matter and address anything I said, or just play the attack card and ignore everything mentioned and make up what I'm thinking? do you even have any? Have you ever though of the ramifications of a flat tax, what that would have on the poor lower percentage of income earners? Would that even give us enough money to run the gov't?

Did you read your original post? Took about 7 replies before you changed your own subject. Try again.

First time on a forum, I"m responding to other people responses, and holy shit, topics often go off into other relms besides what specifically is in the OP.

Nothing to add? Great, then why are you here?

All the posts on first page were directed towards your op,YOU changed the subject. Why? Well, because it was ill formed and bait, to which your perceived inferiors did not rise to. D. G. You are a worthless tool, not even a useful fool.

 

[Cuyo]

Now, if every year Obama and the dems pass a stimulus package, you may have a point. But this was a one time thing to try and overcome a horrible economy. so why the insistence on claiming Obama's going to turn the country entirely socialist, or that he's for redistrubuction of wealth, when for decades wealthy people paid a higher percentage in taxes, and occurred under both parties.

That's yet another example of partisan hackery dishonesty. You can make points without resorting to that bullshit, or can the ones that make those claims actually put forth an intelligent argument?

yeah...........but heres the problem...........

A vast majority of the American population think your rant is a line of bs s0n!!! THATS all that matters...........


go google "simulus" and "poll" you fcukking bozo.........its viewed as an abject failure Thats what happens when you support a close to trillion dollar jobs bill and it creates about 65 jobs.

Yes, another genius who shows how intelligent and informed they are. How you guys do this without being embarrassed is beyond me

But Gregg he calls everyone "son" and uses a zero instead of a regular o, s0n! That's gotta count for something, right?

 

[Dr Gregg]

Did you read your original post? Took about 7 replies before you changed your own subject. Try again.

First time on a forum, I"m responding to other people responses, and holy shit, topics often go off into other relms besides what specifically is in the OP.

Nothing to add? Great, then why are you here?

All the posts on first page were directed towards your op,YOU changed the subject. Why? Well, because it was ill formed and bait, to which your perceived inferiors did not rise to. D. G. You are a worthless tool, not even a useful fool.

then what are you if you can't even put forth anything relevant to the thread?