A one time attempt to stimulate the economy does not equal "redistribution of wealth"

[beowolfe]

The GOP does not represent conservatives...but certainly are a better bet for us than the Democratic party.

Yeah...we do think. I know...tough to accept.....but we think....as a matter of fact a good example is..

"We think before we sign"

Seems liberals most certainly sympathise with those that dont think before they sign...

Interesting....no?

Since the GOP doesn't represent conservatives and we have basically a two party system, there wouldn't be anything for conservatives to sign.....right?

Conservatives sign mortgage applications just like everybody else. Conservatives sign credit card contracts just like everybody else.

The difference is, we blame ourselves for not reading them well enough if we get screwed over.

Seems liberals like to blame those that wrote the applications and contracts.

Personal responsibility.

Are you arguing that there were no conservatives involved in the foreclosure crisis? I have yet to see any data on the forclosure crisis that indicated the political leanings of those who were foreclosed. Have you?

 

[Zoom-boing]

Try discerning Diamond Dave? how about posting here instead of commenting in a neg rep, so everybody can see? Umm, I don't think the morons that rant and rave about Obama even know what they are arguing, just blasting him because they are stupid partisan hacks. Maybe you people should make it clear, cause its hard to see a point through all the rants and childish name calling of Obama.

No...you see....your problem is when we post something, if you dont agree with it, you refer to us as a partisan hack.....so you dont even consider what we are saying.

Bottom line is this Doc....

As a conservative I understand the way a liberal thinks. I respect that a liberal wants what a liberal wants. I disagree with it, but I understand it....and most importantly, I have reason to disagree.

Yes, I wish we could take all of the poor and make them comfortable. But the only way to do that is to give up all of the reasons this is called the land of opportunity. I do not mind paying extra in taxes to releive their pain. That is my responsibility as an American. But I do NOT agree with taking my money to make them comfortable. It is not in the best interest of America as it was designed and it is not in the best interest of the poor.......why?

Simple.

Becuase Americans do what they gotta do to get by. Being uncomfortable is motivation enough to do what you gotta do. Take away the discomfort, and you lose the motivation.

But Americans do what they gotta do.

However, you and many other liberals refuse to see it our way. You certainly can disagree with it....but you ridicule us for our thinking. You say we have no compassion...you say we are immoral...you say we are selfish.

Get a grip Doc. We are all Americans and we all see what is best for Americans....and we all have different ways to acheive it.

Your way is "give"....our way is "earn"...both have their positive sides and both have their negative sides.

Now go ahead...curse me out like you usually do.

Well said!

 

[☭proletarian☭]

First, your pemise that none of the stimulus bills have worked is contrary to the evidence that's out there.

I can start a business selling dirt and pay my employees of a credit card and then take a 'cash withdrawal' from that credit card and go buy a bunch of crap I don't need.


Have I fixed the economy? No, I've fucking made shit worse.


That's exactly what obama's done by inflating the monetary supply to use wealth that doesn't' exist to pay for projects for which there are not sufficient resources.

Go to your local library and ask for an idiot's introduction to the credit cycle, monetary inflation, and Austrian intelligence. Get your head out of the sand, take Keynes' dick out of your ass, and try using your fucking brain.

Second...Obama didn't pass anything, the congress did. Obama signed off on what congress passed.

Ergo he also approved it. The alternative it called a 'veto'. He also campaigned for it and argued in favour of it.

But I don't think that presenting facts to you will do anything.

You're spouting GOP talking points.

You keep spouting DNC talking points and long-debunked Keynesian mythology. I swear, it's like a religion.

 

[Dr Gregg]

The GOP does not represent conservatives...but certainly are a better bet for us than the Democratic party.

Yeah...we do think. I know...tough to accept.....but we think....as a matter of fact a good example is..

"We think before we sign"

Seems liberals most certainly sympathise with those that dont think before they sign...

Interesting....no?

Since the GOP doesn't represent conservatives and we have basically a two party system, there wouldn't be anything for conservatives to sign.....right?

Conservatives sign mortgage applications just like everybody else. Conservatives sign credit card contracts just like everybody else.

The difference is, we blame ourselves for not reading them well enough if we get screwed over.

Seems liberals like to blame those that wrote the applications and contracts.

Personal responsibility.

I guess this is what you tell yourself to keep your ideology alive. Instead of just saying you are greedy and don't want people in need to get help, its just easier to label them with a brush to make them sound evil. What has become so typical of conservatives, this type of dishonesty. People who support programs to help those in need does not mean they want a handout, they expect to get things in return, they blame others for their failings, since supporting this doesn't mean they want it for themselves. I

t's a pretty fantasy based view of life. All it takes in life is hard work, that's it. Forget about people who aren't born with abilities of others, who haven't had the education and resources to succeed at life, forget about the people that are injured, become ill, have things beyond their control happen to them to put them in a bad situation. Forget that there are indeed not too intelligent people and ones that are easily manipulated, should one mistake mean they starve and die, in such a rich country? Or that there are plenty of people out there misleading and taking advantage of people. Yeah, forget all the real complex things in life that all contribute to positions people are in. Let's just pretend its a fantasy where "work hard, that's all it takes". Probably all while ignoring things you've had happen in your life that helped you be in a position of success.

 

[hboats]

Pinnochio is at it again. It's when people post obviously stupid shit, and clearly false bullshit and talking points. But play the persecution card, pretty pathetic, and dishonest as usual.

You truly can not be serious with this response to my thread.
I mean....really?
Jeez...you are a whacko....and I have had it with you and your crap......so long dickhead......on ignore....I have better things to do with my time than try to explain why conservatives think as they do.

ANd you refer to me as a liar...why? Because you cant reach back and understand why others think as they do?

Pathetic.

Oh, look who's name calling now. Thanks yet again, for showing that you are truly a delusional partisan hack, yet you continue to act like you are mature, smart and putting forth rationale argument.s Only thing you have is the ability to more quaintly spout your bullshit than many of the other posters.

Yeah, best ignore me because I keep showing what a full of shit, hypocrite phony you are. Please ignore me, won't have you going around harrassing me with your bullshit. WHy don't you take the rest of the trolls with you.

Someone posts a well thought out response to you and tries to pull you into a debate/conversation and you reply

Pinnochio is at it again. It's when people post obviously stupid shit, and clearly false bullshit and talking points. But play the persecution card, pretty pathetic, and dishonest as usual.

And then complain that he's calling you names in a subsequent post? And you're calling everyone else hacks and trolls? Why not try to discuss instead of just calling everyone who doesn't agree with you a liar and resorting to calling names?

Honest questions, but don't worry, I don't expect any kind of honest response.

Rick

 

[The Rabbi]

First, your pemise that none of the stimulus bills have worked is contrary to the evidence that's out there. Second...Obama didn't pass anything, the congress did. Obama signed off on what congress passed. But I don't think that presenting facts to you will do anything. You're spouting GOP talking points. As for no-one reading the stimulus bill, heck I read it. So, if some congressperson didn't read it, it's because they chose not to read it and I don't think you can blame anyone for that except those congresspeople.

the evidence is that the stimulus bill(s) has failed. It did not do what the administration claimed. It boosted the deficit to historic highs. And the result has been unemployment that we have not seen in 30 years.
Obama called for this bill. Obama pushed this bill. It is Obama's bill, regardless of who actually passed it.
Read the stimulus bill? Ask John Conyers:
Video: Democrat John Conyers: Read the bill? Why bother | The Lonely Conservative

And I doubt whether very many of the buffoons in Congress have read the healthcare bill or understand it if they have. I know Obama hasn't.

An economic stimulus is an effort by the goverment to pump money into an ailing economy, whether through spending, tax cuts or interest rate reductions. By replacing money not being spent by businesses or consumers, a stimulus is meant to put a floor under a recession and pave the way for a return to growth.

Has the economy continued to fall off a cliff? Seems to me the stimulus bill was successful in it's purpose. With the exception of employment, most other economic indicators say the downward economic spiral has stopped.

Obama inherited the largest deficit in history. Everyone knew that the $787 billion was 'on top of that'. If you didn't........well.....

As for Conyers, you'll have to blame him for not reading it. But that still doesn't say that 'no one' read it. Even some congress people and/or their staff read it. Despite everything you've said........you've still offered zero evidence that the stimulus bill has failed. Now you're free to believe whatever you wish, but you're not free to invent facts that are contrary to reality.

The economy has only so far it can go in the natural course of things. It did that. Saying that the stimulus was a success because things didnt go to hell is like saying the operation was a success but the patient died.
Obama promised that the stimulus would arrest the loss of jobs. It did not. But it did suppress job creation. I saw that job loss in the 2001 recession was more severe but unemployment didnt go anywhere near where it is now because job creation kept up. Not this time.
Obama inherited the largest deficit. And promptly made it worse. He inherited a bad economic policy. And made it worse. He has spent more money on "stimulus" than any other president. And the economy has given the weakest response ever.

And Proletarian agrees with me. So you know I'm right.

 

[Dr Gregg]

You truly can not be serious with this response to my thread.
I mean....really?
Jeez...you are a whacko....and I have had it with you and your crap......so long dickhead......on ignore....I have better things to do with my time than try to explain why conservatives think as they do.

ANd you refer to me as a liar...why? Because you cant reach back and understand why others think as they do?

Pathetic.

Oh, look who's name calling now. Thanks yet again, for showing that you are truly a delusional partisan hack, yet you continue to act like you are mature, smart and putting forth rationale argument.s Only thing you have is the ability to more quaintly spout your bullshit than many of the other posters.

Yeah, best ignore me because I keep showing what a full of shit, hypocrite phony you are. Please ignore me, won't have you going around harrassing me with your bullshit. WHy don't you take the rest of the trolls with you.

Someone posts a well thought out response to you and tries to pull you into a debate/conversation and you reply

Pinnochio is at it again. It's when people post obviously stupid shit, and clearly false bullshit and talking points. But play the persecution card, pretty pathetic, and dishonest as usual.

And then complain that he's calling you names in a subsequent post? And you're calling everyone else hacks and trolls? Why not try to discuss instead of just calling everyone who doesn't agree with you a liar and resorting to calling names?

Honest questions, but don't worry, I don't expect any kind of honest response.

Rick

reading comprehension, holy shit you people just like making shit up. I'm pointing out his hypocrisy, not complaining about him calling me name

If you can't see that, than fuck off and don't respond to me, you truly are retarded, especially if you haven't seen many of my posts where I do discuss things. Take your head out of your ass once, or get a life instead of trying to instigate shit

I/ve tried discussing with the people I call out,, they don't care about discussing, they just like the rant and spout stupid, non factual shit

 

[☭proletarian☭]

And Proletarian agrees with me. So you know I'm right.

I nominate this for the greatest appeal to authority ever

 

[beowolfe]

The GOP does not represent conservatives...but certainly are a better bet for us than the Democratic party.

Yeah...we do think. I know...tough to accept.....but we think....as a matter of fact a good example is..

"We think before we sign"

Seems liberals most certainly sympathise with those that dont think before they sign...

Interesting....no?

Since the GOP doesn't represent conservatives and we have basically a two party system, there wouldn't be anything for conservatives to sign.....right?

Conservatives sign mortgage applications just like everybody else. Conservatives sign credit card contracts just like everybody else.

The difference is, we blame ourselves for not reading them well enough if we get screwed over.

Seems liberals like to blame those that wrote the applications and contracts.

Personal responsibility.

I'm posting two links. One is to the December 2008 electoral map (red state - blue state). The other is a map showing foreclosures. As you can see from the map, red states (ie conservatives) have just as much a problem with forclosures as anyone else save florida and calilfornia (and florida had been a red state in the 04 election).


Election maps

Where does your state rank? - CNNMoney.com


So before you try to claim that conservatives were a whole lot smarter than liberals when it came to mortgages, you may just want to take a look. Now, if you have more precise data, I'm all eyes.

 

[hboats]

I guess this is what you tell yourself to keep your ideology alive. Instead of just saying you are greedy and don't want people in need to get help, its just easier to label them with a brush to make them sound evil. What has become so typical of conservatives, this type of dishonesty. People who support programs to help those in need does not mean they want a handout, they expect to get things in return, they blame others for their failings, since supporting this doesn't mean they want it for themselves. I

t's a pretty fantasy based view of life. All it takes in life is hard work, that's it. Forget about people who aren't born with abilities of others, who haven't had the education and resources to succeed at life, forget about the people that are injured, become ill, have things beyond their control happen to them to put them in a bad situation. Forget that there are indeed not too intelligent people and ones that are easily manipulated, should one mistake mean they starve and die, in such a rich country? Or that there are plenty of people out there misleading and taking advantage of people. Yeah, forget all the real complex things in life that all contribute to positions people are in. Let's just pretend its a fantasy where "work hard, that's all it takes". Probably all while ignoring things you've had happen in your life that helped you be in a position of success.

I don't have a problem with helping out people who need help. I do it all the time with giving to charities and helping at soup kitchens. Where I have a problem is with being FORCED to do it by my government. I want to do it for others, I just want it to be my choice to do it, not the government taking it out of my paycheck and making me do it. I want the choice to support the projects that I deem to be doing the best to help out. I don't want to be forced to pay for programs that I can see aren't working.

Rick

 

[Dr Gregg]

Since the GOP doesn't represent conservatives and we have basically a two party system, there wouldn't be anything for conservatives to sign.....right?

Conservatives sign mortgage applications just like everybody else. Conservatives sign credit card contracts just like everybody else.

The difference is, we blame ourselves for not reading them well enough if we get screwed over.

Seems liberals like to blame those that wrote the applications and contracts.

Personal responsibility.

I'm posting two links. One is to the December 2008 electoral map (red state - blue state). The other is a map showing foreclosures. As you can see from the map, red states (ie conservatives) have just as much a problem with forclosures as anyone else save florida and calilfornia (and florida had been a red state in the 04 election).


Election maps

Where does your state rank? - CNNMoney.com


So before you try to claim that conservatives were a whole lot smarter than liberals when it came to mortgages, you may just want to take a look. Now, if you have more precise data, I'm all eyes.

also got to love his myth that conservatives don't blame others, isn't that funny.

Or that just because you support helping those in need and actually have a heart and care, and think of the ramification of loads of poor and homeless (increased crime), you must blame everybody for your problem, or want a handout. The typical responses you hear when it comes to discussion of assistance programs

 

[The Rabbi]

Since the GOP doesn't represent conservatives and we have basically a two party system, there wouldn't be anything for conservatives to sign.....right?

Conservatives sign mortgage applications just like everybody else. Conservatives sign credit card contracts just like everybody else.

The difference is, we blame ourselves for not reading them well enough if we get screwed over.

Seems liberals like to blame those that wrote the applications and contracts.

Personal responsibility.

I'm posting two links. One is to the December 2008 electoral map (red state - blue state). The other is a map showing foreclosures. As you can see from the map, red states (ie conservatives) have just as much a problem with forclosures as anyone else save florida and calilfornia (and florida had been a red state in the 04 election).


Election maps

Where does your state rank? - CNNMoney.com


So before you try to claim that conservatives were a whole lot smarter than liberals when it came to mortgages, you may just want to take a look. Now, if you have more precise data, I'm all eyes.

You realize your post isn't at all responsive to the one you're responding to, right?

 

[hboats]

Oh, look who's name calling now. Thanks yet again, for showing that you are truly a delusional partisan hack, yet you continue to act like you are mature, smart and putting forth rationale argument.s Only thing you have is the ability to more quaintly spout your bullshit than many of the other posters.

Yeah, best ignore me because I keep showing what a full of shit, hypocrite phony you are. Please ignore me, won't have you going around harrassing me with your bullshit. WHy don't you take the rest of the trolls with you.

Someone posts a well thought out response to you and tries to pull you into a debate/conversation and you reply

Pinnochio is at it again. It's when people post obviously stupid shit, and clearly false bullshit and talking points. But play the persecution card, pretty pathetic, and dishonest as usual.

And then complain that he's calling you names in a subsequent post? And you're calling everyone else hacks and trolls? Why not try to discuss instead of just calling everyone who doesn't agree with you a liar and resorting to calling names?

Honest questions, but don't worry, I don't expect any kind of honest response.

Rick

reading comprehension, holy shit you people just like making shit up. I'm pointing out his hypocrisy, not complaining about him calling me name

If you can't see that, than fuck off and don't respond to me, you truly are retarded, especially if you haven't seen many of my posts where I do discuss things. Take your head out of your ass once, or get a life instead of trying to instigate shit

I/ve tried discussing with the people I call out,, they don't care about discussing, they just like the rant and spout stupid, non factual shit

What is with you? I'm trying to point out to you that you're not helping your cause at all, and I'm trying to do it in a courteous way, and you reply with that crap? Did I call you a name? Did I tell you to "fuck off" as you so eloquently told me? No, I was pointing out that someone posted a reply to your post and instead of trying to debate or discuss his points, or even point out what you thought was a lie you respond with

Pinnochio is at it again. It's when people post obviously stupid shit, and clearly false bullshit and talking points. But play the persecution card, pretty pathetic, and dishonest as usual.

How exactly is that helping the discussion? How is that pointing out where the poster is incorrect or posting lies? It isn't, it's just dismissing everything he said and not taking the time to actually read and comprehend where he's coming from.

Rick

 

[beowolfe]

the evidence is that the stimulus bill(s) has failed. It did not do what the administration claimed. It boosted the deficit to historic highs. And the result has been unemployment that we have not seen in 30 years.
Obama called for this bill. Obama pushed this bill. It is Obama's bill, regardless of who actually passed it.
Read the stimulus bill? Ask John Conyers:
Video: Democrat John Conyers: Read the bill? Why bother | The Lonely Conservative

And I doubt whether very many of the buffoons in Congress have read the healthcare bill or understand it if they have. I know Obama hasn't.

An economic stimulus is an effort by the goverment to pump money into an ailing economy, whether through spending, tax cuts or interest rate reductions. By replacing money not being spent by businesses or consumers, a stimulus is meant to put a floor under a recession and pave the way for a return to growth.

Has the economy continued to fall off a cliff? Seems to me the stimulus bill was successful in it's purpose. With the exception of employment, most other economic indicators say the downward economic spiral has stopped.

Obama inherited the largest deficit in history. Everyone knew that the $787 billion was 'on top of that'. If you didn't........well.....

As for Conyers, you'll have to blame him for not reading it. But that still doesn't say that 'no one' read it. Even some congress people and/or their staff read it. Despite everything you've said........you've still offered zero evidence that the stimulus bill has failed. Now you're free to believe whatever you wish, but you're not free to invent facts that are contrary to reality.

The economy has only so far it can go in the natural course of things. It did that. Saying that the stimulus was a success because things didnt go to hell is like saying the operation was a success but the patient died.
Obama promised that the stimulus would arrest the loss of jobs. It did not. But it did suppress job creation. I saw that job loss in the 2001 recession was more severe but unemployment didnt go anywhere near where it is now because job creation kept up. Not this time.
Obama inherited the largest deficit. And promptly made it worse. He inherited a bad economic policy. And made it worse. He has spent more money on "stimulus" than any other president. And the economy has given the weakest response ever.

And Proletarian agrees with me. So you know I'm right.

You don't think the US economy can completely collapse!! HAHAHAHAHA...... whew!!

Saying that the stimulus was a success because things didnt go to hell is like saying the operation was a success but the patient died.

Bad analogy. Saying the stimulus was a success because things didn't go to hell is like saying the operation was a success because the patient didn't die. (That's a more correct analogy).

But I've got to tell you. You are the very first person I've EVER run across who believes that something invented by man (US economy) cannot completly collapse.

Is there anyone here who agrees that the US economy can't totally collapse?

 

[Dr Gregg]

I guess this is what you tell yourself to keep your ideology alive. Instead of just saying you are greedy and don't want people in need to get help, its just easier to label them with a brush to make them sound evil. What has become so typical of conservatives, this type of dishonesty. People who support programs to help those in need does not mean they want a handout, they expect to get things in return, they blame others for their failings, since supporting this doesn't mean they want it for themselves. I

t's a pretty fantasy based view of life. All it takes in life is hard work, that's it. Forget about people who aren't born with abilities of others, who haven't had the education and resources to succeed at life, forget about the people that are injured, become ill, have things beyond their control happen to them to put them in a bad situation. Forget that there are indeed not too intelligent people and ones that are easily manipulated, should one mistake mean they starve and die, in such a rich country? Or that there are plenty of people out there misleading and taking advantage of people. Yeah, forget all the real complex things in life that all contribute to positions people are in. Let's just pretend its a fantasy where "work hard, that's all it takes". Probably all while ignoring things you've had happen in your life that helped you be in a position of success.

I don't have a problem with helping out people who need help. I do it all the time with giving to charities and helping at soup kitchens. Where I have a problem is with being FORCED to do it by my government. I want to do it for others, I just want it to be my choice to do it, not the government taking it out of my paycheck and making me do it. I want the choice to support the projects that I deem to be doing the best to help out. I don't want to be forced to pay for programs that I can see aren't working.

Rick

I hear you, but frankly don't think it would work if the gov't didn't do it, I don't know if there would be enough. I"d bet you'd get a problem of people forcing their morality on others, and many people getting left out from assistance. Granted, I have no idea, just sort of hypothesizing here.

 

[Oldandtired]

Since the GOP doesn't represent conservatives and we have basically a two party system, there wouldn't be anything for conservatives to sign.....right?

Conservatives sign mortgage applications just like everybody else. Conservatives sign credit card contracts just like everybody else.

The difference is, we blame ourselves for not reading them well enough if we get screwed over.

Seems liberals like to blame those that wrote the applications and contracts.

Personal responsibility.

I'm posting two links. One is to the December 2008 electoral map (red state - blue state). The other is a map showing foreclosures. As you can see from the map, red states (ie conservatives) have just as much a problem with forclosures as anyone else save florida and calilfornia (and florida had been a red state in the 04 election).


Election maps

Where does your state rank? - CNNMoney.com


So before you try to claim that conservatives were a whole lot smarter than liberals when it came to mortgages, you may just want to take a look. Now, if you have more precise data, I'm all eyes.

Conservatives screwed themselves over as much as anyone else did. All I am saying is that conservatives blame themselves for lack of caution....liberals blame others for this mistakes.

Noit in the mood for this.....was making a point that is debatable...yes...debatable....dont need the likes of you trying to make more out of it than was meant.

 

[Dr Gregg]

Someone posts a well thought out response to you and tries to pull you into a debate/conversation and you reply

And then complain that he's calling you names in a subsequent post? And you're calling everyone else hacks and trolls? Why not try to discuss instead of just calling everyone who doesn't agree with you a liar and resorting to calling names?

Honest questions, but don't worry, I don't expect any kind of honest response.

Rick

reading comprehension, holy shit you people just like making shit up. I'm pointing out his hypocrisy, not complaining about him calling me name

If you can't see that, than fuck off and don't respond to me, you truly are retarded, especially if you haven't seen many of my posts where I do discuss things. Take your head out of your ass once, or get a life instead of trying to instigate shit

I/ve tried discussing with the people I call out,, they don't care about discussing, they just like the rant and spout stupid, non factual shit

What is with you? I'm trying to point out to you that you're not helping your cause at all, and I'm trying to do it in a courteous way, and you reply with that crap? Did I call you a name? Did I tell you to "fuck off" as you so eloquently told me? No, I was pointing out that someone posted a reply to your post and instead of trying to debate or discuss his points, or even point out what you thought was a lie you respond with

Pinnochio is at it again. It's when people post obviously stupid shit, and clearly false bullshit and talking points. But play the persecution card, pretty pathetic, and dishonest as usual.

How exactly is that helping the discussion? How is that pointing out where the poster is incorrect or posting lies? It isn't, it's just dismissing everything he said and not taking the time to actually read and comprehend where he's coming from.

Rick

And then complain that he's calling you names in a subsequent post?

YOu could of done so without making this up, as I wasn't complaining about the name calling. You know, the majority of this place doesn't give a shit about giving rational arguments, and whenever I do they just get ignored, and the stupid rants and name calling begins. Very much overloaded with those types of people.

I'm sorry for the snap,, there are so many annoying people in this place and I sensed you were being one of them. I appreciate your other response, done so without bullshitting, and done so by given reasoning behind your opinion.

Again, sorry for the misunderstanding, I have limited patients for the ignorants that just rant and rave without anything of substance, so I guess I"[m a little touchy.

 

[hboats]

I guess this is what you tell yourself to keep your ideology alive. Instead of just saying you are greedy and don't want people in need to get help, its just easier to label them with a brush to make them sound evil. What has become so typical of conservatives, this type of dishonesty. People who support programs to help those in need does not mean they want a handout, they expect to get things in return, they blame others for their failings, since supporting this doesn't mean they want it for themselves. I

t's a pretty fantasy based view of life. All it takes in life is hard work, that's it. Forget about people who aren't born with abilities of others, who haven't had the education and resources to succeed at life, forget about the people that are injured, become ill, have things beyond their control happen to them to put them in a bad situation. Forget that there are indeed not too intelligent people and ones that are easily manipulated, should one mistake mean they starve and die, in such a rich country? Or that there are plenty of people out there misleading and taking advantage of people. Yeah, forget all the real complex things in life that all contribute to positions people are in. Let's just pretend its a fantasy where "work hard, that's all it takes". Probably all while ignoring things you've had happen in your life that helped you be in a position of success.

I don't have a problem with helping out people who need help. I do it all the time with giving to charities and helping at soup kitchens. Where I have a problem is with being FORCED to do it by my government. I want to do it for others, I just want it to be my choice to do it, not the government taking it out of my paycheck and making me do it. I want the choice to support the projects that I deem to be doing the best to help out. I don't want to be forced to pay for programs that I can see aren't working.

Rick

I hear you, but frankly don't think it would work if the gov't didn't do it, I don't know if there would be enough. I"d bet you'd get a problem of people forcing their morality on others, and many people getting left out from assistance. Granted, I have no idea, just sort of hypothesizing here.

You could be right, but I don't necessarily think so. If there is a need, there is usually someone that is willing to fill the void where the need is. The problem is that we're all forced to fill all of the needs, and the government has proved over and over again that when they try to fill a need the funds don't go to where they were intended. They go someplace else that a representative feels is a more worthy need, instead of going where the funds were meant to go.

Let's get our government to actually put out a budget showing us where all of the money that is collected for a certain project is going.

Rick

 

[hboats]

reading comprehension, holy shit you people just like making shit up. I'm pointing out his hypocrisy, not complaining about him calling me name

If you can't see that, than fuck off and don't respond to me, you truly are retarded, especially if you haven't seen many of my posts where I do discuss things. Take your head out of your ass once, or get a life instead of trying to instigate shit

I/ve tried discussing with the people I call out,, they don't care about discussing, they just like the rant and spout stupid, non factual shit

What is with you? I'm trying to point out to you that you're not helping your cause at all, and I'm trying to do it in a courteous way, and you reply with that crap? Did I call you a name? Did I tell you to "fuck off" as you so eloquently told me? No, I was pointing out that someone posted a reply to your post and instead of trying to debate or discuss his points, or even point out what you thought was a lie you respond with

How exactly is that helping the discussion? How is that pointing out where the poster is incorrect or posting lies? It isn't, it's just dismissing everything he said and not taking the time to actually read and comprehend where he's coming from.

Rick

And then complain that he's calling you names in a subsequent post?

YOu could of done so without making this up, as I wasn't complaining about the name calling. You know, the majority of this place doesn't give a shit about giving rational arguments, and whenever I do they just get ignored, and the stupid rants and name calling begins. Very much overloaded with those types of people.

I'm sorry for the snap,, there are so many annoying people in this place and I sensed you were being one of them. I appreciate your other response, done so without bullshitting, and done so by given reasoning behind your opinion.

Again, sorry for the misunderstanding, I have limited patients for the ignorants that just rant and rave without anything of substance, so I guess I"[m a little touchy.

I appreciate the apology, thank you.

Rick

 

[Dr Gregg]

Conservatives sign mortgage applications just like everybody else. Conservatives sign credit card contracts just like everybody else.

The difference is, we blame ourselves for not reading them well enough if we get screwed over.

Seems liberals like to blame those that wrote the applications and contracts.

Personal responsibility.

I'm posting two links. One is to the December 2008 electoral map (red state - blue state). The other is a map showing foreclosures. As you can see from the map, red states (ie conservatives) have just as much a problem with forclosures as anyone else save florida and calilfornia (and florida had been a red state in the 04 election).


Election maps

Where does your state rank? - CNNMoney.com


So before you try to claim that conservatives were a whole lot smarter than liberals when it came to mortgages, you may just want to take a look. Now, if you have more precise data, I'm all eyes.

Conservatives screwed themselves over as much as anyone else did. All I am saying is that conservatives blame themselves for lack of caution....liberals blame others for this mistakes.

Noit in the mood for this.....was making a point that is debatable...yes...debatable....dont need the likes of you trying to make more out of it than was meant.

ah yes, point out lies and generalizations, like "liberals blame others", get called out on it, then go running to the hills. Stop posting such nonsense then if you can't handle people criticizing you over it