A Marines perspective of the nude photos of Women Marines

Who could not see problems from the Obama Administration pushing the Marine Corps into the training of women and men together? Men are normal when they wish to be with a woman sexually and enjoy looking at them. Women are normal that wish to be with men. These individuals are in good physical shape so you would expect the desire to be even more severe than the fat kids in college or the individuals in every work place in America. If you don't want nude photos of yourself out there don't put them on the internet. I doubt very seriously that anyone sneaked into the women's shower and took the pictures

OBAMA???

You have no clue about thus but more to the point, get you voted for drumpf. Easy to tell because you blamed President Obama for what these men did.

The women did not put them online. The men did.

The mistake the women made was in trusting men.


Sent from my iPad using USMessageBoard.com
The pictures are from Obama's watch. Unless you think they just got posted since Jan 20.
Who could not see problems from the Obama Administration pushing the Marine Corps into the training of women and men together? Men are normal when they wish to be with a woman sexually and enjoy looking at them. Women are normal that wish to be with men. These individuals are in good physical shape so you would expect the desire to be even more severe than the fat kids in college or the individuals in every work place in America. If you don't want nude photos of yourself out there don't put them on the internet. I doubt very seriously that anyone sneaked into the women's shower and took the pictures

OBAMA???

You have no clue about thus but more to the point, get you voted for drumpf. Easy to tell because you blamed President Obama for what these men did.

The women did not put them online. The men did.

The mistake the women made was in trusting men.


Sent from my iPad using USMessageBoard.com
The pictures are from Obama's watch. Unless you think they just got posted since Jan 20.
So...it's Former President Obama's fault?
 
How else would you describe men who betray the trust of the USMC?

I could think of a lot worse
. Neanderthal describes a man who is trained to kill in which to the libs is a PRIMITIVE MAN until they need someone to protect them with that very thing, then they love their Marines. :Boom2:
Marines hold themselves to a higher standard ..... Semper Fi

Betraying a fellow marine does not meet that standard
. Are you talking about individuals or the institution ? Make up your mind already. If there is a huge problem, then it needs a huge solution, and liberals screaming at generals in a kangaroo court isn't the solution.
Generals claim they have the situation under control and can handle it internally

Time and again they show they can't
. If the dam politically correct gloves were removed, they could handle it perfectly.

 
Who could not see problems from the Obama Administration pushing the Marine Corps into the training of women and men together? Men are normal when they wish to be with a woman sexually and enjoy looking at them. Women are normal that wish to be with men. These individuals are in good physical shape so you would expect the desire to be even more severe than the fat kids in college or the individuals in every work place in America. If you don't want nude photos of yourself out there don't put them on the internet. I doubt very seriously that anyone sneaked into the women's shower and took the pictures

OBAMA???

You have no clue about thus but more to the point, get you voted for drumpf. Easy to tell because you blamed President Obama for what these men did.

The women did not put them online. The men did.

The mistake the women made was in trusting men.


Sent from my iPad using USMessageBoard.com
The pictures are from Obama's watch. Unless you think they just got posted since Jan 20.
Who could not see problems from the Obama Administration pushing the Marine Corps into the training of women and men together? Men are normal when they wish to be with a woman sexually and enjoy looking at them. Women are normal that wish to be with men. These individuals are in good physical shape so you would expect the desire to be even more severe than the fat kids in college or the individuals in every work place in America. If you don't want nude photos of yourself out there don't put them on the internet. I doubt very seriously that anyone sneaked into the women's shower and took the pictures

OBAMA???

You have no clue about thus but more to the point, get you voted for drumpf. Easy to tell because you blamed President Obama for what these men did.

The women did not put them online. The men did.

The mistake the women made was in trusting men.


Sent from my iPad using USMessageBoard.com
The pictures are from Obama's watch. Unless you think they just got posted since Jan 20.
So...it's Former President Obama's fault?

By god, He ought to be impeached!
 
The OP victimizes the victims.

If had him in my unit when I served, I would have made sure he was not eligible for re-up.

The OP possesses no honor, no integrity.
Don't get confused who the victims are. I really doubt that from seeing some of you prior posts that you would be in a position to decide who would be eligible for re-uping.
You are discussing yourself, trainee. You defend military personnel who are victimizing military personnel. No, you would not have lasted long in my unit.
I will defend them and believe me when I tell you I would not shame myself to be in your unit.

But you would be in drumpf's unit.


Sent from my iPad using USMessageBoard.com
 
Who could not see problems from the Obama Administration pushing the Marine Corps into the training of women and men together? Men are normal when they wish to be with a woman sexually and enjoy looking at them. Women are normal that wish to be with men. These individuals are in good physical shape so you would expect the desire to be even more severe than the fat kids in college or the individuals in every work place in America. If you don't want nude photos of yourself out there don't put them on the internet. I doubt very seriously that anyone sneaked into the women's shower and took the pictures

OBAMA???

You have no clue about thus but more to the point, get you voted for drumpf. Easy to tell because you blamed President Obama for what these men did.

The women did not put them online. The men did.

The mistake the women made was in trusting men.


Sent from my iPad using USMessageBoard.com
The pictures are from Obama's watch. Unless you think they just got posted since Jan 20.
Who could not see problems from the Obama Administration pushing the Marine Corps into the training of women and men together? Men are normal when they wish to be with a woman sexually and enjoy looking at them. Women are normal that wish to be with men. These individuals are in good physical shape so you would expect the desire to be even more severe than the fat kids in college or the individuals in every work place in America. If you don't want nude photos of yourself out there don't put them on the internet. I doubt very seriously that anyone sneaked into the women's shower and took the pictures

OBAMA???

You have no clue about thus but more to the point, get you voted for drumpf. Easy to tell because you blamed President Obama for what these men did.

The women did not put them online. The men did.

The mistake the women made was in trusting men.


Sent from my iPad using USMessageBoard.com
The pictures are from Obama's watch. Unless you think they just got posted since Jan 20.
So...it's Former President Obama's fault?
We already had Luddly try to claim it did not happen on Obama's watch. Before Jan 20 who was President? Under whos administration did it occur? Of course the President did not cause it but it happened under his watch.
 
Uncle Ferd been huntin' it onna interweb, but he can't find it...
icon_redface.gif

Scandal that rocked Marine Corps now expands, four branches of military investigating similar claims
Saturday 11th March, 2017 - Merely days after the U.S. Defense Department said it was investigating a report that some Marines shared naked photographs of female Marines, veterans and other women on a secret Facebook page called "Marines United" - four more branches are said to be probing similar claims.
According to reports, U.S. servicemen from all parts of the military have allegedly been sharing nude photos of their female colleagues. Previous reports revealed that some of the images were taken without the consent and knowledge of the women. The particular Facebook page had a 30,000 membership of active-duty and retired male Marines, Navy Corpsman and British Royal Marines. Besides the objectionable photographs, the page had several obscene comments on the women. A Pentagon official on Thursday was quoted in a CNN report as confirming that four branches of the military were looking into the posting of nude photos of what appear to be female service members on various websites.

The official however said that so far, there is no Defense Department-wide investigation. A Business Insider report had previously claimed that said the scandal related to “lewd photos being posted by a group of Marines and former Marines, goes beyond the Corps and some private Facebook groups like Marines United.” Then, a BBC report stated that there were message boards where servicemen from other branches had shared hundreds of photos. The report further noted that a message board on anonymous image hosting website Anon-IB was used by male service members to share nude images of their female counterparts. Explaining the modus operandi, the report said that they first posted clothed photos of female personnel taken from their social media pages, and ask if any members have nude photos. The nude photos were called"wins" and featured lewd comments.

cus1489154952.jpg

Sometimes, these posts even provided names and other details of women along with where they are stationed. The message boards, reports noted indicate that such practices extend throughout the military. Responding the reports, the Pentagon said in a statement that such behaviour was "inconsistent" with its values. When the scandal broke, Marine Corps top commander Gen. Robert B. Neller did not comment directly on the report, but said, "For anyone to target one of our Marines, online or otherwise, in an inappropriate manner, is distasteful and shows an absence of respect." He also said, “When I hear allegations of marines denigrating their fellow marines, I don't think such behaviour is that of true warriors or war fighters.”

The Facebook page was first discovered by The War Horse, a non-profit news organization managed by Marine veteran Thomas Brennan, and the investigation was first reported on Saturday by the Center for Investigative Reporting. One of the women whose photos were posted - Marine Lance Cpl. Marisa Woytek told The Post that photos were taken from her Instagram account and posted to Marines United multiple times in the past six months, without her consent. “Even if I could, I’m never re-enlisting,” Woytek said. “Being sexually harassed online ruined the Marine Corps for me, and the experience.” Marine Corps spokesman Capt. Ryan E. Alvis said, commenting on the report, said, "We are thankful that Thomas Brennan, a Marine veteran, notified the Marine Corps and NCIS about what he witnessed on the ‘Marines United' page." "It allowed us to take immediate action to have the explicit photos taken down and to prepare to support potential victims."

MORE
Yah I could not find it either, and I am a pretty good hacker these days.

I found the pics, can't post boobies here.
 
Uncle Ferd been huntin' it onna interweb, but he can't find it...
icon_redface.gif

Scandal that rocked Marine Corps now expands, four branches of military investigating similar claims
Saturday 11th March, 2017 - Merely days after the U.S. Defense Department said it was investigating a report that some Marines shared naked photographs of female Marines, veterans and other women on a secret Facebook page called "Marines United" - four more branches are said to be probing similar claims.
According to reports, U.S. servicemen from all parts of the military have allegedly been sharing nude photos of their female colleagues. Previous reports revealed that some of the images were taken without the consent and knowledge of the women. The particular Facebook page had a 30,000 membership of active-duty and retired male Marines, Navy Corpsman and British Royal Marines. Besides the objectionable photographs, the page had several obscene comments on the women. A Pentagon official on Thursday was quoted in a CNN report as confirming that four branches of the military were looking into the posting of nude photos of what appear to be female service members on various websites.

The official however said that so far, there is no Defense Department-wide investigation. A Business Insider report had previously claimed that said the scandal related to “lewd photos being posted by a group of Marines and former Marines, goes beyond the Corps and some private Facebook groups like Marines United.” Then, a BBC report stated that there were message boards where servicemen from other branches had shared hundreds of photos. The report further noted that a message board on anonymous image hosting website Anon-IB was used by male service members to share nude images of their female counterparts. Explaining the modus operandi, the report said that they first posted clothed photos of female personnel taken from their social media pages, and ask if any members have nude photos. The nude photos were called"wins" and featured lewd comments.

cus1489154952.jpg

Sometimes, these posts even provided names and other details of women along with where they are stationed. The message boards, reports noted indicate that such practices extend throughout the military. Responding the reports, the Pentagon said in a statement that such behaviour was "inconsistent" with its values. When the scandal broke, Marine Corps top commander Gen. Robert B. Neller did not comment directly on the report, but said, "For anyone to target one of our Marines, online or otherwise, in an inappropriate manner, is distasteful and shows an absence of respect." He also said, “When I hear allegations of marines denigrating their fellow marines, I don't think such behaviour is that of true warriors or war fighters.”

The Facebook page was first discovered by The War Horse, a non-profit news organization managed by Marine veteran Thomas Brennan, and the investigation was first reported on Saturday by the Center for Investigative Reporting. One of the women whose photos were posted - Marine Lance Cpl. Marisa Woytek told The Post that photos were taken from her Instagram account and posted to Marines United multiple times in the past six months, without her consent. “Even if I could, I’m never re-enlisting,” Woytek said. “Being sexually harassed online ruined the Marine Corps for me, and the experience.” Marine Corps spokesman Capt. Ryan E. Alvis said, commenting on the report, said, "We are thankful that Thomas Brennan, a Marine veteran, notified the Marine Corps and NCIS about what he witnessed on the ‘Marines United' page." "It allowed us to take immediate action to have the explicit photos taken down and to prepare to support potential victims."

MORE
Yah I could not find it either, and I am a pretty good hacker these days.

I found the pics, can't post boobies here.

A few years ago, we had a hard freeze down here in South AZ, and one of my pipes broke.

I blame Obama.
 
You know, I gotta say, I served with women most of my 20 year career in the Navy, and NEVER heard of the amount of crap that is going on now.
. Seems as if there is some kind of agenda going on doesn't it ?? Wonder if it is agenda driven or just a mistake to have taken the forces into this social experimentation or engineering nightmare now ?

Actually, I think it's another problem entirely..........technology.

Why do I say this? Well, back in the early 90's, the Navy Exchange decided to come out with a credit card program, and they also got in hand held VHS cameras that used the mini cassettes at that time.

Well........a whole bunch of the dudes living in the barracks thought that was really cool, and they all got cameras, and about a month later, there was a couple of sex tapes circling around the squadron that one or two guys made.

They had the ability, and being young and stupid, decided to do crap like that. One of them ended up going to CO's mast for it.

So what do I blame for these pictures? Smart phones, Facebook and the internet. It's just too easy to do stuff like that now, and well........I know how stupid I as well as some of my fellow sailors were when we were 21 and had no sense.

I mean, even famous athletes and politicians have been caught sending and receiving pics over their phones and social media.
. It also begs the question as to what type of character's are in mass amongst the ranks now ? Would the soldier character in the 40's or 50's express themselves in these kinds of ways one wonders ?

Yes. Take a look at the "art" on the sides of planes, and the "french postcards" that were so popular.
 
Who could not see problems from the Obama Administration pushing the Marine Corps into the training of women and men together? Men are normal when they wish to be with a woman sexually and enjoy looking at them. Women are normal that wish to be with men. These individuals are in good physical shape so you would expect the desire to be even more severe than the fat kids in college or the individuals in every work place in America. If you don't want nude photos of yourself out there don't put them on the internet. I doubt very seriously that anyone sneaked into the women's shower and took the pictures

What I think you are saying is that it is Obama's fault that Marines disrespect other Marines (who are willing to die for their country), because they don't have penises.
I do have different views than you on woman's purpose in combat but I really can not see where you misunderstood me enough to say what you did. These women put their nude pictures on the internet.
 
Sitting here just now, and I saw a very disturbing event taking place on my tv.... It was a marine comander being grilled by a liberal over this alledged nude photo scandal that is taking place within the Marines currently, and it was a sickening thing to watch as a top marine commander was being whipped like he was some kind of weak piece of crap in that situation. KIDDING ME RIGHT ? Is it time to separate the services again maybe ?? What worked or was created years ago as a fighting force without the serious problems we are seeing now, could actually need to be re-evaluated, re-considered, re-invented, and re-instituted in the ways that it was years ago, because that was one sad situation going on there on that TV screen, and it had to be an embarrassment for our military forces around the world. Grandstanding political hack liberals need to be dethroned from power if they think that they can break our military forces down in front of the world like that. It was pathetic.
It should be an embarrassment to Marines around the world

That poor Commander is a Commander for a reason. He is responsible for what happens in his command. This is not an isolated incident. Abuse of female service members is rampant.
General after general has sworn to Congress that they can take care of it themselves

Obviously they can't

How can you call it abuse when the women put the pictures out there?
 
Sitting here just now, and I saw a very disturbing event taking place on my tv.... It was a marine comander being grilled by a liberal over this alledged nude photo scandal that is taking place within the Marines currently, and it was a sickening thing to watch as a top marine commander was being whipped like he was some kind of weak piece of crap in that situation. KIDDING ME RIGHT ? Is it time to separate the services again maybe ?? What worked or was created years ago as a fighting force without the serious problems we are seeing now, could actually need to be re-evaluated, re-considered, re-invented, and re-instituted in the ways that it was years ago, because that was one sad situation going on there on that TV screen, and it had to be an embarrassment for our military forces around the world. Grandstanding political hack liberals need to be dethroned from power if they think that they can break our military forces down in front of the world like that. It was pathetic.
It should be an embarrassment to Marines around the world

That poor Commander is a Commander for a reason. He is responsible for what happens in his command. This is not an isolated incident. Abuse of female service members is rampant.
General after general has sworn to Congress that they can take care of it themselves

Obviously they can't

How can you call it abuse when the women put the pictures out there?
Retard alert these women did NOT put their pictures out there that is the whole point of the complaint.
 
Who could not see problems from the Obama Administration pushing the Marine Corps into the training of women and men together? Men are normal when they wish to be with a woman sexually and enjoy looking at them. Women are normal that wish to be with men. These individuals are in good physical shape so you would expect the desire to be even more severe than the fat kids in college or the individuals in every work place in America. If you don't want nude photos of yourself out there don't put them on the internet. I doubt very seriously that anyone sneaked into the women's shower and took the pictures

OBAMA???

You have no clue about thus but more to the point, get you voted for drumpf. Easy to tell because you blamed President Obama for what these men did.

The women did not put them online. The men did.

The mistake the women made was in trusting men.


Sent from my iPad using USMessageBoard.com

I seriously doubt you have any idea how the nudes got online. There has not been a clear argument to me to show the women thought it was a mistake to send their nude photos on the internet.
 
How else would you describe Neanderthals who post naked pictures of their fellow marines
. You should be disqualified to post on this subject all due to your bias here feminazi. You're Neanderthal comment says it all.
How else would you describe men who betray the trust of the USMC?

I could think of a lot worse
. Neanderthal describes a man who is trained to kill in which to the libs is a PRIMITIVE MAN until they need someone to protect them with that very thing, then they love their Marines. :Boom2:
Marines hold themselves to a higher standard ..... Semper Fi

Betraying a fellow marine does not meet that standard
. Are you talking about individuals or the institution ? Make up your mind already. If there is a huge problem, then it needs a huge solution, and liberals screaming at generals in a kangaroo court isn't the solution.

Both

There are obviously institutional issues with how service members treat their female counterparts. Sexual Harassment training does not seem to be working. Harsher measures need to be taken to end the "boys will be boys" mentality

Yes, harsh, specific actions need to be taken against service members who abuse females
 
Sitting here just now, and I saw a very disturbing event taking place on my tv.... It was a marine comander being grilled by a liberal over this alledged nude photo scandal that is taking place within the Marines currently, and it was a sickening thing to watch as a top marine commander was being whipped like he was some kind of weak piece of crap in that situation. KIDDING ME RIGHT ? Is it time to separate the services again maybe ?? What worked or was created years ago as a fighting force without the serious problems we are seeing now, could actually need to be re-evaluated, re-considered, re-invented, and re-instituted in the ways that it was years ago, because that was one sad situation going on there on that TV screen, and it had to be an embarrassment for our military forces around the world. Grandstanding political hack liberals need to be dethroned from power if they think that they can break our military forces down in front of the world like that. It was pathetic.
It should be an embarrassment to Marines around the world

That poor Commander is a Commander for a reason. He is responsible for what happens in his command. This is not an isolated incident. Abuse of female service members is rampant.
General after general has sworn to Congress that they can take care of it themselves

Obviously they can't

How can you call it abuse when the women put the pictures out there?

Because even if a woman were to give you a picture "for your eyes only" it does not justify posting it on the internet with her name and rank
 
Sitting here just now, and I saw a very disturbing event taking place on my tv.... It was a marine comander being grilled by a liberal over this alledged nude photo scandal that is taking place within the Marines currently, and it was a sickening thing to watch as a top marine commander was being whipped like he was some kind of weak piece of crap in that situation. KIDDING ME RIGHT ? Is it time to separate the services again maybe ?? What worked or was created years ago as a fighting force without the serious problems we are seeing now, could actually need to be re-evaluated, re-considered, re-invented, and re-instituted in the ways that it was years ago, because that was one sad situation going on there on that TV screen, and it had to be an embarrassment for our military forces around the world. Grandstanding political hack liberals need to be dethroned from power if they think that they can break our military forces down in front of the world like that. It was pathetic.
It should be an embarrassment to Marines around the world

That poor Commander is a Commander for a reason. He is responsible for what happens in his command. This is not an isolated incident. Abuse of female service members is rampant.
General after general has sworn to Congress that they can take care of it themselves

Obviously they can't

How can you call it abuse when the women put the pictures out there?
Retard alert these women did NOT put their pictures out there that is the whole point of the complaint.

I must tell you I am not much on the name calling when you will never meet the person that you speak of and I have always thought of it as a weakness. You really don't think these women put these nudes out there? I think they did. What severe punishment would you place on the women if I am right?
 
Sitting here just now, and I saw a very disturbing event taking place on my tv.... It was a marine comander being grilled by a liberal over this alledged nude photo scandal that is taking place within the Marines currently, and it was a sickening thing to watch as a top marine commander was being whipped like he was some kind of weak piece of crap in that situation. KIDDING ME RIGHT ? Is it time to separate the services again maybe ?? What worked or was created years ago as a fighting force without the serious problems we are seeing now, could actually need to be re-evaluated, re-considered, re-invented, and re-instituted in the ways that it was years ago, because that was one sad situation going on there on that TV screen, and it had to be an embarrassment for our military forces around the world. Grandstanding political hack liberals need to be dethroned from power if they think that they can break our military forces down in front of the world like that. It was pathetic.
It should be an embarrassment to Marines around the world

That poor Commander is a Commander for a reason. He is responsible for what happens in his command. This is not an isolated incident. Abuse of female service members is rampant.
General after general has sworn to Congress that they can take care of it themselves

Obviously they can't

How can you call it abuse when the women put the pictures out there?
Retard alert these women did NOT put their pictures out there that is the whole point of the complaint.

I must tell you I am not much on the name calling when you will never meet the person that you speak of and I have always thought of it as a weakness. You really don't think these women put these nudes out there? I think they did. What severe punishment would you place on the women if I am right?

Are you claiming the women posted nude pictures of themselves with their name and rank?
 
15th post
Sitting here just now, and I saw a very disturbing event taking place on my tv.... It was a marine comander being grilled by a liberal over this alledged nude photo scandal that is taking place within the Marines currently, and it was a sickening thing to watch as a top marine commander was being whipped like he was some kind of weak piece of crap in that situation. KIDDING ME RIGHT ? Is it time to separate the services again maybe ?? What worked or was created years ago as a fighting force without the serious problems we are seeing now, could actually need to be re-evaluated, re-considered, re-invented, and re-instituted in the ways that it was years ago, because that was one sad situation going on there on that TV screen, and it had to be an embarrassment for our military forces around the world. Grandstanding political hack liberals need to be dethroned from power if they think that they can break our military forces down in front of the world like that. It was pathetic.
It should be an embarrassment to Marines around the world

That poor Commander is a Commander for a reason. He is responsible for what happens in his command. This is not an isolated incident. Abuse of female service members is rampant.
General after general has sworn to Congress that they can take care of it themselves

Obviously they can't

How can you call it abuse when the women put the pictures out there?
Retard alert these women did NOT put their pictures out there that is the whole point of the complaint.

I must tell you I am not much on the name calling when you will never meet the person that you speak of and I have always thought of it as a weakness. You really don't think these women put these nudes out there? I think they did. What severe punishment would you place on the women if I am right?

Are you claiming the women posted nude pictures of themselves with their name and rank?

I am saying as far as we know they did not care.
 
It should be an embarrassment to Marines around the world

That poor Commander is a Commander for a reason. He is responsible for what happens in his command. This is not an isolated incident. Abuse of female service members is rampant.
General after general has sworn to Congress that they can take care of it themselves

Obviously they can't

How can you call it abuse when the women put the pictures out there?
Retard alert these women did NOT put their pictures out there that is the whole point of the complaint.

I must tell you I am not much on the name calling when you will never meet the person that you speak of and I have always thought of it as a weakness. You really don't think these women put these nudes out there? I think they did. What severe punishment would you place on the women if I am right?

Are you claiming the women posted nude pictures of themselves with their name and rank?

I am saying as far as we know they did not care.

Then why are all these outraged female Marines coming forward?
 
You know, I gotta say, I served with women most of my 20 year career in the Navy, and NEVER heard of the amount of crap that is going on now.
. Seems as if there is some kind of agenda going on doesn't it ?? Wonder if it is agenda driven or just a mistake to have taken the forces into this social experimentation or engineering nightmare now ?

Actually, I think it's another problem entirely..........technology.

Why do I say this? Well, back in the early 90's, the Navy Exchange decided to come out with a credit card program, and they also got in hand held VHS cameras that used the mini cassettes at that time.

Well........a whole bunch of the dudes living in the barracks thought that was really cool, and they all got cameras, and about a month later, there was a couple of sex tapes circling around the squadron that one or two guys made.

They had the ability, and being young and stupid, decided to do crap like that. One of them ended up going to CO's mast for it.

So what do I blame for these pictures? Smart phones, Facebook and the internet. It's just too easy to do stuff like that now, and well........I know how stupid I as well as some of my fellow sailors were when we were 21 and had no sense.

I mean, even famous athletes and politicians have been caught sending and receiving pics over their phones and social media.
. It also begs the question as to what type of character's are in mass amongst the ranks now ? Would the soldier character in the 40's or 50's express themselves in these kinds of ways one wonders ?

Yes. Take a look at the "art" on the sides of planes, and the "french postcards" that were so popular.
. Not exactly the same, but ok.. The intent and harm wasn't the same as is found within the differences between the generations, and nothing directly trailed back to individuals that would be abused in these ways.
 
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