A logical, simple truth with profound meaning

[dblack]

Why? Why is an infinite regression any less plausible than an uncaused cause?

Ours is just one of many "big bangs."

There are an infinite number more that will follow ours.

Maybe. I was just curious about the premise - that there "must" be a single, uncaused cause. The OP seemed to think it was obvious, but I don't see why. To me, the uncause cause seems about as inconceivable as an infinite regression.

The only solution to the first cause conundrum is something which is eternal and unchanging.

Why is that the only solution?

Because all others lead to infinite regression. Can you name one that doesn't?

Heh. Nevermind. I didn't realize it was you I was responding to.

 

[ding]

Ours is just one of many "big bangs."

There are an infinite number more that will follow ours.

Maybe. I was just curious about the premise - that there "must" be a single, uncaused cause. The OP seemed to think it was obvious, but I don't see why. To me, the uncause cause seems about as inconceivable as an infinite regression.

The only solution to the first cause conundrum is something which is eternal and unchanging.

Why is that the only solution?

Because all others lead to infinite regression. Can you name one that doesn't?

Heh. Nevermind. I didn't realize it was you I was responding to.

Truth passes through three phases; first it is ridiculed, then it is violently opposed and then it is accepted as self evident.

It usually hurts before it helps.

 

[Taz]

There cannot be an infinite regression of causes; there must be a single, uncaused cause.

Ah..the first cause theory. Which states, just because.

*nods sagely*

The prevailing theory is that the first event to occur in our universe was the "big bang". Who or what caused it?

We don't know.

 

[Chuz Life]

There cannot be an infinite regression of causes; there must be a single, uncaused cause.

There are some "initial conditions" that we dont yet have the tools to measure or observe or explain. And all that needs to be taken on faith.

Just as the Big Bang itself needs to be actually taken on faith.. Because no scientist can rationalize all of the energy, matter in the universe existing at a single point in space. Not with a trillion stars, a billion celestial bodies and all the energy needed to create them and put them in their place in an infinite universe.

Faith is the key word. But logic tells us that there HAD to be an uncaused cause, aka "the first cause". Something, or someone, had to give that first domino (so to speak) that initial push to get it all started. Does anyone here deny this?

I don't deny it.

I just keep my mind open to the possibility that it could be something else.

 

[GreatestIam]

There cannot be an infinite regression of causes; there must be a single, uncaused cause.

Ah..the first cause theory. Which states, just because.

*nods sagely*

The prevailing theory is that the first event to occur in our universe was the "big bang". Who or what caused it?

Evolution.

I have not proofed this as yet but will be posting it soon. Have a look at the logic trail and see what you think.

===========

Evolution, to a believer, must be seen as real, but not having a beginning, if God has life.


Evolution is an explanation of how life began.


God, if he were real, is said to have eternal life without a beginning. If God is eternal, and has life, then life must also be eternal and without a beginning just as is attributed to God.


Therefore, life and evolution of life must, to a believer; be eternal and without a beginning just like God.



Life then, to a believer; had no beginning just as believers believe God had no beginning. God is life.


This fits well into the law of evolution, which posits that life came to earth from space, which provided the earth with the building blocks of human life.


If an evolving process like evolution is real, which it is, then any original version of God must be in a constant state of evolution and change. That is what makes God unknowable.



Is life, to intelligent believers, eternal and without a beginning?


Regards

DL

 

[ding]

There cannot be an infinite regression of causes; there must be a single, uncaused cause.

Ah..the first cause theory. Which states, just because.

*nods sagely*

The prevailing theory is that the first event to occur in our universe was the "big bang". Who or what caused it?

Evolution.

I have not proofed this as yet but will be posting it soon. Have a look at the logic trail and see what you think.

===========

Evolution, to a believer, must be seen as real, but not having a beginning, if God has life.


Evolution is an explanation of how life began.


God, if he were real, is said to have eternal life without a beginning. If God is eternal, and has life, then life must also be eternal and without a beginning just as is attributed to God.


Therefore, life and evolution of life must, to a believer; be eternal and without a beginning just like God.



Life then, to a believer; had no beginning just as believers believe God had no beginning. God is life.


This fits well into the law of evolution, which posits that life came to earth from space, which provided the earth with the building blocks of human life.


If an evolving process like evolution is real, which it is, then any original version of God must be in a constant state of evolution and change. That is what makes God unknowable.



Is life, to intelligent believers, eternal and without a beginning?


Regards

DL

First of all evolution does not describe how life emerged from inorganic matter. Evolution describes how life evolved after it made the leap from inorganic matter to living organisms.

Secondly it does no go to reason that if God is eternal than life which emerged from inanimate matter is eternal. God is not made up of matter and energy like us. The closest we can come to understanding the nature of God is consciousness without form. There is no thing in space and time that we compare to God because God is no thing.

 

[GreatestIam]

There cannot be an infinite regression of causes; there must be a single, uncaused cause.

Ah..the first cause theory. Which states, just because.

*nods sagely*

The prevailing theory is that the first event to occur in our universe was the "big bang". Who or what caused it?

Evolution.

I have not proofed this as yet but will be posting it soon. Have a look at the logic trail and see what you think.

===========

Evolution, to a believer, must be seen as real, but not having a beginning, if God has life.


Evolution is an explanation of how life began.


God, if he were real, is said to have eternal life without a beginning. If God is eternal, and has life, then life must also be eternal and without a beginning just as is attributed to God.


Therefore, life and evolution of life must, to a believer; be eternal and without a beginning just like God.



Life then, to a believer; had no beginning just as believers believe God had no beginning. God is life.


This fits well into the law of evolution, which posits that life came to earth from space, which provided the earth with the building blocks of human life.


If an evolving process like evolution is real, which it is, then any original version of God must be in a constant state of evolution and change. That is what makes God unknowable.



Is life, to intelligent believers, eternal and without a beginning?


Regards

DL

First of all evolution does not describe how life emerged from inorganic matter. Evolution describes how life evolved after it made the leap from inorganic matter to living organisms.

Secondly it does no go to reason that if God is eternal than life which emerged from inanimate matter is eternal. God is not made up of matter and energy like us. The closest we can come to understanding the nature of God is consciousness without form. There is no thing in space and time that we compare to God because God is no thing.

If not matter, then God could not cuckold Joseph.

You just killed the idea of the virgin birth. Good for you.

Tell us how you know what you said about God to be true.

How do you know there is even a supernatural realm?

Hear say, faith, or facts?

Faith without facts is for fools and you mostly fit that requirement, FMPOV.

Regards
DL

 

[K9Buck]

"Faith without facts is for fools and you mostly fit that requirement..."

Did you make up that statement all by yourself?

Faith without evidence would be more appropriate. Once a concept becomes established fact, faith no longer applies.

There is a preponderance of evidence for a creator, your desire that there not be one notwithstanding.

 

[ding]

If not matter, then God could not cuckold Joseph.

You just killed the idea of the virgin birth. Good for you.

Like I said before it is not possible for matter and energy to exist outside of space and time because the existence of matter and energy creates space and time. It also isn’t possible for matter and energy to exist forever without reaching thermal equilibrium. So as uncomfortable as it is for you to accept space and time were created by spirit. So if spirit can create space and time then spirit can alter space and time. So there was no cuckholding Joseph. Joseph was a righteous dude.

Tell us how you know what you said about God to be true.

I just did. God cannot be energy and matter like us. There is no thing that can describe God because God is no thing. God is a phenomenon that is beyond our comprehension. The closest we can come is consciousness without form.

How do you know there is even a supernatural realm?

Hear say, faith, or facts?

Because the only solution to the first cause conundrum is something which is eternal and unchanging. The only thing that fits that description is spirit or consciousness without form.

Faith without facts is for fools and you mostly fit that requirement, FMPOV.

Faith is having complete trust in something or someone. I never put complete trust in anything without good reason. But anyone can test what I am saying by entering into a relationship with the creator of existence to see for themselves.

 

[GreatestIam]

"Faith without facts is for fools and you mostly fit that requirement..."

Did you make up that statement all by yourself?

Faith without evidence would be more appropriate. Once a concept becomes established fact, faith no longer applies.

There is a preponderance of evidence for a creator, your desire that there not be one notwithstanding.

???

Evidences are facts.

What preponderance of evidence?

Regards
DL

 

[GreatestIam]

If not matter, then God could not cuckold Joseph.

You just killed the idea of the virgin birth. Good for you.

Like I said before it is not possible for matter and energy to exist outside of space and time because the existence of matter and energy creates space and time. It also isn’t possible for matter and energy to exist forever without reaching thermal equilibrium. So as uncomfortable as it is for you to accept space and time were created by spirit. So if spirit can create space and time then spirit can alter space and time. So there was no cuckholding Joseph. Joseph was a righteous dude.

Tell us how you know what you said about God to be true.

I just did. God cannot be energy and matter like us. There is no thing that can describe God because God is no thing. God is a phenomenon that is beyond our comprehension. The closest we can come is consciousness without form.

How do you know there is even a supernatural realm?

Hear say, faith, or facts?

Because the only solution to the first cause conundrum is something which is eternal and unchanging. The only thing that fits that description is spirit or consciousness without form.

Faith without facts is for fools and you mostly fit that requirement, FMPOV.

Faith is having complete trust in something or someone. I never put complete trust in anything without good reason. But anyone can test what I am saying by entering into a relationship with the creator of existence to see for themselves.

IOW. You believe your speculative nonsense and have no evidence or proof to back up your delusional beliefs.

You are a waste of air.

Regards
DL

 

[Taz]

If not matter, then God could not cuckold Joseph.

You just killed the idea of the virgin birth. Good for you.

Like I said before it is not possible for matter and energy to exist outside of space and time because the existence of matter and energy creates space and time. It also isn’t possible for matter and energy to exist forever without reaching thermal equilibrium. So as uncomfortable as it is for you to accept space and time were created by spirit. So if spirit can create space and time then spirit can alter space and time. So there was no cuckholding Joseph. Joseph was a righteous dude.

Tell us how you know what you said about God to be true.

I just did. God cannot be energy and matter like us. There is no thing that can describe God because God is no thing. God is a phenomenon that is beyond our comprehension. The closest we can come is consciousness without form.

How do you know there is even a supernatural realm?

Hear say, faith, or facts?

Because the only solution to the first cause conundrum is something which is eternal and unchanging. The only thing that fits that description is spirit or consciousness without form.

Faith without facts is for fools and you mostly fit that requirement, FMPOV.

Faith is having complete trust in something or someone. I never put complete trust in anything without good reason. But anyone can test what I am saying by entering into a relationship with the creator of existence to see for themselves.

If god is beyond your comprehension then why do you say that you have proof for god?

 

[K9Buck]

"Faith without facts is for fools and you mostly fit that requirement..."

Did you make up that statement all by yourself?

Faith without evidence would be more appropriate. Once a concept becomes established fact, faith no longer applies.

There is a preponderance of evidence for a creator, your desire that there not be one notwithstanding.

Evidences are facts.

DL

evidence
[ev-i-duhns]
|||
SEE MORE SYNONYMS FOR evidence ON THESAURUS.COM
noun
that which tends to prove or disprove something;ground for belief; proof.
something that makes plain or clear; an indicationor sign:His flushed look was visible evidence of his fever.
Law . data presented to a court or jury in proof of the facts in issue and which may include thetestimony of witnesses, records, documents, or objects.

 

[GreatestIam]

"Faith without facts is for fools and you mostly fit that requirement..."

Did you make up that statement all by yourself?

Faith without evidence would be more appropriate. Once a concept becomes established fact, faith no longer applies.

There is a preponderance of evidence for a creator, your desire that there not be one notwithstanding.

Evidences are facts.

DL

evidence
[ev-i-duhns]
|||
SEE MORE SYNONYMS FOR evidence ON THESAURUS.COM
noun
that which tends to prove or disprove something;ground for belief; proof.
something that makes plain or clear; an indicationor sign:His flushed look was visible evidence of his fever.
Law . data presented to a court or jury in proof of the facts in issue and which may include thetestimony of witnesses, records, documents, or objects.

Thanks for making my case. Note the word facts in the description.

Regards
DL

 

[K9Buck]

"Faith without facts is for fools and you mostly fit that requirement..."

Did you make up that statement all by yourself?

Faith without evidence would be more appropriate. Once a concept becomes established fact, faith no longer applies.

There is a preponderance of evidence for a creator, your desire that there not be one notwithstanding.

Evidences are facts.

DL

evidence
[ev-i-duhns]
|||
SEE MORE SYNONYMS FOR evidence ON THESAURUS.COM
noun
that which tends to prove or disprove something;ground for belief; proof.
something that makes plain or clear; an indicationor sign:His flushed look was visible evidence of his fever.
Law . data presented to a court or jury in proof of the facts in issue and which may include thetestimony of witnesses, records, documents, or objects.

Thanks for making my case. Note the word facts in the description.

Regards
DL

Either your reading comprehension is lacking or you're just a liar. Which is it?

 

[GreatestIam]

"Faith without facts is for fools and you mostly fit that requirement..."

Did you make up that statement all by yourself?

Faith without evidence would be more appropriate. Once a concept becomes established fact, faith no longer applies.

There is a preponderance of evidence for a creator, your desire that there not be one notwithstanding.

Evidences are facts.

DL

evidence
[ev-i-duhns]
|||
SEE MORE SYNONYMS FOR evidence ON THESAURUS.COM
noun
that which tends to prove or disprove something;ground for belief; proof.
something that makes plain or clear; an indicationor sign:His flushed look was visible evidence of his fever.
Law . data presented to a court or jury in proof of the facts in issue and which may include thetestimony of witnesses, records, documents, or objects.

Thanks for making my case. Note the word facts in the description.

Regards
DL

Either your reading comprehension is lacking or you're just a liar. Which is it?

It seems that it is your reading that lack comprehension. That or you just don't know the meaning of the word synonym, which your definition showed.

Regards
DL

 

[ding]

If not matter, then God could not cuckold Joseph.

You just killed the idea of the virgin birth. Good for you.

Like I said before it is not possible for matter and energy to exist outside of space and time because the existence of matter and energy creates space and time. It also isn’t possible for matter and energy to exist forever without reaching thermal equilibrium. So as uncomfortable as it is for you to accept space and time were created by spirit. So if spirit can create space and time then spirit can alter space and time. So there was no cuckholding Joseph. Joseph was a righteous dude.

Tell us how you know what you said about God to be true.

I just did. God cannot be energy and matter like us. There is no thing that can describe God because God is no thing. God is a phenomenon that is beyond our comprehension. The closest we can come is consciousness without form.

How do you know there is even a supernatural realm?

Hear say, faith, or facts?

Because the only solution to the first cause conundrum is something which is eternal and unchanging. The only thing that fits that description is spirit or consciousness without form.

Faith without facts is for fools and you mostly fit that requirement, FMPOV.

Faith is having complete trust in something or someone. I never put complete trust in anything without good reason. But anyone can test what I am saying by entering into a relationship with the creator of existence to see for themselves.

If god is beyond your comprehension then why do you say that you have proof for god?

The only evidence we have at our disposal. Creation. Specifically, the laws of nature and how the evolution of space and time evolved and how space and time were created. But most importantly what happens when we test it.

 

[Taz]

If not matter, then God could not cuckold Joseph.

You just killed the idea of the virgin birth. Good for you.

Like I said before it is not possible for matter and energy to exist outside of space and time because the existence of matter and energy creates space and time. It also isn’t possible for matter and energy to exist forever without reaching thermal equilibrium. So as uncomfortable as it is for you to accept space and time were created by spirit. So if spirit can create space and time then spirit can alter space and time. So there was no cuckholding Joseph. Joseph was a righteous dude.

Tell us how you know what you said about God to be true.

I just did. God cannot be energy and matter like us. There is no thing that can describe God because God is no thing. God is a phenomenon that is beyond our comprehension. The closest we can come is consciousness without form.

How do you know there is even a supernatural realm?

Hear say, faith, or facts?

Because the only solution to the first cause conundrum is something which is eternal and unchanging. The only thing that fits that description is spirit or consciousness without form.

Faith without facts is for fools and you mostly fit that requirement, FMPOV.

Faith is having complete trust in something or someone. I never put complete trust in anything without good reason. But anyone can test what I am saying by entering into a relationship with the creator of existence to see for themselves.

If god is beyond your comprehension then why do you say that you have proof for god?

The only evidence we have at our disposal. Creation. Specifically, the laws of nature and how the evolution of space and time evolved and how space and time were created. But most importantly what happens when we test it.

You’re right, it is beyond your comprehension.

 

[ding]

If not matter, then God could not cuckold Joseph.

You just killed the idea of the virgin birth. Good for you.

Like I said before it is not possible for matter and energy to exist outside of space and time because the existence of matter and energy creates space and time. It also isn’t possible for matter and energy to exist forever without reaching thermal equilibrium. So as uncomfortable as it is for you to accept space and time were created by spirit. So if spirit can create space and time then spirit can alter space and time. So there was no cuckholding Joseph. Joseph was a righteous dude.

Tell us how you know what you said about God to be true.

I just did. God cannot be energy and matter like us. There is no thing that can describe God because God is no thing. God is a phenomenon that is beyond our comprehension. The closest we can come is consciousness without form.

How do you know there is even a supernatural realm?

Hear say, faith, or facts?

Because the only solution to the first cause conundrum is something which is eternal and unchanging. The only thing that fits that description is spirit or consciousness without form.

Faith without facts is for fools and you mostly fit that requirement, FMPOV.

Faith is having complete trust in something or someone. I never put complete trust in anything without good reason. But anyone can test what I am saying by entering into a relationship with the creator of existence to see for themselves.

IOW. You believe your speculative nonsense and have no evidence or proof to back up your delusional beliefs.

You are a waste of air.

Regards
DL

I have tons of evidence. It is all around us and in us. You are the one without evidence.

 

[ding]

If not matter, then God could not cuckold Joseph.

You just killed the idea of the virgin birth. Good for you.

Like I said before it is not possible for matter and energy to exist outside of space and time because the existence of matter and energy creates space and time. It also isn’t possible for matter and energy to exist forever without reaching thermal equilibrium. So as uncomfortable as it is for you to accept space and time were created by spirit. So if spirit can create space and time then spirit can alter space and time. So there was no cuckholding Joseph. Joseph was a righteous dude.

Tell us how you know what you said about God to be true.

I just did. God cannot be energy and matter like us. There is no thing that can describe God because God is no thing. God is a phenomenon that is beyond our comprehension. The closest we can come is consciousness without form.

How do you know there is even a supernatural realm?

Hear say, faith, or facts?

Because the only solution to the first cause conundrum is something which is eternal and unchanging. The only thing that fits that description is spirit or consciousness without form.

Faith without facts is for fools and you mostly fit that requirement, FMPOV.

Faith is having complete trust in something or someone. I never put complete trust in anything without good reason. But anyone can test what I am saying by entering into a relationship with the creator of existence to see for themselves.

If god is beyond your comprehension then why do you say that you have proof for god?

The only evidence we have at our disposal. Creation. Specifically, the laws of nature and how the evolution of space and time evolved and how space and time were created. But most importantly what happens when we test it.

You’re right, it is beyond your comprehension.

The best we know is that God is not made up of matter and energy like us. God is beyond matter and energy. We can’t comprehend that. The closest we can come to understanding the nature of God is that God is consciousness without form.