Zone1 A Little Common Sense Please

[Fort Fun Indiana]

"Whites are individuals”​

Tue Nov 10th 2009 by abagond

“Whites are individuals” is a common argument brought up by White Americans. It is part of a set of closely related arguments:and

• Whites are individuals. There are all kinds – bikers, soccer moms, coal miners, business men, goths, etc – so you cannot make general statements about them.
• To make a general statement about Whites is itself racist. It is stereotyping them. It is hypocritical. It is seeing them according to skin colour and that is racist.
• The “not all Whites” argument: “All Whites are not like that”. They bring this up even when no one said all Whites were anything. But that is how they heard it. It amounts a straw man argument.

“Whites are individuals”

“Whites are individuals” is a common argument brought up by White Americans. It is part of a set of closely related arguments: Whites are individuals. There are all kinds – bikers…

abagond.wordpress.com

Let me start with this. In the discussion of race here there seems to be 2 camps relative to white members.

1. Whites who recognize that criticism of past/present racism doesn't apply to them if they don't practice it, yet understand the long term damage it has caused.

2. Whites who deny and make excuses ignoring the impact of past/current racism and declare people are racists because they talk about racism and that because they talk about whites who are currently practicing racism, they are blaming every white person that ever existed or is alive today of being a racist.

See, this is where the understanding of history is important. First, during the course of American history, not every single white person was a racist. In fact, during the 1600's many black and white slaves and the indentured servants had no problem with each other. The division came when wealthy whites who feared that if the two groups unified, they would lose control and money, so they, rich white men, invented the race card

During slavery, there were whites along the underground railroad that helped blacks escape slavery. Everybody here knows that. But it seems that one section of whites do not want a real discussion about race. They want to run off about "black culture" and we're all just supposed to nod our heads and take their suggestions as to what blacks need to do.

While all whites have not practiced racism, the American system was created based on white racial preference. While all whites are not racists, there is a subculture in the white community that is. That subculture exists right now in the third decade of the twenty-first century, still making comments like this:

“I have innumerable faults, but ignoring reality isn’t one of them. Poor white trash that vote for Trump, hey, they aren’t burning down cities and, what’s the thing about black rapers and dominance and homophobia and killing cops. We all know poor black culture is toxic. Deep down in your dark heart, poor black culture is anti-human and toxic to everyone and you know it.”

This was said by a member here

My point here is that you have not seen a post from blacks here blaming all whites for anything, because we know all whites are not the problem. But we aren't going to pretend that no whites are just because there are whites who do not want America to really be unified. So if there is to be a real discussion, some whites here need to end the hysterics. Saying that the root cause of the problems blacks face is white racism is NOT saying that the root cause is white people. It IS saying that a behavior practiced by a subculture in the white community causes problems. A subculture is part of a culture, not all of it. Therefore no one is blaming all whites for anything.

We love our stereotypes as a species. It is one of the tools we use to wrap our puny minds around larger, more complicated issues. It will always be so.

It's time to ignore racists, IMO. Who cares? Let them be racist. People will agree with them or not agree with them.

Focus only on systemic problems and actions. Violations of civil rights, systemically racist outcomes, etc.

The fact is, people will ALWAYS be racist, insomuch as they will be xenophobic. It's hard wired. If Grandma June doesn't like black folk, then so be it. Leave Grandma June the fuck alone. She can think what she wants.

If a community proposes a bill that would lead to a systemically racist result, explain that and lobby against it.

Two different approaches. Only ONE actually works.

 

[IM2]

I'd say you have little to none
Which supports usmbs very own conspiracy theory that you're a White progressive woman

Keep on believing that. And while you're at it, there is a sale for lunar cheese at your local supermarket.

 

[IM2]

We love our stereotypes as a species. It is one of the tools we use to wrap our puny minds around larger, more complicated issues. It will always be so.

It's time to ignore racists, IMO. Who cares? Let them be racist. People will agree with them or not agree with them.

Focus only on systemic problems and actions. Violations of civil rights, systemically racist outcomes, etc.

The fact is, people will ALWAYS be racist, insomuch as they will be xenophobic. It's hard wired. If Grandma June doesn't like black folk, then so be it. Leave Grandma June the fuck alone. She can think what she wants.

If a community proposes a bill that would lead to a systemically racist result, explain that and lobby against it.

Two different approaches. Only ONE actually works.

I've done that approach. It does work sometimes. But you have to start with the mindset that makes people create those policies. Once you start addressing the mindset, then you can create public pressure. Rest assured that there is a method to this and in time you guys will see why this has been done.

 

[IM2]

With all due respect, ignoring racism allows it to continue. Sufficient effort has not been made by whites to stop this or reduce it to irrelevance. It is easy to say just ignore racists when you aren't the ones they target. After a while you get tired of it when you see that ignoring it doesn't stop it.

 

[Fort Fun Indiana]

But you have to start with the mindset that makes people create those policies.

I get that. Valid point.

So you teach the better mindset. You don't shit on the wrong one. Easier said than done, I know. But nonetheless, I think this is absolutely key to achieving equity.

Advocacy over cancellation/vandalism.

 

[IM2]

I get that. Valid point.

So you teach the better mindset. You don't shit on the wrong one. Easier said than done, I know. But nonetheless, I think this is absolutely key to achieving equity.

Advocacy over cancellation/vandalism.

Vandalism usually comes when the advocacy doesn't work. The George Floyd protests were caused because a cop was still able to kill an unarmed black man after blacks had been advocating for change in policing for the thousandth time in U.S. history. Also, much of the vandalism was done by outside groups who were not black. But in usual fashion blacks got blamed.

As for cancellation, racist symbols and past participants in racism who have been immortalized need to be canceled. Nobody in Germany had any problem with canceling nazis. The same thing should apply to racism here. Now please stop repeating that narrative.

 

[Fort Fun Indiana]

Vandalism usually comes when the advocacy doesn't work.

true.

But still we advocate.

What pulled down the "no ni88ers allowed" signs?

Was it chaos, and the meeting of every street-level challenge?

Or was it something else? Which street death on either side decided it? None.

What decided it was an informed Congress, held accountable to the public.

 

[IM2]

true.

But still we advocate.

What pulled down the "no ni88ers allowed" signs?

Was it chaos, and the meeting of every street-level challenge?

Or was it something else? Which street death on either side decided it? None.

What decided it was an informed Congress, held accountable to the public.

Actually it was a combination of marching, chaos and death over about 100 years.

I agree that advocacy is important.

 

[johngaltshrugged]

Yes you are. Because whites have higher crime and violence including a 246 year record of atrocities in America against people of color. There is no poverty plantation and the root cause of the problems blacks face is white racism. When you really do the inspection you see this is the correct assessment. You haven't done that. The bad decision has been wites in power choosing to practice racism.

Well, since we are the largest block in the country, by far, that makes sense.

Ignoring the fact blacks have much higher rates of violence & crime is being dishonest.

There are no laws instituting racism unless you count Affirmative Action. If you live in an area where the people you put in charge are still discriminating in a racist way, that's on you. Stop voting for Dems & you'll see things improve

 

[Fort Fun Indiana]

Actually it was a combination of marching, chaos and death over about 100 years.

Think about that. 100 years of chaos, marching, and death.

Would you like to wait another 100 years for more progress? If so, stick to that game plan.

Advocacy. Get the ideas on systemic problems and problematic laws out there. So much that people cannot avoid talking about them.

 

[Woodznutz]

No you can't. That's the problem. You believe this as if everything is exactly the same.

People of color generally understand the damage from past/current racism because we arre affected by it. But my overall point is that not all whites are being blamed and that people need to consider this when race is discussed.

But all whites are being asked to pony up for reparations (as well as share the guilt), aren't we?

 

[Superbadbrutha]

They are called Republicans, jackass.

The political party that supported slavery, implemented Jim Crow laws, the one drop rule that even the Nazi's thought was too racist, and constantly supports racism is called the Democratic party, you clueless jackass party of racism and slavery supporter.

Why do you support the Democratic party of slavery rather than the Republican party that was formed specifically to end slavery and give blacks equal rights?

Tell me Muhammad how many Southern Republican Congressmen and Senators voted for the CRA/VRA?

How many Republicans voted for the John Lewis Voting Bill?

How many Republicans voted for police reform?

 

[Superbadbrutha]

But all whites are being asked to pony up for reparations (as well as share the guilt), aren't we?

The United States paid the former slaveowners reparations after the Civil War.

 

[fncceo]

How many Republicans voted for police reform?

We need less police reform and more criminal reform.

 

[Superbadbrutha]

We need less police reform and more criminal reform.

Well when the police are part of the criminal enterprise they go hand and hand.

 

[BackAgain]

No ... the Vulcan's are a-holes and they know what they did.

Your just picking on green beings.

 

[IM2]

You can replace the word "white" with black, brown, Asian, Mexican, etc....
And both statements will still be valid points.

So, what IS your point?

No, actually you can't. Everybody has not had the same experience here.

 

[Woodznutz]

The United States paid the former slaveowners reparations after the Civil War.

In 1862 slaveowners in Washington D.C. were paid for freeing their slaves.

Did Slave Owners Receive Compensation for the Loss of Slaves?

Did Slave Owners Receive Compensation for the Loss of Slaves?

www.historynet.com

 

[Superbadbrutha]

In 1862 slaveowners in Washington D.C. were paid for freeing their slaves.

Did Slave Owners Receive Compensation for the Loss of Slaves?

Did Slave Owners Receive Compensation for the Loss of Slaves?

www.historynet.com

On January 16, 1865, General William Tecumseh Sherman issued Special Field Order №15 which provided for confiscation of 400,000 acres of land on the Atlantic Coast of Florida, Georgia and South Carolina. Other orders and Acts were intended to distribute lands throughout the South to freed slaves. Congress also directed that confiscated lands be given to former slaves, in some cases loaned mules to work the farms.

President Johnson, however, was partial to any former Confederate who swore a loyalty oath. At one point, there were conflicting orders that confiscated lands be distributed to former slaves and loyal Southerners. After complaints from his Southern friends, Johnson soon cleared that up and gave practically all that land to its former owners, taking the land back that slaves had made improvements on, granting it without compensation to the men that formerly owned them

The Compromise of 1877 meant the Federal government abandoned the South and removed the Federal Troops. In 1888, Posse Comitatus ensured that Federal Troops would never return. Reconstruction was over and Jim Crow was ushered in. Slavery begat the Black Codes which begat Jim Crow, all a form or legalizing the racial inequality benefiting white people, in other words, reparations for white people.

That Time White Slaveowners Got Reparations While Slaves Didn’t Get 40 Acres and a Mule

“It is time for us to simply realize that … when it comes to the economic gap between blacks and whites in America, it does come from a great injustice that has never been dealt with."

goodmenproject.com

 

[Woodznutz]

On January 16, 1865, General William Tecumseh Sherman issued Special Field Order №15 which provided for confiscation of 400,000 acres of land on the Atlantic Coast of Florida, Georgia and South Carolina. Other orders and Acts were intended to distribute lands throughout the South to freed slaves. Congress also directed that confiscated lands be given to former slaves, in some cases loaned mules to work the farms.

President Johnson, however, was partial to any former Confederate who swore a loyalty oath. At one point, there were conflicting orders that confiscated lands be distributed to former slaves and loyal Southerners. After complaints from his Southern friends, Johnson soon cleared that up and gave practically all that land to its former owners, taking the land back that slaves had made improvements on, granting it without compensation to the men that formerly owned them

The Compromise of 1877 meant the Federal government abandoned the South and removed the Federal Troops. In 1888, Posse Comitatus ensured that Federal Troops would never return. Reconstruction was over and Jim Crow was ushered in. Slavery begat the Black Codes which begat Jim Crow, all a form or legalizing the racial inequality benefiting white people, in other words, reparations for white people.

That Time White Slaveowners Got Reparations While Slaves Didn’t Get 40 Acres and a Mule

“It is time for us to simply realize that … when it comes to the economic gap between blacks and whites in America, it does come from a great injustice that has never been dealt with."

goodmenproject.com

Who should pay reparations, and to whom should they be paid?