A curious German weapon

[Bleipriester]

this was shot in 1945 by that time Germany had lost most trained and skilled pilots

There weren't that many Me 262's produced.....and they took a fairly high level of skill to fly.

So only seasoned combat pilot's were recruited to fly the 262. .....

"Only" 1433.

LOL

What´s up?

 

[jon_berzerk]

this was shot in 1945 by that time Germany had lost most trained and skilled pilots

There weren't that many Me 262's produced.....and they took a fairly high level of skill to fly.

So only seasoned combat pilot's were recruited to fly the 262. .....

"Only" 1433.

LOL

What´s up?

i like the only 1433

--LOL

 

[Bleipriester]

this was shot in 1945 by that time Germany had lost most trained and skilled pilots

There weren't that many Me 262's produced.....and they took a fairly high level of skill to fly.

So only seasoned combat pilot's were recruited to fly the 262. .....

"Only" 1433.

LOL

What´s up?

i like the only 1433

--LOL

ok, then

 

[browsing deer]

The problems were building things in quantity, getting qualified crews. Both of which were hampered by ideology.

In other words, craziness and insanity prevented them from the goal of insanity

 

[Bleipriester]

The problems were building things in quantity, getting qualified crews. Both of which were hampered by ideology.

In other words, craziness and insanity prevented them from the goal of insanity

Assumption. There were dozens of aviation companies in Germany and none of them was dedicated to the Nazi ideology. Junkers was even forced to sell his company to the Nazis when he refused to make war planes.

The problem was neither quantity nor qualified crews. In fact, the capacity of the German war industry was limited. 36.000 Bf 109 (Me 109 after Messerschmitt purchased the Bayerische Flugzeugwerke) were produced but don´t think a plane has been produced at one place. Parts from all across the country were then assembled in certain facilities. You see, various planes were conceived mostly upon ITBs but any series production of another plane would have decreased the output of Bf 109 further.

 

[Syriusly]

I share with you photos of one of the most curious designs of the Luftwaffe during World War II. I'm talking about Junkers Ju-287 and its unusual design. If it had entered into service and built in quantity would have changed the course of the war? What do you think? I found this website that provides information about this aircraft. Visit the link below, you will find it a lot of photos and a full report on this almost unknown aircraft. I hope you enjoy.


Aviação em Floripa: Uma arma curiosa


Best Regards!

if and maybe- far more important would have been for the Luftwaffe to have had quantities of Me-262's, and the fuel and pilots to fly them- frankly with the V2 Germany didn't have as much need for the Ju-287.

 

[Picaro]

The ME-262 couldn't stay in the air long enough to be a major deterrent to the scale of Allied bombing sorties anyway. Yes, Hitler had all kinds of 'super weapon' fantasies, but that only speeded up his demise, throwing resources at fantastic plans. The Soviets had the luxury of almost complete air superiority in their theatre for the lack of German aircraft and AA on the eastern front; the ME-262 or anything else wouldn't have changed that much, nor could the ME-262 have stopped or threatened Allied air superiority at any time during the war.

 

[Bleipriester]

The ME-262 couldn't stay in the air long enough to be a major deterrent to the scale of Allied bombing sorties anyway. Yes, Hitler had all kinds of 'super weapon' fantasies, but that only speeded up his demise, throwing resources at fantastic plans. The Soviets had the luxury of almost complete air superiority in their theatre for the lack of German aircraft and AA on the eastern front; the ME-262 or anything else wouldn't have changed that much, nor could the ME-262 have stopped or threatened Allied air superiority at any time during the war.

Me 262 was a major threat for bombers with its 20 and 30 mm guns, radar and RTM air to air missiles, which could be launched by the radar automatically when the scheduled range was reached, mostly 400 meters. The range of the Me 262 was over 1000 Km.

Me 262 with Neptun FuG 217 radar

Russian air superiority was a myth: Most of their planes were ground attack planes. Such planes have no effects on air combat.
Ilyushin Il-2 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Both the Bf 109 and the Il-2 claim to be the most produced plane of the world.

 

[Picaro]

The ME-262 couldn't stay in the air long enough to be a major deterrent to the scale of Allied bombing sorties anyway. Yes, Hitler had all kinds of 'super weapon' fantasies, but that only speeded up his demise, throwing resources at fantastic plans. The Soviets had the luxury of almost complete air superiority in their theatre for the lack of German aircraft and AA on the eastern front; the ME-262 or anything else wouldn't have changed that much, nor could the ME-262 have stopped or threatened Allied air superiority at any time during the war.

Me 262 was a major threat for bombers with its 20 and 30 mm guns, radar and RTM air to air missiles, which could be launched by the radar automatically when the scheduled range was reached, mostly 400 meters. The range of the Me 262 was over 1000 Km.

Me 262 with Neptun FuG 217 radar

Russian air superiority was a myth: Most of their planes were ground attack planes. Such planes have no effects on air combat.
Ilyushin Il-2 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Both the Bf 109 and the Il-2 claim to be the most produced plane of the world.

The ME-262 could stay in the air maybe 30 minutes at best. It also had few hits in its record that [point to any big success. The allies were going24/7 thousands of fighters and bombers in waves; all 300 Me in the air the same time wouldn't have made a dent or stopped even one group of raiders.

Russian air superiority is not a myth; Hitler used almost everything to fight off the Allied bombing campaigns in the West. The Soviets could even use old WW I biplanes, since there was no air opposition in most places. This was why it was so easy for both the Soviets and British to supply partisans behind German lines as well. The Russians didn't need to devote much to air superiority, since Hitler had already ceded it to them, which is why most of their craft were ground attack planes.

 

[Bleipriester]

The ME-262 could stay in the air maybe 30 minutes at best. It also had few hits in its record that [point to any big success. The allies were going24/7 thousands of fighters and bombers in waves; all 300 Me in the air the same time wouldn't have made a dent or stopped even one group of raiders.

30 minutes? Link?
However, the question is not if the Me 262 was a game changer. Average life expectancy of an allied bomber crew was limited to few flights, though.

Russian air superiority is not a myth; Hitler used almost everything to fight off the Allied bombing campaigns in the West. The Soviets could even use old WW I biplanes, since there was no air opposition in most places. This was why it was so easy for both the Soviets and British to supply partisans behind German lines as well. The Russians didn't need to devote much to air superiority, since Hitler had already ceded it to them, which is why most of their craft were ground attack planes.

Vast nonsense. If we´d reduce the WWII to the eastern front, nobody would notice the fraud.

Air warfare of World War II - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[Picaro]

The ME-262 could stay in the air maybe 30 minutes at best. It also had few hits in its record that [point to any big success. The allies were going24/7 thousands of fighters and bombers in waves; all 300 Me in the air the same time wouldn't have made a dent or stopped even one group of raiders.

30 minutes? Link?
However, the question is not if the Me 262 was a game changer. Average life expectancy of an allied bomber crew was limited to few flights, though.

Russian air superiority is not a myth; Hitler used almost everything to fight off the Allied bombing campaigns in the West. The Soviets could even use old WW I biplanes, since there was no air opposition in most places. This was why it was so easy for both the Soviets and British to supply partisans behind German lines as well. The Russians didn't need to devote much to air superiority, since Hitler had already ceded it to them, which is why most of their craft were ground attack planes.

Vast nonsense. If we´d reduce the WWII to the eastern front, nobody would notice the fraud.

Air warfare of World War II - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

You can argue all you want, most analyses of the eastern front conclude I'm right, and the Soviets had air superiority for the last 27 months of the war. I have no idea what 'fraud' you're talking about. Germany never had air superiority on the western front at all after Hitler attacked the U.S.

 

[Bleipriester]

The ME-262 could stay in the air maybe 30 minutes at best. It also had few hits in its record that [point to any big success. The allies were going24/7 thousands of fighters and bombers in waves; all 300 Me in the air the same time wouldn't have made a dent or stopped even one group of raiders.

30 minutes? Link?
However, the question is not if the Me 262 was a game changer. Average life expectancy of an allied bomber crew was limited to few flights, though.

Russian air superiority is not a myth; Hitler used almost everything to fight off the Allied bombing campaigns in the West. The Soviets could even use old WW I biplanes, since there was no air opposition in most places. This was why it was so easy for both the Soviets and British to supply partisans behind German lines as well. The Russians didn't need to devote much to air superiority, since Hitler had already ceded it to them, which is why most of their craft were ground attack planes.

Vast nonsense. If we´d reduce the WWII to the eastern front, nobody would notice the fraud.

Air warfare of World War II - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

You can argue all you want, most analyses of the eastern front conclude I'm right, and the Soviets had air superiority for the last 27 months of the war. I have no idea what 'fraud' you're talking about. Germany never had air superiority on the western front at all after Hitler attacked the U.S.

You can read about the losses of the countries in the Wehrmachtbericht.
German WWII "war diary"

 

[jon_berzerk]

The ME-262 couldn't stay in the air long enough to be a major deterrent to the scale of Allied bombing sorties anyway. Yes, Hitler had all kinds of 'super weapon' fantasies, but that only speeded up his demise, throwing resources at fantastic plans. The Soviets had the luxury of almost complete air superiority in their theatre for the lack of German aircraft and AA on the eastern front; the ME-262 or anything else wouldn't have changed that much, nor could the ME-262 have stopped or threatened Allied air superiority at any time during the war.

Me 262 was a major threat for bombers with its 20 and 30 mm guns, radar and RTM air to air missiles, which could be launched by the radar automatically when the scheduled range was reached, mostly 400 meters. The range of the Me 262 was over 1000 Km.

Me 262 with Neptun FuG 217 radar

Russian air superiority was a myth: Most of their planes were ground attack planes. Such planes have no effects on air combat.
Ilyushin Il-2 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Both the Bf 109 and the Il-2 claim to be the most produced plane of the world.

The ME-262 could stay in the air maybe 30 minutes at best. It also had few hits in its record that [point to any big success. The allies were going24/7 thousands of fighters and bombers in waves; all 300 Me in the air the same time wouldn't have made a dent or stopped even one group of raiders.

Russian air superiority is not a myth; Hitler used almost everything to fight off the Allied bombing campaigns in the West. The Soviets could even use old WW I biplanes, since there was no air opposition in most places. This was why it was so easy for both the Soviets and British to supply partisans behind German lines as well. The Russians didn't need to devote much to air superiority, since Hitler had already ceded it to them, which is why most of their craft were ground attack planes.

ME-262 could stay in the air maybe 30 minutes at best


no it had a 60 to 90 minute ability to stay aloft

had the biggest guns of any aircraft of the day

 

[Picaro]

The ME-262 couldn't stay in the air long enough to be a major deterrent to the scale of Allied bombing sorties anyway. Yes, Hitler had all kinds of 'super weapon' fantasies, but that only speeded up his demise, throwing resources at fantastic plans. The Soviets had the luxury of almost complete air superiority in their theatre for the lack of German aircraft and AA on the eastern front; the ME-262 or anything else wouldn't have changed that much, nor could the ME-262 have stopped or threatened Allied air superiority at any time during the war.

Me 262 was a major threat for bombers with its 20 and 30 mm guns, radar and RTM air to air missiles, which could be launched by the radar automatically when the scheduled range was reached, mostly 400 meters. The range of the Me 262 was over 1000 Km.

Me 262 with Neptun FuG 217 radar

Russian air superiority was a myth: Most of their planes were ground attack planes. Such planes have no effects on air combat.
Ilyushin Il-2 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Both the Bf 109 and the Il-2 claim to be the most produced plane of the world.

The ME-262 could stay in the air maybe 30 minutes at best. It also had few hits in its record that [point to any big success. The allies were going24/7 thousands of fighters and bombers in waves; all 300 Me in the air the same time wouldn't have made a dent or stopped even one group of raiders.

Russian air superiority is not a myth; Hitler used almost everything to fight off the Allied bombing campaigns in the West. The Soviets could even use old WW I biplanes, since there was no air opposition in most places. This was why it was so easy for both the Soviets and British to supply partisans behind German lines as well. The Russians didn't need to devote much to air superiority, since Hitler had already ceded it to them, which is why most of their craft were ground attack planes.

ME-262 could stay in the air maybe 30 minutes at best


no it had a 60 to 90 minute ability to stay aloft

had the biggest guns of any aircraft of the day

Loitering time would be half that at best; extra fuel loads would add to that, but then that would defeat the effectiveness and maneuverability. Its weapons were also inaccurate at medium to long ranges, so they had to get closer to their targets. It also took them longer to turn make more attacks. It just wasn't that effective an aircraft, and the Allies jet programs were also progressing well by 1945 anyway, better than what the Germans were developing. Even if all 1,400 or so were in combat service, they couldn't stay n the air long enough or cover the airspace well enough day and night to shut down the Allied air campaign.

 

[jon_berzerk]

The ME-262 couldn't stay in the air long enough to be a major deterrent to the scale of Allied bombing sorties anyway. Yes, Hitler had all kinds of 'super weapon' fantasies, but that only speeded up his demise, throwing resources at fantastic plans. The Soviets had the luxury of almost complete air superiority in their theatre for the lack of German aircraft and AA on the eastern front; the ME-262 or anything else wouldn't have changed that much, nor could the ME-262 have stopped or threatened Allied air superiority at any time during the war.

Me 262 was a major threat for bombers with its 20 and 30 mm guns, radar and RTM air to air missiles, which could be launched by the radar automatically when the scheduled range was reached, mostly 400 meters. The range of the Me 262 was over 1000 Km.

Me 262 with Neptun FuG 217 radar

Russian air superiority was a myth: Most of their planes were ground attack planes. Such planes have no effects on air combat.
Ilyushin Il-2 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Both the Bf 109 and the Il-2 claim to be the most produced plane of the world.

The ME-262 could stay in the air maybe 30 minutes at best. It also had few hits in its record that [point to any big success. The allies were going24/7 thousands of fighters and bombers in waves; all 300 Me in the air the same time wouldn't have made a dent or stopped even one group of raiders.

Russian air superiority is not a myth; Hitler used almost everything to fight off the Allied bombing campaigns in the West. The Soviets could even use old WW I biplanes, since there was no air opposition in most places. This was why it was so easy for both the Soviets and British to supply partisans behind German lines as well. The Russians didn't need to devote much to air superiority, since Hitler had already ceded it to them, which is why most of their craft were ground attack planes.

ME-262 could stay in the air maybe 30 minutes at best


no it had a 60 to 90 minute ability to stay aloft

had the biggest guns of any aircraft of the day

Loitering time would be half that at best; extra fuel loads would add to that, but then that would defeat the effectiveness and maneuverability. Its weapons were also inaccurate at medium to long ranges, so they had to get closer to their targets. It also took them longer to turn make more attacks. It just wasn't that effective an aircraft, and the Allies jet programs were also progressing well by 1945 anyway, better than what the Germans were developing. Even if all 1,400 or so were in combat service, they couldn't stay n the air long enough or cover the airspace well enough day and night to shut down the Allied air campaign.

although the ME 282 had some problems

loitering was not one of them

the primary purpose was a defensive interceptor

 

[Syriusly]

The ME-262 couldn't stay in the air long enough to be a major deterrent to the scale of Allied bombing sorties anyway. Yes, Hitler had all kinds of 'super weapon' fantasies, but that only speeded up his demise, throwing resources at fantastic plans. The Soviets had the luxury of almost complete air superiority in their theatre for the lack of German aircraft and AA on the eastern front; the ME-262 or anything else wouldn't have changed that much, nor could the ME-262 have stopped or threatened Allied air superiority at any time during the war.

Me 262 was a major threat for bombers with its 20 and 30 mm guns, radar and RTM air to air missiles, which could be launched by the radar automatically when the scheduled range was reached, mostly 400 meters. The range of the Me 262 was over 1000 Km.

Me 262 with Neptun FuG 217 radar

Russian air superiority was a myth: Most of their planes were ground attack planes. Such planes have no effects on air combat.
Ilyushin Il-2 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Both the Bf 109 and the Il-2 claim to be the most produced plane of the world.

The ME-262 could stay in the air maybe 30 minutes at best. It also had few hits in its record that [point to any big success. The allies were going24/7 thousands of fighters and bombers in waves; all 300 Me in the air the same time wouldn't have made a dent or stopped even one group of raiders..

If the Germans had had as many ME-262's in 1943 as they had BF109 and FW190 they could have shut down the air campaign and perhaps even gone after the Allied tactical air forces which were decimating any German tanks or trucks operating in the day time in open terrain.

Just all conjecture- the Germans were the reason why they would never 'have enough'

 

[jon_berzerk]

The ME-262 couldn't stay in the air long enough to be a major deterrent to the scale of Allied bombing sorties anyway. Yes, Hitler had all kinds of 'super weapon' fantasies, but that only speeded up his demise, throwing resources at fantastic plans. The Soviets had the luxury of almost complete air superiority in their theatre for the lack of German aircraft and AA on the eastern front; the ME-262 or anything else wouldn't have changed that much, nor could the ME-262 have stopped or threatened Allied air superiority at any time during the war.

Me 262 was a major threat for bombers with its 20 and 30 mm guns, radar and RTM air to air missiles, which could be launched by the radar automatically when the scheduled range was reached, mostly 400 meters. The range of the Me 262 was over 1000 Km.

Me 262 with Neptun FuG 217 radar

Russian air superiority was a myth: Most of their planes were ground attack planes. Such planes have no effects on air combat.
Ilyushin Il-2 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Both the Bf 109 and the Il-2 claim to be the most produced plane of the world.

The ME-262 could stay in the air maybe 30 minutes at best. It also had few hits in its record that [point to any big success. The allies were going24/7 thousands of fighters and bombers in waves; all 300 Me in the air the same time wouldn't have made a dent or stopped even one group of raiders..

If the Germans had had as many ME-262's in 1943 as they had BF109 and FW190 they could have shut down the air campaign and perhaps even gone after the Allied tactical air forces which were decimating any German tanks or trucks operating in the day time in open terrain.

Just all conjecture- the Germans were the reason why they would never 'have enough'

the main reason the German military had so much trouble

is that hitler interfered way too much in the matters of the military

 

[Bleipriester]

The ME-262 couldn't stay in the air long enough to be a major deterrent to the scale of Allied bombing sorties anyway. Yes, Hitler had all kinds of 'super weapon' fantasies, but that only speeded up his demise, throwing resources at fantastic plans. The Soviets had the luxury of almost complete air superiority in their theatre for the lack of German aircraft and AA on the eastern front; the ME-262 or anything else wouldn't have changed that much, nor could the ME-262 have stopped or threatened Allied air superiority at any time during the war.

Me 262 was a major threat for bombers with its 20 and 30 mm guns, radar and RTM air to air missiles, which could be launched by the radar automatically when the scheduled range was reached, mostly 400 meters. The range of the Me 262 was over 1000 Km.

Me 262 with Neptun FuG 217 radar

Russian air superiority was a myth: Most of their planes were ground attack planes. Such planes have no effects on air combat.
Ilyushin Il-2 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Both the Bf 109 and the Il-2 claim to be the most produced plane of the world.

The ME-262 could stay in the air maybe 30 minutes at best. It also had few hits in its record that [point to any big success. The allies were going24/7 thousands of fighters and bombers in waves; all 300 Me in the air the same time wouldn't have made a dent or stopped even one group of raiders..

If the Germans had had as many ME-262's in 1943 as they had BF109 and FW190 they could have shut down the air campaign and perhaps even gone after the Allied tactical air forces which were decimating any German tanks or trucks operating in the day time in open terrain.

Just all conjecture- the Germans were the reason why they would never 'have enough'

the main reason the German military had so much trouble

is that hitler interfered way too much in the matters of the military

Absolutely right. Hitler here, Hitler there. Still the same shit here, I just switched off the TV