A Conservative Speaks Up For Unions

[PoliticalChic]

Interesting. This post tends to show why PC is, indeed, a con tool. The third point, which says:

3. Ronald Reagan, though dismissed by Europeans as a second-rate actor and fondler of cue cards, possessed that magic faculty that separates run-of-the mill politicos from history-molding leaders. "I didn't understand", recalls Time's Joe Klein, "how truly monumental, and morally important,

Reagan's anti-communism was until I visited the Soviet Union in 1987." He continues with a seemingly trivial vignette. Attending the Bolshoi Ballet, he was nudged by his minder: "'Ronald Reagan. Evil empire', he whispered with dramatic intensity and shot a glance toward his lap where he had hidden two enthusiastic thumbs up. 'Yes!'"
When an American president manages to pluck the soul strings of those who have been raised to fear and despise what he represents, he surely deserves the honorific 'great.'

Now, this third point of PC really shows the fact that she truly worships Ronald. Those cons who worship Ronald tend to work at rewriting his exploits. So, maybe we should check her statements. I know that PC says she never lies. But some of what she has said in this post seem just a little dishonest.

PC says:

Nice to know that PC believes in deficit spending. However, I have no idea what this sentence is based on. Oddly, there is no link.
PC SAYS:

Again, PC, nice of you to admit that deficit spending helped. BUT, you kind of have things mixed up and you left out some things. For instance, from a time line point of view, the first thing that happened were the tax cuts you mentioned in your list of accomplishments. In Feb '81 reagan passed his huge tax decrease. You would remember, if you were old enough, how hard we were sold on the advantages of this tax decrease. Increasing gov revenue, reducing the deficit and most importantly, reducing unemployment from the relatively high 7.5% when he took office. So, 19 months later, the unemployment rate had gone up continually to an all time high since the great depression of 10.8% . The unemployment rate has never reached that point since. And gov revenues were way down. AND the deficit was GROWING FAST.
So, by late '82, the reagan admin new they had to act, and quickly. So, of course, PC would like us to remember the tax decrease, but that happened BEFORE and is widely believed by economists to have caused the problems that he was now facing. So, what did Reagan do. More supply side economics?? Another tax decrease?? Why, no, he borrowed and borrowed and borrowed. More than all the presidents before him combined. Tripled the national debt. And he increased taxes. Eleven, yes 11, times. And he used the revenue generated to spend in stimulative ways to fix the economy.
Just wanted to remind you of these facts, PC, cause I am sure they just slipped your mind.
then PC said:

and creating 45 million net new jobs

Wow. That would have been great, if it were true. It would be twice as many as Clinton, if true. Problem is, it is a lie. Really, PC. Not sure how you could have missed this one. According to the folks who keep these stats, the Reagan admin saw the creation of 16.1 million jobs. Which would make him number four among presidents since the 1950's, in jobs created per year. After Clinton, Carter, and Johnson. Just a little ahead of nixon.
Your second point, regarding technology, is great. You took quotes from George Gilder. A true con, without doubt. Far be it from PC to use any impartial sources. PC uses a source who has been and adviser to two republican us presidents and currently to Romney. Nice job, PC. Stay away from anything impartial.

Unemployment rate by month and year
Historical Unemployment Rates in the United States

Surplusses and deficits by year
Historical Unemployment Rates in the United States

Jobs created by president
U.S. Presidents from Which Party Create More Jobs - Democratic or Republican?

What brings you out from under your rock, worm.....

...was it the rain?

 

[PoliticalChic]

1. Many posts from the Right attack unions, as though they are the enemy of business and the free market

2. By conservative, I mean those who favor individualism, free markets, and limited constitutional government, and that the people are the best judges of what is right, and opportune.

3. The enemy of the above is the belief that big government infused with beneficent, all knowing experts and technocrats will lead all to ‘the promised land,’ to dole out ‘social justice.’

4. In the current shorthand, let's call this capitalism versus Marxism.

1. true

2. When states rights conservatives attack the Constitution they attack 'the people' as a nation. Conservatives often go against the people. It's a myth that they are for the people and others are not.

3. Another myth.

4. Let us not.

You have earned an "Incomplete."


You can do better, shirley.

 

[Procrustes Stretched]

5. But, the reality is that capitalist theory fell short as the size and complexity of the society increased. While capitalism is provably the best way to raise every level of society…it still left many behind for a multitude or reasons not related to the theory itself. Orthodox capitalist theory recognized only one kind of social control: competiton….modern society imposed social control rather than the automatic regulation of the ‘invisible hand.’ Thus the shift from self-regulation through economics to self-regulation through politics.

6. The adjustment of orthodox capitalist theory that blunted the threat of Marxist revolution is what Theodore Lowi, in “The End of Liberalism,” describes this way:

‘Today, the public policy is based on an amalgam of capitalism, statism, and interest-group liberalism. Both capitalist and Marxist analysis ignore the fact that there are a number of institution other than the state in an industrial civilization, because there are so very many interests, and organizations which represent those interests, and are willing to use power to attain same. Thus, any explanation of modern society requires a pluralist theory which posits many sources of power and control other than the state. Marxism is based on the idea of a unitary society, of a few homogenized classes. This is not possible in the contemporary culture.

a. By its nature, government in a democracy cannot act in a unitary manner: there are too many special interests that must be accommodated. In "Demosclerosis:: The Silent Killer of American Government," Jonathan Rauch points out that 7 out of 10 Americans belong to an interest group, and one out of four belong to at least four!

5. Orthodoxy and theory? Nuts.

6. Too much time on theory while ignoring the real world. Sort of like what caused Alan Greenspan to a mea culpa. Wong headed good intentions that a theory, if enacted properly, can cure all of society's ills

 

[Moonglow]

Nice topic, PC, and well presented. I have always supported unions--although I am in management, and I would not belong to one. Unions are (1) a balance to the lawlessness of capitalism, and (2) represent the embodiment of a democratic society. As Smith noted, capitalism can only succeed if it is well-regulated; and, in this era of diminishing federal presence as a protector of labor, we rely on unions because government has become the enemy of labor.

When unions are gone, we will see the rise of outright fascism.

Just like when there were no unions in the US of A. The workers were subjected to a harsh ideaology of the business owners. If we could trust those in the top tier their would be no need of unions, but that is not the case.
I am an independant contractor and every job I have done for a person that is well off is like performing and abortion to get my pay, they try to make you work for less than profit and I have even had to sue to get what is due.

 

[Procrustes Stretched]

7. Unions represent one of the interest group assemblies. They serve a valuable function, as do all interest groups, a safety valve for dissatisfaction and unhappiness. Without this safety valve, other, less desirable avenues of redress outside of the political might be availed: the revolution that Marx predicted.


8. I know that demands of unions are seen by many on the Right as deleterious, and disruptive. But, in business, the organization has the ability to judge the cost of not giving in to demands, and deciding in its own best interest.

a. Why is this not true for society? It is our elected representatives who rush to say “Aye” to union demands. So…who is at fault?

b. Laws should be designed to hold officials responsible for the results of their actions. They should not be immune from liability….beyond the time in office. In fact, they should be required to carry indemnity insurance that remains in effect long after terms in office, as costs don’t always show up in a timely manner.

c. Or....the political party of the office-holder may be held responsible.



9. Unions, and even excessive ‘demands’ are covered by the words of the 1st amendment: “no laws… interfering with the right to peaceably assemble or prohibiting the petitioning for a governmental redress of grievances.

If unions are the problem.....aren't political parties even more so?

7. Okay

8. b. insanity No one can be held responsible for what transpires after a law is passed. No one has control over it.

9. Nope. The public is the problem.

Money does not vote. If it did Nelson Rockefeller would have been President and Huffington's gayboy husband would have been a US Senator.

Money corrupts the 'process' not the system. People are ignorant and easily swayed by chatter and negative ads. Whose fault is that?

Negative ads don't make people stupid, people make themselves stupid

 

[Procrustes Stretched]

We have a two party system because the electorate is too lazy to start a new one from the ground up.

What people scream for is a Knight on a White Horse ( ) to throw their name into a third candidate run.

 

[Procrustes Stretched]

Why?

A strong President with vision knew how to handle a union.....President Reagan.

Ronald Reagan was an actor, not a president.

Public sector unions do not function well. They contribute money and resources to political candidates; those candidates are elected; once elected, the politicians repay the public sector unions through favorable labor contracts; the unions use their new funds to buy more politicians--and the new politicians sign off on even better union contracts.

Hence, you have monstrous and unfunded pension plans for police and firefighters.

"Ronald Reagan was an actor, not a president."
If that's the case, we should only elect actors.



1. Reagan's near-trillion-dollar bulge in defense spending transformed the global balance of power in favor of capitalism. Spurring a stock-market, energy, venture-capital, real-estate and employment boom, the Reagan tax-rate cuts and other pro-enterprise policies added some $17 trillion to America's private-sector assets, dwarfing the trillion-dollar rise in public-sector deficits and creating 45 million net new jobs at rising wages and salaries.

2. Ultimately the Reagan boom would raise private-sector assets by another $60 trillion over 20 years, not halting until 2007. Under the Obama administration, for the first time since the 1970s, the U.S. economy is suffering capital flight. For the first time ever, as economist David Malpass has reported, it is experiencing a net emigration of high-technology talent.
George Gilder: The Real Reagan Lesson for Romney-Ryan - WSJ.com


3. Ronald Reagan, though dismissed by Europeans as a second-rate actor and fondler of cue cards, possessed that magic faculty that separates run-of-the mill politicos from history-molding leaders. "I didn't understand", recalls Time's Joe Klein, "how truly monumental, and morally important, Reagan's anti-communism was until I visited the Soviet Union in 1987." He continues with a seemingly trivial vignette. Attending the Bolshoi Ballet, he was nudged by his minder: "'Ronald Reagan. Evil empire', he whispered with dramatic intensity and shot a glance toward his lap where he had hidden two enthusiastic thumbs up. 'Yes!'"
When an American president manages to pluck the soul strings of those who have been raised to fear and despise what he represents, he surely deserves the honorific 'great.'
http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m2751/is_77/ai_n6353166/pg_6/?tag=content;col1

The Reagan Legacy Project has built up the myth of Reagan the Conservative Hero.


too funny for those of us who actually remember Reagan and how conservatives dissed him on his way out of office

 

[Procrustes Stretched]

I don't think anyone should be able to walk off a job and not be fired.

Sorry but if you go on strike, you should lose your job

crawl back under your rock. the sun is coming up

 

[EdwardBaiamonte]

We have a two party system because the electorate is too lazy to start a new one from the ground up.

who needs a new one when we have the Republican/libertarian party Jefferson started in 1792?????

Do you lack the IQ to understand freedom from government? Are you anti American??

 

[Procrustes Stretched]

We have a two party system because the electorate is too lazy to start a new one from the ground up.

who needs a new one when we have the Republican/libertarian party Jefferson started in 1792?????

Do you lack the IQ to understand freedom from government? Are you anti American??

Freedom from government?

We have a Republic and we use a democratic process to elect people to represent us. We the people are the national government

 

[EdwardBaiamonte]

The Reagan Legacy Project has built up the myth of Reagan the Conservative Hero.


too funny for those of us who actually remember Reagan and how conservatives dissed him on his way out of office

Of course in office, in a democracy, you have to compromise with the party opposite so you get many mixed and conflicting results but in terms of what Reagan stood for there is a direct line from Thomas Jefferson to Ronald Reagan. He was the most significant champion of freedom from liberal government in the 20th Century and perhaps the 19th too!!

what he got done was phenomenal too:

1) he was the most significant figure on earth in defeating the USSR and perhaps saving the world from nuclear annihilation

2) he ended a deep deep recession and launched the longest period of economic growth in American History!

 

[Procrustes Stretched]

The Reagan Legacy Project has built up the myth of Reagan the Conservative Hero.


too funny for those of us who actually remember Reagan and how conservatives dissed him on his way out of office

Of course in office, in a democracy, you have to compromise with the party opposite so you get many mixed and conflicting results but in terms of what Reagan stood for there is a direct line from Thomas Jefferson to Ronald Reagan. He was the most significant champion of freedom from liberal government in the 20th Century and perhaps the 19th too!!

what he got done was phenomenal too:

1) he was the most significant figure on earth in defeating the USSR and perhaps saving the world from nuclear annihilation

2) he ended a deep deep recession and launched the longest period of economic growth in American History!

The myth can be reduced to a sentence: Reagan "cut taxes" and "ended the Cold War." The reality is far more nuanced - starting with the fact that, in his first year as governor of California, he broke a campaign promise and signed the largest tax hike in state history, slapping increases on corporations and inheritances. The increase was worth $6 billion in today's money

After all, in 1982 Reagan signed into law two tax increases - one of which was later characterized in a Treasury Department report as the heftiest peacetime tax hike in American history. All told, he gave back roughly one-third of the tax cuts enacted a year earlier. Then, in 1983, he saved Social Security with a $165 billion bailout by signing a hike in payroll taxes and ushering a new category of recipients into the program: newly hired federal workers. That year, he also hiked the federal gasoline tax. In 1984, he signed a deficit-reduction bill that mandated yet another tax increase.

That was just the first term. After his re-election, Reagan signed the Tax Reform Act of 1986, which imposed the largest corporate tax hike in history ($120 billion over five years), while closing $300 billion in corporate loopholes. In that same law, Reagan agreed to exempt millions of low-wage earners from paying any income tax. In today's conservative parlance, such deeds would be assailed as "socialism.".

Reagan myth vs. Reagan reality

Conservatives seem to be in such denial about the less flattering aspects of Reagan; it sometimes appears as if they genuinely don’t know the truth of his legacy. Yesterday, when liberal activist Mike Stark challenged hate radio host Rush Limbaugh on why Reagan remains a conservative hero despite raising taxes so many times, Limbaugh flew into a tirade and demanded, “Where did you get this silly notion that Reagan raised taxes?”


1. Reagan was a serial tax raiser.

2. Reagan nearly tripled the federal budget deficit.

3. Unemployment soared after Reagan’s 1981 tax cuts.

4. Reagan grew the size of the federal government tremendously.

5. Reagan did little to fight a woman’s right to choose.

6. Reagan was a “bellicose peacenik.” He wrote in his memoirs that “[m]y dream…became a world free of nuclear weapons.” “

7. Reagan gave amnesty to 3 million undocumented immigrants

8. Reagan illegally funneled weapons to Iran.

9. Reagan vetoed a comprehensive anti-Apartheid act.

10. Reagan helped create the Taliban and Osama Bin Laden

10 Things Conservatives Don't Want You To Know About Ronald Reagan | ThinkProgress

 

[EdwardBaiamonte]

The Reagan Legacy Project has built up the myth of Reagan the Conservative Hero.


too funny for those of us who actually remember Reagan and how conservatives dissed him on his way out of office

Of course in office, in a democracy, you have to compromise with the party opposite so you get many mixed and conflicting results but in terms of what Reagan stood for there is a direct line from Thomas Jefferson to Ronald Reagan. He was the most significant champion of freedom from liberal government in the 20th Century and perhaps the 19th too!!

what he got done was phenomenal too:

1) he was the most significant figure on earth in defeating the USSR and perhaps saving the world from nuclear annihilation

2) he ended a deep deep recession and launched the longest period of economic growth in American History!

The myth can be reduced to a sentence: Reagan "cut taxes" and "ended the Cold War." The reality is far more nuanced - starting with the fact that, in his first year as governor of California, he broke a campaign promise and signed the largest tax hike in state history, slapping increases on corporations and inheritances. The increase was worth $6 billion in today's money

After all, in 1982 Reagan signed into law two tax increases - one of which was later characterized in a Treasury Department report as the heftiest peacetime tax hike in American history. All told, he gave back roughly one-third of the tax cuts enacted a year earlier. Then, in 1983, he saved Social Security with a $165 billion bailout by signing a hike in payroll taxes and ushering a new category of recipients into the program: newly hired federal workers. That year, he also hiked the federal gasoline tax. In 1984, he signed a deficit-reduction bill that mandated yet another tax increase.

That was just the first term. After his re-election, Reagan signed the Tax Reform Act of 1986, which imposed the largest corporate tax hike in history ($120 billion over five years), while closing $300 billion in corporate loopholes. In that same law, Reagan agreed to exempt millions of low-wage earners from paying any income tax. In today's conservative parlance, such deeds would be assailed as "socialism.".

Reagan myth vs. Reagan reality

Conservatives seem to be in such denial about the less flattering aspects of Reagan; it sometimes appears as if they genuinely don’t know the truth of his legacy. Yesterday, when liberal activist Mike Stark challenged hate radio host Rush Limbaugh on why Reagan remains a conservative hero despite raising taxes so many times, Limbaugh flew into a tirade and demanded, “Where did you get this silly notion that Reagan raised taxes?”


1. Reagan was a serial tax raiser.

2. Reagan nearly tripled the federal budget deficit.

3. Unemployment soared after Reagan’s 1981 tax cuts.

4. Reagan grew the size of the federal government tremendously.

5. Reagan did little to fight a woman’s right to choose.

6. Reagan was a “bellicose peacenik.” He wrote in his memoirs that “[m]y dream…became a world free of nuclear weapons.” “

7. Reagan gave amnesty to 3 million undocumented immigrants

8. Reagan illegally funneled weapons to Iran.

9. Reagan vetoed a comprehensive anti-Apartheid act.

10. Reagan helped create the Taliban and Osama Bin Laden

10 Things Conservatives Don't Want You To Know About Ronald Reagan | ThinkProgress

Most importantly, if there was a greater champion for freedom from liberal government than Jefferson or Reagan who was it??

 

[Moonglow]

Of course in office, in a democracy, you have to compromise with the party opposite so you get many mixed and conflicting results but in terms of what Reagan stood for there is a direct line from Thomas Jefferson to Ronald Reagan. He was the most significant champion of freedom from liberal government in the 20th Century and perhaps the 19th too!!

what he got done was phenomenal too:

1) he was the most significant figure on earth in defeating the USSR and perhaps saving the world from nuclear annihilation

2) he ended a deep deep recession and launched the longest period of economic growth in American History!

Reagan myth vs. Reagan reality

Conservatives seem to be in such denial about the less flattering aspects of Reagan; it sometimes appears as if they genuinely don’t know the truth of his legacy. Yesterday, when liberal activist Mike Stark challenged hate radio host Rush Limbaugh on why Reagan remains a conservative hero despite raising taxes so many times, Limbaugh flew into a tirade and demanded, “Where did you get this silly notion that Reagan raised taxes?”


1. Reagan was a serial tax raiser.

2. Reagan nearly tripled the federal budget deficit.

3. Unemployment soared after Reagan’s 1981 tax cuts.

4. Reagan grew the size of the federal government tremendously.

5. Reagan did little to fight a woman’s right to choose.

6. Reagan was a “bellicose peacenik.” He wrote in his memoirs that “[m]y dream…became a world free of nuclear weapons.” “

7. Reagan gave amnesty to 3 million undocumented immigrants

8. Reagan illegally funneled weapons to Iran.

9. Reagan vetoed a comprehensive anti-Apartheid act.

10. Reagan helped create the Taliban and Osama Bin Laden

10 Things Conservatives Don't Want You To Know About Ronald Reagan | ThinkProgress

Most importantly, if there was a greater champion for freedom from liberal government than Jefferson or Reagan who was it??

Andrew Jackson. The only president to pay off the national debt and destroy the Fed Banks which are bleeding the US dry.

 

[EdwardBaiamonte]

Reagan myth vs. Reagan reality



10 Things Conservatives Don't Want You To Know About Ronald Reagan | ThinkProgress

Most importantly, if there was a greater champion for freedom from liberal government than Jefferson or Reagan who was it??

Andrew Jackson. The only president to pay off the national debt and destroy the Fed Banks which are bleeding the US dry.

I'll give him that but he was no philosopher or ideologue so doesn't really have much of an intellectual legacy.