A bitter-sweet glimpse into what Jerusalem might have been

[Sally]

It is just a matter of fact. Look up the address of any main stream news source that reports from the I/P area.

Now, Mr. Tinmore, I think the readers by now realize that you are trying very hard to be a good Hamas spokesman, but aren't you exaggerating here, especially when pictures have been doctored by mainstream media in an attempt to demonize the Israelis? One thing I think all of us have learned in recent years is just how savage many of these Muslims can be what with their constantly murdering one another in addition to their murdering non Muslims, not only in the Middle East, but in other Muslim countries. Mr. Tinmore is probably crying in his beer that the Israeli Navy intercepted those missiles intended for his friends in Gaza.

He never comments on the murderous savage racist activities of his Brethren . He will either tell you not in " Palestine" or when threads regarding their Savage Uncivilized Behavior are put on the ME board he ignores it

Apparently he doesn't care what is happening to innocent people. His only concern is that the Jews should not be in charge of one small piece of land in the Middle East when his own brethren should be the ones in charge. He probably has the same mind set as those who are forcing the Syrian Christians into becoming dhimmis.

 

[Kondor3]

The engine behind all the massacres was the Koran that teaches muslims to "KILL THE JEWS". No other reason is required by the muslims, they are just excuses for being violent bloodthirsty murdering rapists

In what specific passage?

Quran (2:191-193) - "And kill them wherever you find them, and turn them out from where they have turned you out. And Al-Fitnah [disbelief] is worse than killing...
but if they desist, then lo! Allah is forgiving and merciful. And fight them until there is no more Fitnah [disbelief and worshipping of others along with Allah] and worship is for Allah alone. But if they cease, let there be no transgression except against Az-Zalimun (the polytheists, and wrong-doers, etc.)"
Quran (2:244) - "Then fight in the cause of Allah, and know that Allah Heareth and knoweth all things."
Quran (2:216) - "Fighting is prescribed for you, and ye dislike it. But it is possible that ye dislike a thing which is good for you, and that ye love a thing which is bad for you. But Allah knoweth, and ye know not."
Quran (3:56) - "As to those who reject faith, I will punish them with terrible agony in this world and in the Hereafter, nor will they have anyone to help."
Quran (3:151) - "Soon shall We cast terror into the hearts of the Unbelievers, for that they joined companions with Allah, for which He had sent no authority".
Quran (4:74) - "Let those fight in the way of Allah who sell the life of this world for the other. Whoso fighteth in the way of Allah, be he slain or be he victorious, on him We shall bestow a vast reward."
Quran (4:76) - "Those who believe fight in the cause of Allah…"
Quran (4:89) - "They but wish that ye should reject Faith, as they do, and thus be on the same footing (as they): But take not friends from their ranks until they flee in the way of Allah (From what is forbidden). But if they turn renegades, seize them and slay them wherever ye find them; and (in any case) take no friends or helpers from their ranks."
Quran (4:95) - "Not equal are those believers who sit (at home) and receive no hurt, and those who strive and fight in the cause of Allah with their goods and their persons. Allah hath granted a grade higher to those who strive and fight with their goods and persons than to those who sit (at home). Unto all (in Faith) Hath Allah promised good: But those who strive and fight Hath He distinguished above those who sit (at home) by a special reward,-"
Quran (4:104) - "And be not weak hearted in pursuit of the enemy; if you suffer pain, then surely they (too) suffer pain as you suffer pain..." Is pursuing an injured and retreating enemy really an act of self-defense?



Quran (5:33) - "The punishment of those who wage war against Allah and His messenger and strive to make mischief in the land is only this, that they should be murdered or crucified or their hands and their feet should be cut off on opposite sides or they should be imprisoned; this shall be as a disgrace for them in this world, and in the hereafter they shall have a grievous chastisement"
Quran (8:12) - "I will cast terror into the hearts of those who disbelieve. Therefore strike off their heads and strike off every fingertip of them" No reasonable person would interpret this to mean a spiritual struggle.
Quran (8:15) - "O ye who believe! When ye meet those who disbelieve in battle, turn not your backs to them. (16)Whoso on that day turneth his back to them, unless maneuvering for battle or intent to join a company, he truly hath incurred wrath from Allah, and his habitation will be hell, a hapless journey's end."
Quran (8:39) - "And fight with them until there is no more fitna (disorder, unbelief) and religion should be only for Allah"
Quran (8:57) - "If thou comest on them in the war, deal with them so as to strike fear in those who are behind them, that haply they may remember."
Quran (8:59-60) - "And let not those who disbelieve suppose that they can outstrip (Allah's Purpose). Lo! they cannot escape. Make ready for them all thou canst of (armed) force and of horses tethered, that thereby ye may dismay the enemy of Allah and your enemy."
Quran (8:65) - "O Prophet, exhort the believers to fight..."
Quran (9:5) - "So when the sacred months have passed away, then slay the idolaters wherever you find them, and take them captive and besiege them and lie in wait for them in every ambush, then if they repent and keep up prayer and pay the poor-rate, leave their way free to them."
Quran (9:14) - "Fight them, Allah will punish them by your hands and bring them to disgrace..."
Quran (9:20) - "Those who believe, and have left their homes and striven with their wealth and their lives in Allah's way are of much greater worth in Allah's sight. These are they who are triumphant." The Arabic word interpreted as "striving" in this verse is the same root as "Jihad". The context is obviously holy war.
Quran (9:29) - "Fight those who believe not in Allah nor the Last Day, nor hold that forbidden which hath been forbidden by Allah and His Messenger, nor acknowledge the religion of Truth, (even if they are) of the People of the Book, until they pay the Jizya with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued."
Quran (9:30) - "And the Jews say: Ezra is the son of Allah; and the Christians say: The Messiah is the son of Allah; these are the words of their mouths; they imitate the saying of those who disbelieved before; may Allah destroy them; how they are turned away!"
Quran (9:38-39) - "O ye who believe! what is the matter with you, that, when ye are asked to go forth in the cause of Allah, ye cling heavily to the earth? Do ye prefer the life of this world to the Hereafter? But little is the comfort of this life, as compared with the Hereafter. Unless ye go forth, He will punish you with a grievous penalty, and put others in your place." This is a warning to those who refuse to fight, that they will be punished with Hell.
Quran (9:41) - "Go forth, light-armed and heavy-armed, and strive with your wealth and your lives in the way of Allah! That is best for you if ye but knew." See also the verse that follows (9:42) - "If there had been immediate gain (in sight), and the journey easy, they would (all) without doubt have followed thee, but the distance was long, (and weighed) on them"
Quran (9:73) - "O Prophet! strive hard against the unbelievers and the hypocrites and be unyielding to them; and their abode is hell, and evil is the destination." Dehumanizing those who reject Islam, by reminding Muslims that unbelievers are merely firewood for Hell, makes it easier to justify slaughter. It also explains why today's devout Muslims have little regard for those outside the faith.
Quran (9:88) - "But the Messenger, and those who believe with him, strive and fight with their wealth and their persons: for them are (all) good things: and it is they who will prosper."
Quran (9:111) - "Allah hath purchased of the believers their persons and their goods; for theirs (in return) is the garden (of Paradise): they fight in His cause, and slay and are slain: a promise binding on Him in truth, through the Law, the Gospel, and the Quran: and who is more faithful to his covenant than Allah? then rejoice in the bargain which ye have concluded: that is the achievement supreme."
Quran (9:123) - "O you who believe! fight those of the unbelievers who are near to you and let them find in you hardness."
Quran (17:16) - "And when We wish to destroy a town, We send Our commandment to the people of it who lead easy lives, but they transgress therein; thus the word proves true against it, so We destroy it with utter destruction."
Quran (21:44) - "We gave the good things of this life to these men and their fathers until the period grew long for them; See they not that We gradually reduce the land (in their control) from its outlying borders? Is it then they who will win?"
Quran (25:52) - "Therefore listen not to the Unbelievers, but strive against them with the utmost strenuousness..."
Quran (33:60-62) - "If the hypocrites, and those in whose hearts is a disease, and the alarmists in the city do not cease, We verily shall urge thee on against them, then they will be your neighbors in it but a little while. Accursed, they will be seized wherever found and slain with a (fierce) slaughter."
Quran (47:3-4) - "Those who reject Allah follow vanities, while those who believe follow the truth from their lord. Thus does Allah set forth form men their lessons by similitude. Therefore when you meet in battle those who disbelieve, then smite the necks until when you have overcome them, then make (them) prisoners,"
Quran (47:35) - "Be not weary and faint-hearted, crying for peace, when ye should be uppermost (Shakir: "have the upper hand") for Allah is with you,"
Quran (48:17) - "There is no blame for the blind, nor is there blame for the lame, nor is there blame for the sick (that they go not forth to war). And whoso obeyeth Allah and His messenger, He will make him enter Gardens underneath which rivers flow; and whoso turneth back, him will He punish with a painful doom."
Quran (48:29) - "Muhammad is the messenger of Allah. And those with him are hard (ruthless) against the disbelievers and merciful among themselves"
Quran (61:4) - "Surely Allah loves those who fight in His way"
Quran (61:10-12) - "O You who believe! Shall I guide you to a commerce that will save you from a painful torment. That you believe in Allah and His Messenger (Muhammad ), and that you strive hard and fight in the Cause of Allah with your wealth and your lives, that will be better for you, if you but know! (If you do so) He will forgive you your sins, and admit you into Gardens under which rivers flow, and pleasant dwelling in Gardens of 'Adn - Eternity ['Adn (Edn) Paradise], that is indeed the great success."
Quran (66:9) - "O Prophet! Strive against the disbelievers and the hypocrites, and be stern with them. Hell will be their home, a hapless journey's end."

Do you need the hadiths as well?

 

[Roudy]

The engine behind all the massacres was the Koran that teaches muslims to "KILL THE JEWS". No other reason is required by the muslims, they are just excuses for being violent bloodthirsty murdering rapists

In what specific passage?

Quran (2:191-193) - "And kill them wherever you find them, and turn them out from where they have turned you out. And Al-Fitnah [disbelief] is worse than killing...
but if they desist, then lo! Allah is forgiving and merciful. And fight them until there is no more Fitnah [disbelief and worshipping of others along with Allah] and worship is for Allah alone. But if they cease, let there be no transgression except against Az-Zalimun (the polytheists, and wrong-doers, etc.)"
Quran (2:244) - "Then fight in the cause of Allah, and know that Allah Heareth and knoweth all things."
Quran (2:216) - "Fighting is prescribed for you, and ye dislike it. But it is possible that ye dislike a thing which is good for you, and that ye love a thing which is bad for you. But Allah knoweth, and ye know not."
Quran (3:56) - "As to those who reject faith, I will punish them with terrible agony in this world and in the Hereafter, nor will they have anyone to help."
Quran (3:151) - "Soon shall We cast terror into the hearts of the Unbelievers, for that they joined companions with Allah, for which He had sent no authority".
Quran (4:74) - "Let those fight in the way of Allah who sell the life of this world for the other. Whoso fighteth in the way of Allah, be he slain or be he victorious, on him We shall bestow a vast reward."
Quran (4:76) - "Those who believe fight in the cause of Allah…"
Quran (4:89) - "They but wish that ye should reject Faith, as they do, and thus be on the same footing (as they): But take not friends from their ranks until they flee in the way of Allah (From what is forbidden). But if they turn renegades, seize them and slay them wherever ye find them; and (in any case) take no friends or helpers from their ranks."
Quran (4:95) - "Not equal are those believers who sit (at home) and receive no hurt, and those who strive and fight in the cause of Allah with their goods and their persons. Allah hath granted a grade higher to those who strive and fight with their goods and persons than to those who sit (at home). Unto all (in Faith) Hath Allah promised good: But those who strive and fight Hath He distinguished above those who sit (at home) by a special reward,-"
Quran (4:104) - "And be not weak hearted in pursuit of the enemy; if you suffer pain, then surely they (too) suffer pain as you suffer pain..." Is pursuing an injured and retreating enemy really an act of self-defense?



Quran (5:33) - "The punishment of those who wage war against Allah and His messenger and strive to make mischief in the land is only this, that they should be murdered or crucified or their hands and their feet should be cut off on opposite sides or they should be imprisoned; this shall be as a disgrace for them in this world, and in the hereafter they shall have a grievous chastisement"
Quran (8:12) - "I will cast terror into the hearts of those who disbelieve. Therefore strike off their heads and strike off every fingertip of them" No reasonable person would interpret this to mean a spiritual struggle.
Quran (8:15) - "O ye who believe! When ye meet those who disbelieve in battle, turn not your backs to them. (16)Whoso on that day turneth his back to them, unless maneuvering for battle or intent to join a company, he truly hath incurred wrath from Allah, and his habitation will be hell, a hapless journey's end."
Quran (8:39) - "And fight with them until there is no more fitna (disorder, unbelief) and religion should be only for Allah"
Quran (8:57) - "If thou comest on them in the war, deal with them so as to strike fear in those who are behind them, that haply they may remember."
Quran (8:59-60) - "And let not those who disbelieve suppose that they can outstrip (Allah's Purpose). Lo! they cannot escape. Make ready for them all thou canst of (armed) force and of horses tethered, that thereby ye may dismay the enemy of Allah and your enemy."
Quran (8:65) - "O Prophet, exhort the believers to fight..."
Quran (9:5) - "So when the sacred months have passed away, then slay the idolaters wherever you find them, and take them captive and besiege them and lie in wait for them in every ambush, then if they repent and keep up prayer and pay the poor-rate, leave their way free to them."
Quran (9:14) - "Fight them, Allah will punish them by your hands and bring them to disgrace..."
Quran (9:20) - "Those who believe, and have left their homes and striven with their wealth and their lives in Allah's way are of much greater worth in Allah's sight. These are they who are triumphant." The Arabic word interpreted as "striving" in this verse is the same root as "Jihad". The context is obviously holy war.
Quran (9:29) - "Fight those who believe not in Allah nor the Last Day, nor hold that forbidden which hath been forbidden by Allah and His Messenger, nor acknowledge the religion of Truth, (even if they are) of the People of the Book, until they pay the Jizya with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued."
Quran (9:30) - "And the Jews say: Ezra is the son of Allah; and the Christians say: The Messiah is the son of Allah; these are the words of their mouths; they imitate the saying of those who disbelieved before; may Allah destroy them; how they are turned away!"
Quran (9:38-39) - "O ye who believe! what is the matter with you, that, when ye are asked to go forth in the cause of Allah, ye cling heavily to the earth? Do ye prefer the life of this world to the Hereafter? But little is the comfort of this life, as compared with the Hereafter. Unless ye go forth, He will punish you with a grievous penalty, and put others in your place." This is a warning to those who refuse to fight, that they will be punished with Hell.
Quran (9:41) - "Go forth, light-armed and heavy-armed, and strive with your wealth and your lives in the way of Allah! That is best for you if ye but knew." See also the verse that follows (9:42) - "If there had been immediate gain (in sight), and the journey easy, they would (all) without doubt have followed thee, but the distance was long, (and weighed) on them"
Quran (9:73) - "O Prophet! strive hard against the unbelievers and the hypocrites and be unyielding to them; and their abode is hell, and evil is the destination." Dehumanizing those who reject Islam, by reminding Muslims that unbelievers are merely firewood for Hell, makes it easier to justify slaughter. It also explains why today's devout Muslims have little regard for those outside the faith.
Quran (9:88) - "But the Messenger, and those who believe with him, strive and fight with their wealth and their persons: for them are (all) good things: and it is they who will prosper."
Quran (9:111) - "Allah hath purchased of the believers their persons and their goods; for theirs (in return) is the garden (of Paradise): they fight in His cause, and slay and are slain: a promise binding on Him in truth, through the Law, the Gospel, and the Quran: and who is more faithful to his covenant than Allah? then rejoice in the bargain which ye have concluded: that is the achievement supreme."
Quran (9:123) - "O you who believe! fight those of the unbelievers who are near to you and let them find in you hardness."
Quran (17:16) - "And when We wish to destroy a town, We send Our commandment to the people of it who lead easy lives, but they transgress therein; thus the word proves true against it, so We destroy it with utter destruction."
Quran (21:44) - "We gave the good things of this life to these men and their fathers until the period grew long for them; See they not that We gradually reduce the land (in their control) from its outlying borders? Is it then they who will win?"
Quran (25:52) - "Therefore listen not to the Unbelievers, but strive against them with the utmost strenuousness..."
Quran (33:60-62) - "If the hypocrites, and those in whose hearts is a disease, and the alarmists in the city do not cease, We verily shall urge thee on against them, then they will be your neighbors in it but a little while. Accursed, they will be seized wherever found and slain with a (fierce) slaughter."
Quran (47:3-4) - "Those who reject Allah follow vanities, while those who believe follow the truth from their lord. Thus does Allah set forth form men their lessons by similitude. Therefore when you meet in battle those who disbelieve, then smite the necks until when you have overcome them, then make (them) prisoners,"
Quran (47:35) - "Be not weary and faint-hearted, crying for peace, when ye should be uppermost (Shakir: "have the upper hand") for Allah is with you,"
Quran (48:17) - "There is no blame for the blind, nor is there blame for the lame, nor is there blame for the sick (that they go not forth to war). And whoso obeyeth Allah and His messenger, He will make him enter Gardens underneath which rivers flow; and whoso turneth back, him will He punish with a painful doom."
Quran (48:29) - "Muhammad is the messenger of Allah. And those with him are hard (ruthless) against the disbelievers and merciful among themselves"
Quran (61:4) - "Surely Allah loves those who fight in His way"
Quran (61:10-12) - "O You who believe! Shall I guide you to a commerce that will save you from a painful torment. That you believe in Allah and His Messenger (Muhammad ), and that you strive hard and fight in the Cause of Allah with your wealth and your lives, that will be better for you, if you but know! (If you do so) He will forgive you your sins, and admit you into Gardens under which rivers flow, and pleasant dwelling in Gardens of 'Adn - Eternity ['Adn (Edn) Paradise], that is indeed the great success."
Quran (66:9) - "O Prophet! Strive against the disbelievers and the hypocrites, and be stern with them. Hell will be their home, a hapless journey's end."

Do you need the hadiths as well?

 

[toastman]

Indeed, up until 10-15 years ago all of the information we received was single sourced out of Israel.

Oh please...if I had a quarter for every time I heard or read about a poor Palestinian olive tree, I'd be a rich man.

It is just a matter of fact. Look up the address of any main stream news source that reports from the I/P area.

You always say 'its just a matter of fact' but you never show us anything to pro e that. Sooo many of your claims have been flushed down the toilet Tinmore, that your credibility is not good, if you have any left.
Its just a matter of fact.

 

[P F Tinmore]

Oh please...if I had a quarter for every time I heard or read about a poor Palestinian olive tree, I'd be a rich man.

It is just a matter of fact. Look up the address of any main stream news source that reports from the I/P area.

You always say 'its just a matter of fact' but you never show us anything to pro e that. Sooo many of your claims have been flushed down the toilet Tinmore, that your credibility is not good, if you have any left.
Its just a matter of fact.

You are not looking at the facts.

 

[toastman]

It is just a matter of fact. Look up the address of any main stream news source that reports from the I/P area.

You always say 'its just a matter of fact' but you never show us anything to pro e that. Sooo many of your claims have been flushed down the toilet Tinmore, that your credibility is not good, if you have any left.
Its just a matter of fact.

You are not looking at the facts.

You made the claim, so its your job to present them. So far all Im getting from you is excuses

 

[P F Tinmore]

You always say 'its just a matter of fact' but you never show us anything to pro e that. Sooo many of your claims have been flushed down the toilet Tinmore, that your credibility is not good, if you have any left.
Its just a matter of fact.

You are not looking at the facts.

You made the claim, so its your job to present them. So far all Im getting from you is excuses

All of the offices of the MSM covering Israel/Palestine are in Israel. It is no secret.

All of the MSM news comes out of Israel.

Nope, no bias here.

 

[toastman]

You are not looking at the facts.

You made the claim, so its your job to present them. So far all Im getting from you is excuses

All of the offices of the MSM covering Israel/Palestine are in Israel. It is no secret.

All of the MSM news comes out of Israel.

Nope, no bias here.

Youre saying the only news sources about the IP conflict come from Israel??? Lol

Also, there are several pro Palestinian organizations based In Israel.

Like I said, you ALWAYS find an excuse for any news that sides with Israel. Lame excuses at that

 

[P F Tinmore]

You made the claim, so its your job to present them. So far all Im getting from you is excuses

All of the offices of the MSM covering Israel/Palestine are in Israel. It is no secret.

All of the MSM news comes out of Israel.

Nope, no bias here.

Youre saying the only news sources about the IP conflict come from Israel??? Lol

Also, there are several pro Palestinian organizations based In Israel.

Like I said, you ALWAYS find an excuse for any news that sides with Israel. Lame excuses at that

No, I said that all main stream news comes out of Israel.

Name one that does not.

 

[Sally]

You are not looking at the facts.

You made the claim, so its your job to present them. So far all Im getting from you is excuses

All of the offices of the MSM covering Israel/Palestine are in Israel. It is no secret.

All of the MSM news comes out of Israel.

Nope, no bias here.

Come on, Mr. Tinmore, many of the large newspapers have been very derogatory toward Israel and pictures have been doctored to make the Israelis look bad. It must kill you to know that the majority of Americans stick up for Israel even though many in the mass media do not. Anyhow, the author of the following article has it right.

Israel and the Rest of the World

 

[toastman]

All of the offices of the MSM covering Israel/Palestine are in Israel. It is no secret.

All of the MSM news comes out of Israel.

Nope, no bias here.

Youre saying the only news sources about the IP conflict come from Israel??? Lol

Also, there are several pro Palestinian organizations based In Israel.

Like I said, you ALWAYS find an excuse for any news that sides with Israel. Lame excuses at that

No, I said that all main stream news comes out of Israel.

Name one that does not.

What do you mean by ' comes out of' ?

 

[Phoenall]

It is just a matter of fact. Look up the address of any main stream news source that reports from the I/P area.

You always say 'its just a matter of fact' but you never show us anything to pro e that. Sooo many of your claims have been flushed down the toilet Tinmore, that your credibility is not good, if you have any left.
Its just a matter of fact.

You are not looking at the facts.

Do you mean like then facts trotted out by your tame Palestinian professor who added the term Palestinian and Palestine to the treaties he used as evidence to prove Palestine was a nation before 1948.
Or the fact that Jordan murdered more Palestinians in one month than Israel has managed in 66 years.
Or the fact that hamas is using illegal chemical and biological weapons against Israeli children
Or the fact that the Palestinians fabricate deaths to blame on the IDF, and don't hang their heads when found to be LIARS.

So lets talk facts and see just which are real and which are BLOOD LIBELS and OUTRIGHT LIES.

 

[Phoenall]

You are not looking at the facts.

You made the claim, so its your job to present them. So far all Im getting from you is excuses

All of the offices of the MSM covering Israel/Palestine are in Israel. It is no secret.

All of the MSM news comes out of Israel.

Nope, no bias here.

So the likes of haaretz that report pro Palestinian stories is not based in Israel ?

Many of the reports coming out of gaza are pallywood productions, and get destroyed within hours of hitting the news stands. The reports from Journo's that they were kept locked up in their hotels while Palestinian camera men went out and filmed for them is bias as well I expect. The corpses suddenly rising from the dead as shown by Palestinian camera crews and Israeli bias are they ?

Now come up with actual evidence that the reports are fixed in Israel's favour when the reality is the Palestinians are manipulating the news more than Israel.

 

[Phoenall]

All of the offices of the MSM covering Israel/Palestine are in Israel. It is no secret.

All of the MSM news comes out of Israel.

Nope, no bias here.

Youre saying the only news sources about the IP conflict come from Israel??? Lol

Also, there are several pro Palestinian organizations based In Israel.

Like I said, you ALWAYS find an excuse for any news that sides with Israel. Lame excuses at that

No, I said that all main stream news comes out of Israel.

Name one that does not.

Iran TV that you have used just recently .........................

 

[Phoenall]

Youre saying the only news sources about the IP conflict come from Israel??? Lol

Also, there are several pro Palestinian organizations based In Israel.

Like I said, you ALWAYS find an excuse for any news that sides with Israel. Lame excuses at that

No, I said that all main stream news comes out of Israel.

Name one that does not.

What do you mean by ' comes out of' ?

He is confused about were the mainstream news really comes from. He forgets that most comes from agencies that have offices in gaza and Israel, and the media only use the pro Palestinian reports.