A Balanced View of Climate Change

[Captain Caveman]

I know the concept you report here is part of the national debate albeit one that the climate religionists, including the surrogate leftist media, suppress as much as they are able. And it should be part of the national debate. Thank you for a thoughtful and well presented post.

Well, weathering limestone emits co2, weathering silicates absorbs co2. I've heard of an alarmist covering if either one is accelerating and/or declining. The focus is, "Fossil fuels, nothing else".

If they want tax, why not simply tax countries when they have a volcano that erupts? Estimate the co2 output and the climate community send them an invoice. ThSt should reduce co2??

As you say, fossil fuels will never go away, even when mankind is long gone, oil seepage will never stop. Even California has hundreds of natural oil seepage areas throughout 28 counties. Have natural oil seepages been caught up in natural bush/scrub fires?

Surfice to say, I ain't doing anything different in my last 30 to 40 years.

 

[Flash]

Humans are very adaptable. They can live in bitterly cold climates, deserts, plains, forest, hot rain forest, you name it.

Humans have survived massive climate changes in the past, like ice ages.

Humans can survive whatever climate change that is in store for us in the foreseeable future.

Maybe not with a population approaching ten billions but as long as the earth isn't completely screwed we should still continue as a species for awhile.

It will end one day. The reason may very well be climate change. After all climate change has made 99% of all the species that ever lived on earth extinct at one time or another.

Climate change is real and humans will just have to deal with it in the future just like we dealt with it in the past. However, this bullshit about man made climate change is nothing more than a scam. Only idiots believe it. It is not scientifically defensible and is based upon false, cherry picked and fraudulent data. Scientists will sell out just like politicians. Funny but this AGW scam have both of them working together.

 

[ding]

Under today's political "climate" (no pun intended) I'm not sure it's possible for the climate community to take a balanced view on the science of the planet's climate. They ignore the effect the ocean - which has the vast majority the planet's heat - has on the planet's climate and are focusing - with full blinders - on the atmosphere which has the least.

 

[ReinyDays]

And you think the green energy laws, rules, regulations, trillions of dollars spent by the peaceful world are going to change that?

Well ... here's what you posted:

But you can render the fanatics and dishonest harmless with good government, good leadership, good policy, good laws that are enforced.

Yes, dear, honest government is expensive ...

I honestly thought you meant enforcing exist law would be enough to solve whatever problems we're seeing ... like not trading with Hamas or Iran ... I'm pretty sure that's illegal in the United States ... and I wouldn't classify those laws as "green energy law" ...

What Green Laws concern you? ... do you object to Oregon outlawing coal-fired electricity? ... forcibly shuttering all the coal power plants in the entire State? ... a sweep of the governor's pen and them power plants were stone cold within a month ... and We the People cheered ...

 

[ReinyDays]

Under today's political "climate" (no pun intended) I'm not sure it's possible for the climate community to take a balanced view on the science of the planet's climate. They ignore the effect the ocean - which has the vast majority the planet's heat - has on the planet's climate and are focusing - with full blinders - on the atmosphere which has the least.

Lord have mercy there's a lot of energy in the oceans ... and these energy levels are slow to change ... we always see more moderate temperatures near coastal communities than inland ... out in the open ocean, air temperatures don't change as much as air over land ...

It's the winds and driving rain that makes Blue Water shipping so dangerous ... the other climate parameters ...

 

[Foxfyre]

Well, weathering limestone emits co2, weathering silicates absorbs co2. I've heard of an alarmist covering if either one is accelerating and/or declining. The focus is, "Fossil fuels, nothing else".

If they want tax, why not simply tax countries when they have a volcano that erupts? Estimate the co2 output and the climate community send them an invoice. ThSt should reduce co2??

As you say, fossil fuels will never go away, even when mankind is long gone, oil seepage will never stop. Even California has hundreds of natural oil seepage areas throughout 28 counties. Have natural oil seepages been caught up in natural bush/scrub fires?

Surfice to say, I ain't doing anything different in my last 30 to 40 years.

I suspect you are doing many things differently in the last 30 to 40 years because the government is FORCING you to do things differently. You're paying higher taxes. You're likely receiving less income. And you no doubt are driving a vehicle and using appliances that are unnecessarily more expense and perhaps less efficient. All due to the contributions demanded by the climate change religion.

 

[Foxfyre]

Well ... here's what you posted:



Yes, dear, honest government is expensive ...

I honestly thought you meant enforcing exist law would be enough to solve whatever problems we're seeing ... like not trading with Hamas or Iran ... I'm pretty sure that's illegal in the United States ... and I wouldn't classify those laws as "green energy law" ...

What Green Laws concern you? ... do you object to Oregon outlawing coal-fired electricity? ... forcibly shuttering all the coal power plants in the entire State? ... a sweep of the governor's pen and them power plants were stone cold within a month ... and We the People cheered ...

I'm not going to retype all that. Please read the thread. And unless we are finding Hamas or Iran with our fossil fuel income, such is irrelevant to the point and content of the thread.

 

[ReinyDays]

I'm not going to retype all that. Please read the thread. And unless we are finding Hamas or Iran with our fossil fuel income, such is irrelevant to the point and content of the thread.

I was just illustrating the other reasons to curtail fossil fuel use ... the economics is ugly ... it involves cutting the heads off of Saudi women ...

You don't want a balanced view ... you just want your own view ... balancing these things is difficult ...

 

[ding]

Lord have mercy there's a lot of energy in the oceans ... and these energy levels are slow to change ... we always see more moderate temperatures near coastal communities than inland ... out in the open ocean, air temperatures don't change as much as air over land ...

It's the winds and driving rain that makes Blue Water shipping so dangerous ... the other climate parameters ...

Right, that's why it takes a long time for the planet to warm back up to its pre-glacial temperature. The main thing to know about the ocean though, is how much colder the arctic would be if the heat conveyor shut down and how fast the feedback response from that would be. All talk of global warming would halt and then real science would be done.

 

[ReinyDays]

Right, that's why it takes a long time for the planet to warm back up to its pre-glacial temperature. The main thing to know about the ocean though, is how much colder the arctic would be if the heat conveyor shut down and how fast the feedback response from that would be. All talk of global warming would halt and then real science would be done.

The heat conveyor isn't shutting down ... the equator receives the most solar energy, the poles the least ... thus energy will always be moving from the equator to the poles ... always:

Atmospheric circulation - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Ocean current - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Weather is the turbulence in-between ... and climate is the average of this turbulence ...

 

[ding]

The heat conveyor isn't shutting down ... the equator receives the most solar energy, the poles the least ... thus energy will always be moving from the equator to the poles ... always:

Atmospheric circulation - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Ocean current - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Wrap your mind around what would happen if it did, then ask yourself is there anything like that in the geologic record. Because low and behold, there is. A whole shitload of them. Even explains those pesky D-O events which mess up their BS "unprecedented rate of warming" narrative. This shit is not rocket science.

 

[Foxfyre]

I was just illustrating the other reasons to curtail fossil fuel use ... the economics is ugly ... it involves cutting the heads off of Saudi women ...

You don't want a balanced view ... you just want your own view ... balancing these things is difficult ...

If you think oil is the cause of cutting off heads, I don't know what to tell you. It doesn't balance anybody's view to bring in ridiculous analogies that are irrelevant to the topic.

 

[ReinyDays]

Wrap your mind around what would happen if it did, then ask yourself is there anything like that in the geologic record. Because low and behold, there is. A whole shitload of them. Even explains those pesky D-O events which mess up their BS "unprecedented rate of warming" narrative. This shit is not rocket science.

Can you clarify that? ... how does the geologic record record wind direction and cloud cover? ... with a shitload of examples, maybe you could post a linky to just one ...

The heat conveyor is intrinsic to the atmospheric structure ... and appear in all the large atmospheres in our solar system ... Jupiter has dozens of convection cells ... all moving energy from the equator to the poles ... like sprockets ...

 

[ding]

Can you clarify that? ... how does the geologic record record wind direction and cloud cover? ... with a shitload of examples, maybe you could post a linky to just one ...

The heat conveyor is intrinsic to the atmospheric structure ... and appear in all the large atmospheres in our solar system ... Jupiter has dozens of convection cells ... all moving energy from the equator to the poles ... like sprockets ...

Climate changes. Like 30 of them over the past 3 million years. Unless we are adding in the D-O events. Then it adds in another 25 or so climate changes.

 

[ding]

The heat conveyor is intrinsic to the atmospheric structure ... and appear in all the large atmospheres in our solar system ... Jupiter has dozens of convection cells ... all moving energy from the equator to the poles ... like sprockets ...

You do realize the ocean currents are keeping the Arctic 2C warmer than if they collapsed? Any guess what the threshold is for extensive NH continental glaciation? C'mom man.

 

[ding]

If you think oil is the cause of cutting off heads, I don't know what to tell you. It doesn't balance anybody's view to bring in ridiculous analogies that are irrelevant to the topic.

I think it's more like fun and games for him. That or he is off his meds. Maybe both.

 

[Foxfyre]

I think it's more like fun and games for him. That or he is off his meds. Maybe both.

You never know. But it is taking all my resolve to keep my New Year's resolution to not feed the trolls, argue with idiots, or engage in other exercises in futility.

 

[Captain Caveman]

I suspect you are doing many things differently in the last 30 to 40 years because the government is FORCING you to do things differently. You're paying higher taxes. You're likely receiving less income. And you no doubt are driving a vehicle and using appliances that are unnecessarily more expense and perhaps less efficient. All due to the contributions demanded by the climate change religion.

Well, I went self employed limited company 20 years ago to avoid paying income tax and national insurance. Just stuck with paying tax on other stuff. Income same, been putting charging rates up. Company pension kicked in last year, I don't really have to work but I do cos I get bored.

Yes, the planet is warmer, just a smidge though. I wish it was 10c warmer to cheer up the climate in the UK. I wish co2 shot up to 1,100ppm and above so plants at home grow really well.

Just before and new ICE ban, I will then buy my last ICE vehicle, but deep down, I have a feeling they won't disappear and EV's will be the Betamax to what VHS was to the video market.

 

[ReinyDays]

Climate changes. Like 30 of them over the past 3 million years. Unless we are adding in the D-O events. Then it adds in another 25 or so climate changes.

Ice age ... 30 million years ... I think you mean weather changes ...

You said "how much colder the arctic would be if the heat conveyor shut down" ... the heat conveyor never shuts down, not as long as the Sun shines and the Earth spins ... but if they did, the equatorial oceans would boil ... without sunlight at all, the poles would accumulate ice ... if that could happen, it would have by now ...

How has the Oceanic Climate changed over these past 30 million years, or 2.2 billion years for that matter ... because my comment was about all the climate, not just one small insignificant part of it ...

 

[Foxfyre]

Well, I went self employed limited company 20 years ago to avoid paying income tax and national insurance. Just stuck with paying tax on other stuff. Income same, been putting charging rates up. Company pension kicked in last year, I don't really have to work but I do cos I get bored.

Yes, the planet is warmer, just a smidge though. I wish it was 10c warmer to cheer up the climate in the UK. I wish co2 shot up to 1,100ppm and above so plants at home grow really well.

Just before and new ICE ban, I will then buy my last ICE vehicle, but deep down, I have a feeling they won't disappear and EV's will be the Betamax to what VHS was to the video market.

We've never owned an EV and Lord willing will never have to. Most auto makers here in the U.S. are cutting back sharply on their EV production if they haven't discontinued making them altogether. People just aren't buying them. Our so-called President promised lots and lots of new of charging stations built for EVs with the massive infrastructure bill passed through our Congress. So far according to the news last night they have built one.

Remember though that your government nor our government was involved in the development of videos or video players and VHS was reliable and effective and affordable from the beginning and opened up a great new market for businesses to provide them for sale or rent. The private sector generally does these things more competently and economically than any government will or can do.

If left to the private sector there might or might not be EVs. They are probably pretty okay for those who don't live in very cold climates and who don't need to drive long distances. They are pretty impractical for folks who live in say Alaska or out here in the American west where there can be 60 to 100 miles or more between towns and it isn't unusual for there to be hundreds of miles to cover to your destination. Takes five minutes or so to fill up the gas tank. Having to wait 30 minutes to an hour or more even on a rapid charger is frustrating for many impatient Americans.

And if the ambulance or fire truck or police car is on a charger when you need one. . .