911 facts no theories

[Wayne1954]

Mr. SFC Ollie:

Just so you know, that last post was ancedotal and not based on science. It was, however, a very curious comment.

 

[SFC Ollie]

[What, you don't know that thermite is basically aluminum and rust?

Mr. SFC Ollie:

Scientist and Physicists know quite a bit about the characteristics of thermite. Your simple "aluminum and rust" (in mixed power form) is used to weld steel rails together. Here is what Wikipedia says about the "aluminum and rust" reaction ... and it not just some "little-bit-of-rust-on-this-pipe-here-and-an-alumimun-beer-can-over-there" proximity that creates this highly exothermic reaction.

"From Wikipedia:

Thermite is a pyrotechnic composition of a metal powder and a metal oxide, which produces an exothermic oxidation-reduction reaction known as a thermite reaction. If aluminum is the reducing agent it is called an aluminothermic reaction. Most varieties are not explosive, but can create short bursts of extremely high temperatures focused on a very small area for a short period of time.

Thermites can be a diverse class of compositions. The fuels are often aluminium, magnesium, calcium, titanium, zinc, silicon, and boron. The oxidizers can be boron(III) oxide, silicon(IV) oxide, chromium(III) oxide, manganese(IV) oxide, iron(III) oxide, iron(II,III) oxide, copper(II) oxide, and lead(II,III,IV) oxide.

The most common thermite is aluminium-iron(III) oxide.

Reaction

The aluminium reduces the oxide of another metal, most commonly iron oxide, because aluminium is highly reactive:

Fe2O3 + 2Al → 2Fe + Al2O3 + heat

The products are aluminium oxide, free elemental iron,[2] and a large amount of heat. The reactants are commonly powdered and mixed with a binder to keep the material solid and prevent separation."

So are you dismissive of the ability of Thermite to weaken and cut steel beams?

Even though I suspect you already know this, I happen to know enough about thermite to have appeared as a demonstrator/instructor in an Army training film about using thermite destruction equipment (Grenades, plates, powder) to destroy COMSEC equipment and classified documents. So please, do not try to give me Wikipedia for something you need. Now go ahead and deny that all the components of thermite are not found in most office buildings.

 

[eots]

I'm not sure you CAN link that.

link to what Elvis ? complete sentences would be helpful.

The National Geographic special Dive was referring to is not available on youtube as far as I know.

only because you lack the skills

 

[DiveCon]

link to what Elvis ? complete sentences would be helpful.

The National Geographic special Dive was referring to is not available on youtube as far as I know.

only because you lack the skills

"only"???

more like dont care enough to search for it only to have you deny the facts AGAIN

 

[Fizz]

link to what Elvis ? complete sentences would be helpful.

The National Geographic special Dive was referring to is not available on youtube as far as I know.

only because you lack the skills

got a link for that?

 

[eots]

[What, you don't know that thermite is basically aluminum and rust?

Mr. SFC Ollie:

Scientist and Physicists know quite a bit about the characteristics of thermite. Your simple "aluminum and rust" (in mixed power form) is used to weld steel rails together. Here is what Wikipedia says about the "aluminum and rust" reaction ... and it not just some "little-bit-of-rust-on-this-pipe-here-and-an-alumimun-beer-can-over-there" proximity that creates this highly exothermic reaction.

"From Wikipedia:

Thermite is a pyrotechnic composition of a metal powder and a metal oxide, which produces an exothermic oxidation-reduction reaction known as a thermite reaction. If aluminum is the reducing agent it is called an aluminothermic reaction. Most varieties are not explosive, but can create short bursts of extremely high temperatures focused on a very small area for a short period of time.

Thermites can be a diverse class of compositions. The fuels are often aluminium, magnesium, calcium, titanium, zinc, silicon, and boron. The oxidizers can be boron(III) oxide, silicon(IV) oxide, chromium(III) oxide, manganese(IV) oxide, iron(III) oxide, iron(II,III) oxide, copper(II) oxide, and lead(II,III,IV) oxide.

The most common thermite is aluminium-iron(III) oxide.

Reaction

The aluminium reduces the oxide of another metal, most commonly iron oxide, because aluminium is highly reactive:

Fe2O3 + 2Al → 2Fe + Al2O3 + heat

The products are aluminium oxide, free elemental iron,[2] and a large amount of heat. The reactants are commonly powdered and mixed with a binder to keep the material solid and prevent separation."

So are you dismissive of the ability of Thermite to weaken and cut steel beams?

Even though I suspect you already know this, I happen to know enough about thermite to have appeared as a demonstrator/instructor in an Army training film about using thermite destruction equipment (Grenades, plates, powder) to destroy COMSEC equipment and classified documents. So please, do not try to give me Wikipedia for something you need. Now go ahead and deny that all the components of thermite are not found in most office buildings.

lol...nonsense..we have already had exchanges about thermite where you showed you had only very limited understanding of the uses and properties of thermite due to a exercise you took a role in once in the army further more your line about the components of thermite being found in offices is a red herring you picked up from "debwunkers" not from any military training you received.. don't pretend

 

[SFC Ollie]

Mr. SFC Ollie:

Scientist and Physicists know quite a bit about the characteristics of thermite. Your simple "aluminum and rust" (in mixed power form) is used to weld steel rails together. Here is what Wikipedia says about the "aluminum and rust" reaction ... and it not just some "little-bit-of-rust-on-this-pipe-here-and-an-alumimun-beer-can-over-there" proximity that creates this highly exothermic reaction.

"From Wikipedia:

Thermite is a pyrotechnic composition of a metal powder and a metal oxide, which produces an exothermic oxidation-reduction reaction known as a thermite reaction. If aluminum is the reducing agent it is called an aluminothermic reaction. Most varieties are not explosive, but can create short bursts of extremely high temperatures focused on a very small area for a short period of time.

Thermites can be a diverse class of compositions. The fuels are often aluminium, magnesium, calcium, titanium, zinc, silicon, and boron. The oxidizers can be boron(III) oxide, silicon(IV) oxide, chromium(III) oxide, manganese(IV) oxide, iron(III) oxide, iron(II,III) oxide, copper(II) oxide, and lead(II,III,IV) oxide.

The most common thermite is aluminium-iron(III) oxide.

Reaction

The aluminium reduces the oxide of another metal, most commonly iron oxide, because aluminium is highly reactive:

Fe2O3 + 2Al → 2Fe + Al2O3 + heat

The products are aluminium oxide, free elemental iron,[2] and a large amount of heat. The reactants are commonly powdered and mixed with a binder to keep the material solid and prevent separation."

So are you dismissive of the ability of Thermite to weaken and cut steel beams?

Even though I suspect you already know this, I happen to know enough about thermite to have appeared as a demonstrator/instructor in an Army training film about using thermite destruction equipment (Grenades, plates, powder) to destroy COMSEC equipment and classified documents. So please, do not try to give me Wikipedia for something you need. Now go ahead and deny that all the components of thermite are not found in most office buildings.

lol...nonsense..we have already had exchanges about thermite where you showed you had only very limited understanding of the uses and properties of thermite due to a exercise you took a role in once in the army further more your line about the components of thermite being found in offices is a red herring you picked up from "debwunkers" not from any military training you received.. don't pretend

Are you denying that the components are there? Do you truly expect people to believe that un-ignited thermite was actually found in random dust samples? And yes I do believe we had a brief discussion of thermite before. That doesn't change the facts. And I don't think making a training film can be misconstrued as an exercise. Even by a truther. And do you really think they just have someone who knows nothing about the equipment do a training video? DUH!

 

[Wayne1954]

Now go ahead and deny that all the components of thermite are not found in most office buildings.

Mr. SFC Ollie:

You are absolutely correct on this one. Your credentials as a demonstrator/instructor in the army seem to have done well for you. I am glad that you pointed them out in reference to this particular issue ... because you really hit a home run.

I can only assume that you told your trainees that the pyrotechnic materials that you were going to demonstrate to them were no more that just old Budweiser cans and some rusty pipes heaped together and all you needed to do was add a fuse to the pull-top. Right?

So help me out here ... I am a little confused ...

Which of the following two things would get me in more trouble if I were to toss them in front of a public building:
1) A shopping bag full of Hostess Twinkies and a few empty Pepsi(R) glass bottles, or
2) A Molotov Cocktail (regardless of whether the wick was behaving highly exothermicly or not)?

Based on what you have pointed out ... both are nothing more than carbon and hydrogen (along with some silicon in the form of what we call 'glass'). Even if the wick were "lit" (or not) would not matter because the wick is nothing more that hydrogen and carbon ("lit" or not).

So ... actually the question is ... does the form and the combination / structure of the atoms in a material make a difference to you as a demonstrator/instructor or are the entire fields of physics, chemistry and material science simply irrelevant?

 

[SFC Ollie]

Now go ahead and deny that all the components of thermite are not found in most office buildings.

Mr. SFC Ollie:

You are absolutely correct on this one. Your credentials as a demonstrator/instructor in the army seem to have done well for you. I am glad that you pointed them out in reference to this particular issue ... because you really hit a home run.

I can only assume that you told your trainees that the pyrotechnic materials that you were going to demonstrate to them were no more that just old Budweiser cans and some rusty pipes heaped together and all you needed to do was add a fuse to the pull-top. Right?

So help me out here ... I am a little confused ...

Which of the following two things would get me in more trouble if I were to toss them in front of a public building:
1) A shopping bag full of Hostess Twinkies and a few empty Pepsi(R) glass bottles, or
2) A Molotov Cocktail (regardless of whether the wick was behaving highly exothermicly or not)?

Based on what you have pointed out ... both are nothing more than carbon and hydrogen (along with some silicon in the form of what we call 'glass'). Even if the wick were "lit" (or not) would not matter because the wick is nothing more that hydrogen and carbon ("lit" or not).

So ... actually the question is ... does the form and the combination / structure of the atoms in a material make a difference to you as a demonstrator/instructor or are the entire fields of physics, chemistry and material science simply irrelevant?

When you want to talk to me as an adult and not some imbecile, let me know.

 

[Wayne1954]

When you want to talk to me as an adult and not some imbecile, let me know.

Mr. SFC Ollie:

I must say that you had made quite an assertion ... that the molecular construction of material doesn't matter.

You had asserted that the mere presence of Aluminum, Iron and Oxygen in the vicinity of the WTC buidings is sufficient enough account for these red-gray chips. These remnants of explosively exothermic Aluminum and Iron-Oxide are, in fact, extremely highly engineered materials. Materials that are atomically unstable in that form (yet engineered to be safe enough to work with at what we humans call 'room temperature').

Mr. SFC Ollie, I do interact with adults, and I really do prefer talking to adults.

I like to listen to what they think they know and then try to find out if, indeed, they do know something I don't (and I then would need to learn something) or whether they are mis-informed ... in which case I might be able to provide some insight and offr something educational.

I hope you have learned not to repeat your previous assertion (which I hope you now see as seriously flawed).

 

[psikeyhackr]

um, when planes FULL of JET FUEL hit a building,

Doesn't a plane have to be a TANKER to be FULL of fuel?

The maximum capacity of those PASSENGER PLANES was 25,000 gallons but only had 10,000 gallons on impact.

That is only 40% but you call it FULL.

So we can't solve a simple grade school physics problem because of all of the propaganda being thrown around.

psik

 

[Wayne1954]

Mr. Psikeyhackr:

It is not just propaganda, it is a failure to stop and look at the facts and the physics and mechanics of what they are saying.

One of the great tragedies of 9/11 and the misinformation that followed it is that it discredits physics and science. It could have been a science and engineering lesson ... but the message was that what you saw didn't really happen.

I am a registered Professional Engineer and I reluctantly believed the official story because no other story was available. I kept waiting for a more credible story to appear in the media. Eventually, I had the opportunity to hear another version of the story from an architect that matched what I had seen … and what my engineering background taught me. Now it is obvious that the three skyscrapers were destroyed by controlled demolition. The latest videos obtained under the Freedom of Information Act let you hear the sounds of explosions that were cut out of anything that wasn't shown live as it occurred on September 11th.

 

[Wayne1954]

Here is a new video that shows that even ordinary thermite (yes "Aluminum and Rust") can cut steel columns like that which was used in the WTC. This was an engineer who shows how he developed a thermite based column-cutter at home to see if he could cut steel.

The National Geographic (and others) showed that if you were amateurish, the thermite would not do any damage to the steel. Such a failure was shown as one of this engineer's initial attempts. It hilights that a poor design won't cut steel. But that with a little enineering ... and some ingeneuity ... it can.

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5d5iIoCiI8g[/ame]

If you want to reply to this post, please watch the video first.

 

[DiveCon]

um, when planes FULL of JET FUEL hit a building,

Doesn't a plane have to be a TANKER to be FULL of fuel?

The maximum capacity of those PASSENGER PLANES was 25,000 gallons but only had 10,000 gallons on impact.

That is only 40% but you call it FULL.

So we can't solve a simple grade school physics problem because of all of the propaganda being thrown around.

psik

holy shit
nit pick some more minutia

they were as full as they could be, dipshit

 

[DiveCon]

Here is a new video that shows that even ordinary thermite (yes "Aluminum and Rust") can cut steel columns like that which was used in the WTC. This was an engineer who shows how he developed a thermite based column-cutter at home to see if he could cut steel.

The National Geographic (and others) showed that if you were amateurish, the thermite would not do any damage to the steel. Such a failure was shown as one of this engineer's initial attempts. It hilights that a poor design won't cut steel. But that with a little enineering ... and some ingeneuity ... it can.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5d5iIoCiI8g

If you want to reply to this post, please watch the video first.

ok, i wasted 15 minutes on that video

do you have any actual evidence that ANYTHING similar to what he made was at the WTC site?

 

[Wayne1954]

ok, i wasted 15 minutes on that video

do you have any actual evidence that ANYTHING similar to what he made was at the WTC site?

Mr. Divecon:

Based on your follow-up question, I do not think you wasted 15 minutes watching the video.

In your response to your follow-up question, the ansewer is an overwhelming YES. It took me years to move my "controlled-demolition-o-meter" to 100 percent, so I think you are on your way to re-interpreteting the events of nearly 10 years ago.

Evidence (this is an incomplete list because I need to attend to some Sunday morning activities):

1) There are reports of molten metal by firemen and engineers who worked on the site. Office fires cannot create molten iron. There are remnants of these that are called "WTC meteors" (No other explanation for this in the official NIST explanations).

2) One-tenth of the WTC dust is estimated to be tiny iron spheres. This would be the results of elemental iron from a thermite reaction being exploded out into the air and cooling as tiny iron spheres. (No other explanation for this in the official NIST explanation).

3) There is the presence of the tiny red-gray chips that have been analyzed to be shown to be highly energetic, finely mixed at the atomic level, thermite (No other explanation for this in the official NIST explanation).

4) FEMA's Appendix "C" looks at some of the severely eroded iron pieces and concluded that whatver did it was unknown. In the video, you will remember Jonathan peeling a carrot on the corner of one of the cut.melted pieces. That scene was a direct reference to the "razor sharp" edges or unknown origin in the FEMA Appendix C Metalulogical Investigation.

5) The EPA's air monitoring of September 11th notes never-seen-before chemicals of unknown origin (1-2-3 di-benelpropane (or butane or something like that). It is reported that this is a by-product of some high explosives.

6) There are videos of molten iron pouring out of the building from the crash site. Possibly poorly ignited from the fire (and not igniters) and reacted (with or without doing damage to the suppporting structure).

So the evidence is overwhelming. Thanks for watching the video!

Gotta run for now.

 

[SFC Ollie]

Here is a new video that shows that even ordinary thermite (yes "Aluminum and Rust") can cut steel columns like that which was used in the WTC. This was an engineer who shows how he developed a thermite based column-cutter at home to see if he could cut steel.

The National Geographic (and others) showed that if you were amateurish, the thermite would not do any damage to the steel. Such a failure was shown as one of this engineer's initial attempts. It hilights that a poor design won't cut steel. But that with a little enineering ... and some ingeneuity ... it can.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5d5iIoCiI8g

If you want to reply to this post, please watch the video first.

ok, i wasted 15 minutes on that video

do you have any actual evidence that ANYTHING similar to what he made was at the WTC site?

Nope, all they have is some explosive dust.
That didn't explode.



http://www.911myths.com/html/traces_of_thermate_at_the_wtc.html

 

[eots]

Here is a new video that shows that even ordinary thermite (yes "Aluminum and Rust") can cut steel columns like that which was used in the WTC. This was an engineer who shows how he developed a thermite based column-cutter at home to see if he could cut steel.

The National Geographic (and others) showed that if you were amateurish, the thermite would not do any damage to the steel. Such a failure was shown as one of this engineer's initial attempts. It hilights that a poor design won't cut steel. But that with a little enineering ... and some ingeneuity ... it can.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5d5iIoCiI8g

If you want to reply to this post, please watch the video first.

ok, i wasted 15 minutes on that video

do you have any actual evidence that ANYTHING similar to what he made was at the WTC site?

Nope, all they have is some explosive dust.
That didn't explode.



Traces of thermate at the WTC

lil ollie blow-hard likes to pretend he has extensive knowledge of thermite
because he played some role in demonstrating its use in a very limited way

its a classic case of...ya you and whose army ?

 

[SFC Ollie]

ok, i wasted 15 minutes on that video

do you have any actual evidence that ANYTHING similar to what he made was at the WTC site?

Nope, all they have is some explosive dust.
That didn't explode.



Traces of thermate at the WTC

lil ollie blow-hard likes to pretend he has extensive knowledge of thermite
because he played some role in demonstrating its use in a very limited way

its a classic case of...ya you and whose army ?

Me and my Army dumb fuck. now You will have to excuse me while I bring up my military experience that you don't like to hear about. 22 years on active duty, all but 6 years of it involved in Tactical Communications Security. But I don't know jack about thermite and it's uses to destroy stuff. The veterans who read this will know.

Carry on now.

 

[eots]

Nope, all they have is some explosive dust.
That didn't explode.



Traces of thermate at the WTC

lil ollie blow-hard likes to pretend he has extensive knowledge of thermite
because he played some role in demonstrating its use in a very limited way

its a classic case of...ya you and whose army ?

Me and my Army dumb fuck. now You will have to excuse me while I bring up my military experience that you don't like to hear about. 22 years on active duty, all but 6 years of it involved in Tactical Communications Security. But I don't know jack about thermite and it's uses to destroy stuff. The veterans who read this will know.

Carry on now.

can thernite melt steel ?

can termite cut horizontally ?

are massive amounts needed to do any damage ?

is thermite in common use for underwater cutting and welding ?

sorry lil Ollie you have demonstrated very clearly you have a very limited knowledge on thermite mainly garnered from debwunking sites not personal experience...true story