6 Dem congressmen/woman call for INSURRECTION against the trump administration

[StatesRightsForever]

They keep telling the military they don't need to follow illegal orders. This is a fact and all military members know it. The problem is the orders they want them to ignore are just inconvenient for the left wing argument and not illegal at all. Disobeying them could be a court-martial offense.

Indeed. Any soldier can say "That order is illegal and i will not obey it."

 

[Darkwind]

They also didn't mention simply disobeying orders either. In fact, they specified that the only orders they could disobey were illegal ones. So, to you the same question. What's the problem with that principle?

Two problems with it.

1. Of course, no member of the military is obligated to follow an unlawful order, but the fact that they direct it specifically at leadership and very publicly puts into the minds of the members and the public that Trump HAS issued an unlawful order. That is sedition at the very least.

2. Their plea is quite plain. If the orders are unlawful, you must follow what we say you should do. THAT is semantics, but also very close to treason.

Trump would be wise to just point at their tiny dicks and say, "We never encourage our military to follow unlawful orders. Why do you think we removed those who did from the ranks?

 

[forkup]

Only after exhausting every other avenue. There is a chain of command, and unless you are the country's best Constitutional lawyer, you had best be able to prove the law was illegal, at which time the COURT would declare the order unlawful.

These Democrats are walking right up to the very edge of treason. Of course a military member should not obey an unlawful command, there is a supposition in the entire thing that Trump HAS issued an illegal order and that they -- the military -- were obligated to follow them.

Americans are seeing right through this ruse.

Trump is calling for them to be held accountable for it and that if found guilty, a possible outcome could be death.

Do try to grasp and understand things before commenting.

What happens if the court declares an order unlawful that someone in the military has already executed?

You think "I was just following orders" is an excuse?

MSN

See, Trump is covered. Remember the Seal team six killing people argument that was laughed away?

Don't look now but the Trump administration is deciding to kill people because they claim they are "narco-terrorists" without proof they are or for that matter congressional oversight. Trump is immune thanks to the Supreme court. What happens to admiral Doe when a judge finds the orders illegal?

 

[buttercup]

Daily kos?

Sorry but the title is already maliciously worded, wrongly I might add. And you cite the one of the most left-wing news sources on the internet? That article has no credibility.

Furthermore, the one thing you don't do is encourage our troops to disobey orders. That's tantamount to calling for an insurrection.

The last thing you do is try to sow discord in the world's most stable and powerful military. Period. Full stop.

Don't expect a warm reaction to calls for our troops to openly defy their CinC without a justifiable, legal reason.

It literally takes 5 seconds to go to his "Truth Social" site and verify if it's true. I just did (AGAIN...it seems I'm always having to verify his insane, inflammatory or embarassingly juvenile posts) and sure enough, it's there.

Here's the link if you want to see for yourself:

https://truthsocial.com/@realDonaldTrump/posts/115582703277798715

The time it took you (or anyone else) to reply with the usual dismissal because of the source, you could have checked for yourself.

 

[MarathonMike]

We have never had a President call for the murder of his political opponents before. This man has the military and the nuclear codes.

Oh no! President Trump is going to execute the "Slimy 6" Democrats by nuclear missile? AIIIIIEEEEEE!!!!

 

[forkup]

1. Of course, no member of the military is obligated to follow an unlawful order, but the fact that they direct it specifically at leadership and very publicly puts into the minds of the members and the public that Trump HAS issued an unlawful order. That is sedition at the very least.

18 U.S. Code § 2384 - Seditious conspiracy

www.law.cornell.edu

Here you go support that conclusion.

2. Their plea is quite plain. If the orders are unlawful, you must follow what we say you should do. THAT is semantics, but also very close to treason.

18 U.S. Code § 2381 - Treason

www.law.cornell.edu

Here to.

 

[Darkwind]

What happens if the court declares an order unlawful that someone in the military has already executed?

You think "I was just following orders" is an excuse?

MSN

See, Trump is covered. Remember the Seal team six killing people argument that was laughed away?

Don't look now but the Trump administration is deciding to kill people because they claim they are "narco-terrorists" without proof they are or for that matter congressional oversight. Trump is immune thanks to the Supreme court. What happens to admiral Doe when a judge finds the orders illegal?

Then you must consider that you'll be in legal jeopardy for disobeying an order. An unlawful determination by the person in question is legally problematic at best.

In either case, this was a calculated appeal to get the military to see them as an authority while hinting that Trump had issued unlawful orders to them.

He has not, and in our system of governance, how lawful anything can be is determined by the High Court.

 

[berg80]

There is a chain of command, and unless you are the country's best Constitutional lawyer, you had best be able to prove the law was illegal, at which time the COURT would declare the order unlawful.

Maybe what needs to happen is to have the regime defend the extra judicial killings in a court of law. Not just go to Congress with a half-assed briefing absent info on the people who were targeted and absent a tested legal rationale to justify ordering the murders of those people in boats.

 

[OhPleaseJustQuit]

It literally takes 5 seconds to go to his "Truth Social" site and verify if it's true. I just did (AGAIN...it seems I'm always having to verify his insane, inflammatory or embarassingly juvenile posts) and sure enough, it's there.

Here's the link if you want to see for yourself:

https://truthsocial.com/@realDonaldTrump/posts/115582703277798715

The time it took you (or anyone else) to reply with the usual dismissal because of the source, you could have checked for yourself.

.

Won't make much difference at Nuremberg 2.0






.

 

[Darkwind]

18 U.S. Code § 2384 - Seditious conspiracy

www.law.cornell.edu

Here you go support that conclusion.

18 U.S. Code § 2381 - Treason

www.law.cornell.edu

Here to.

Constitutional and Statutory Provisions for Treason and Sedition​

There is no provision for the death penalty for sedition in current federal law. However, the death penalty does technically remain available for treason under constitutional and statutory law, though it is rarely applied in modern times. The distinction between these two offenses is critical.

Treason: Death Penalty Authorized​

Constitutional Text (Article III, Section 3):annenbergclassroom+1

Treason against the United States, shall consist only in levying War against them, or in adhering to their Enemies, giving them Aid and Comfort. No Person shall be convicted of Treason unless on the testimony of two Witnesses to the same overt Act, or on Confession in open Court. The Congress shall have Power to declare the Punishment of Treason, but no Attainder of Treason shall work Corruption of Blood, or Forfeiture except during the Life of the Person attainted.

Federal Statutory Text (18 U.S.C. § 2381):uscode.house

Whoever, owing allegiance to the United States, levies war against them or adheres to their enemies, giving them aid and comfort within the United States or elsewhere, is guilty of treason and shall suffer death, or shall be imprisoned not less than five years and fined under this title but not less than $10,000; and shall be incapable of holding any office under the United States.

The statute explicitly provides for the death penalty as one sentencing option for treason convictions, making death penalty prosecution theoretically permissible. Notably, the Constitution restricts the definition of treason and requires either two witnesses to the same overt act or a confession in open court for conviction—a significantly higher evidentiary standard than typical criminal cases.

Sedition: No Death Penalty Available​

18 U.S.C. § 2384 (Seditious Conspiracy):uscode.house

If two or more persons in any State or Territory, or in any place subject to the jurisdiction of the United States, conspire to overthrow, put down, or to destroy by force the Government of the United States, or to levy war against them, or to oppose by force the authority thereof, or by force to prevent, hinder, or delay the execution of any law of the United States, or by force to seize, take, or possess any property of the United States contrary to the authority thereof, they shall each be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than twenty years, or both.

18 U.S.C. § 2385 (Advocating Overthrow of Government):uscode.house

Whoever knowingly or willfully advocates, abets, advises, or teaches the duty, necessity, desirability, or propriety of overthrowing or destroying the government of the United States or the government of any State, Territory, District or Possession thereof, or the government of any political subdivision therein, by force or violence, or by the assassination of any officer of any such government; or Whoever, with intent to cause the overthrow or destruction of any such government, prints, publishes, edits, issues, circulates, sells, distributes, or publicly displays any written or printed matter advocating, advising, or teaching the duty, necessity, desirability, or propriety of overthrowing or destroying any government in the United States by force or violence, or attempts to do so... Shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than twenty years, or both, and shall be ineligible for employment by the United States or any department or agency thereof, for the five years next following his conviction.

Both sedition statutes cap punishment at twenty years imprisonment—the death penalty is expressly unavailable for sedition in current federal law.

Key Distinctions​

The critical difference is that treason is narrowly defined in the Constitution itself (limited to levying war or adhering to enemies with aid and comfort), while sedition refers to broader categories of conduct opposing government authority. Treason retains the death penalty as a theoretical sentencing option, while sedition does not. In practice, capital punishment for treason has not been carried out in the United States since the Civil War era, and modern courts would face significant constitutional constraints under Eighth Amendment jurisprudence.

1. Article III, Section 3 – Annenberg Classroom
2. The Constitution of the United States: A Transcription
3. https://uscode.house.gov/view.xhtml?req=granuleid:USC-1999-title18-section2381&num=0&edition=1999
4. https://uscode.house.gov/view.xhtml?req=granuleid:USC-1999-title18-section2384&num=0&edition=1999
5. https://uscode.house.gov/view.xhtml...elim-title18-section2385&num=0&edition=prelim
6. Trump accuses Democrats of 'seditious behavior, punishable by death,' for urging military to ignore illegal orders
7. ‘Punishable by DEATH’: Trump threatens Democrats with sedition charges
8. https://www.reuters.com/world/us/tr...fuse-illegal-orders-deserve-death-2025-11-20/
9. What Is Treason?
10. Treason laws in the United States - Wikipedia
11. 18 U.S. Code § 2384 - Seditious conspiracy
12. Treason - Wikipedia
13. https://tile.loc.gov/storage-servic...uscode1988-007018115/uscode1988-007018115.pdf
14. Federal Treason, Sedition, & Subversive Activities Criminal Charges
15. Las Vegas Treason, Sedition, and Subversive Activities Defense Lawyer
16. https://www.fjc.gov/sites/default/files/trials/seditionacts.pdf
17. Treason | Research Starters | EBSCO Research
18. Article III
19. https://law.justia.com/codes/us/1999/title18/parti/chap115/sec2384/
20. 2059. Synopses Of Key Internal Security Provisions
21. 18 U.S. Code § 2385 - Advocating overthrow of Government
22. Treason Clause: Doctrine and Practice

 

[Mac-7]

It should also be noted that the maximum punishment under the actual sedition statute is 20 years, it does not include death.

Ok, I’ll meet libs halfway

No hanging just 20 years in prison

Next issue

 

[Darkwind]

Maybe what needs to happen is to have the regime defend the extra judicial killings in a court of law. Not just go to Congress with a half-assed briefing absent info on the people who were targeted and absent a tested legal rationale to justify ordering the murders of those people in boats.

Knock yourself out.

 

[Meister]

Okay.......It's been asked, but I really haven't seen an answer.
What exactly has Trump asked of the troops that is illegal?
Anyone?


If it's all just hypothetical...then this is just a BS thread to smear Trump.
Typical from the democrats.

 

[forkup]

Then you must consider that you'll be in legal jeopardy for disobeying an order. An unlawful determination by the person in question is legally problematic at best.

In either case, this was a calculated appeal to get the military to see them as an authority while hinting that Trump had issued unlawful orders to them.

He has not, and in our system of governance, how lawful anything can be is determined by the High Court.

What do you mean by unlawful determination? If admiral doe is deemed to have killed people unlawfully he is on the hook for premeditated murder and he can't claim that he was just following orders as I have just established.

 

[Darkwind]

What do you mean by unlawful determination? If admiral doe is deemed to have killed people unlawfully he is on the hook for premeditated murder and he can't claim that he was just following orders as I have just established.

Who determines he is on the hook for premeditated murder? <-- BTW, a suspiciously specific charge.

 

[forkup]

Constitutional and Statutory Provisions for Treason and Sedition​

There is no provision for the death penalty for sedition in current federal law. However, the death penalty does technically remain available for treason under constitutional and statutory law, though it is rarely applied in modern times. The distinction between these two offenses is critical.

Treason: Death Penalty Authorized​

Constitutional Text (Article III, Section 3):annenbergclassroom+1


Federal Statutory Text (18 U.S.C. § 2381):uscode.house


The statute explicitly provides for the death penalty as one sentencing option for treason convictions, making death penalty prosecution theoretically permissible. Notably, the Constitution restricts the definition of treason and requires either two witnesses to the same overt act or a confession in open court for conviction—a significantly higher evidentiary standard than typical criminal cases.

Sedition: No Death Penalty Available​

18 U.S.C. § 2384 (Seditious Conspiracy):uscode.house


18 U.S.C. § 2385 (Advocating Overthrow of Government):uscode.house


Both sedition statutes cap punishment at twenty years imprisonment—the death penalty is expressly unavailable for sedition in current federal law.

Key Distinctions​

The critical difference is that treason is narrowly defined in the Constitution itself (limited to levying war or adhering to enemies with aid and comfort), while sedition refers to broader categories of conduct opposing government authority. Treason retains the death penalty as a theoretical sentencing option, while sedition does not. In practice, capital punishment for treason has not been carried out in the United States since the Civil War era, and modern courts would face significant constitutional constraints under Eighth Amendment jurisprudence.

1. Article III, Section 3 – Annenberg Classroom
2. The Constitution of the United States: A Transcription
3. https://uscode.house.gov/view.xhtml?req=granuleid:USC-1999-title18-section2381&num=0&edition=1999
4. https://uscode.house.gov/view.xhtml?req=granuleid:USC-1999-title18-section2384&num=0&edition=1999
5. https://uscode.house.gov/view.xhtml?req=granuleid:USC-prelim-title18-section2385&num=0&edition=prelim
6. Trump accuses Democrats of 'seditious behavior, punishable by death,' for urging military to ignore illegal orders
7. ‘Punishable by DEATH’: Trump threatens Democrats with sedition charges
8. https://www.reuters.com/world/us/tr...fuse-illegal-orders-deserve-death-2025-11-20/
9. What Is Treason?
10. Treason laws in the United States - Wikipedia
11. 18 U.S. Code § 2384 - Seditious conspiracy
12. Treason - Wikipedia
13. https://tile.loc.gov/storage-servic...uscode1988-007018115/uscode1988-007018115.pdf
14. Federal Treason, Sedition, & Subversive Activities Criminal Charges
15. Las Vegas Treason, Sedition, and Subversive Activities Defense Lawyer
16. https://www.fjc.gov/sites/default/files/trials/seditionacts.pdf
17. Treason | Research Starters | EBSCO Research
18. Article III
19. https://law.justia.com/codes/us/1999/title18/parti/chap115/sec2384/
20. 2059. Synopses Of Key Internal Security Provisions
21. 18 U.S. Code § 2385 - Advocating overthrow of Government
22. Treason Clause: Doctrine and Practice

A whole lot of text you quoted can you support that what these senators said qualifies as sedition or treason in any of it?

 

[konradv]

Daily kos?

Sorry but the title is already maliciously worded, wrongly I might add. And you cite the one of the most left-wing news sources on the internet? That article has no credibility.

Furthermore, the one thing you don't do is encourage our troops to disobey orders. That's tantamount to calling for an insurrection.

The last thing you do is try to sow discord in the world's most stable and powerful military. Period. Full stop.

Don't expect a warm reaction to calls for our troops to openly defy their CinC without a justifiable, legal reason.

What’s more malicious than this?

 

[Zincwarrior]

I don’t think he’s that calculating. The guy just says shit without thinking about repercussions.

He is the President of the US. He does not have that luxury.

 

[gtopa1]

In the wake of Charlie Kirk, there were calls by the right to end the violent rhetoric under accusations it was fueling hate and violence (which I agree with). I guess the president didn't get that memo.

Trump doubles down and calls for the execution of Democrat lawmakers. More from Trump claims their words are seditious and states they should be put to death.

For the record, sedition is the advocacy of violence against the government. The lawmakers involved were advocating peace by the government. It's kind of literally the opposition of sedition.

It should also be noted that the maximum punishment under the actual sedition statute is 20 years, it does not include death.

Trump Supports Calls To Hang Political Opponents

President Trump is supporting calls to hang opposition lawmakers. Six Democrats in Congress called upon members of the military to disobey illegal orders to murder alleged drug traffickers on the high seas. Trump responded by posting that these...

www.dailykos.com

Tempting.

Greg

 

[forkup]

Who determines he is on the hook for premeditated murder? <-- BTW, a suspiciously specific charge.

A judge if he determines that the killing was unlawful. And yes, it's specific. Because you know... blowing a boat out of the water requires quite a bit of planning. I guess Admiral Doe can claim he misplaced a Harpoon, but I don't think it'll stick. So, I'll ask again. What happens to this guy, since you have a problem with senators stating the law because it puts military personnel in legal jeopardy.