300 Union Plumbers Spent The Weekend Installing Water Filters For Flint Residents For Free

[pwjohn]

Hey ya know, if I lived in flint I'd abandon my lead water supply line in place and replace its copper.

But if the street supply line is made of lead than all I've done is waste my money.

We're getting somewhere.

Lead did not come from the city lines, since city doesn't use lead pipes.

Now if you have lead lines in your home and old homes do have lead water lines, they're your responsibility, not city's.

So you're dumb enough to take their word for it!

I'd make em prove it by digging up the lines.

Look shitstain, it's not about taking their word for it, it's common sense that you don't have. It's just not economically feasible to use lead in place of much cheaper concrete and steel. Now, that would be economics, another think you know nothing about.

So now I'm a shit stain? Well the best part of you ran down the crack of your mothers shit stained ass.

 

[pwjohn]

So you're dumb enough to take their word for it!

I'd make em prove it by digging up the lines.

Look shitstain, it's not about taking their word for it, it's common sense that you don't have. It's just not economically feasible to use lead in place of much cheaper concrete and steel. Now, that would be economics, another think you know nothing about.

Absolutely nothing makes sense about what the Michigan governor did do to those poor people living in flint.

 

[Ame®icano]

So now I'm a shit stain? Well the best part of you ran down the crack of your mothers shit stained ass.

Oh, it's perfectly for you to call me dumb, but you're offended when you get some of your own medicine in return.

You started it and now you're complaining. Moron.

 

[Ame®icano]

So you're dumb enough to take their word for it!

I'd make em prove it by digging up the lines.

Look shitstain, it's not about taking their word for it, it's common sense that you don't have. It's just not economically feasible to use lead in place of much cheaper concrete and steel. Now, that would be economics, another think you know nothing about.

Absolutely nothing makes sense about what the Michigan governor did do to those poor people living in flint.

How Flint's city water supply is any of the governors business? Flint's city council made decision to switch, they insisted on it, they got EPA's approval (btw EPA forged the results) and somehow Michigan government is responsible. Really?

 

[pwjohn]

So you're dumb enough to take their word for it!

I'd make em prove it by digging up the lines.

Look shitstain, it's not about taking their word for it, it's common sense that you don't have. It's just not economically feasible to use lead in place of much cheaper concrete and steel. Now, that would be economics, another think you know nothing about.

Absolutely nothing makes sense about what the Michigan governor did do to those poor people living in flint.

How Flint's city water supply is any of the governors business? Flint's city council made decision to switch, they insisted on it, they got EPA's approval (btw EPA forged the results) and somehow Michigan government is responsible. Really?

Than why did the dumass governor take responsibility for his man made disaster.

 

[Political Junky]

The untreated river water leaches lead for the pipes, which the lake water didn't do.

I don't get this... "leaches lead for the pipes".

Or from the pipes?

OK, but whose pipes, if city pipes are not made of lead?

From the pipes.

 

[pwjohn]

Water in Flint, Michigan is still to this day, not safe to drink. Lending institutions are no longer funding mortgages, making the sale of homes there nearly impossible.

 

[EverCurious]

The previous water supply was treated so that the lead pipes in the homes were not leaching into the water (think of it like sealing the inside of the pipes sort of), the new water supply wasn't treated the same way. The gov should have at least warned the folks that the new supply wouldn't be treated so they needed to treat their pipes - which I'm guessing is the filter the plumbers installed; on the main lines into the home with w/e treatment the old water supply had to prevent lead leaching.

Either way, old supply, or free filters, this is a Band-Aid solution. All the pipes need to be replaced or the problem is just going to continue to crop up - as it has all over the country. I've always found it interesting that the gov is all over regulating the shit out of everything, but they don't condemn houses with lead pipes, even though it's far more a hazard than a lot of shit they do condemn places for - like falling plaster.

IDK about the rest of the country, but up here in Alaska we have a bunch of stupid rules and regulations that one /must/ meet before you can sell your house; GFCI's within five feet of any water source (including exterior drain spouts lol), all second story windows must be side slide openers to meet fire code, dryer vents cannot be located under things (like porches wtf), any detached "structure" must be on a proper pad (like my husband and I had built a small firewood box with a shingled roof and had to remove it because it wasn't on a 4' deep cement pad or cinder blocks)... We are also required by law to disclose any indication of lead pipes or paint and most home inspectors test both the paint and the water (in fact, if you're on a well a detailed water test and inspection of the well is required - though this one is a bank requirement not gov.)

 

[Iceweasel]

PEX is the cheaper solution in the long run, in my opinion. I wouldn't want to drink a chemical that prevents lead from leeching from the pipes. How good can that be for you? Lead has been a known problem since the Roman Empire, I wonder what went on there. I'm wondering if they are talking about lead in copper solder joints? Lead has been banned for home use since '78.

 

[Maryland Patriot]

Good for them.....
But seriously,if you found out there was a problem with your water and there was a filter available to fix it......why wouldnt it have been done already by the homeowner?

exactly, I have well water, It has an Iron content to it. I had to buy and I maintain a filtration system that removes Iron and any bacteria that might be there, then I send it through a Reverse Osmosis system.
I pay for this myself. I really dont see why others cant do the same.

 

[EverCurious]

^ True, we have to soften our water and we've pondered the reverse osmosis system thing as we've got iron as well, but just have a filter.

It is something that we pay for ourselves, and I can agree with the idea that folks need to be responsible for testing and ensuring their water is good, however, I also think that the gov should have notified the area of the situation with the treatment and such - and it seems like there was a bit of a cover-up, in that the reports that the new water was bad were not disclosed to residents. What is the point of paying for folks to test the water if they're not going to tell you it's not up to snuff? Gov. waste...

 

[EverCurious]

PEX is the cheaper solution in the long run, in my opinion. I wouldn't want to drink a chemical that prevents lead from leeching from the pipes. How good can that be for you? Lead has been a known problem since the Roman Empire, I wonder what went on there. I'm wondering if they are talking about lead in copper solder joints? Lead has been banned for home use since '78.

hmm I found this for lead leaching - Lead Dioxide Coating In Pipes Can Help Reduce Lead Contamination Of Drinking Water | Chemical & Engineering News

Also, I thought PEX was leaching production chemicals into the water, wasn't there some big hoopla about that a while back?

 

[Iceweasel]

... why did the dumass governor take responsibility for his man made disaster.

Because he's a Republican, not a Democrat.

 

[Iceweasel]

PEX is the cheaper solution in the long run, in my opinion. I wouldn't want to drink a chemical that prevents lead from leeching from the pipes. How good can that be for you? Lead has been a known problem since the Roman Empire, I wonder what went on there. I'm wondering if they are talking about lead in copper solder joints? Lead has been banned for home use since '78.

hmm I found this for lead leaching - Lead Dioxide Coating In Pipes Can Help Reduce Lead Contamination Of Drinking Water | Chemical & Engineering News

Also, I thought PEX was leaching production chemicals into the water, wasn't there some big hoopla about that a while back?

I filter my drinking water and wouldn't want to ingest lead dioxide either. PEX has been in use in Europe for much longer than here. I haven't heard of problems except the first generation (gray) sucks and fittings can come undone. I'm a copper fan myself and have soldered numerous homes.

 

[bullwinkle]

So you're dumb enough to take their word for it!

I'd make em prove it by digging up the lines.

Look shitstain, it's not about taking their word for it, it's common sense that you don't have. It's just not economically feasible to use lead in place of much cheaper concrete and steel. Now, that would be economics, another think you know nothing about.

Absolutely nothing makes sense about what the Michigan governor did do to those poor people living in flint.

How Flint's city water supply is any of the governors business? Flint's city council made decision to switch, they insisted on it, they got EPA's approval (btw EPA forged the results) and somehow Michigan government is responsible. Really?

You are wrong, Americano. The Emergency manager made the decision, not the City council. Matter of fact, the council complained bitterly about the city manager in the first place as being unnecessary. But I still feel the decision was an innocent one, and feel it is not the issue. At issue is that the switch was not properly researched and soon as the disaster was evident, steps should have been taken instead of an 18 mo coverup and denial and finger-pointing at the other guy. At this time, the deciding city manager appointed to over-ride city management, Darrel Early, has currently split and US Marshalls are trying to track him down to issue a subpoena. The EPA director has also lost her job.

 

[EverCurious]

I filter my drinking water and wouldn't want to ingest lead dioxide either. PEX has been in use in Europe for much longer than here. I haven't heard of problems except the first generation (gray) sucks and fittings can come undone. I'm a copper fan myself and have soldered numerous homes.

hmmm I'll see if I feel like researching w/e leaching issue later.

We've got PEX on our radiant floor heating, had to go through some hoopla with some kind of filter or something for rust, but other than that it was easy and quick to install. I suppose I should check the fittings on it as I have no idea if they're copper or not, but we've not had any leaks or anything in the few years it's been installed.

 

[pwjohn]

... why did the dumass governor take responsibility for his man made disaster.

Because he's a Republican, not a Democrat.

Than why hasn't he stepped down, resigned ?

 

[EverCurious]

I'd mixed up the threads and posted this in the wrong one lol

RE: plumbers installing filters discussion - With this new bit about the "new" water being more corrosive I was able to hunt this down - Corrosive Water Problems (Water Quality) ~ Thus it's possible that a simple pH adjustment at the main intake line could actually resolve the problem for Flint homes.

"Treatment units such as neutralizing filters or chemical feed systems can be installed to reduce water corrosivity by adding alkaline chemicals to the water. Since corrosion affects the entire plumbing system, these treatment devices are installed where the water enters the home to treat all of the household water (Point-of-Entry or POE).

Acid neutralizing filters are very simple water treatment units that are intended to increase pH and add calcium thereby decreasing corrosivity. They consist of a tank filled with calcium carbonate (limestone) chips, marble chips, magnesium oxide, or other alkaline material. The acid neutralizing filter is usually installed after the pressure tank. Raw water flows through the tank and as it contacts the media, its pH is increased and corrosivity decreased. It is important to note that this process will increase the hardness of the water but this is necessary for proper corrosion control. Also, the resistance of the neutralizing material may lower water pressure.

Frequent maintenance is required for neutralizing filters. The tank must be routinely refilled with neutralizing material as it is dissolved. The rate of refilling can range from weeks to months depending on the raw water corrosivity, water use, and the type of neutralizing material. Backwashing is recommended to remove trapped particles and oxidized metals unless a sediment filter is installed ahead of the unit.

Corrosivity can also be treated by injecting a sodium hydroxide or soda ash solution using a chemical feed pump before the pressure tank. This treatment system is simple and inexpensive and it does not increase water hardness. Since the unit is installed ahead of the pressure tank, there is no reduction in water pressure that sometimes occurs with neutralizing filters. There is significant maintenance including filling solution tanks and maintaining the feed pump. Soda ash is preferred over sodium hydroxide because it is safer to handle. Sodium hydroxide is extremely caustic and must be handled using accepted safety practices."


I did notice in this article here it states that lead pipes were not made illegal until 1991... I'm going to look into if that was just PA or what, because I could swear I was told that if your home was built after 1978 you didn't have to worry about lead... Was it /really/ just lead paint that was banned and not lead pipes?!?

 

[bullwinkle]

I'd mixed up the threads and posted this in the wrong one lol

RE: plumbers installing filters discussion - With this new bit about the "new" water being more corrosive I was able to hunt this down - Corrosive Water Problems (Water Quality) ~ Thus it's possible that a simple pH adjustment at the main intake line could actually resolve the problem for Flint homes.

"Treatment units such as neutralizing filters or chemical feed systems can be installed to reduce water corrosivity by adding alkaline chemicals to the water. Since corrosion affects the entire plumbing system, these treatment devices are installed where the water enters the home to treat all of the household water (Point-of-Entry or POE).

Acid neutralizing filters are very simple water treatment units that are intended to increase pH and add calcium thereby decreasing corrosivity. They consist of a tank filled with calcium carbonate (limestone) chips, marble chips, magnesium oxide, or other alkaline material. The acid neutralizing filter is usually installed after the pressure tank. Raw water flows through the tank and as it contacts the media, its pH is increased and corrosivity decreased. It is important to note that this process will increase the hardness of the water but this is necessary for proper corrosion control. Also, the resistance of the neutralizing material may lower water pressure.

Frequent maintenance is required for neutralizing filters. The tank must be routinely refilled with neutralizing material as it is dissolved. The rate of refilling can range from weeks to months depending on the raw water corrosivity, water use, and the type of neutralizing material. Backwashing is recommended to remove trapped particles and oxidized metals unless a sediment filter is installed ahead of the unit.

Corrosivity can also be treated by injecting a sodium hydroxide or soda ash solution using a chemical feed pump before the pressure tank. This treatment system is simple and inexpensive and it does not increase water hardness. Since the unit is installed ahead of the pressure tank, there is no reduction in water pressure that sometimes occurs with neutralizing filters. There is significant maintenance including filling solution tanks and maintaining the feed pump. Soda ash is preferred over sodium hydroxide because it is safer to handle. Sodium hydroxide is extremely caustic and must be handled using accepted safety practices."


I did notice in this article here it states that lead pipes were not made illegal until 1991... I'm going to look into if that was just PA or what, because I could swear I was told that if your home was built after 1978 you didn't have to worry about lead... Was it /really/ just lead paint that was banned and not lead pipes?!?

Hope this helps explain how this disaster came about:

The heroes of the Flint water crisis

 

[EverCurious]

I'm not sure why you are quoting this to me sir. I /know/ why its happening, because back in the day lead pipes were the norm for building homes in the US, we were unaware of the negative effects of lead ingestion at the time. When we as a country discovered the harmful effects, we passed laws to remove lead, from paint, gas, and pipes as well. The government has actually already taken more responsibility for this unfortunate situation than they are /technically/ required to do by law - because it was the right thing to do for the country's kids.

While I do agree that they should have notified the people that the new water was not being treated, I disagree that it is solely the responsibility of the government to fix the problem. It should be upon the home owner and rental owners to upgrade their plumbing and remove the lead pipes. I would /not/ be against renters suing the owners/managers of the apartment buildings for medical costs and suffering frankly, it's not like the lead pipe thing is a "new" development, we've know it is a problem for over 30 years now. If owners choose not to upgrade their house, or a house they are renting, then I'm afraid they bare the brunt of the responsibility here, not the gov. Though again, the gov. /should/ have notified the people that the "new" water was not being treated and that they should test their water so there is clearly a problem with the gov. knowing about the situation but saying nothing that needs to be investigated here, but it's not really the gov.'s fault that the homeowners didn't upgrade.

If we are going to say that lead pipes in a private home are the responsibility of the government, where does that stop? Should the government be inspecting every persons home to ensure that there are no weak spots in the floor, or is that part of the responsibility of the owner? If my homes gutter is pouring water down the house and eating away at the foundation, is that the governments responsibility or mine? If my septic system is too small for the home, is that the governments responsibility to fix or mine? There is a distinct line between government responsibility and home owner responsibility, the government should indeed put out information about hazards and such, but it is ultimately the owners responsibility to maintain their home.