$3.5T Not As Big As You Might Think

[Smokin' OP]

That was Obama saying he was acting tough before the election, but he'd
kiss Putin's butt after he was re-elected.

Did he pull US missiles out of the Czech Republic and Poland because he was being tough?

The decision to abandon the Intermediate-Range Nuclear Forces Treaty has raised concerns about a renewed arms race with Moscow. But it's not a surprise.

You think Trump pulled out of this treaty to make Putin feel better?

Yes, he did because Putin owns Trump.

'That was Obama saying he was acting tough before the election'.
So that's why Obama said he could be flexible?
Is that Trump talk resembling 'tough'?

'he'dkiss Putin's butt after he was re-elected'.
Sure, that's why it was Trump who did exactly what Putin wanted, cancel the IMF treaty, NOT Obama.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

Yes, he did because Putin owns Trump.

'That was Obama saying he was acting tough before the election'.
So that's why Obama said he could be flexible?
Is that Trump talk resembling 'tough'?

'he'dkiss Putin's butt after he was re-elected'.
Sure, that's why it was Trump who did exactly what Putin wanted, cancel the IMF treaty, NOT Obama.

Putin owns Trump, that's why Trump resisted the building of Nord Stream 2?
Obama was tough with Putin, that's why he pulled US missiles out of the Czech Republic and Poland? DURR.

Why do you feel Putin wanted Trump to withdraw from the IMF Treaty? Link?

Or did you pull that claim out of your ass, like so many others?

 

[Mushroom]

The iron dome is NOT the US Star wars boondoggle that Reagan started.

Actually, do you know what "Star Wars" really was?

One of the largest "smoke screen" R&D programs in history. It quite literally suckered the Soviets into sinking billions into LASER weapons, because that is what all the pretty videos and the derisive name made people think it was. Meanwhile, the US really sunk their R&D into kinetic kill weapons, GPS, and new generations of software and computers to track objects in flight.

You say "Boondoggle", yet the program was still in an early "Alpha Test" phase in the Gulf War when the US showed it could indeed track and hit another missile in flight. Oh, it did not have the missiles to actually do it yet, but it could hit them.

And after that came the first of the missiles to do just that. Kinetic Kill missiles, like the later PATRIOT (specifically the PAC-3), and GBI and SM-3.

 

[Uncensored2008]

Actually, do you know what "Star Wars" really was?

One of the largest "smoke screen" R&D programs in history. It quite literally suckered the Soviets into sinking billions into LASER weapons, because that is what all the pretty videos and the derisive name made people think it was. Meanwhile, the US really sunk their R&D into kinetic kill weapons, GPS, and new generations of software and computers to track objects in flight.

You say "Boondoggle", yet the program was still in an early "Alpha Test" phase in the Gulf War when the US showed it could indeed track and hit another missile in flight. Oh, it did not have the missiles to actually do it yet, but it could hit them.

And after that came the first of the missiles to do just that. Kinetic Kill missiles, like the later PATRIOT (specifically the PAC-3), and GBI and SM-3.

And let's remember, the actual high frontier - as opposed to the lies from the democrat vermin, works perfectly.

We use the missile shield to this day.

 

[Turtlesoup]

Exactly

$2.5T spread over 10 years is not nearly that scary.

Remember how "scary" the $1T ACA was supposed to be?

Turned out...not so much

Hun, they always lie about the actually costs---3.5T would never mean 2.5 T. 3.5 trillions mens 7 TRILLION that we don't have and would have to borrow which creates borrowing costs-----it would never get paid off and in 40 years your grandchildren would still be paying it back with interest.

 

[Lesh]

Hun, they always lie about the actually costs---3.5T would never mean 2.5 T. 3.5 trillions mens 7 TRILLION that we don't have and would have to borrow which creates borrowing costs-----it would never get paid off and in 40 years your grandchildren would still be paying it back with interest.

Dumfuk. The debt NEVER gets paid off. We still carry ALL the debt from WWII. It becomes negligible because inflation eats away at it.

All we ever pay is the interest and that is totally manageable

 

[Uncensored2008]

Dumfuk. The debt NEVER gets paid off. We still carry ALL the debt from WWII. It becomes negligible because inflation eats away at it.

All we ever pay is the interest and that is totally manageable

Inflation - stripping the wealth of the middle class, what you fascist/Marxists call the "bourgeoisie"

The middle class are your enemy and your do anything to destroy them so that your dream society of 1% ruling over impoverished masses comes about.

Vote democrat, be a slave.

 

[Smokin' OP]

Actually, do you know what "Star Wars" really was?

YES, a clusterfuck, created by a clusterfuck.

One of the largest "smoke screen" R&D programs in history.

BS.
A "smokescreen" that so, far has cost the US, between $300 billion to $400 billion?

It quite literally suckered the Soviets into sinking billions into LASER weapons,

It's quite literally, BS.
The Soviets did no such thing.
However, Reagan suckered the US into spending $300 billion into a boondoggle that never even had one test.

They claim to have laser weapon technology, just like the US does, Russia didn't even start R&D until 2017.
30 years later?

because that is what all the pretty videos and the derisive name made people think it was. Meanwhile, the US really sunk their R&D into kinetic kill weapons,

There are no kinetic energy kill weapons.
The closest is what the Cubans and China used against US diplomats, directed microwave energy.

GPS, and new generations of software and computers to track objects in flight.

They have had that since the 50's, the early stages of the space programs by the Soviets and the US.
GPS was started in 1973 by the DOD, they launched their first GPS first satellite in 1978.
Two years before the idiot took office.

The next generation of GPS Block IIIA satellites and Next Generation Operational Control System (OCX) were implemented by Clinton in 1998.
Ten years after the idiot left office.

You say "Boondoggle", yet the program was still in an early "Alpha Test" phase in the Gulf War when the US showed it could indeed track and hit another missile in flight. Oh, it did not have the missiles to actually do it yet, but it could hit them.

"Alfa test phase"?

1957. US begins work on its first major missile defense effort, the Nike-Zeus system.

1962. After technology flaws doom the Nike-Zeus project, the US begins work on the Nike X missile defense program, which uses nuclear-tipped interceptors.

September 1967. President Johnson announces plans to deploy the Sentinel missile defense system (a successor to the Nike X program).

February 1991. During the Persian Gulf War, the US Patriot missile attempts to intercept Iraqi Scud attacks. Despite initial glowing reports from the Pentagon, a study by the General Accounting Office shows that only 9 percent of intercept attempts were reliably successful.

And after that came the first of the missiles to do just that. Kinetic Kill missiles, like the later PATRIOT (specifically the PAC-3), and GBI and SM-3.

Really?

Their description doesn't look 'kinetic" to me.

 

[Uncensored2008]

YES, a clusterfuck, created by a clusterfuck.

BS.
A "smokescreen" that so, far has cost the US, between $300 billion to $400 billion?

It's quite literally, BS.
The Soviets did no such thing.
However, Reagan suckered the US into spending $300 billion into a boondoggle that never even had one test.

They claim to have laser weapon technology, just like the US does, Russia didn't even start R&D until 2017.
30 years later?

There are no kinetic energy kill weapons.
The closest is what the Cubans and China used against US diplomats, directed microwave energy.

They have had that since the 50's, the early stages of the space programs by the Soviets and the US.
GPS was started in 1973 by the DOD, they launched their first GPS first satellite in 1978.
Two years before the idiot took office.

The next generation of GPS Block IIIA satellites and Next Generation Operational Control System (OCX) were implemented by Clinton in 1998.
Ten years after the idiot left office.


"Alfa test phase"?

1957. US begins work on its first major missile defense effort, the Nike-Zeus system.

1962. After technology flaws doom the Nike-Zeus project, the US begins work on the Nike X missile defense program, which uses nuclear-tipped interceptors.

September 1967. President Johnson announces plans to deploy the Sentinel missile defense system (a successor to the Nike X program).

February 1991. During the Persian Gulf War, the US Patriot missile attempts to intercept Iraqi Scud attacks. Despite initial glowing reports from the Pentagon, a study by the General Accounting Office shows that only 9 percent of intercept attempts were reliably successful.

Really?

View attachment 597237

Their description doesn't look 'kinetic" to me.

Oh look, the Nazi traitor is lying again.

Amusing how you attack - dishonestly of course - Patriot, when it has nothing at all to do with SDI.

But, you're a scumbag traitor and a pathological liar, so that fits.

{On March 23, 1983, President Reagan announced the SDI program in a television address broadcast nationally. “What if free people could live secure in the knowledge that their security did not rest upon the threat of instant U.S. retaliation to deter a Soviet attack, that we could intercept and destroy strategic ballistic missiles before they reached our own soil or that of our allies?” he said. “I call upon the scientific community in our country, those who gave us nuclear weapons, to turn their great talents now to the cause of mankind and world peace, to give us the means of rendering these nuclear weapons impotent and obsolete.”}

Now I'm sure you were still stealing candy as you buddies distracted the shop keeper at the time.

But this was a HUGE blow to your Reich - this was death to your beloved USSR.

Remember, at the time the democrats were a 5th column for the Soviets, you hadn't aligned with China yet.

But of course SDI works beautifully, and is in place to this day. Quid Pro and his CCP bosses have never even suggested removing our effective missile defense. Partially because China just bought our corrupt rulers rather than depending on nukes the way your beloved Soviets did.

Missile Defense: From Reagan's Vision to Today's Imperative

One day a madman could come along and make the missiles and blackmail all of us. — Ronald Reagan, to Mikhail Gorbachev, 1985 No doubt, President Reagan would have agreed with the Jack Ryan's, the hero of Tom Clancy's novels, mentor in th...

www.americanthinker.com

 

[Not a Monkeys Uncle]

$3.5T Not As Big As You Might Think

This is the kind of retarded ignorant stupidity that is destroying America . . .which, by the way, is exactly what the Marxists running the democrat party are trying to do

 

[Uncensored2008]

YES, a clusterfuck, created by a clusterfuck.

BS.
A "smokescreen" that so, far has cost the US, between $300 billion to $400 billion?

It's quite literally, BS.
The Soviets did no such thing.
However, Reagan suckered the US into spending $300 billion into a boondoggle that never even had one test.

They claim to have laser weapon technology, just like the US does, Russia didn't even start R&D until 2017.
30 years later?

There are no kinetic energy kill weapons.
The closest is what the Cubans and China used against US diplomats, directed microwave energy.

They have had that since the 50's, the early stages of the space programs by the Soviets and the US.
GPS was started in 1973 by the DOD, they launched their first GPS first satellite in 1978.
Two years before the idiot took office.

The next generation of GPS Block IIIA satellites and Next Generation Operational Control System (OCX) were implemented by Clinton in 1998.
Ten years after the idiot left office.


"Alfa test phase"?

1957. US begins work on its first major missile defense effort, the Nike-Zeus system.

1962. After technology flaws doom the Nike-Zeus project, the US begins work on the Nike X missile defense program, which uses nuclear-tipped interceptors.

September 1967. President Johnson announces plans to deploy the Sentinel missile defense system (a successor to the Nike X program).

February 1991. During the Persian Gulf War, the US Patriot missile attempts to intercept Iraqi Scud attacks. Despite initial glowing reports from the Pentagon, a study by the General Accounting Office shows that only 9 percent of intercept attempts were reliably successful.

Really?

View attachment 597237

Their description doesn't look 'kinetic" to me.

Now let's tear your lies about Patriot apart.

{During the Gulf War the Patriot was first used in combat and was regarded as a successful anti-ballistic missile system. Several batteries of the Patriot were deployed in Saudi Arabia and Israel. These were used to protect cities and strategic targets against Iraqi ballistic missiles. Iraq launched a total of 83 ballistic missiles. Patriot missiles destroyed 45 of these ballistic missiles. A total of 150 Patriot missiles were launched against them.}

Patriot PAC-2 Long-Range Air Defense and Anti-Ballistic Missile System

The Patriot PAC-2 (Patriot Advanced Capability) upgrade was developed in the late 1980s. During the Gulf War the PAC-2 was first used in combat and was regarded as a successful anti-ballistic missile system.

www.military-today.com

What? That's so different than the fucking lie you told, traitor?

Oh, I know - you're a traitor looking for the destruction of this land you hate. But mostly you're just using numbers to lie - or rather the CCP hate site you use is.

See, Patriot uses clusters. 3 Patriot ABM's track a single ballistic missile. Being a lying traitor fuck, you posted CCP propaganda saying "only a third hit."

But, you're a liar and a traitor for the CCP.

And that's PAC-2, which is still demanded by nations across the glob. Why is the CCP traitor fuck? Why do nations world wide clamor for technology that you lie doesn't work? Why does Saudi Arabia spend a trillion dollars on something you lied failed?

Oh, because you're a fucking liar who is promoting the CCP.

And that's PAC-2 CCP bitch. America uses PAC-3, the 3rd generation that is vastly more effective - as your allies in Iran found out when they attacked out Navy while the last legitimate president was in office.

 

[Mushroom]

There are no kinetic energy kill weapons.

Ever hear of SM-2, SM-3, PATRIOT, and GBI?

All kinetic kill weapons.

And the rest of your post is pretty much ignored. It literally is nothing but you shaking your head and saying "Wrong", without any reason other than you think it is wrong.

But to give an example, the Nike program was never really an effective ABM system. The capability was not there yet to hit any kind of ballistic missile. As you yourself stated, it worked by detonating a nuclear warhead nearby in the hopes that would take it out. That is absolutely nothing like what we use today.

And yes, the intercept rate for PATRIOT in the Gulf War was actually high. The problem was that the missile itself was designed to attack aircraft, not missiles. An aircraft is actually a rather "soft target", and were downed because the missile used a proximity fuse which essentially hit it with a shotgun blast, severing control surfaces, fuel and hydraulic lines, and the like. Which is not the case in a ballistic missile.

But that pretty picture and your statement tells me that you have absolutely no idea what a "kinetic kill" weapon actually is. Tell me, do you know what a kinetic kill weapon is? Because like the PAC-3 before it, the PAC-3-MSE is indeed kinetic kill. Alto the newer munitions (like the GEM series) have largely eliminated the "Proximity fuse" and moved to a high speed contact fuse. Not as good as a kinetic kill weapon against hardened targets like a ballistic missile, but still highly effective against air-breather threats like aircraft and cruise missiles.

Tell you what, if you want to actually discuss the issue like an adult, we can do that. If all you are going to do is act like a 4 year old child and shake your head going "Nope!", then there really is nothing to talk about.

Especially as you actually showed an illustration of a kinetic kill weapon, then said it did not look like one. That alone screams that you do not have a frigging clue what you are even talking about.

 

[Mushroom]

Amusing how you attack - dishonestly of course - Patriot, when it has nothing at all to do with SDI.

Yes, and no.

To begin with, most do not even know that the PATRIOT was the end result of a Kennedy era program.

But SDI was never intended to build a "Space weapon", it was to build a newer generation of weapons. It was known even then that it was a decades long program.

In 1990, the first missile to missile intercept software was being tested at White Sands. They had gotten it to about 50% intercept rates, and only had the most basic of designs for the new missiles on paper. But with Iraq invading Kuwait, the decision was made to rush the prototype software into service, as it literally was just a software update to the already existing system. No complex or expensive hardware needed to be bought.

And what was even known then was the the software worked as promised. And as expected, the 15 year old missile designed to shoot down aircraft was not up to the challenge. It took a few more years to develop newer missiles, and they also gave the system a major redesign, releasing the PAC-3 which had 4 times the missiles.

But PATRIOT was the testbed to prove that a mobile launcher could indeed perform a kinetic kill on an inbound ballistic missile. And since then many other systems have been developed to do that. GBI, SM-2, SM-3, and THAAD. But that is all "Star Wars Tech".

 

[Mushroom]

Really?

View attachment 597237

Their description doesn't look 'kinetic" to me.

And I had to bring this up one more time, because it is so damned funny. And is absolute proof that you do not even know what you are talking about.

Tell us then, what is a "Kinetic Kill" weapon? What in that description says it is not kinetic kill?

Well, a kinetic kill in the most simple terms uses kinetic energy to destroy the target, as opposed to an explosive. Tell me, where in that pretty picture does it talk about the fuse or warhead inside that PAC-3 MSE missile?

Gee, funny. It does not. Because there is none. The entire PAC-3 line is only kinetic kill. There is no warhead at all in any of that series of missile.

In fact, I bet you know so little about this that you can not even identify a PAC-3 system if it was right in front of you.

So tell me Mr Expert, which of the following is PAC-2, and which is PAC-3?

 

[Smokin' OP]

Now let's tear your lies about Patriot apart.

{During the Gulf War the Patriot was first used in combat and was regarded as a successful anti-ballistic missile system. Several batteries of the Patriot were deployed in Saudi Arabia and Israel. These were used to protect cities and strategic targets against Iraqi ballistic missiles. Iraq launched a total of 83 ballistic missiles. Patriot missiles destroyed 45 of these ballistic missiles. A total of 150 Patriot missiles were launched against them.}

Patriot PAC-2 Long-Range Air Defense and Anti-Ballistic Missile System

The Patriot PAC-2 (Patriot Advanced Capability) upgrade was developed in the late 1980s. During the Gulf War the PAC-2 was first used in combat and was regarded as a successful anti-ballistic missile system.

www.military-today.com

What? That's so different than the fucking lie you told, traitor?

The war, you moron.
One was in 1.
One was 2003.

Oh, I know - you're a traitor looking for the destruction of this land you hate. But mostly you're just using numbers to lie - or rather the CCP hate site you use is.

See, Patriot uses clusters. 3 Patriot ABM's track a single ballistic missile. Being a lying traitor fuck, you posted CCP propaganda saying "only a third hit."

But, you're a liar and a traitor for the CCP

Sure nut job, you're STILL confused.

And that's PAC-2, which is still demanded by nations across the glob. Why is the CCP traitor fuck? Why do nations world wide clamor for technology that you lie doesn't work? Why does Saudi Arabia spend a trillion dollars on something you lied failed?

Oh, because you're a fucking liar who is promoting the CCP.

And that's PAC-2 CCP bitch. America uses PAC-3, the 3rd generation that is vastly more effective - as your allies in Iran found out when they attacked out Navy while the last legitimate president was in office.

So much bluster, so little facts.
That's the way it is in Trumplandia.

 

[Uncensored2008]

Yes, and no.

To begin with, most do not even know that the PATRIOT was the end result of a Kennedy era program.

But SFI was never intended to build a "Space weapon", it was to build a newer generation of weapons. It was known even then that it was a decades long program.

In 1990, the first missile to missile intercept software was being tested at White Sands. They had gotten it to about 50% intercept rates, and only had the most basic of designs for the new missiles on paper. But with Iraq invading Kuwait, the decision was made to rush the prototype software into service, as it literally was just a software update to the already existing system. No complex or expensive hardware needed to be bought.

And what was even known then was the the software worked as promised. And as expected, the 15 year old missile designed to shoot down aircraft was not up to the challenge. It took a few more years to develop newer missiles, and they also gave the system a major redesign, releasing the PAC-3 which had 4 times the missiles.

But PATRIOT was the testbed to prove that a mobile launcher could indeed perform a kinetic kill on an inbound ballistic missile. And since then many other systems have been developed to do that. GBI, SM-2, SM-3, and THAAD. But that is all "Star Wars Tech".

As you said, patriot is the culmination of battlefield or mobile missile defense that goes back to WWII.

PAC-3 is theoretically untested - but the gulf attacks in 2019 by Iran were unquestionably met by PAC-3

Good post.

 

[Mushroom]

{During the Gulf War the Patriot was first used in combat and was regarded as a successful anti-ballistic missile system. Several batteries of the Patriot were deployed in Saudi Arabia and Israel. These were used to protect cities and strategic targets against Iraqi ballistic missiles. Iraq launched a total of 83 ballistic missiles. Patriot missiles destroyed 45 of these ballistic missiles. A total of 150 Patriot missiles were launched against them.}

Oh, it gets even more confusing than that for those that do not understand the system.

An absolutely perfect hit rate for PATRIOT is only 50%. That is because for every inbound target, at least 2 missiles are fired. So even if the first missile is a hard kill, you still fired 2 missiles at a single target, 50%.

But even more telling is in 2003. Now not much was talked about by then, as the closest to PATRIOT that most ever heard about during that engagement was Jessica Lynch and her unit.

But PATRIOT was very much involved, and the system was refined even more by then. Even though Iraq claimed they did not have any ballistic missiles, they still managed to fire 23 of them at US forces. Of those 23 missiles, 14 were aimed at empty desert so were ignored. And yes, the software in the mobile launchers had improved to the point where they could predict the impact point to within a CEP of 100 meters with the missile in flight. Something not possible a decade earlier.

Of the 9 missiles remaining that were to hit a location that actually had something in it, it was a 100% kill rate. Not hit rate like in 1990-1991, a 100% kill rate. Not a single missile detonated that was targeted by PATRIOT.

To be accurate, your first statement that it "destroyed" 45 missiles is almost true. The number of "impacts" was high. We know that the missile was within a foot or so of the SCUD because the proximity fuse went off. If they had not arrived within 12-18 inches of the target there would have been no explosion at all. There are tons of videos of this happening, the "pretty explosions in the air" would not have happened if this had not been the case. But with a warhead designed to shoot down fighters and bombers, it just was not up to the challenge of destroying a ballistic missile.

And the system is still being upgraded even today. There is almost constantly a unit in the desert at White Sands, in the exact same place it was developed during the Johnson and Nixon administrations updating it further. Which to be honest today is really hard to do, because it really is a 40+ year old system and there is not much more they can do because so much of the technology in it is seriously antiquated.

 

[Mushroom]

The war, you moron.
One was in 1.
One was 2003.

Uh, he is talking about 1990-1991. Nowhere in that statement did he discuss 2003 at all.

 

[Mushroom]

PAC-3 is theoretically untested - but the gulf attacks in 2019 by Iran were unquestionably met by PAC-3

Oh no, it was indeed tested.

As of March 27, U.S. Central Command (CENTCOM) reported that Patriot interceptors, some specifically PAC-3s, have destroyed eight Iraqi missiles since the start of the conflict. CENTCOM did not respond to questions on exactly how many Patriot interceptors have been fired, which specific Patriot systems were involved in the intercepts, and the total number and type of Iraqi missiles launched at Kuwait and U.S.-led forces.

Pentagon Claims PAC-3 Success Against Iraqi Missiles | Arms Control Association

www.armscontrol.org

True fact, at least as of a few years ago the very first PAC-3 launcher to hit an Iraqi SCUD was located in the 1-43 ADA motor pool at Fort Bliss, and was one of the assets of Delta Battery. I know this for a fact because it actually was "my" launcher. And they had put a nice plaque inside of the driver side control panel to state this.

They knew even before 2003 that it was a good system, as the intercepts at White Sands were successful in 1999-2002. And was proven even more so in 2003 when they were finally used in combat. But as far as the number of missiles fired, I can answer that. It was 16 missiles. As I said earlier, they fire 2 missiles for every inbound threat, this is SOP.

 

[Mushroom]

ee, Patriot uses clusters. 3 Patriot ABM's track a single ballistic missile. Being a lying traitor fuck, you posted CCP propaganda saying "only a third hit."

And correction once again.

Not 3, the actual number is 6 launchers.

PATRIOT operates in batteries of 6 launchers (which in turn operate in a Battalion of 4 batteries). In each one there are 5 PAC-2 launchers, and a single PAC-3 launcher. For a total of 36 missiles. The entire battery is linked together, and the operators can fire from any of those 6 launchers on command. And they can track hundreds of inbound targets at once. Even allocating the same launcher to target multiple inbounds.

In reality, the RADAR that it uses was closely related to the same system that the AEGIS class cruisers and destroyers use. And the systems were actually tested together when they were developed, the one in the AN/MPQ-53 RADAR set is simply smaller.