2020 and the National Debt

[sparky]

I've heard a little talk around here from time to time about the National Debt with each side blaming the other side for the size of it. I just checked the amount of the debt, and it's going up a million dollars in the time that I was there, and considering that was a few minutes ago. The National Debt as of 12/29/2019 is $23,160,651,000,000.00 as of CST 8:44 pm.

U.S. National Debt Clock : Real Time

How important do you think the National Debt is going to be in the election of 2020? Is that too much money right now? Please add your thoughts below. Voting on this poll ends in 45 days. Thank you.

In order for the National Debt to become important, the American people are gonna have to elect conservatives, instead of republicans. When it comes to spending, republicans are just democrats with an R label.
Conservatism is the new libertarianism. Libertarians are deemed "loony" by the right and the left. The RNC and the DNC have rules against electing conservatives.

Thomas Massie & Justin Amash, IMO are the only true conservatives left in DC. Rand Paul used to be. His voting record is still pretty conservative.

This one only got like 21 NO votes. Rand was one of them.

HR 1865 - Further Consolidated Appropriations Act, 2020 - National Key Vote

hadda look it up>
Further Consolidated Appropriations Act of 2020—A summary and view from SS&C Retirement Solutions

they're keeping the GubMit from shutting down, by paying themselves first???

~S~

 

[kyzr]

I've heard a little talk around here from time to time about the National Debt with each side blaming the other side for the size of it. I just checked the amount of the debt, and it's going up a million dollars in the time that I was there, and considering that was a few minutes ago. The National Debt as of 12/29/2019 is $23,160,651,000,000.00 as of CST 8:44 pm.

U.S. National Debt Clock : Real Time

How important do you think the National Debt is going to be in the election of 2020? Is that too much money right now? Please add your thoughts below. Voting on this poll ends in 45 days. Thank you.

In order for the National Debt to become important, the American people are gonna have to elect conservatives, instead of republicans. When it comes to spending, republicans are just democrats with an R label.
Conservatism is the new libertarian-ism. Libertarians are deemed "loony" by the right and the left. The RNC and the DNC have rules against electing conservatives.

Thomas Massie & Justin Amash, IMO are the only true conservatives left in DC. Rand Paul used to be. His voting record is still pretty conservative.

This one only got like 21 NO votes. Rand was one of them.

HR 1865 - Further Consolidated Appropriations Act, 2020 - National Key Vote

Bullshit "conservatives" would do anything about the $23T Debt if elected.
No matter who you elect they always vote to keep the party going and put it on the credit card.
If anyone touches the "3rd rail" they get bounced out.
I don't know how it ends, but about 2025 or so the chickens will come home to roost, Medicare will be bankrupt, with Social Security going out in 2037. Then what? The US dollar becomes worthless like Venezuela?

 

[sparky]

IINM, this is the bill that eliminated the debt ceiling for 2 years.

HR 3877 - Bipartisan Budget Act of 2019 - National Key Vote
67 to 28

Vote to pass a bill that establishes discretionary spending limits

limits.....?

~S~

 

[beautress]

China is growing old without getting Rich. China will track with what happened to Japan despite fewer birth restrictions in Japan and greater wealth. China has a bigger crash coming than has been seen by anyone younger than @ 100 years

<gulp> I hope they work hard to resolve their issues, and wise enough to learn what Japan knows. I think it may have to do with producing and selling quality goods at a price the country they are making the goods wants. Because consumers here are not stupid. If they buy a clock that goes bad after 4 months, they might get miffed if it does not compete in quality with a $1500 Swiss clock that keeps time for a lifetime but may be handed down for several generations to survivors in the family. Mr. Avg. Joe American thinks he should have what Mr. Big has, because our Constitution sez we are equal. When that doesn't happen, Mr. Avg. Joe USA can and will walk away from whoever gypped him or her, letting his or her friends know about it, which decreases sales from the offending dummy who produced landfill instead of a good product Mr. Avg. Joe can give to his daughter in his old age.

And if he ever had a class in consumer interests, he will go on steroids letting other people know how crummy such-and-such a seller is.

For that reason, if they were to ask, I'd tell the Chinese to quit using exterior plastics that crumble less than 2 years after their landfill product is sold. Charge the nickel more it costs so that the *#&^%$ clock exterior lasts 20 years, and quit using tinfoil for the hands that tell hours and minutes. And have them place into the clock batteries that last 5 years, because whoever is making batteries, the clock dies in the time the worse and worse batteries that cost more and more money ain't doin' it.

 

[beautress]

Jackson asked who we owed the money to, and I wonder if it was just a matter of printing more money to float around, or if debt was actually owned by banks or foreigners, which might make a difference if it is.

To pay for deficit spending the Treasury borrows currency by issuing a bond. A bond is an IOU. It's a piece of paper with numbers printed on it that says loan me a trillion dollars today and I promise that over a ten year period I will pay you back that trillion dollars. Plus interest.

But...Treasury bonds happen to be our national debt. The Treasury then holds a bond auction. And the world's largest banks show up and compete to buy part of our national debt and make a profit on it by earning interest.

Through a shell game called open market operations, the banks get to sell some of those bonds to the Federal Reserve, at a profit. How does the Federal Reserve pay the bonds? The Federal Reserve opens its 'checkbook' and writes bad, bogus, counterfeit checks that should bounce because they're drawn on an account that always has nothing in it. Here the Federal Reserve is committing fraud.

To steal a quote from the Boston Federal Reserve's ''Putting it Simply", they say that ''When you or I write a check, there must be sufficient funds in our account to cover the check, but when the Federal Reserve writes a check, there is no bank deposit on which that check is drawn. When the Federal Reserve writes a check, it is creating money.”

Then we pay tax to the IRS who then turns it over to theTreasury so the Treasury can pay the principal plus the interest on those bonds that were purchased from banks by the Federal Reserve with a check that was drawn on an account that had nothing in it.

Of course, the Federal Reserve is not Federal. It has stock holders. There is no federal agency that has stock holders. Now, what is a stock holder? A share of stock represents a share of ownership in a corporation. So, the stock holders are the owners of the corporation. Therefore, the Federal Reserve is a private corporation with owners. For reference, you may check their site. It specifically states that the stock holders receive an annual dividend of not more than 6%. Now, we know that the stock in the Federal Reserve was originally issued to the largest banks in the United States. With mergers and acquisitions through the years, you can't actually trace who owns the stock in the Federal Reserve. That's a very closely guarded secret. The best guess would be that they are those primary dealers. The banks that get to make a profit by selling part of our national debt, those bonds, to the Federal Reserve who buys them with a check that is drawn from an account with nothing in it. Then we pay tax to pay the principal and the interest on those bonds so that the Federal Reserve can pay the banks not more than a 6% dividend. This is purposely complex.

When I was a lot younger the WSJ used to show two numbers that were apparently very important at the time, those being the money supply numbers, "M1" and "M2". In the last 20 or so years I have not seen M1 or M2 mentioned on CNBC or in print. Why were they so important before, and so irrelevant now?

Reading: Measuring Money: Currency, M1, and M2 | Macroeconomics

Thank you for the link, kyzr, because I did not know what M1 and M2 meant until I read it on your excellent link. Thank you very kindly.

 

[YoursTruly]

I've heard a little talk around here from time to time about the National Debt with each side blaming the other side for the size of it. I just checked the amount of the debt, and it's going up a million dollars in the time that I was there, and considering that was a few minutes ago. The National Debt as of 12/29/2019 is $23,160,651,000,000.00 as of CST 8:44 pm.

U.S. National Debt Clock : Real Time

How important do you think the National Debt is going to be in the election of 2020? Is that too much money right now? Please add your thoughts below. Voting on this poll ends in 45 days. Thank you.

In order for the National Debt to become important, the American people are gonna have to elect conservatives, instead of republicans. When it comes to spending, republicans are just democrats with an R label.
Conservatism is the new libertarian-ism. Libertarians are deemed "loony" by the right and the left. The RNC and the DNC have rules against electing conservatives.

Thomas Massie & Justin Amash, IMO are the only true conservatives left in DC. Rand Paul used to be. His voting record is still pretty conservative.

This one only got like 21 NO votes. Rand was one of them.

HR 1865 - Further Consolidated Appropriations Act, 2020 - National Key Vote

Bullshit "conservatives" would do anything about the $23T Debt if elected.
No matter who you elect they always vote to keep the party going and put it on the credit card.
If anyone touches the "3rd rail" they get bounced out.
I don't know how it ends, but about 2025 or so the chickens will come home to roost, Medicare will be bankrupt, with Social Security going out in 2037. Then what? The US dollar becomes worthless like Venezuela?

Again, there's a difference between a conservative and a republican. A HUGE difference. You just have to know what a real conservative is. As someone stated there are few actual conservatives left now a days. They've all be thrown under the bus by the GOP.

 

[beautress]

I've heard a little talk around here from time to time about the National Debt with each side blaming the other side for the size of it. I just checked the amount of the debt, and it's going up a million dollars in the time that I was there, and considering that was a few minutes ago. The National Debt as of 12/29/2019 is $23,160,651,000,000.00 as of CST 8:44 pm.

U.S. National Debt Clock : Real Time

How important do you think the National Debt is going to be in the election of 2020? Is that too much money right now? Please add your thoughts below. Voting on this poll ends in 45 days. Thank you.

In order for the National Debt to become important, the American people are gonna have to elect conservatives, instead of republicans. When it comes to spending, republicans are just democrats with an R label.
Conservatism is the new libertarian-ism. Libertarians are deemed "loony" by the right and the left. The RNC and the DNC have rules against electing conservatives.

Thomas Massie & Justin Amash, IMO are the only true conservatives left in DC. Rand Paul used to be. His voting record is still pretty conservative.

This one only got like 21 NO votes. Rand was one of them.

HR 1865 - Further Consolidated Appropriations Act, 2020 - National Key Vote

Bullshit "conservatives" would do anything about the $23T Debt if elected.
No matter who you elect they always vote to keep the party going and put it on the credit card.
If anyone touches the "3rd rail" they get bounced out.
I don't know how it ends, but about 2025 or so the chickens will come home to roost, Medicare will be bankrupt, with Social Security going out in 2037. Then what? The US dollar becomes worthless like Venezuela?

Again, there's a difference between a conservative and a republican. A HUGE difference. You just have to know what a real conservative is. As someone stated there are few actual conservatives left now a days. They've all be thrown under the bus by the GOP.

Would you consider Steve Forbes a Conservative? Because when he put a bid in on the presidency, I was liking what he was saying.

 

[Jackson]

Well. If history is an indicator, those who are concerned with the national debt ought to vote for Democrats. It's a no brainier.

The party that is leaning to Socialism for the answer? Hardly!

 

[LoneLaugher]

Well. If history is an indicator, those who are concerned with the national debt ought to vote for Democrats. It's a no brainier.

The party that is leaning to Socialism for the answer? Hardly!

You've said nothing here, dummy.

Watch this.....

 

[g5000]

Jackson asked who we owed the money to, and I wonder if it was just a matter of printing more money to float around, or if debt was actually owned by banks or foreigners, which might make a difference if it is.

To pay for deficit spending the Treasury borrows currency by issuing a bond. A bond is an IOU. It's a piece of paper with numbers printed on it that says loan me a trillion dollars today and I promise that over a ten year period I will pay you back that trillion dollars. Plus interest.

But...Treasury bonds happen to be our national debt. The Treasury then holds a bond auction. And the world's largest banks show up and compete to buy part of our national debt and make a profit on it by earning interest.

Through a shell game called open market operations, the banks get to sell some of those bonds to the Federal Reserve, at a profit. How does the Federal Reserve pay the bonds? The Federal Reserve opens its 'checkbook' and writes bad, bogus, counterfeit checks that should bounce because they're drawn on an account that always has nothing in it. Here the Federal Reserve is committing fraud.

To steal a quote from the Boston Federal Reserve's ''Putting it Simply", they say that ''When you or I write a check, there must be sufficient funds in our account to cover the check, but when the Federal Reserve writes a check, there is no bank deposit on which that check is drawn. When the Federal Reserve writes a check, it is creating money.”

Then we pay tax to the IRS who then turns it over to theTreasury so the Treasury can pay the principal plus the interest on those bonds that were purchased from banks by the Federal Reserve with a check that was drawn on an account that had nothing in it.

Of course, the Federal Reserve is not Federal. It has stock holders. There is no federal agency that has stock holders. Now, what is a stock holder? A share of stock represents a share of ownership in a corporation. So, the stock holders are the owners of the corporation. Therefore, the Federal Reserve is a private corporation with owners. For reference, you may check their site. It specifically states that the stock holders receive an annual dividend of not more than 6%. Now, we know that the stock in the Federal Reserve was originally issued to the largest banks in the United States. With mergers and acquisitions through the years, you can't actually trace who owns the stock in the Federal Reserve. That's a very closely guarded secret. The best guess would be that they are those primary dealers. The banks that get to make a profit by selling part of our national debt, those bonds, to the Federal Reserve who buys them with a check that is drawn from an account with nothing in it. Then we pay tax to pay the principal and the interest on those bonds so that the Federal Reserve can pay the banks not more than a 6% dividend. This is purposely complex.

You left out some very important facts which I invariably see people who hate the Fed make, which tells me you are all listening to the same manufacturer of bullshit.

First, the money which the Fed creates to buy Treasury bonds is destroyed when the Treasury pays back the money for those bonds. So that money is zeroed out. It is quite deliberate that this fact is never mentioned by End the Fed propagandists, only the money creation part is.

Second, the interest payments the Fed receives on the bonds is returned to the Treasury. So that, too, is zeroed out.

 

[g5000]

Nobody gives a ****. Both sides will just keep blaming the other side and we will keep adding a trillion dollars a year...until we have the next recession and we start adding 3 trillion a year.

You really think our forum good guys who like the idea of balancing the budget would go with your idea that nobody cares? hmmmmm Or that anyone would think it's good if we owe all that money to a foreign country who would like to own the United States of America?

Enquiring minds would like to know.

The people who care about the debt are vastly outnumbered to the point of insignificance.

See my signature for an example of how mentally ill even the pseudocons have become about debt.

 

[g5000]

Hmm. That's three against one so far. Am I at the real USMB Boards?

To whom is the bulk of the national debt to be repaid?

I was hoping one of our fiscal fellows would be showing up to teach us, Billy. In the open market, corporations can buy the accounts receivable, I think. I don't know how it works with the Federals. s.o.s. smart financiers!

About a quarter of the debt is owed to the US government itself. Intragovernmental debt. Some parts of the government run a profit, so to speak, and the government borrows from them. Social Security is the biggest part of the government from which money is borrowed. But they also steal borrow money from the military retirement system and other departments. This is a classic "robbing Peter to pay Paul" situation.

Foreigners hold about a quarter to a third of the debt. Foreign governments, Saudi princes, all kinds of foreign investors and investment funds, etc.

The Fed holds about a tenth of the debt. This can fluctuate considerably.

The American people hold the rest. Your 401(k) fund, college endowment funds, insurance companies, banks, municipal and state governments, pension funds, and kids who get savings bonds from grandma on their birthdays.

 

[Remodeling Maidiac]

It's very important to me but I'm not in DC and have but one vote.

Vote for dems = planned spending
Vote for gop = spending without admitting it.

Screwed either way.

 

[YoursTruly]

Jackson asked who we owed the money to, and I wonder if it was just a matter of printing more money to float around, or if debt was actually owned by banks or foreigners, which might make a difference if it is.

To pay for deficit spending the Treasury borrows currency by issuing a bond. A bond is an IOU. It's a piece of paper with numbers printed on it that says loan me a trillion dollars today and I promise that over a ten year period I will pay you back that trillion dollars. Plus interest.

But...Treasury bonds happen to be our national debt. The Treasury then holds a bond auction. And the world's largest banks show up and compete to buy part of our national debt and make a profit on it by earning interest.

Through a shell game called open market operations, the banks get to sell some of those bonds to the Federal Reserve, at a profit. How does the Federal Reserve pay the bonds? The Federal Reserve opens its 'checkbook' and writes bad, bogus, counterfeit checks that should bounce because they're drawn on an account that always has nothing in it. Here the Federal Reserve is committing fraud.

To steal a quote from the Boston Federal Reserve's ''Putting it Simply", they say that ''When you or I write a check, there must be sufficient funds in our account to cover the check, but when the Federal Reserve writes a check, there is no bank deposit on which that check is drawn. When the Federal Reserve writes a check, it is creating money.”

Then we pay tax to the IRS who then turns it over to theTreasury so the Treasury can pay the principal plus the interest on those bonds that were purchased from banks by the Federal Reserve with a check that was drawn on an account that had nothing in it.

Of course, the Federal Reserve is not Federal. It has stock holders. There is no federal agency that has stock holders. Now, what is a stock holder? A share of stock represents a share of ownership in a corporation. So, the stock holders are the owners of the corporation. Therefore, the Federal Reserve is a private corporation with owners. For reference, you may check their site. It specifically states that the stock holders receive an annual dividend of not more than 6%. Now, we know that the stock in the Federal Reserve was originally issued to the largest banks in the United States. With mergers and acquisitions through the years, you can't actually trace who owns the stock in the Federal Reserve. That's a very closely guarded secret. The best guess would be that they are those primary dealers. The banks that get to make a profit by selling part of our national debt, those bonds, to the Federal Reserve who buys them with a check that is drawn from an account with nothing in it. Then we pay tax to pay the principal and the interest on those bonds so that the Federal Reserve can pay the banks not more than a 6% dividend. This is purposely complex.

If enough people ever figured all this out, they might wonder why the hell we even need money. Considering where/how money is created, (punching a few digits on a computer) it's really not even needed. The concept of an RBE (Resource Based Economy), because of what we're taught growing up, seems like Marxism. People don't understand how a burger flipper could own the same car as a brain surgeon. Don't get me wrong, even for someone who understands how unimportant money actually is, I can see the jealousy it would create. The propaganda would lead people to think that there would be no brain surgeons, if brain surgeons couldn't get more than the burger flipper. But that's what money does. It's how it was designed.
How silly is it, for the human race, top of the food chain, about the only species that has the ability to reason and communicate on such an advance level, can't see why an RBE has 1,000 more benefits, than our monetary system.

If you have a minute, this is a little something I've thought about over the years, that has to do with an RBE:
In south America, there's a man who collects sap from rubber trees. He uses a steal bore to drill into the tree. A plastic bucket to collect it. Puts it on a truck that has steal, plastics, copper, rubber and all sorts of other things to make it go. It's brought to a collection facility, then onto a rubber plant (probably in China or the USA) where rubber is manufactured. It's then shipped to a place where they they make tires. (or what ever else is needed) Then the tires are shipped to a warehouse, then onto the retail store where they're installed on your car.
Now, think about all the things (buckets, bores, ships, planes, buildings, workers, staff, paper, computers etc etc) that goes into all that. Especially the people. Take the bucket for example. Made from some sort of poly. Which takes oil drillers to extract. And all the things that were built by even more people just to drill for the oil.
Hundreds of millions of people went in to just getting the sap from the tree. Hundreds of millions more to get the sap from the rubber tree to your car.
The point is, I suppose, is that in some form or fashion, we all need each other. Either directly or indirectly. The question is, why to we still charge each other. It's my opinion, that money is just the middle man.

It took me a couple of years of asking myself, "What is the down side to an RBE," and then solving the problems that an RBE would create.
One of the biggest ones was "Why would anyone work, if there was no money?" Once it clicks in your head, the answers start coming easy. And at the end of the day, as I said before, the pro's outweigh the con's, 1000 fold.

Note to add: The answer to the question about can be found by understanding one thing: Money doesn't buy anything. Our labor does. We exchange our labor for money. Because there has to be a monetary profit involved, then we and those who employ us have to have some agreement as to how much our labor is worth. And so, with an EVC (Employment Verification Card (that proves we're employed), no one can decide for us, what our labor is worth.

 

[Cellblock2429]

It will get some minor lip service but everyone knows that neither party would ever take the steps needed to deal with in a serious way because the voters would never elect someone who would do the things necessary. Everyone wants a simple easy painless solution to the national debt there isn't one.

/——-/

It will get some minor lip service but everyone knows that neither party would ever take the steps needed to deal with in a serious way because the voters would never elect someone who would do the things necessary. Everyone wants a simple easy painless solution to the national debt there isn't one.

/——/ Here’s a simple solution: Hannity: Cut 1 Penny From Every Dollar of Federal Spending for 5 Years

 

[NightFox]

Jackson asked who we owed the money to, and I wonder if it was just a matter of printing more money to float around, or if debt was actually owned by banks or foreigners, which might make a difference if it is.

To pay for deficit spending the Treasury borrows currency by issuing a bond. A bond is an IOU. It's a piece of paper with numbers printed on it that says loan me a trillion dollars today and I promise that over a ten year period I will pay you back that trillion dollars. Plus interest.

But...Treasury bonds happen to be our national debt. The Treasury then holds a bond auction. And the world's largest banks show up and compete to buy part of our national debt and make a profit on it by earning interest.

Through a shell game called open market operations, the banks get to sell some of those bonds to the Federal Reserve, at a profit. How does the Federal Reserve pay the bonds? The Federal Reserve opens its 'checkbook' and writes bad, bogus, counterfeit checks that should bounce because they're drawn on an account that always has nothing in it. Here the Federal Reserve is committing fraud.

To steal a quote from the Boston Federal Reserve's ''Putting it Simply", they say that ''When you or I write a check, there must be sufficient funds in our account to cover the check, but when the Federal Reserve writes a check, there is no bank deposit on which that check is drawn. When the Federal Reserve writes a check, it is creating money.”

Then we pay tax to the IRS who then turns it over to theTreasury so the Treasury can pay the principal plus the interest on those bonds that were purchased from banks by the Federal Reserve with a check that was drawn on an account that had nothing in it.

Of course, the Federal Reserve is not Federal. It has stock holders. There is no federal agency that has stock holders. Now, what is a stock holder? A share of stock represents a share of ownership in a corporation. So, the stock holders are the owners of the corporation. Therefore, the Federal Reserve is a private corporation with owners. For reference, you may check their site. It specifically states that the stock holders receive an annual dividend of not more than 6%. Now, we know that the stock in the Federal Reserve was originally issued to the largest banks in the United States. With mergers and acquisitions through the years, you can't actually trace who owns the stock in the Federal Reserve. That's a very closely guarded secret. The best guess would be that they are those primary dealers. The banks that get to make a profit by selling part of our national debt, those bonds, to the Federal Reserve who buys them with a check that is drawn from an account with nothing in it. Then we pay tax to pay the principal and the interest on those bonds so that the Federal Reserve can pay the banks not more than a 6% dividend. This is purposely complex.

You left out some very important facts which I invariably see people who hate the Fed make, which tells me you are all listening to the same manufacturer of bullshit.

First, the money which the Fed created to buy Treasury bonds is destroyed when the Treasury pays back the money for those bonds. So that is zeroed out. It is quite deliberate that this fact is never mentioned by End the Fed propagandists, only the money creation part is.

Second, the interest payments the Fed receives on the bonds is returned to the Treasury. So that, too, is zeroed out.

Uh-huh, that's great except for the fact that the debt is continuously rolled over and increased because the Federal Government needs to borrow in order to cover not only it's ever increasing operating deficit but also to cover debt service costs for outstanding debt, so the reality is that there is no "zeroing out" net effect.

And while yes the Federal Reserve does indeed rebate any interest earned on Treasury debt back to the Treasury, everybody else that buys those bonds and earns interest on them DOESN'T so it's not "zeroed" and it ends up as net increase in the money supply requiring the Fed to intensify OMO and other money supply manipulation efforts to stabilize the value of the currency.

Our currency is based on debt a fact that is never mentioned by Federal Reserve Fiat Currency Apologists.

 

[kyzr]

I've heard a little talk around here from time to time about the National Debt with each side blaming the other side for the size of it. I just checked the amount of the debt, and it's going up a million dollars in the time that I was there, and considering that was a few minutes ago. The National Debt as of 12/29/2019 is $23,160,651,000,000.00 as of CST 8:44 pm.

U.S. National Debt Clock : Real Time

How important do you think the National Debt is going to be in the election of 2020? Is that too much money right now? Please add your thoughts below. Voting on this poll ends in 45 days. Thank you.

In order for the National Debt to become important, the American people are gonna have to elect conservatives, instead of republicans. When it comes to spending, republicans are just democrats with an R label.
Conservatism is the new libertarian-ism. Libertarians are deemed "loony" by the right and the left. The RNC and the DNC have rules against electing conservatives.

Thomas Massie & Justin Amash, IMO are the only true conservatives left in DC. Rand Paul used to be. His voting record is still pretty conservative.

This one only got like 21 NO votes. Rand was one of them.

HR 1865 - Further Consolidated Appropriations Act, 2020 - National Key Vote

Bullshit "conservatives" would do anything about the $23T Debt if elected.
No matter who you elect they always vote to keep the party going and put it on the credit card.
If anyone touches the "3rd rail" they get bounced out.
I don't know how it ends, but about 2025 or so the chickens will come home to roost, Medicare will be bankrupt, with Social Security going out in 2037. Then what? The US dollar becomes worthless like Venezuela?

Again, there's a difference between a conservative and a republican. A HUGE difference. You just have to know what a real conservative is. As someone stated there are few actual conservatives left now a days. They've all be thrown under the bus by the GOP.

A "real conservative" does nothing but cut taxes for the wealthy to "grow the economy", which never works and only succeeds in growing the $23T Debt.
If you know a "true conservative" that you's support as president, please tell me who he is and what his plans are to address the Debt. Here is my plan to address the Debt, they would all be screaming like stuck pigs:
1. The democrats would say the VAT, 3% sales tax hits the poor and middle class
2. The GOP would say the tax increase kills job creation and hurt businesses

A. Hire another "Grace Commission" to audit and fix the Federal budget deficit

B. Cut Spending: [CUT $625b a year]
1. Cut defense to 2017 levels of $600b until the Debt is reduced, saving $150b
2. Cut foreign aid $55b (until Debt is paid we can't borrow to give money away)
3. Cut Welfare $200b & Medicaid $200b (about half)
4. Cut education $20b (state responsibility)

C. To cover the $900b budget deficit the following taxes need to be raised:
1. Raise the top tax rate about 7% above 2016 levels +$400b
2. Implement a new 3% Fed sales tax +$400b
3. Implement a new transaction tax on all stocks & bonds Impose a Tax on Financial Transactions | Congressional Budget Office +$100b
4. Implement a new remittances tax/fee on all money sent out of the US https://www.americanthinker.com/articles/2018/05/tax_remittances_can_build_the_wall.html 2% of $140b is +$3b a year

D. Reform entitlements, Medicare & Social Security, currently projected to be insolvent:

 

[YoursTruly]

Would you consider Steve Forbes a Conservative? Because when he put a bid in on the presidency, I was liking what he was saying.

I don't know enough about him to say.

 

[LoneLaugher]

Would you consider Steve Forbes a Conservative? Because when he put a bid in on the presidency, I was liking what he was saying.

I don't know enough about him to say.

I'll help you. He is an idiot.

 

[YoursTruly]

A "real conservative" does nothing but cut taxes for the wealthy to "grow the economy", which never works and only succeeds in growing the $23T Debt.
If you know a "true conservative" that you's support as president, please tell me who he is and what his plans are to address the Debt. Here is my plan to address the Debt, they would all be screaming like stuck pigs:
1. The democrats would say the VAT, 3% sales tax hits the poor and middle class
2. The GOP would say the tax increase kills job creation and hurt businesses

A. Hire another "Grace Commission" to audit and fix the Federal budget deficit

B. Cut Spending: [CUT $625b a year]
1. Cut defense to 2017 levels of $600b until the Debt is reduced, saving $150b
2. Cut foreign aid $55b (until Debt is paid we can't borrow to give money away)
3. Cut Welfare $200b & Medicaid $200b (about half)
4. Cut education $20b (state responsibility)

C. To cover the $900b budget deficit the following taxes need to be raised:
1. Raise the top tax rate about 7% above 2016 levels +$400b
2. Implement a new 3% Fed sales tax +$400b
3. Implement a new transaction tax on all stocks & bonds Impose a Tax on Financial Transactions | Congressional Budget Office +$100b
4. Implement a new remittances tax/fee on all money sent out of the US https://www.americanthinker.com/articles/2018/05/tax_remittances_can_build_the_wall.html 2% of $140b is +$3b a year

D. Reform entitlements, Medicare & Social Security, currently projected to be insolvent:

A real conservative, on the federal level supports ONLY what the US constitution allows. One of the more important aspects of this is the congressional authority to create money. Not pass it off to the Federal Reserve.
There's a few agencies that are unconstitutional. But could be deemed as such with the "promote for the general welfare" clause. But that's a HUGE stretch.