2012, the issues, the politics, the cliches.

[Skynet]

Great, a moron...

thanks for contributing nothing to the conversation

I already have, you're taking what people say way out of context as to derail the conversation.

how is that out of context, he said he wanted to return to the 12th-18th century. i simply listed all the thing he would have to give up in order to return to those days. (oh and forgot to mention modern medicine) those times were simpler because there was no global market, the US wasnt a super power and technology didnt exist.

 

[DiamondDave]

who sets the guidelines for getting a HS diploma even through homeschooling? oh thats right the state! you either follow their guidelines or you kid doesnt get a high school diploma.


your kids are also gonna have a major issue getting a decent job in the future without a college education. unless he wants to dig a ditch, work at a fast food resturant or clean my pool and mow my lawn.

well you dont have to live in this Country either, go ahead and move to somewhere that has everything you want. no one is forcing you to live here.

Bullshit...

Ever hear of trade schools? Working your way up after gaining entry level jobs? You think construction workers don't make money? You think a person opening a cleaning service needs a college education?

Signed...
H.S. diploma Army trained Vet making well above the average income as an engineer and manager in the tech world

 

[Skynet]

who sets the guidelines for getting a HS diploma even through homeschooling? oh thats right the state! you either follow their guidelines or you kid doesnt get a high school diploma.

your kids are also gonna have a major issue getting a decent job in the future without a college education. unless he wants to dig a ditch, work at a fast food resturant or clean my pool and mow my lawn.

Who says they need a high school diploma. If I had the cash to be able to do it, I'd be looking at setting myself up on a piece of private property, probably in the hills of North Carolina and just basically telling society to kiss my ass entirely.

well you dont have to live in this Country either, go ahead and move to somewhere that has everything you want. no one is forcing you to live here.

Unfortunately, since this is the only country that currently allows relatively free private ownership of firearms, yes I am kind of stuck here. I've commented in the past that if most of the Middle Eastern states allowed gun ownership I'd have been gone from here two decades ago.

hahaha youre kids are gonna be high school drop outs! or even middle school drop outs! and how are you gonna get this cash to buy your private compound? you need an education to get a good job and actually make money.

 

[Missourian]

Debt and the economy.

When it comes down to brass tacks, those are the two major issues.

 

[Two Thumbs]

that would be awesome because i hate TV, cars, planes, electricity, the internet, my computer, my ipod, GPS, indoor plumbing, hot showers, refrigeration, my cell phone, professional sports, railroad, and everything else created since 1900 (and what about the 1800's? are those just the lost dark years?)

a proper society has squat to do with "stuff".

This.

Thanks.

When dealing with children, you need to keep it simple.

 

[Skynet]

Yes we are trying to Conserve. We're trying to Conserve and Restore a proper society. That would be one much more like the 12th thru 18th Centuries than the 20th - 21st Centuries.

that would be awesome because i hate TV, cars, planes, electricity, the internet, my computer, my ipod, GPS, indoor plumbing, hot showers, refrigeration, my cell phone, professional sports, railroad, and everything else created since 1900 (and what about the 1800's? are those just the lost dark years?)

a proper society has squat to do with "stuff".

cars and planes fuel trade, electricity runs everything that we do in society, the internet is used to control vast systems across the world as well as disseminate information, computer control every intricate part of our society today, do i need to go on....

 

[Anachronism]

a proper society has squat to do with "stuff".

True, but I tend to find that societies where "stuff" (whether physical or intellectual) is valued highly tend to be the furthest from proper and decent. If they toys and the privileges/rights of the individual are highly prized there is much more chance that morality, decency, and values have been thrown away in pursuit of those goals.

 

[Avorysuds]

thanks for contributing nothing to the conversation

I already have, you're taking what people say way out of context as to derail the conversation.

how is that out of context, he said he wanted to return to the 12th-18th century. i simply listed all the thing he would have to give up in order to return to those days. (oh and forgot to mention modern medicine) those times were simpler because there was no global market, the US wasnt a super power and technology didnt exist.

I believe he meant society, not the shit we buy... Like you said, before the US became a "superpower" and needed to do away with as many freedoms as possible so that we can have welfare/HC for everyone (including illegal’s!) and build a massive military that can spread our countries greatness around the globe.

Maybe I was wrong....

 

[Wry Catcher]

Yes we are trying to Conserve. We're trying to Conserve and Restore a proper society. That would be one much more like the 12th thru 18th Centuries than the 20th - 21st Centuries.

that would be awesome because i hate TV, cars, planes, electricity, the internet, my computer, my ipod, GPS, indoor plumbing, hot showers, refrigeration, my cell phone, professional sports, railroad, and everything else created since 1900 (and what about the 1800's? are those just the lost dark years?)

Great, a moron...

Well, one honest post. Avorysuds admits being a reactionary; and wants to return to a time of authoritarian kings and slavery.

 

[Avorysuds]

a proper society has squat to do with "stuff".

True, but I tend to find that societies where "stuff" (whether physical or intellectual) is valued highly tend to be the furthest from proper and decent. If they toys and the privileges/rights of the individual are highly prized there is much more chance that morality, decency, and values have been thrown away in pursuit of those goals.

Fine, please explain what you mean... Did you mean that people should be living in huts they built themselves with no electricity or shoes or did you mean Government needs to be reigned back?

 

[Avorysuds]

that would be awesome because i hate TV, cars, planes, electricity, the internet, my computer, my ipod, GPS, indoor plumbing, hot showers, refrigeration, my cell phone, professional sports, railroad, and everything else created since 1900 (and what about the 1800's? are those just the lost dark years?)

Great, a moron...

Well, one honest post. Avorysuds admits being a reactionary; and wants to return to a time of authoritarian kings and slavery.

erm, what? I admited I want this?

 

[Two Thumbs]

that would be awesome because i hate TV, cars, planes, electricity, the internet, my computer, my ipod, GPS, indoor plumbing, hot showers, refrigeration, my cell phone, professional sports, railroad, and everything else created since 1900 (and what about the 1800's? are those just the lost dark years?)

a proper society has squat to do with "stuff".

cars and planes fuel trade, electricity runs everything that we do in society, the internet is used to control vast systems across the world as well as disseminate information, computer control every intricate part of our society today, do i need to go on....

Damn you're dim.

Society is how we treat each other. Not just how we use our stuff.

 

[Skynet]

who sets the guidelines for getting a HS diploma even through homeschooling? oh thats right the state! you either follow their guidelines or you kid doesnt get a high school diploma.


your kids are also gonna have a major issue getting a decent job in the future without a college education. unless he wants to dig a ditch, work at a fast food resturant or clean my pool and mow my lawn.

well you dont have to live in this Country either, go ahead and move to somewhere that has everything you want. no one is forcing you to live here.

Bullshit...

Ever hear of trade schools? Working your way up after gaining entry level jobs? You think construction workers don't make money? You think a person opening a cleaning service needs a college education?

Signed...
H.S. diploma Army trained Vet making well above the average income as an engineer and manager in the tech world

working your way up from an $8 an hour job to the average starting salary of a college grade typically doesnt happen in 4 years. ive also worked in construction, and union guys yes they make decent wages, non union guys start at around $12 an hour for a general laborer, and skilled operators usually top out around $45 - $50 an hour, but that does take quite a long time to make it from laborer to operator, unless........ you get a higher education!

trade schools I still consider to be higher education beyond high school as you actually need a diploma to get into to one.

the army i will give you, but i also consider the technical jobs of the army to be its own higher education in itself. nuclear engineer, aircraft mechanic, intelligence officer... and so on are very highly skilled jobs and earn good living.

 

[Trajan]

I agree the 'cons', lead by Grover Norquist want to shrink government down to nothing, he has said so in nearly those exact words. I don't believe progressives want big government, especially on the federal level - though progressives employed by the Federal Governent are the exception.

There is no doubt progressives value social programs, and cons do not. But not all progressives support spending on those social programs where the bang is only a puff. Some don't work, others simply kick the can down the road; failure should not be rewareded.

As a people we need to think better beyond ideology and put our limited resources towards what works.

What doesn't work?

The war on drugs, failure.
The war on terror, failure (or, at least, the money and lives spent has been too great for the curent outcome).
Foreign Policy (doing the same thing over and over)
Immitgration Policy, failure (if in fact we have one)
Primary/Secondary Education, failure (for too many)
Higher education (too expensive for too many)

Too often the problems are not defined, and by failing to properly focus on the problem solutions are offered based on emotion, intuition, bias and self interest.

There is no doubt progressives value social programs, and cons do not.

uh huh.

so if I am a libertarian, what? I am in purgatory? do I care?

No, but you are rather irrelevant. As a Libertarian you and your kind are the archetype of an ideologue. Some of what your kind advocates (Dr. Paul, for example) make sense, other aspects are impractical at best, and some of it harmful.

excellent, schools out.....

later..!

 

[Annie]

We live in interesting times. The upcoming election will decide the quality of life for the next generation of Americans as the people will pick a new House of Representatives, one-third of the Senate and a President who will guide us until January 2017.

Since the election of Ronald Reagan our politics have been sorely divided along ideological lines, as the two major parties seek to fundamentally change America. The issues we face today have changed very little over the course of our history as a nation; today, unfortunately, the animosity amonst us maybe as severe as at anytime in our history, save for Civil War era.

Every week or so a new event clouds the landscape as the talking heads, blogosphere and 24/7 'news' issues BREAKING NEWS alerts, many times on salacious matters which have nothing to do with our real problems.

Is it possilbe for there to be general agreement on the real problems facing us today? And from there to begin to dabate potenital solutions critically, looking outside the box of ideological purity?

It's not ideology that will be Obama's problem in 2012, I think you know that:

Forget those Republicans for now, Obama's real 2012 opponent is The Economy - latimes.com

Forget those Republicans for now, Obama's real 2012 opponent is The Economy

It's not really that hard to do so far.

Just forget for a minute the expanding array of already, certain and maybe Republican presidential candidates. And forget the idea of a serious Democratic challenger to President Obama next year.

The incumbent's most serious opponent for reelection in 2012 is right now and likely still will be not a person but The Economy.

It's not good, despite all of Joe Biden's glib fundraiser promises. From the very beginning of his presidency, which sure seems like more than 870 days ago, almost every poll has shown the top concerns of Americans were economic: jobs, the economy, the deficit...

 

[Skynet]

a proper society has squat to do with "stuff".

cars and planes fuel trade, electricity runs everything that we do in society, the internet is used to control vast systems across the world as well as disseminate information, computer control every intricate part of our society today, do i need to go on....

Damn you're dim.

Society is how we treat each other. Not just how we use our stuff.

morals and values determine how we treat each other, and those are learned from your parents, not "society"

 

[Anachronism]

hahaha youre kids are gonna be high school drop outs! or even middle school drop outs! and how are you gonna get this cash to buy your private compound? you need an education to get a good job and actually make money.

I don't expect to ever have any kids. If I did they wouldn't be dropouts from anything because they wouldn't have gone to a public school to begin with. They would be homeschooled just like my two nephews and my niece are being/will be.

I've got a decent paying job in a technical field. Thankfully I had two parents who were willing to go into the schools and fight to keep my brothers and myself out of the garbage, useless classes and to help educate us at home as well. That's not anywhere near as easy to do anymore, which is why no child of mine would ever step foot inside a public school, and probably wouldn't set foot in a private one either.

 

[Skynet]

hahaha youre kids are gonna be high school drop outs! or even middle school drop outs! and how are you gonna get this cash to buy your private compound? you need an education to get a good job and actually make money.

I don't expect to ever have any kids. If I did they wouldn't be dropouts from anything because they wouldn't have gone to a public school to begin with. They would be homeschooled just like my two nephews and my niece are being/will be.

I've got a decent paying job in a technical field. Thankfully I had two parents who were willing to go into the schools and fight to keep my brothers and myself out of the garbage, useless classes and to help educate us at home as well. That's not anywhere near as easy to do anymore, which is why no child of mine would ever step foot inside a public school, and probably wouldn't set foot in a private one either.

good, go get fixed so they arent a drain on society.

 

[Anachronism]

I believe he meant society, not the shit we buy... Like you said, before the US became a "superpower" and needed to do away with as many freedoms as possible so that we can have welfare/HC for everyone (including illegal’s!) and build a massive military that can spread our countries greatness around the globe.

Maybe I was wrong....

Society is the way our government works, the way we think, act, and speak, the things we value and spend our money on. It is the entire way our world operates.

Well, one honest post. Avorysuds admits being a reactionary; and wants to return to a time of authoritarian kings and slavery.

No, actually that would be ME, not Avory

Fine, please explain what you mean... Did you mean that people should be living in huts they built themselves with no electricity or shoes or did you mean Government needs to be reigned back?

I'm an Authoritarian. I am a Feudalist. Reigning Government BACK only works if your population can be counted on to do the Right thing without being forced, and we no longer have that sort of population. In my mind Government should be involved in less things, but what it is involved in their power should be almost Omnipotent.

I also believe that our level of technology and our desire for physical objects has seriously clouded our moral judgement on things. We are more interested in the shiny bauble than we are in what harm that bauble may do to the morals, values, and decency of our society.

 

[Anachronism]

good, go get fixed so they arent a drain on society.

How would you suspect that they would be a drain on society? They would grow up with the same mindset that I have.... You take NOTHING from the government. I will DIE before I take any monies, healthcare, services, etc... from the State or Federal Government.