2012, the issues, the politics, the cliches.

[Wry Catcher]

We live in interesting times. The upcoming election will decide the quality of life for the next generation of Americans as the people will pick a new House of Representatives, one-third of the Senate and a President who will guide us until January 2017.

Since the election of Ronald Reagan our politics have been sorely divided along ideological lines, as the two major parties seek to fundamentally change America. The issues we face today have changed very little over the course of our history as a nation; today, unfortunately, the animosity amonst us maybe as severe as at anytime in our history, save for Civil War era.

Every week or so a new event clouds the landscape as the talking heads, blogosphere and 24/7 'news' issues BREAKING NEWS alerts, many times on salacious matters which have nothing to do with our real problems.

Is it possilbe for there to be general agreement on the real problems facing us today? And from there to begin to dabate potenital solutions critically, looking outside the box of ideological purity?

 

[Two Thumbs]

Progs want bigger government. Even in the face of absolute collapse.
Cons want to shrink it down to next to nothing. Even in the face that some people will suffer.

Progs run the DNC and push the RNC

Cons have just re-entered the RNC and don't exist in the DNC


we will march past the point of collapse, just as planned. The election will only decide when, if it has not occured.

 

[boedicca]

This pic summarizes the major issue: Obama Made Things Worse.

 

[Barb]

no. sadly, but no. As long as the American public is misled through the politicians and the mass media about what the true state of public opinion is (we'll tell you what most of you think, and most of you will go along with it), and as long as most of us are working too hard at two and three jobs to make ends meet to be the "informed" electorate this representative republic was predicated upon (and those who wish to stay in control have pulled out all stops to see to it), we will continue to allow ourselves to be pitted against each other in the fight over "social values" and economic crumbs rather than any solid policies that would or could have any lasting value to any of us.

 

[CountofTuscany]

Three key issues. Economy, Our foriegn policy - are we too involved elsewhere? and developing clean alternatives to oil.

That's where we need to focus

 

[Wry Catcher]

This pic summarizes the major issue: Obama Made Things Worse.

Aren't there enough "it's all Obama's fault"? There are plenty of threads for you to poison with partisan crap, please go away.

 

[MaggieMae]

This pic summarizes the major issue: Obama Made Things Worse.

So whose projection is that^? Link?

 

[MaggieMae]

We live in interesting times. The upcoming election will decide the quality of life for the next generation of Americans as the people will pick a new House of Representatives, one-third of the Senate and a President who will guide us until January 2017.

Since the election of Ronald Reagan our politics have been sorely divided along ideological lines, as the two major parties seek to fundamentally change America. The issues we face today have changed very little over the course of our history as a nation; today, unfortunately, the animosity amonst us maybe as severe as at anytime in our history, save for Civil War era.

Every week or so a new event clouds the landscape as the talking heads, blogosphere and 24/7 'news' issues BREAKING NEWS alerts, many times on salacious matters which have nothing to do with our real problems.

Is it possilbe for there to be general agreement on the real problems facing us today? And from there to begin to dabate potenital solutions critically, looking outside the box of ideological purity?

Kudos for the attempt, but I don't see political compromise until we have bread lines. Conservatives will continue to believe that the private sector will step up and fix everything, with no assist from the public sector. What's needed is a solid, realistic partnership of both, and begin by leaving politicking completely out of it. As individuals, we don't hold much sway in making that happen.

 

[Skynet]

i wonder if there had been a republican president, and we had no extension of unemployment benefits and no stimulus, how much higher the actual unemployment rate would have climbed to....

and where is the GOP to blame in all of this? they have been in control of the House for the last 6 months and we havent seen any major changes in unemployment or the economy, are we to say they are to blame for this as well? what happens if the debt ceiling isn't raised, are you all gonna blame Obama for that or does the GOP get the blame for blocking all legislation?

 

[jellybean]

Boy, oh boy, Wry......do I ever agree with you. The politicians are so busy trying to either make each other look bad or further their own agenda that the real work that this country so sorely needs is not getting done. When did we fall off the course of fixing our problems? (There are so many of them.) Sometimes I think that our government system is so flawed/broken that we'll never get it back on track again, at least not with the way our current government operates. And that worries me for my children, who are now in their late twenties. I wonder what kind of government their generation is going to be left with. When the governments of other countries (i.e. China) start warning us to "stop playing with fire" when it comes to our fiscal activities, our current government had better sit up and take notice.

And the media? The main concern by too many media outlets these days seems to be how to most effectively sensationalize (and many times put a negative spin on) any bit of information they can find. I think that if we turned on the news every night and heard about the good being done by regular, everyday people to make our local communities better there might be a wave of change in this country. In the absence of continual negativity in the media and, instead, exposure to positive reporting on events people might be more inclined to stand up from their easy chairs and say "what can I do to help make this country great again?" So much negativity and hatefulness only breeds apathy and discontent.

I know I may have a pie-in-the-sky attitude. I realize there are bad things that happen in the world every day. But I believe in a glass half-full, versus always half-empty (or completely empty!). I believe that this country is only as strong as its people. And if we lie down and die because we seem to have a runaway government, then that's exactly what this country will do: Die. We CAN be great again. Get rid of the schmucks and bums in Washington and let's get on with it.

 

[Two Thumbs]

i wonder if there had been a republican president, and we had no extension of unemployment benefits and no stimulus, how much higher the actual unemployment rate would have climbed to....

and where is the GOP to blame in all of this? they have been in control of the House for the last 6 months and we havent seen any major changes in unemployment or the economy, are we to say they are to blame for this as well? what happens if the debt ceiling isn't raised, are you all gonna blame Obama for that or does the GOP get the blame for blocking all legislation?

The GOP controlls 1/2 of 1/3 of the federal government.

Your expectations are overly comical.

 

[whitehall]

We live in interesting times. The upcoming election will decide the quality of life for the next generation of Americans as the people will pick a new House of Representatives, one-third of the Senate and a President who will guide us until January 2017.

Since the election of Ronald Reagan our politics have been sorely divided along ideological lines, as the two major parties seek to fundamentally change America. The issues we face today have changed very little over the course of our history as a nation; today, unfortunately, the animosity amonst us maybe as severe as at anytime in our history, save for Civil War era.

Every week or so a new event clouds the landscape as the talking heads, blogosphere and 24/7 'news' issues BREAKING NEWS alerts, many times on salacious matters which have nothing to do with our real problems.

Is it possilbe for there to be general agreement on the real problems facing us today? And from there to begin to dabate potenital solutions critically, looking outside the box of ideological purity?

Since Reagan our politics have been divided along ideological lines? Try FDR. How's this for a trite cliche, "hope and change". Already been done? Maybe "hope you have more than change in your pocket when democrats get through with you" will resonate. Imagine what would have happened to the United States if republicans hadn't gained the majority in congress? Democrats would have continued to spend us into the 3rd world.

 

[Anachronism]

It's not the politicians, folks. They are a symptom of the greater problem... the decline of the American Citizenry. The Founders limited those who were allowed to take part in government for a reason. We are now seeing exactly why that was. The unwashed masses do not have the intelligence, the reasoning, the common sense, logic, or morals and virtues required to be allowed to govern or to have a say in governance. Until we change that, this nation is as doomed as Rome was.

 

[Wry Catcher]

Progs want bigger government. Even in the face of absolute collapse.
Cons want to shrink it down to next to nothing. Even in the face that some people will suffer.

Progs run the DNC and push the RNC

Cons have just re-entered the RNC and don't exist in the DNC


we will march past the point of collapse, just as planned. The election will only decide when, if it has not occured.

I agree the 'cons', lead by Grover Norquist want to shrink government down to nothing, he has said so in nearly those exact words. I don't believe progressives want big government, especially on the federal level - though progressives employed by the Federal Governent are the exception.

There is no doubt progressives value social programs, and cons do not. But not all progressives support spending on those social programs where the bang is only a puff. Some don't work, others simply kick the can down the road; failure should not be rewareded.

As a people we need to think better beyond ideology and put our limited resources towards what works.

What doesn't work?

The war on drugs, failure.
The war on terror, failure (or, at least, the money and lives spent has been too great for the curent outcome).
Foreign Policy (doing the same thing over and over)
Immitgration Policy, failure (if in fact we have one)
Primary/Secondary Education, failure (for too many)
Higher education (too expensive for too many)

Too often the problems are not defined, and by failing to properly focus on the problem solutions are offered based on emotion, intuition, bias and self interest.

 

[Skynet]

i wonder if there had been a republican president, and we had no extension of unemployment benefits and no stimulus, how much higher the actual unemployment rate would have climbed to....

and where is the GOP to blame in all of this? they have been in control of the House for the last 6 months and we havent seen any major changes in unemployment or the economy, are we to say they are to blame for this as well? what happens if the debt ceiling isn't raised, are you all gonna blame Obama for that or does the GOP get the blame for blocking all legislation?

The GOP controlls 1/2 of 1/3 of the federal government.

Your expectations are overly comical.

nicely put that you offer exactly no opinions or solutions to any of these problems. thanks for wasting everyones time though.

 

[CountofTuscany]

i wonder if there had been a republican president, and we had no extension of unemployment benefits and no stimulus, how much higher the actual unemployment rate would have climbed to....

and where is the GOP to blame in all of this? they have been in control of the House for the last 6 months and we havent seen any major changes in unemployment or the economy, are we to say they are to blame for this as well? what happens if the debt ceiling isn't raised, are you all gonna blame Obama for that or does the GOP get the blame for blocking all legislation?

Democrats had control of the house and Senate for the 4 years prior. So by your logic they are the ones who got us into this mess.

 

[Trajan]

Progs want bigger government. Even in the face of absolute collapse.
Cons want to shrink it down to next to nothing. Even in the face that some people will suffer.

Progs run the DNC and push the RNC

Cons have just re-entered the RNC and don't exist in the DNC


we will march past the point of collapse, just as planned. The election will only decide when, if it has not occured.

I agree the 'cons', lead by Grover Norquist want to shrink government down to nothing, he has said so in nearly those exact words. I don't believe progressives want big government, especially on the federal level - though progressives employed by the Federal Governent are the exception.

There is no doubt progressives value social programs, and cons do not. But not all progressives support spending on those social programs where the bang is only a puff. Some don't work, others simply kick the can down the road; failure should not be rewareded.

As a people we need to think better beyond ideology and put our limited resources towards what works.

What doesn't work?

The war on drugs, failure.
The war on terror, failure (or, at least, the money and lives spent has been too great for the curent outcome).
Foreign Policy (doing the same thing over and over)
Immitgration Policy, failure (if in fact we have one)
Primary/Secondary Education, failure (for too many)
Higher education (too expensive for too many)

Too often the problems are not defined, and by failing to properly focus on the problem solutions are offered based on emotion, intuition, bias and self interest.

There is no doubt progressives value social programs, and cons do not.

uh huh.

so if I am a libertarian, what? I am in purgatory? do I care?

 

[Anachronism]

The war on drugs, failure.
The war on terror, failure (or, at least, the money and lives spent has been too great for the curent outcome)

Neither of these Wars have ever actually been fought. Especially the first one. Take the leash off the US Military and the FBI/BATFE/DEA and we can easily win both of these conflicts.

Foreign Policy (doing the same thing over and over)
Immitgration Policy, failure (if in fact we have one)

A properly Isolationist and Nationalistic society cures both of these problems overnight.

Primary/Secondary Education, failure (for too many)
Higher education (too expensive for too many)

Pri/Sec Education was never intended to be a State or Federal issue. It should be handled at the LOCAL level, and predominantly structured and paid for by the parents of the children being educated.

The idea that college SHOULD BE the goal of most/all high school students is laughable. Most simply waste four years in college and come out no more prepared for a CAREER than when they went in. The expense isn't the issue, the VALUE is. $160K for a piece of worthless paper that makes one no more job-ready than when they walked out of high school? I don't think so.

 

[Skynet]

i wonder if there had been a republican president, and we had no extension of unemployment benefits and no stimulus, how much higher the actual unemployment rate would have climbed to....

and where is the GOP to blame in all of this? they have been in control of the House for the last 6 months and we havent seen any major changes in unemployment or the economy, are we to say they are to blame for this as well? what happens if the debt ceiling isn't raised, are you all gonna blame Obama for that or does the GOP get the blame for blocking all legislation?

Democrats had control of the house and Senate for the 4 years prior. So by your logic they are the ones who got us into this mess.

the GOP had control of everything from 2000 to 2006 and saw a huge increase in the overall size of government and spending, while giving huge tax breaks to the rich. we can play this game all day if you want.

the point of asking the question is that no one, not even economists though the economy was in as bad of shape as it actually was prior to the stimulus. now did it work..ehhhhh kinda. it worked a bit in limiting some of the damage, but did it bring the economy back... no and we have seen evidence of that now. hindsight is always 20-20.

the problems with partisan politics today is that the GOP has been consistently taking the hard line stance and drawing the line in the sand. even Boehner has said that he is not willing to compromise, only find common ground. Compromise is what the nation needs, but recent history has shown the the dems compromise more than the repubs.

 

[Anachronism]

so if I am a libertarian, what? I am in purgatory? do I care?

If you're a Libertarian you're a Liberal. I would have thought basic English Comp would have taught you that based on the base word for both terms.