Jordan had to deal with the Bad Boys. 10 great guys on that team. And they did knock Jordan on his ass. And before them Jordan had to deal with Bird. He was young. Cut him some slack. Jordan retired Bird, the Bad Boys and Magic Johnson. That's why he's the greatest.
I'm sure you would agree that Bird had a much better supporting cast than Jordan. Right? Or are you going to start being a Bulls jocker and compare that team to the Celtics? You can't have it both ways now. So you are either admitting that Bird had a better team or you are comparing the Bulls to what you consider one of the greatest teams of all time? And that's why Jordan is the greatest. He did it 6 times with an inferior team. Your words, not mine.
And come on. Until he got Pippen? Like Pippen is that great? Wade got LeBron and how has that worked out? Jordan did it with average centers at best. Role players. And he won 6 championships. Bird? So with a better team, Bird won less? Interesting.
P.S. I think the Jordan, Pippen and Rodman team is one of the best all time. Didn't they win the most games? Rodman was great. Is he in the Hall of Fame yet? I know he's broke.
I wouldn't agree with that nonsense at all. Jordan didn't retire the 80's stars. Age and injury did. That is pretty clear. And they wiped the floor with him in their prime.
What Jordan did do is beat the 80's B stars in the watered down 90s in a league in which Stern couldn't do enough to give Jordan every advantage (cough: push off on Russell).
Jordan was zero for five in actually even having a winning season without Pippen. How can you possibly so easily ignore that reality? Like another poster said, he was the third best player on his own college team. When he retired the first time, the Bulls didn't lose much.
Bird beat him 14 times in a row. If Dirk beat Durant 14 straight times or LBJ beat Kobe 14 straight times or KG beat Duncan 14 straight times; we wouldn't be calling out Durant, Kobe or Duncan as the greatest most likely.
Yes, of course Bird had a better team when he did it. That's not the point. The point is that if Jordan was so great he wouldn't have got his ass swept twice. He wouldn't have put up a donut in the 4th quarter while Bird was busting 15 in his eye with McHale out on his own home court. He wouldn't have choked in the Game 4 at home of the 1989 ECF against the Pistions, up 2-1 at home!
And why were Bird's teams so great? You can point to talent; but how misguided is that. He never played with a great athlete like a Pippen or even a Worthy. When he was finally going to get a chance with Bias, the dude died. He won, because he was out there playing chess while everyone else was playing checkers. He won because he was arguably the greatest shooter of all-time to boot.
Jordan was a unique talent. I'll give him that. And he did some things on the court better than anyone probably ever has. But you have to keep it in perspective. Basketball is still a team sport and it's not athleticism only. It still comes down to a comprehensive skill set.
And it's not a a matter of simply admitting that either Bird was better or his team was better b/c the Bulls were inferior to prior teams. It's a matter of understanding the eras. You have no idea how much expansion diluted the talent as it was already on the down hill. Look at league scoring by year to see. At one point, Stern was so desperate that he moved the three point line in. And to the end, watch yt vids of Jordan in the three point contest vs. Bird in the three point contest and you'll see the crazy difference in their shots.
You have to understand just how much better the 80's were than the 90's. There were four, maybe five teams that I would rank better than the Bulls. The Celtics and Lakers of course. But an equally worthy team is the Sixers who had went to a couple championships in the late seventies and went to a few more in the early 80's. Bird literally had to compete against two "dynasty" quality teams. People forget that the Sixers went 10 deep and their bench was about as good as their starters. And in a three or four year span there, Moses Malone and Dr. J won all the MVPs.
Then the Twin Tower Rockets were good for a few years there; but certainly not as good for as long as the Bulls. And the Bad Boys; I mean really the mid 80's to late 80's Bad Boys pretty much have it on the Bulls too.
It's simply idiotic to take a simple minded approach by ring counting or all of the sudden Robert Horry is great at 7 rings or Bill Russell is greatest by far at 11 rings. You have to look at all the details.
