2012 NBA Playoffs

[TheGreatGatsby]

Game 4 is must win for Miami. My money is on the Pacers. The Heat's money is on the refs

 

[mudwhistle]

If you're from CA why are you a Celts fan?

You should get together with Art 15.

 

[TheGreatGatsby]

If you're from CA why are you a Celts fan?

You should get together with Art 15.

Art 15 is a doosh homer. I'm a true C's fan that's only even been to Massachusetts once in my life lol. And I like the C's b/c Bird was great and I stuck with them thereafter.

 

[mudwhistle]

If you're from CA why are you a Celts fan?

You should get together with Art 15.

Art 15 is a doosh homer. I'm a true C's fan that's only even been to Massachusetts once in my life lol. And I like the C's b/c Bird was great and I stuck with them thereafter.

I liked the Celts then the Bulls once Jordan learned how to pass the damned ball, now I'm a Celts fan again because of KG. I've never been there. I also don't live in a state that has a team.

However, I don't watch Basketball much now. I'm a football fan, big-time. Charger fan even though I live near Nashville. I lived in SD for several years in the 70s and 80s, and never dropped the team. Probably never will.

 

[TheGreatGatsby]

This comment in the comments section of the Spurs/Clippers Game 2 Recap made me laugh:

Spurs V. Pacers
2012 NBA Championships

F You David Stern lol.

Sweet 16: Streaking Spurs go up 2-0 on Clippers - Yahoo! Sports

 

[High_Gravity]

The Miami Heat are in serious trouble, Chris Bosh going down really changes who they are as a team and it looks like Dwayne Wade is playing through an injury himself even though they are trying to be vague about it. I don't want to hear anymore comparisons between Michael Jordan and Lebron James anymore, Lebron was terrible last night in the second half, was not interested and just didn't know what to do, and Wade yelling at his coach and getting in his face was just ridiculous and inexcusable. I heard the commentators trying to make excuses for him and said it happens all the time but looking back I don't see it, I don't recall Larry Bird yelling at his coach when he had a shitty game, or Michael Jordan, Magic Johnson, or todays players Kevin Garnett, Tim Duncan, etc. thats just showing a shitty attitude, and where was Lebron when that was going on? he's supposed to be the man on this team now right? and how the hell can you be the best player on the team when the ball goes to someone else during crunch time? this is still Dwayne Wade's team, D Wade just told the media Lebron was the better player to try and give him some confidence and for the media to stop asking them whose team this is, if Wade is ripping on the coach and Lebron is quiet like a school girl, its Wades team, period. Unless Wade and Lebron each go off for 30+ points the next game I can't see the Heat winning, Mario Chalmers can't be counted on to have that kind of performance again and the Heat's bench is just trash and they have no bigs, the Heat are dreaming of having Ryan Hollins and Greg Steisma to guard Roy Hibbert right now.

 

[High_Gravity]

They need to go get it tonight.

 

[High_Gravity]

I wouldn't agree with that nonsense at all. Jordan didn't retire the 80's stars. Age and injury did. That is pretty clear. And they wiped the floor with him in their prime.

What Jordan did do is beat the 80's B stars in the watered down 90s in a league in which Stern couldn't do enough to give Jordan every advantage (cough: push off on Russell).

Jordan was zero for five in actually even having a winning season without Pippen. How can you possibly so easily ignore that reality? Like another poster said, he was the third best player on his own college team. When he retired the first time, the Bulls didn't lose much.

Bird beat him 14 times in a row. If Dirk beat Durant 14 straight times or LBJ beat Kobe 14 straight times or KG beat Duncan 14 straight times; we wouldn't be calling out Durant, Kobe or Duncan as the greatest most likely.

Yes, of course Bird had a better team when he did it. That's not the point. The point is that if Jordan was so great he wouldn't have got his ass swept twice. He wouldn't have put up a donut in the 4th quarter while Bird was busting 15 in his eye with McHale out on his own home court. He wouldn't have choked in the Game 4 at home of the 1989 ECF against the Pistions, up 2-1 at home!

And why were Bird's teams so great? You can point to talent; but how misguided is that. He never played with a great athlete like a Pippen or even a Worthy. When he was finally going to get a chance with Bias, the dude died. He won, because he was out there playing chess while everyone else was playing checkers. He won because he was arguably the greatest shooter of all-time to boot.

Jordan was a unique talent. I'll give him that. And he did some things on the court better than anyone probably ever has. But you have to keep it in perspective. Basketball is still a team sport and it's not athleticism only. It still comes down to a comprehensive skill set.

And it's not a a matter of simply admitting that either Bird was better or his team was better b/c the Bulls were inferior to prior teams. It's a matter of understanding the eras. You have no idea how much expansion diluted the talent as it was already on the down hill. Look at league scoring by year to see. At one point, Stern was so desperate that he moved the three point line in. And to the end, watch yt vids of Jordan in the three point contest vs. Bird in the three point contest and you'll see the crazy difference in their shots.

You have to understand just how much better the 80's were than the 90's. There were four, maybe five teams that I would rank better than the Bulls. The Celtics and Lakers of course. But an equally worthy team is the Sixers who had went to a couple championships in the late seventies and went to a few more in the early 80's. Bird literally had to compete against two "dynasty" quality teams. People forget that the Sixers went 10 deep and their bench was about as good as their starters. And in a three or four year span there, Moses Malone and Dr. J won all the MVPs.

Then the Twin Tower Rockets were good for a few years there; but certainly not as good for as long as the Bulls. And the Bad Boys; I mean really the mid 80's to late 80's Bad Boys pretty much have it on the Bulls too.

It's simply idiotic to take a simple minded approach by ring counting or all of the sudden Robert Horry is great at 7 rings or Bill Russell is greatest by far at 11 rings. You have to look at all the details.

You make a lot of great points. Can't say you are wrong. But just some things to consider. Jordan clearly peaked when he won his first 3 championships, took a break, and then came back and still owned the sport. He wasn't the same guy who lost to the Celtics, Pistons or Lakers. Not the same guy that played in college. Do you know why I was such a great wrestler my senior year? Because I got beat up my Sophomore and Junior years by Seniors. Who knows who would beat who if we were both seniors. Typically we always think the older kid was better but that's only because he beat up on the younger one for 3 years. Hard to get that out of our memory. I often wonder if I was as good as B. Blair. He was a beast! But so was I. But I think if I met him today I would still be intimidated by him. I hate younger kids who run into me and suggest they could have beat me if we were both seniors. Disrespectful to their elders I say. I never do that to older guys. I go by who did better at the State tournament. Doesn't matter if my competition was better than yours. I took 5th and I know guys who wrestled at really low weight classes but they placed higher than me. So I bow to them, even though they were at ***** weight classes.

Jordan is still the best. Sorry. Who do you think is the best?

I'll even give you that the league was watered down when Jordan won, but he still owned it. No one else came close during his time. Ewing, Reggie Miller, Karl Malone, Mourning. They all tried but couldn't come close.

While I'm sure you were much more skillful you're senior year as a wrestler, I'm sure you were also much more stronger and certainly not on the downhill of your physical skills.

And let me put it this way; had Bird and McHale still been healthy, even in their older years; I wouldn't have bet on them to lose to a prime Jordan and Pippen. They wiped the floor with them before the injuries and that wasn't changing.

Forward to Jordan on his last legs. Who was he competing against? An older Reggie Miller, an older Patrick Ewing, an older Clyde Drexler, an older and fatter Charles Barkley, an older John Stockton and Karl Malone. You can't pretend that those situations are at all the same. And had he not retired the first time, experts tend to believe he would have lost to the older Olajuwon and Older Drexler whereas Bird wiped the floor with a prime Olajuwon and Sampson Twin Tower combo.

You stick any Bulls team into the 80's and they're not the favorite. And depending on the year, maybe about the 4th or 5th best team only. The Bulls were basically a Miami Heat plus one team. They're not all that great despite our propensity to label them a dynasty.

Whoa hold on there, I wouldn't go that far. The Bulls may not have dominated in the 80's but they are 40 times better than the Miami Heat, if you took this Miami Heat team right now including Chris Bosh and put them in a playoff series against the Seattle Supersonics and the Utah Jazz back in the 90's, Miami would get totally ass raped. Shawn Kemp and Karl Malone would have career playoff series against those fools and Stockton and Gary Payton would obliterate their weak point guards, not even close.

 

[skipper]

The heat not having Bosh is a big neg for them. He's a big but loves to take those midrange jumpers that draws people out to defend which creates better lanes for Wade and James for drives that they prefer doing. Those two are good outside shooters but that's not where their comfort zone is IMO. The paint is going to stay clogged against drives through the lane without Bosh drawing a defender or two out. They could even go 'twin towers' with Hibbert and Hansbrough if there was a need but I don't see one in this series. Bird has done a great job with this roster.

 

[High_Gravity]

The heat not having Bosh is a big neg for them. He's a big but loves to take those midrange jumpers that draws people out to defend which creates better lanes for Wade and James for drives that they prefer doing. Those two are good outside shooters but that's not where their comfort zone is IMO. The paint is going to stay clogged against drives through the lane without Bosh drawing a defender or two out. They could even go 'twin towers' with Hibbert and Hansbrough if there was a need but I don't see one in this series. Bird has done a great job with this roster.

Chris Bosh going down was one of the worst things that could have happened to the Heat, even with him there they were very thin in regards to big men, Ronny Turiaf and Udonis Haslem just is not going to get it done. Lebron and Wade will have to average 30 points each to even have a chance in this series.

 

[skipper]

The heat not having Bosh is a big neg for them. He's a big but loves to take those midrange jumpers that draws people out to defend which creates better lanes for Wade and James for drives that they prefer doing. Those two are good outside shooters but that's not where their comfort zone is IMO. The paint is going to stay clogged against drives through the lane without Bosh drawing a defender or two out. They could even go 'twin towers' with Hibbert and Hansbrough if there was a need but I don't see one in this series. Bird has done a great job with this roster.

Chris Bosh going down was one of the worst things that could have happened to the Heat, even with him there they were very thin in regards to big men, Ronny Turiaf and Udonis Haslem just is not going to get it done. Lebron and Wade will have to average 30 points each to even have a chance in this series.

Yep. And they have to work a lot harder to get those points.

 

[High_Gravity]

The heat not having Bosh is a big neg for them. He's a big but loves to take those midrange jumpers that draws people out to defend which creates better lanes for Wade and James for drives that they prefer doing. Those two are good outside shooters but that's not where their comfort zone is IMO. The paint is going to stay clogged against drives through the lane without Bosh drawing a defender or two out. They could even go 'twin towers' with Hibbert and Hansbrough if there was a need but I don't see one in this series. Bird has done a great job with this roster.

Chris Bosh going down was one of the worst things that could have happened to the Heat, even with him there they were very thin in regards to big men, Ronny Turiaf and Udonis Haslem just is not going to get it done. Lebron and Wade will have to average 30 points each to even have a chance in this series.

Yep. And they have to work a lot harder to get those points.

Wade yelling at his coach like that was not a good sign, that means he has no respect for Spoelstra and he knows he has no balls, I can't recall the last time I saw Paul Pierce rip into Doc Rivers like that or Tony Parker go off on Coach Popovich.

 

[mudwhistle]

Chris Bosh going down was one of the worst things that could have happened to the Heat, even with him there they were very thin in regards to big men, Ronny Turiaf and Udonis Haslem just is not going to get it done. Lebron and Wade will have to average 30 points each to even have a chance in this series.

Yep. And they have to work a lot harder to get those points.

Wade yelling at his coach like that was not a good sign, that means he has no respect for Spoelstra and he knows he has no balls, I can't recall the last time I saw Paul Pierce rip into Doc Rivers like that or Tony Parker go off on Coach Popovich.

Now you know why I don't watch BB anymore.

Spoiled millionaires complaining isn't my cup of tea.

 

[High_Gravity]

Yep. And they have to work a lot harder to get those points.

Wade yelling at his coach like that was not a good sign, that means he has no respect for Spoelstra and he knows he has no balls, I can't recall the last time I saw Paul Pierce rip into Doc Rivers like that or Tony Parker go off on Coach Popovich.

Now you know why I don't watch BB anymore.

Spoiled millionaires complaining isn't my cup of tea.

Thats only spoiled brats like Lebron, Wade and Kobe Bryant, there are still class acts in the league like Tim Duncan on the Spurs and the Celtics Ray Allen.

 

[TheGreatGatsby]

Wade yelling at his coach like that was not a good sign, that means he has no respect for Spoelstra and he knows he has no balls, I can't recall the last time I saw Paul Pierce rip into Doc Rivers like that or Tony Parker go off on Coach Popovich.

Now you know why I don't watch BB anymore.

Spoiled millionaires complaining isn't my cup of tea.

Thats only spoiled brats like Lebron, Wade and Kobe Bryant, there are still class acts in the league like Tim Duncan on the Spurs and the Celtics Ray Allen.

No. He's right. Once Stern started changing all the rules and going to star calls; he perverted the sport and he took a man's game and he turned it into some video game nonsense for 13 year olds. It's ridiculous when I see 5 times a game Lebron not even get touched but he's flailing like someone just hit him with a power upper cut.

 

[TheGreatGatsby]

^^^

This'll be the best year I can remember in a long time for basketball purists if this holds:

Pacers (a real team) beat the Heat (Whiny Wade and James and over-rated Bosh)
Celts (a real team) beat the Sixers (not a good team)
Spurs (12 deep) beat the Clippers (Chris Paul and Blake Griffin both whiners)
OKC beats the Lakers (Kobe and Bynum both punks and Artest a mental midget)

 

[TheGreatGatsby]

This is old news; but back at the end of Game 3 when the C's had the undersized Marquis Daniels guarding Al Horford on not one but two out of bounds plays; they totally lucked out.

 

[sealybobo]

I say the biggest FAIL in NBA history is Kobe, Shaq, Payton, Malone. How did they not win?

Well Gary Payton and Karl Malone were a shell of their former selves by the time they got to the Lakers, they were not the players they used to be. Hell Karl Malone barely even played in the Finals that year.

More proof I don't know what I'm talking about. If you look back to past posts, I said guaranteed LeBron would be in the finals against either Duncan or Durant. Now it looks like its going to be Boston in the finals.

 

[sealybobo]

If you're from CA why are you a Celts fan?

You should get together with Art 15.

Art 15 is a doosh homer. I'm a true C's fan that's only even been to Massachusetts once in my life lol. And I like the C's b/c Bird was great and I stuck with them thereafter.

Is it because he was white? I am white but I favored Showtime Magic and the Lakers. The Celtics were dirty. They taught the Bad Boys how to play. I miss those days.

 

[sealybobo]

Wade yelling at his coach like that was not a good sign, that means he has no respect for Spoelstra and he knows he has no balls, I can't recall the last time I saw Paul Pierce rip into Doc Rivers like that or Tony Parker go off on Coach Popovich.

Now you know why I don't watch BB anymore.

Spoiled millionaires complaining isn't my cup of tea.

Thats only spoiled brats like Lebron, Wade and Kobe Bryant, there are still class acts in the league like Tim Duncan on the Spurs and the Celtics Ray Allen.

Why do I get the vibe that Ray Allen is an angry bitter man with a chip on his shoulder? Doesn't seem like a nice guy to me.