You Want to Understand Black Americans’ Solidarity With Palestine?

[peacefan]

No, it IS their problem. There are so many resources out there to help the downtrodden that if they aren't availing themselves of those, it is because they don't care to.

If you support them not bettering themselves, then you are enabling them to be poor.

what 'resources'? links please!

 

[peacefan]

No, it harms the middle class, who are beginning to defend themselves because law enforcement refuses to.

leading to risks of more and more violence.
a "civil war" between the poor and middle class + police.

 

[John Edgar Slow Horses]

The following is a morally confused statement: "If you support them not bettering themselves, then you are enabling them to be poor."

 

[westwall]

oh, and that of course means we should just accept that?!

Try working on the group that does it the most to get the greatest result in the least amount of time. Then work on the next group etc. Here's a hint. It ain't whitey.

 

[Rocko]

His government created the mess. People don't seem to get that. So now everybody is cheering for him to slaughter the people he empowered.

Jews and Palestinians have been fighting well before Netanyahu, and will be fighting after Netanyahu.

What is your opinion on the Arab role in the slave trade of your people?

 

[westwall]

what 'resources'? links please!

Here are a few....of THOUSANDS available. Like I said, if you don't avail yourself, it's because you don't want to.

Resources for National Poverty in America Awareness Month - Social Current

www.social-current.org

Community Development from Deliverance Charities

We at Deliverance Charities are committed to Community Development from showing compassion and love to those in need. Join us in changing the world.

www.delivercharity.org

Top government programs for low-income families – HealthSherpa Blog

COVID-19/Coronavirus Assistance Programs | FindHelp.org

Search COVID-19/Coronavirus assistance programs in your ZIP code. Programs helping with food, paying bills, and more.

www.findhelp.org

Low income assistance programs

 

[peacefan]

Try working on the group that does it the most to get the greatest result in the least amount of time. Then work on the next group etc. Here's a hint. It ain't whitey.

sorry, does what the most?..

 

[peacefan]

Here are a few....of THOUSANDS available. Like I said, if you don't avail yourself, it's because you don't want to.

Resources for National Poverty in America Awareness Month - Social Current

www.social-current.org

Community Development from Deliverance Charities

We at Deliverance Charities are committed to Community Development from showing compassion and love to those in need. Join us in changing the world.

www.delivercharity.org

Top government programs for low-income families – HealthSherpa Blog

COVID-19/Coronavirus Assistance Programs | FindHelp.org

Search COVID-19/Coronavirus assistance programs in your ZIP code. Programs helping with food, paying bills, and more.

www.findhelp.org

Low income assistance programs

i'm happy with my income level and abilities to one day maybe escape my near-poverty circumstances
but thank you for the links.
however, i fail to see how this links back to the central remark that started us down this sub-thread of discussion;
how i can understand that blacks sympathize with Hamas.

the poorest blacks aren't too smart, generally speaking, and i wouldn't support Hamas myself (in fact, i support the Israeli stance that they should be rooted out after this latest round of atrocities).
but still, i can understand the blacks' protest, based on "economic oppression".
success rates for government anti-poverty programs aren't great,
the programs are hard to stick to,
and not as easy as accepting a handout (like the rich folks arranged for themselves to the tune of $2 trillion during the Trump admin.).

 

[westwall]

i'm happy with my income level and abilities to one day maybe escape my near-poverty circumstances
but thank you for the links.
however, i fail to see how this links back to the central remark that started us down this sub-thread of discussion;
how i can understand that blacks sympathize with Hamas.

the poorest blacks aren't too smart, generally speaking, and i wouldn't support Hamas myself (in fact, i support the Israeli stance that they should be rooted out after this latest round of atrocities).
but still, i can understand the blacks' protest, based on "economic oppression".
success rates for government anti-poverty programs aren't great,
they programs are hard to stick to,
and not as easy as accepting a handout (like the Rich arranged for themselves to the tune of $2 trillion during the Trump admin.).

The only economic oppression is the leadership of hamass, stealing the millions upon millions and living high on the hog in Monaco, and Monte Carlo, and Quatar, while their "people" flounder.

 

[peacefan]

The only economic oppression is the leadership of hamass, stealing the millions upon millions and living high on the hog in Monaco, and Monte Carlo, and Quatar, while their "people" flounder.

yeah.
i think we need to set up domestic PR campaigns in the US and EU and AUKUS about this.
pro-Hamas demonstrations are on the rise

 

[bigrebnc1775]

So once the information was known about the Hamas massacre, immediately the racist right wing media produced a story about a member of BLM and members of color in congress voicing support for Palestine. In the effort to maintain white supremacy by trying to get the government to declare all non whites who oppose the system of white supremacy in America terrorists, or as enemies of America, I have seens a lie posted by various "colorblind, never seeing race, democrats only use race," Republicans about black support for Hamas. Support for Palestine is not support for Hamas. Every Palestinian is not a member of Hamas. So here is an article from the black perspective, because it seems that members of the right in this forum either do not have an understanding that the experience of blacks and whites in America is an example of polar opposites or don't want to recognize this reality.

You Want to Understand Black Americans’ Solidarity With Palestine?
Black Americans know colonization when we see it
If you’re wondering why some Black Americans have expressed solidarity with Palestinian people in Gaza, you should consider this slice of American history, ranging from the final years of chattel slavery until the early days of the Reconstruction era. Abraham Lincoln, the country’s 16th President, who signed the Emancipation Proclamation, didn’t have a modernist view of racial equality that many would imagine. Most notably, Lincoln said, “I am not, nor ever have been, in favor of bringing about in any way the social and political equality of the white and black races — that I am not nor ever have been in favor of making voters or jurors of negroes, nor of qualifying them to hold office, nor to intermingling with white people; and I will say in addition to this that there is a physical difference between the white and black races which will ever forbid the two races living together on terms of… political equality.” Yikes. Despite Lincoln agreeing that slavery should be abolished, he did not believe Black people could ever coexist in America with White people, a notion many endorsed at the time.

In 1856, Linccon became a member of the American Colonization Society. Those who joined this organization shared Lincoln’s belief that Black people could not co-exist in America as equals to White people. After all, they reasoned, since Europeans forcibly removed Black Americans from their homelands in West and Central Africa, that is where they should return. This idea was presented as an alternative or a condition of abolition; they wanted to force Black Americans to migrate, to leave the country they were born in, which they fought to secure. By 1822, the American Colonization Society successfully established a West African colony. While the creation of this colony displaced and disrupted Indigenous tribes, by 1847, this land “became the independent nation of Libera.”

When local indigenous tribes vehemently resisted initial attempts to purchase land to establish this colony, a “Navy officer in charge, Lieutenant Robert Stockton, coerced a local ruler to sell a strip of land to the Society,” which gave them the leverage to solidify the colony, and ultimately spread its original borders. While Indigenous tribes continued to attack the new colony, they “built fortifications for protections,” and the capital of Liberia, Monrovia, was named to honor President James Monroe, a man who enslaved at least one hundred and seventy-eight African people in America. What does this have to do with Palestine, you may be asking?

Now, to the matter between Israel and Palestine.

According to AJ+ News, a platform that uses digital storytelling to promote “human rights and equality, holding power to account, and amplifying the voices of the powerless,” posted a video explaining that “Israel and Gaza are not two countries at war. Gaza is a territory under siege, where every aspect of life is controlled by Israel.” This sounds very similar to how White Southerners sought to control Black Americans after chattel slavery ended by creating Jim Crow laws, or Black Codes, that cast them as second-class citizens and limited their sociopolitical power and upward mobility.

Adam Hamze wrote in a 2016 Huff Post article there are ten things Palestinians can’t do because of the Israeli Occupation. Some of the most disturbing points Hamze mentioned were that Palestinians in Gaza “can’t control the flow of goods and supplies” or even “control their access to water.” Additionally, Palestinians are not free to travel across borders and or have “the same due process rights of citizenship.”

Another shocking limitation is that Palestinians in Gaza are not “equally protected by labor laws and live under curfew, which doesn’t allow them to stay out late. “Gaza residents call their home the world’s largest open-air prison. Over 1.8 million people live here on just 365 square kilometers of land. The population of Gaza — two-thirds of them younger than 25 — live in one of the most densely populated places on earth.” When you intentionally deprive people of resources, poverty, and desperation blossom, and so do extremist groups, who exploit the fact that traditional methods of mediation have failed to recruit.

After a recent attack from Hamas, a terrorist organization that’s been at odds with other Palestinian leadership in the Gaza Strip, Israel has responded by declaring war.

“According to the United Nations, roughly 6,400 Palestinians and 300 Israelis have been killed in the ongoing conflict since 2008, not counting the recent fatalities.” Sadly, following any attempt to criticize Israeli policy, someone is bound to call you anti-Semitic. However, this is a false dichotomy. You can oppose Israeli Occupation and anti-semitism at the same time.

Hey dumbass take your ass to Palestine wear your BLM shit carry a Palestinian flag I am welling to bet all I own you'll be beheaded in a weeks time. You and all Americans are dogs to the those people.

 

[Lastamender]

No. It's because whites like you are.

For years, Netanyahu propped up Hamas. Now it’s blown up in our faces

The premier's policy of treating the terror group as a partner, at the expense of Abbas and Palestinian statehood, has resulted in wounds that will take Israel years to heal from

www.timesofisrael.com

Sure thing, racist.

 

[IM2]

For years, Netanyahu propped up Hamas. Now it’s blown up in our faces
The premier’s policy of treating the terror group as a partner, at the expense of Abbas and Palestinian statehood, has resulted in wounds that will take Israel years to heal from

For years, the various governments led by Benjamin Netanyahu took an approach that divided power between the Gaza Strip and the West Bank — bringing Palestinian Authority President Mahmoud Abbas to his knees while making moves that propped up the Hamas terror group.

The idea was to prevent Abbas — or anyone else in the Palestinian Authority’s West Bank government — from advancing toward the establishment of a Palestinian state.

Most of the time, Israeli policy was to treat the Palestinian Authority as a burden and Hamas as an asset. Far-right MK Bezalel Smotrich, now the finance minister in the hardline government and leader of the Religious Zionism party, said so himself in 2015.

According to various reports, Netanyahu made a similar point at a Likud faction meeting in early 2019, when he was quoted as saying that those who oppose a Palestinian state should support the transfer of funds to Gaza, because maintaining the separation between the Palestinian Authority in the West Bank and Hamas in Gaza would prevent the establishment of a Palestinian state.

Bolstered by this policy, Hamas grew stronger and stronger until Saturday, Israel’s “Pearl Harbor,” the bloodiest day in its history — when terrorists crossed the border, slaughtered hundreds of Israelis and kidnapped an unknown number under the cover of thousands of rockets fired at towns throughout the country’s south and center.

www.timesofisrael.com/for-years-netanyahu-propped-up-hamas-now-its-blown-up-in-our-faces/

This is a article from a JERUSALEM news organization. Those who blame Biden for this apparently are not very knowledgeable people. And for those who talk about Biden giving money to Iran caused this:

Thus, amid this bid to impair Abbas, Hamas was upgraded from a mere terror group to an organization with which Israel held indirect negotiations via Egypt, and one that was allowed to receive infusions of cash from abroad.

Hamas was also included in discussions about increasing the number of work permits Israel granted to Gazan laborers, which kept money flowing into Gaza, meaning food for families and the ability to purchase basic products.

Additionally, since 2014, Netanyahu-led governments have practically turned a blind eye to the incendiary balloons and rocket fire from Gaza.

Meanwhile, Israel has allowed suitcases holding millions in Qatari cash to enter Gaza through its crossings since 2018, in order to maintain its fragile ceasefire with the Hamas rulers of the Strip.

www.timesofisrael.com/for-years-netanyahu-propped-up-hamas-now-its-blown-up-in-our-faces/

 

[John Edgar Slow Horses]

You can deal with Neti after Hamas is killed.

 

[IM2]

The Reckoning

Israel must grapple first with its enemies, and then with the failures of its own government.
By Yossi Klein Halevi

Israel faces two very different reckonings. The first is with our enemies. Until now, Netanyahu and his right-wing allies viewed Hamas as a kind of strategic asset: So long as it was in power in Gaza, a two-state solution to the Israeli-Palestinian conflict was impossible. For that reason, in addition to effectively bribing Hamas to refrain from attacking Israel, Netanyahu allowed massive infusions of cash from Qatar to prop up the Hamas government.

Besides Netanyahu’s delusion that Hamas could be politically useful, successive Israeli governments had other reasons to stop short of removing Hamas. The price of such a military conflict, in the loss of both Israeli soldiers and Palestinian civilians, would be horrific. And now all-out war with Hamas would mean an almost certain death sentence for the 150 Israeli hostages it has seized in its attacks.

Israel is hardly blameless. Understandably but disastrously, many Israelis have conflated security fears, which justify a military presence in the West Bank, with historical and religious longings for the biblical land we call Judea and Samaria. Those longings are the basis for the settlement enterprise, whose political goal is to preclude any solution to the Palestinian tragedy. And in recent months we have seen an outrageous rise in settler violence against innocent Palestinians. Even as we protect ourselves from Hamas, we need to oppose those among us who would emulate Hamas.

Israel’s second reckoning, which must await the end of the war, will be with Benjamin Netanyahu. Following the Yom Kippur War, a lone reservist named Motti Ashkenazi began a hunger strike outside the office of Prime Minister Golda Meir, demanding that she take responsibility for the joint Egyptian-Syrian surprise attack and resign. The Agranat Commission, a government-appointed inquiry headed by Israeli Supreme Court Chief Justice Shimon Agranat, focused on the failures of the military leadership and avoided blaming the politicians. But an enraged public rallied around Ashkenazi and, six months after the war, the prime minister resigned.

If anything, the rage many Israelis feel today toward Netanyahu is far greater. By tearing apart the country in his attempt to weaken the courts, he knowingly undermined Israeli deterrence. He was repeatedly warned by the IDF of the likely consequences of his judicial revolution, in terms of both the IDF’s readiness for war and the willingness of Israel’s enemies to test its weakness. Netanyahu ignored the warnings, even refusing at one point to meet with the IDF chief, Herzi Halevi.

The Reckoning

Israel must grapple first with its enemies, and then with the failures of its own government.

www.theatlantic.com

 

[IM2]

Citizens who live in Israel do not like the Netanyahu government. This guy is not a member of the NOI.

Netanyahu Is on Brand: No Responsibility, No Accountability, No Remorse​

On Thursday, Benjamin Netanyahu took his zero-responsibility-always-share-the-blame attitude to a new level by forming a “temporary war cabinet.” In any other case it would be the right thing to do - for him, it's just another way to make sure there is someone else to blame for the Gaza war failures

Netanyahu is on Brand: No Responsibility, No Accountability, No Remorse

***

www.haaretz.com

 

[IM2]

You can deal with Neti after Hamas is killed.

I'm fine with that. My point here is that we must be equally upset with the Israeli government that propped up Hamas when it could have solved the problem with allowing a Palestinian state. Instead Netanyahu empowered Hamas and it has cost his country more than 1,000 deaths. We should be equally outraged at him because it was his policy that ended up with babies being slaughtered.

 

[Weatherman2020]

So once the information was known about the Hamas massacre, immediately the racist right wing media produced a story about a member of BLM and members of color in congress voicing support for Palestine. In the effort to maintain white supremacy by trying to get the government to declare all non whites who oppose the system of white supremacy in America terrorists, or as enemies of America, I have seens a lie posted by various "colorblind, never seeing race, democrats only use race," Republicans about black support for Hamas. Support for Palestine is not support for Hamas. Every Palestinian is not a member of Hamas. So here is an article from the black perspective, because it seems that members of the right in this forum either do not have an understanding that the experience of blacks and whites in America is an example of polar opposites or don't want to recognize this reality.

You Want to Understand Black Americans’ Solidarity With Palestine?
Black Americans know colonization when we see it
If you’re wondering why some Black Americans have expressed solidarity with Palestinian people in Gaza, you should consider this slice of American history, ranging from the final years of chattel slavery until the early days of the Reconstruction era. Abraham Lincoln, the country’s 16th President, who signed the Emancipation Proclamation, didn’t have a modernist view of racial equality that many would imagine. Most notably, Lincoln said, “I am not, nor ever have been, in favor of bringing about in any way the social and political equality of the white and black races — that I am not nor ever have been in favor of making voters or jurors of negroes, nor of qualifying them to hold office, nor to intermingling with white people; and I will say in addition to this that there is a physical difference between the white and black races which will ever forbid the two races living together on terms of… political equality.” Yikes. Despite Lincoln agreeing that slavery should be abolished, he did not believe Black people could ever coexist in America with White people, a notion many endorsed at the time.

In 1856, Linccon became a member of the American Colonization Society. Those who joined this organization shared Lincoln’s belief that Black people could not co-exist in America as equals to White people. After all, they reasoned, since Europeans forcibly removed Black Americans from their homelands in West and Central Africa, that is where they should return. This idea was presented as an alternative or a condition of abolition; they wanted to force Black Americans to migrate, to leave the country they were born in, which they fought to secure. By 1822, the American Colonization Society successfully established a West African colony. While the creation of this colony displaced and disrupted Indigenous tribes, by 1847, this land “became the independent nation of Libera.”

When local indigenous tribes vehemently resisted initial attempts to purchase land to establish this colony, a “Navy officer in charge, Lieutenant Robert Stockton, coerced a local ruler to sell a strip of land to the Society,” which gave them the leverage to solidify the colony, and ultimately spread its original borders. While Indigenous tribes continued to attack the new colony, they “built fortifications for protections,” and the capital of Liberia, Monrovia, was named to honor President James Monroe, a man who enslaved at least one hundred and seventy-eight African people in America. What does this have to do with Palestine, you may be asking?

Now, to the matter between Israel and Palestine.

According to AJ+ News, a platform that uses digital storytelling to promote “human rights and equality, holding power to account, and amplifying the voices of the powerless,” posted a video explaining that “Israel and Gaza are not two countries at war. Gaza is a territory under siege, where every aspect of life is controlled by Israel.” This sounds very similar to how White Southerners sought to control Black Americans after chattel slavery ended by creating Jim Crow laws, or Black Codes, that cast them as second-class citizens and limited their sociopolitical power and upward mobility.

Adam Hamze wrote in a 2016 Huff Post article there are ten things Palestinians can’t do because of the Israeli Occupation. Some of the most disturbing points Hamze mentioned were that Palestinians in Gaza “can’t control the flow of goods and supplies” or even “control their access to water.” Additionally, Palestinians are not free to travel across borders and or have “the same due process rights of citizenship.”

Another shocking limitation is that Palestinians in Gaza are not “equally protected by labor laws and live under curfew, which doesn’t allow them to stay out late. “Gaza residents call their home the world’s largest open-air prison. Over 1.8 million people live here on just 365 square kilometers of land. The population of Gaza — two-thirds of them younger than 25 — live in one of the most densely populated places on earth.” When you intentionally deprive people of resources, poverty, and desperation blossom, and so do extremist groups, who exploit the fact that traditional methods of mediation have failed to recruit.

After a recent attack from Hamas, a terrorist organization that’s been at odds with other Palestinian leadership in the Gaza Strip, Israel has responded by declaring war.

“According to the United Nations, roughly 6,400 Palestinians and 300 Israelis have been killed in the ongoing conflict since 2008, not counting the recent fatalities.” Sadly, following any attempt to criticize Israeli policy, someone is bound to call you anti-Semitic. However, this is a false dichotomy. You can oppose Israeli Occupation and anti-semitism at the same time.

Since most murders of innocents are conducted by blacks per capita, we understand.

 

[flacaltenn]

Actually blacks have 2.7 percent of the wealth and so all those black millionaires are imaginary.

You and statistics dont get along at all. In ALL of America - all colors - the top 5% of wealthy had over a $Mill in net worth. SO -- by your OWN tortured definition and the use of term "millionaire" -- If blacks AS A GROUP have 2.7% of ALL THE WEALTH in this country --(Defined as millionaires) -- We're the ones that need reparations. Not you.

Congrats on blowing the whistle on disproportionate Black wealth. Nobody should be feel oppressed because you use sources that SLAUGHTER logic/reason and statistics.

BTW -- Since it's the topic. The World Bank rates the average wealth of the West Bank Palestinians as STRONGLY "upper middle class". Fact... How the hell do they manage that being as "occupied" and apartheided as the moron Hamas supporters believe them to be?

As PJ O'Rourke outlines in "Eat the Rich" -- people who fuss over EXTRAGANT wealth in America -- need to go on a diet. Millionaires are NOT EVEN CLOSE to EXTRAVAGANT wealth in this country. And who really cares how much 1 or 2% of the population has inherited or earned?

Are You Rich? U.S. Wealth Percentiles Might Provide Answers

See the U.S. wealth percentiles and what Americans think is the magic number for them to be considered rich in 2023.

www.kiplinger.com

• People with the top 1% of net worth in the U.S. in 2022 had $10,815,000 in net worth.
• The top 2% had a net worth of $2,472,000.
• The top 5% had $1,030,000.
• The top 10% had $854,900.
• The top 50% had $522,210.

 

[flacaltenn]

How about you understanding that no one is supporting Hamas? Every Palestinian is not a member of Hamas, and most Palestinians don't like Hamas. What I showed you was that the Netanyahu government was so opposed to a Palestinian state that they empowered Hamas to oppose the Palestinian Authority. Now that is a fact written by a Jewish reprter living in Jerusalem. So maybe the problem isn't just Hamas.

You need to let that fractured fact lie. You're right that most Palis dont support radicals like Hamas, Isl Jihad, Hesbollah. But Netanyahu NOR ANY OTHER GOVT in Israel ever "favored" Hamas over Fatah or West Bank Pali Authority. STOP that.

I've explained the now sham version of Palestinian Authority wanted America to do MORE to hurt Hamas after the Pali Civil War were the PA fought Hamas for control of America. It;s the PA that controls all international aid into Gaza and it's the PA that WANTS to starve out and REMOVE Hamas as a political opponent.

NO American Administration from Bush to Biden has ever been stupid enough to play favorites. Even NEGOTIATING with Hamas over any issues in Gaza was considered by the PA to be unwelcomed.

And by the time Israel disengaged from Gaza and GAVE it TO the Palestinian authority in 2005 -- The Palestinian Authority was the TRUSTED PARTY and responsible GOVERNMENT of Gaza. Until Hamas stole it.

Netanyahu NEVER sought to sabotage the Pali Authority. The PALESTINIANS sabotaged the Pali Authority...