Yes it's Science republicans

[ding]

Right up until it's called climate.

Well... since our present temperature is at least 1.4C to 2.4C below the peak temperature of three of the past four interglacials, this is just weather.

 

[Crick]

That's your definition of weather and climate? I think it's time you met our friend Mr Dictionary.

 

[Old Rocks]

Keep up with the technology, old man. Both wind and solar are cheaper to install than Coal, natural gas, or nuclear. And both require no further fuel, nor have poisonous byproducts. Overall, they are far cheaper, and a better choice for the developing nations.

That must be why developing nations like China are falling all over themselves to use them. The wind and the sun are both cheap and efficient and and a breeze to install. Tell me, oh wise one, how many wind generators would it take to power China. How about solar panels, how many would it take to collect enough solar energy. How many more birds which the environmentalists are up in arms about would the turbines harvest for the food supply, assuming we eat scavengers, Old Rocks? You sound like a man with a Great Northern anus! You and your ilk are the laughing stock of industry, who by the way do keep track of these matters and are begging for cheaper energy to increase the bottom line and which you cry yourself to sleep lamenting, that very same bottom line. Or are you simply one who feels so badly about how your fellow man is being mistreated and abused? Nah, you do not strike me as a compassionate person, you have to be bottom liner. Get a job, duffer!

Old man, I do have a full time job. And I am only 4 years your junior. Not a pencil pushing job, either. Millwright in a steel mill. And, yes, China is falling all over itself to install wind and solar.

Renewable energy in China - Wikipedia

China’s renewable energy sector is growing faster than its fossil fuels and nuclear power capacity. In 2015 China became the world's largest producer of photovoltaic power, at 43 GW installed capacity.[1][2] China also led the world in the production and use of wind power and smart grid technologies, generating almost as much water, wind, and solar energy as all of France and Germany's power plants combined.

Whilst China has the world's largest installations of solar and wind power its energy needs are so great that in 2013 renewables provided just a little over 20% of its power generation, with most of the remainder provided by traditional coal power facilities.[3] Nevertheless, the share of renewables in the energy mix had been gradually rising from 2013 and targets from 2015 onwards have represented a step change in ambition. The next few years will demonstrate whether these ambitious targets can be delivered. As of the end of 2015 the world leading countries in wind power by installations (although the USA generated slightly more wind power at 190 TWh as of 186.3 TWh in China)[4] were: 1. China 2. USA 3. Germany 4. India 5. Spain and 6. UK, and in solar power installations: 1. China 2. Germany 3. Japan. 4. United States 5. Italy and 6. UK.

In 2013 China had a total capacity of 378 GW of renewable power, mainly from hydroelectric and wind power. China sees renewables as a source of energy security and not just only to reduce carbon emission.[5] China’s Action Plan for the Prevention and Control of Air Pollution issued by China’s State Council in September 2013, illustrates the government's desire to increase the share of renewables in China’s energy mix.[6] Unlike oil, coal and gas, the supplies of which are finite and subject to geopolitical tensions, renewable energy systems can be built and used wherever there is sufficient water, wind, and sun.[7]

Since 2005, production of solar cells in China has expanded 100-fold. As Chinese renewable manufacturing has grown, the costs of renewable energy technologies have dropped dramatically. Innovation has helped, but the main driver of reduced costs has been market expansion.[7]

 

[Old Rocks]

China Scales Back Solar, Wind Ambitions as Renewables Cool

China, the world’s biggest clean-energy investor, lowered its solar and wind power targets for 2020, a reflection of how record installations of renewables have overwhelmed the ability of the nation’s grid to absorb the new electricity.

China is now aiming for 110 gigawatts of solar power by 2020, a 27 percent reduction from an earlier target, according to a webcast posted on the website of the National Energy Administration that cited the agency’s chief engineer, Han Shui. The nation reduced its goal for wind power by 16 percent to 210 gigawatts.

While China has poured billions of dollars into clean energy in recent years, the ability to deliver the newly-generated electricity from where it’s produced to where it’s needed has lagged. The mismatch has left solar and wind capacity sitting idle in some parts of the country, hurting companies such as China Longyuan Power Group Corp. and China Datang Corp. Renewable Power Co.

Current wind and solar overwhelming their grid's ability to deliver the amount of power produced. Same thing happened here in Texas.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

China Scales Back Solar, Wind Ambitions as Renewables Cool

China, the world’s biggest clean-energy investor, lowered its solar and wind power targets for 2020, a reflection of how record installations of renewables have overwhelmed the ability of the nation’s grid to absorb the new electricity.

China is now aiming for 110 gigawatts of solar power by 2020, a 27 percent reduction from an earlier target, according to a webcast posted on the website of the National Energy Administration that cited the agency’s chief engineer, Han Shui. The nation reduced its goal for wind power by 16 percent to 210 gigawatts.

While China has poured billions of dollars into clean energy in recent years, the ability to deliver the newly-generated electricity from where it’s produced to where it’s needed has lagged. The mismatch has left solar and wind capacity sitting idle in some parts of the country, hurting companies such as China Longyuan Power Group Corp. and China Datang Corp. Renewable Power Co.

Current wind and solar overwhelming their grid's ability to deliver the amount of power produced. Same thing happened here in Texas.

Current wind and solar overwhelming their grid's ability to deliver the amount of power produced. Same thing happened here in Texas.

Yeah, unreliable energy puts a strain on the grid. That probably explains why bids for wind and solar generated electricity are so low. Not because it's economical and desirable, but because it's a pain.

 

[Old Rocks]

China Scales Back Solar, Wind Ambitions as Renewables Cool

China, the world’s biggest clean-energy investor, lowered its solar and wind power targets for 2020, a reflection of how record installations of renewables have overwhelmed the ability of the nation’s grid to absorb the new electricity.

China is now aiming for 110 gigawatts of solar power by 2020, a 27 percent reduction from an earlier target, according to a webcast posted on the website of the National Energy Administration that cited the agency’s chief engineer, Han Shui. The nation reduced its goal for wind power by 16 percent to 210 gigawatts.

While China has poured billions of dollars into clean energy in recent years, the ability to deliver the newly-generated electricity from where it’s produced to where it’s needed has lagged. The mismatch has left solar and wind capacity sitting idle in some parts of the country, hurting companies such as China Longyuan Power Group Corp. and China Datang Corp. Renewable Power Co.

Current wind and solar overwhelming their grid's ability to deliver the amount of power produced. Same thing happened here in Texas.

Current wind and solar overwhelming their grid's ability to deliver the amount of power produced. Same thing happened here in Texas.

Yeah, unreliable energy puts a strain on the grid. That probably explains why bids for wind and solar generated electricity are so low. Not because it's economical and desirable, but because it's a pain.

Well now, Texas then built a new grid dedicated to the new power sources, and has a lot more electricity. So much so that they are planning to sell electricity to New Mexico. Win-win for all.

 

[Wyatt earp]

Keep up with the technology, old man. Both wind and solar are cheaper to install than Coal, natural gas, or nuclear. And both require no further fuel, nor have poisonous byproducts. Overall, they are far cheaper, and a better choice for the developing nations.

 

[Wyatt earp]

Keep up with the technology, old man. Both wind and solar are cheaper to install than Coal, natural gas, or nuclear. And both require no further fuel, nor have poisonous byproducts. Overall, they are far cheaper, and a better choice for the developing nations.

Both wind and solar are cheaper to install than Coal, natural gas, or nuclear.

LOL!

A transformation is happening in global energy markets that’s worth noting as 2016 comes to an end: Solar power, for the first time, is becoming the cheapest form of new electricity.

This has happened in isolated projects in the past: an especially competitive auction in the Middle East, for example, resulting in record-cheap solar costs. But now unsubsidized solar is beginning to outcompete coal and natural gas on a larger scale, and notably, new solar projects in emerging markets are costing less to build than wind projects, according to fresh data from Bloomberg New Energy Finance.

The chart below shows the average cost of new wind and solar from 58 emerging-market economies, including China, India, and Brazil. While solar was bound to fall below wind eventually, given its steeper price declines, few predicted it would happen this soon.

“Solar investment has gone from nothing—literally nothing—like five years ago to quite a lot,” said Ethan Zindler, head of U.S. policy analysis at BNEF. “A huge part of this story is China, which has been rapidly deploying solar” and helping other countries finance their own projects.

Half the Price of Coal
This year has seen a remarkable run for solar power. Auctions, where private companies compete for massive contracts to provide electricity, established record after record for cheap solar power. It started with a contract in January to produce electricity for $64 per megawatt-hour in India; then a deal in August pegging $29.10 per megawatt hour in Chile. That’s record-cheap electricity—roughly half the price of competing coal power.

“Renewables are robustly entering the era of undercutting” fossil fuel prices, BNEF chairman Michael Liebreich said in a note to clients this week.

World Energy Hits a Turning Point: Solar That's Cheaper Than Wind

Yes, LOL. It has happened, and coal is simply done.

Because you made coal more expensive



Fucking lying spin masters...


.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

China Scales Back Solar, Wind Ambitions as Renewables Cool

China, the world’s biggest clean-energy investor, lowered its solar and wind power targets for 2020, a reflection of how record installations of renewables have overwhelmed the ability of the nation’s grid to absorb the new electricity.

China is now aiming for 110 gigawatts of solar power by 2020, a 27 percent reduction from an earlier target, according to a webcast posted on the website of the National Energy Administration that cited the agency’s chief engineer, Han Shui. The nation reduced its goal for wind power by 16 percent to 210 gigawatts.

While China has poured billions of dollars into clean energy in recent years, the ability to deliver the newly-generated electricity from where it’s produced to where it’s needed has lagged. The mismatch has left solar and wind capacity sitting idle in some parts of the country, hurting companies such as China Longyuan Power Group Corp. and China Datang Corp. Renewable Power Co.

Current wind and solar overwhelming their grid's ability to deliver the amount of power produced. Same thing happened here in Texas.

Current wind and solar overwhelming their grid's ability to deliver the amount of power produced. Same thing happened here in Texas.

Yeah, unreliable energy puts a strain on the grid. That probably explains why bids for wind and solar generated electricity are so low. Not because it's economical and desirable, but because it's a pain.

Well now, Texas then built a new grid dedicated to the new power sources, and has a lot more electricity. So much so that they are planning to sell electricity to New Mexico. Win-win for all.

Well now, Texas then built a new grid dedicated to the new power sources, and has a lot more electricity.

Oops, a cloud just covered the Sun, less electricity.
Oops, the wind just slowed, less electricity.

 

[I amso IR]

Keep up with the technology, old man. Both wind and solar are cheaper to install than Coal, natural gas, or nuclear. And both require no further fuel, nor have poisonous byproducts. Overall, they are far cheaper, and a better choice for the developing nations.

That must be why developing nations like China are falling all over themselves to use them. The wind and the sun are both cheap and efficient and and a breeze to install. Tell me, oh wise one, how many wind generators would it take to power China. How about solar panels, how many would it take to collect enough solar energy. How many more birds which the environmentalists are up in arms about would the turbines harvest for the food supply, assuming we eat scavengers, Old Rocks? You sound like a man with a Great Northern anus! You and your ilk are the laughing stock of industry, who by the way do keep track of these matters and are begging for cheaper energy to increase the bottom line and which you cry yourself to sleep lamenting, that very same bottom line. Or are you simply one who feels so badly about how your fellow man is being mistreated and abused? Nah, you do not strike me as a compassionate person, you have to be bottom liner. Get a job, duffer!

Old man, I do have a full time job. And I am only 4 years your junior. Not a pencil pushing job, either. Millwright in a steel mill. And, yes, China is falling all over itself to install wind and solar.

Renewable energy in China - Wikipedia

China’s renewable energy sector is growing faster than its fossil fuels and nuclear power capacity. In 2015 China became the world's largest producer of photovoltaic power, at 43 GW installed capacity.[1][2] China also led the world in the production and use of wind power and smart grid technologies, generating almost as much water, wind, and solar energy as all of France and Germany's power plants combined.

Whilst China has the world's largest installations of solar and wind power its energy needs are so great that in 2013 renewables provided just a little over 20% of its power generation, with most of the remainder provided by traditional coal power facilities.[3] Nevertheless, the share of renewables in the energy mix had been gradually rising from 2013 and targets from 2015 onwards have represented a step change in ambition. The next few years will demonstrate whether these ambitious targets can be delivered. As of the end of 2015 the world leading countries in wind power by installations (although the USA generated slightly more wind power at 190 TWh as of 186.3 TWh in China)[4] were: 1. China 2. USA 3. Germany 4. India 5. Spain and 6. UK, and in solar power installations: 1. China 2. Germany 3. Japan. 4. United States 5. Italy and 6. UK.

In 2013 China had a total capacity of 378 GW of renewable power, mainly from hydroelectric and wind power. China sees renewables as a source of energy security and not just only to reduce carbon emission.[5] China’s Action Plan for the Prevention and Control of Air Pollution issued by China’s State Council in September 2013, illustrates the government's desire to increase the share of renewables in China’s energy mix.[6] Unlike oil, coal and gas, the supplies of which are finite and subject to geopolitical tensions, renewable energy systems can be built and used wherever there is sufficient water, wind, and sun.[7]

Since 2005, production of solar cells in China has expanded 100-fold. As Chinese renewable manufacturing has grown, the costs of renewable energy technologies have dropped dramatically. Innovation has helped, but the main driver of reduced costs has been market expansion.[7]

Well "Old Rocks" thank you for enlightening me with a bit of your background. I have a warm spot in my old heart for craftsmen and tradesman. We, as such, understand dirty hands very well, a talent lost on many of todays younger folks.
Having said that with the intent of recognizing one's ability I still do not buy into the idea of wind, solar being the complete package for energy. Petroleum, natural gas, coal and coke are very much still in the race. To discard them out of hand is foolish and very costly. Not forgetting the loss of employment which accompanies such action. In my opinion keeping folks working and able to fend for themselves and families should be the number one priority, a priority not shared by the past administration. Hopefully that will change with the incoming administration. I support proven ideas which are on the table where they do not eliminate another persons income and health. Perhaps, long after our time here on the planet, things including population of the planet will be better controlled and the clean everything policy will be met, but it will not be tomorrow nor the day after and there is no current need to cut off the nose in spite of the face. The hit to nuclear use was over reaction and the Russian's and Japanese did not help with their reactor problem over there. Perhaps safe guards can and will be developed and the waste storage can be over come or reused. In any event, coal and natural gas is still the most abundant fuel we have and should be used as much as possible. And machinery, as you well know will continue the drive for oil which has proven more abundant as time has proven. At this point hydrogen power and automotive vehicles are not a reasonable mix either. Keep on keeping on youngster, it's been good talking with you. IR

 

[ABikerSailor]

China Scales Back Solar, Wind Ambitions as Renewables Cool

China, the world’s biggest clean-energy investor, lowered its solar and wind power targets for 2020, a reflection of how record installations of renewables have overwhelmed the ability of the nation’s grid to absorb the new electricity.

China is now aiming for 110 gigawatts of solar power by 2020, a 27 percent reduction from an earlier target, according to a webcast posted on the website of the National Energy Administration that cited the agency’s chief engineer, Han Shui. The nation reduced its goal for wind power by 16 percent to 210 gigawatts.

While China has poured billions of dollars into clean energy in recent years, the ability to deliver the newly-generated electricity from where it’s produced to where it’s needed has lagged. The mismatch has left solar and wind capacity sitting idle in some parts of the country, hurting companies such as China Longyuan Power Group Corp. and China Datang Corp. Renewable Power Co.

Current wind and solar overwhelming their grid's ability to deliver the amount of power produced. Same thing happened here in Texas.

Current wind and solar overwhelming their grid's ability to deliver the amount of power produced. Same thing happened here in Texas.

Yeah, unreliable energy puts a strain on the grid. That probably explains why bids for wind and solar generated electricity are so low. Not because it's economical and desirable, but because it's a pain.

Well now, Texas then built a new grid dedicated to the new power sources, and has a lot more electricity. So much so that they are planning to sell electricity to New Mexico. Win-win for all.

Well now, Texas then built a new grid dedicated to the new power sources, and has a lot more electricity.

Oops, a cloud just covered the Sun, less electricity.
Oops, the wind just slowed, less electricity.

Up here in the Texas panhandle, the wind hardly ever stops. Kinda disappointed me when I bought a small drone, because it's hard to fly in winds over 10 mph, and that is probably 330 days out of the year, sometimes it even gets up to 60 mph when the fronts come through. And, it's because of the wind that there are so many wind turbines up in this area of the world, and more companies are building even more.

Sorry, but wind energy IS viable in some places of the world. Same with solar.

 

[ding]

That's your definition of weather and climate? I think it's time you met our friend Mr Dictionary.

No, It means that we are still within the norm of an interglacial cycle temperatures because we are still in an interglacial cycle. What we are seeing are still the natural vvariation of temperature in an interglacial cycle. Stop shitting your pants over this. The sky is not falling and temperatures are not rising because we have 120 PARTS PER MILLION of CO2 in our atmosphere.

 

[Crick]

No one, Ding, is "shitting their pants" over anything you say.

 

[ding]

No one, Ding, is "shitting their pants" over anything you say.

I didn't say you were shitting your pants over what I wrote. I implied that you are shitting your pants over a 120 PARTS PER MILLION increase in atmospheric CO2.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

China Scales Back Solar, Wind Ambitions as Renewables Cool

China, the world’s biggest clean-energy investor, lowered its solar and wind power targets for 2020, a reflection of how record installations of renewables have overwhelmed the ability of the nation’s grid to absorb the new electricity.

China is now aiming for 110 gigawatts of solar power by 2020, a 27 percent reduction from an earlier target, according to a webcast posted on the website of the National Energy Administration that cited the agency’s chief engineer, Han Shui. The nation reduced its goal for wind power by 16 percent to 210 gigawatts.

While China has poured billions of dollars into clean energy in recent years, the ability to deliver the newly-generated electricity from where it’s produced to where it’s needed has lagged. The mismatch has left solar and wind capacity sitting idle in some parts of the country, hurting companies such as China Longyuan Power Group Corp. and China Datang Corp. Renewable Power Co.

Current wind and solar overwhelming their grid's ability to deliver the amount of power produced. Same thing happened here in Texas.

Current wind and solar overwhelming their grid's ability to deliver the amount of power produced. Same thing happened here in Texas.

Yeah, unreliable energy puts a strain on the grid. That probably explains why bids for wind and solar generated electricity are so low. Not because it's economical and desirable, but because it's a pain.

Well now, Texas then built a new grid dedicated to the new power sources, and has a lot more electricity. So much so that they are planning to sell electricity to New Mexico. Win-win for all.

Well now, Texas then built a new grid dedicated to the new power sources, and has a lot more electricity.

Oops, a cloud just covered the Sun, less electricity.
Oops, the wind just slowed, less electricity.

Up here in the Texas panhandle, the wind hardly ever stops. Kinda disappointed me when I bought a small drone, because it's hard to fly in winds over 10 mph, and that is probably 330 days out of the year, sometimes it even gets up to 60 mph when the fronts come through. And, it's because of the wind that there are so many wind turbines up in this area of the world, and more companies are building even more.

Sorry, but wind energy IS viable in some places of the world. Same with solar.

Sorry, but wind energy IS viable in some places of the world. Same with solar.

You bet. And the other 90% are just there for the tax subsidies.

 

[Crick]

Todd, ever heard of wires? Power is regularly carried hundreds of miles. And industries that use large amounts of electricity (like aluminum and concrete) will locate themselves where power is available and cheap.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

Todd, ever heard of wires? Power is regularly carried hundreds of miles. And industries that use large amounts of electricity (like aluminum and concrete) will locate themselves where power is available and cheap.

Todd, ever heard of wires?

It sounds vaguely familiar.

Power is regularly carried hundreds of miles.

Sounds like a pipeline. Liberals are probably against them.

And industries that use large amounts of electricity

Should probably be destroyed. They sound yucky. And dirty. They make Gaia sad.

 

[Crick]

Hydroelectric power is only available in a limited number of locations. So I guess we shouldn't develop it.

 

[ABikerSailor]

You know, you can reduce your own power costs quite a bit by installing a solar panel on your roof. And, you can get kits that are less than 5,000.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

Hydroelectric power is only available in a limited number of locations. So I guess we shouldn't develop it.

Greens want to eliminate dams, so yes.