Yep, the UN is retarded and Muslims are hypersenstive douchebags.

[Shogun]

I'm a Christian, not a Jew, and no I do not believe it was right.< I find a big flaw in the Bible there as Moses was not allowed to enter the promised land because he was guilty of murder and then they go in a kill all those people save the one that helped them>...interesting that instead of trying to defend the Islamic religion, you attacked the Jewish religion and completely ignored the Christian religion.

being jewish isn't a necessity of believing in the OT per christianity. And, if you don't feel that jews were righteous in claiming their gift from god then your personal faith is a joke. I challenge you to have this conversation with your pastor. I bet you won't in fear of learning just how laughable your situational bumper sticker Christianity is.

so, tell me... are you faulting your GOD with promising that land to jews even though it was occupied? You DO realize that jesus was also a big fan of the OT, right? You've dug yourself into a hole and I'm willing to bet you won't even reply to this since we both know how many NT scriptures there are that validates the OT and everthing thereof.

You still can't defend the statement that those who go to war in Muhammad's name are following Muhammad's teachings, can you?

My faith is mine and nobody else's. I believe that the Bible was written by man, inspired by God and as such is susceptible to mistakes. I don't blindly follow anyone, and I don't have to ask some pastor, priest, rabbi, or whatever what I believe.

Again, no more than you CAN defend half of the fucking bible and it's NT application. You think Moses WASN:T following the teachings of his god? You think JESUS didn't venerate MOSES?

yea, your faith amounts to two things if you think acting like a Rebel without a Book allows you to dance back and forth between validing the OT in all of it's bloody glory and being skeptical where it suits you. In fact, with such a flimsy grasp on your faith you are probably not qualified to point fingers at anyone.

 

[Shogun]

I've said this before and I'll say it again..feel free to prove me wrong. No one has yet.

Those who go to war in Christ's name are going against Christ's teachings.
Those who go to war in Muhammad's name are following Muhammad's teachings.

Now you tell me again, which is the peaceful religion?

That's retarded. It would depend entirely on the context of the war. Moreover, nobody does anything in the name of Muhammad... Muslims don't worship men or idols.

Muhammad is their profit and they follow him and his teachings. Muhammad was a child molesting, ruthless killer.

and jesus was a gay dude who venerated killer jews and their OT takeover of a "promised"* land. Again, do you REALLY want to talk about sexual deviation and ruthless killings, christian? I bet you don't.



*see burning bush.

 

[Shogun]

Muhammad is their profit and they follow him and his teachings. Muhammad was a child molesting, ruthless killer.

Nonsense. Muhammad &#65018; was a wholesome and honorable man. Aisha was nineteen years old at the time the consummation of her marriage - the idea that she was "six" is misconceived. Mary was 12... was Joseph a "child molester" as well?

Joseph never had sex with Mary, though...remember. Not sure why everyone gets their panties in a twist and denies the age of Mo's wife...it was the custom of the time so you may as well admit it.

riiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiight... mary was, uh, a VIRGIN *wink wink*

 

[Againsheila]

being jewish isn't a necessity of believing in the OT per christianity. And, if you don't feel that jews were righteous in claiming their gift from god then your personal faith is a joke. I challenge you to have this conversation with your pastor. I bet you won't in fear of learning just how laughable your situational bumper sticker Christianity is.

so, tell me... are you faulting your GOD with promising that land to jews even though it was occupied? You DO realize that jesus was also a big fan of the OT, right? You've dug yourself into a hole and I'm willing to bet you won't even reply to this since we both know how many NT scriptures there are that validates the OT and everthing thereof.

You still can't defend the statement that those who go to war in Muhammad's name are following Muhammad's teachings, can you?

My faith is mine and nobody else's. I believe that the Bible was written by man, inspired by God and as such is susceptible to mistakes. I don't blindly follow anyone, and I don't have to ask some pastor, priest, rabbi, or whatever what I believe.

Again, no more than you CAN defend half of the fucking bible and it's NT application. You think Moses WASN:T following the teachings of his god? You think JESUS didn't venerate MOSES?

yea, your faith amounts to two things if you think acting like a Rebel without a Book allows you to dance back and forth between validing the OT in all of it's bloody glory and being skeptical where it suits you. In fact, with such a flimsy grasp on your faith you are probably not qualified to point fingers at anyone.

Jesus taught it's not good enough to just love your neighbor, anybody can do that, we have to love our enemies. Muhammad taught to kill anyone not a muslim and you still revere him and denigrate Christians.......

 

[Againsheila]

Nonsense. Muhammad &#65018; was a wholesome and honorable man. Aisha was nineteen years old at the time the consummation of her marriage - the idea that she was "six" is misconceived. Mary was 12... was Joseph a "child molester" as well?

Joseph never had sex with Mary, though...remember. Not sure why everyone gets their panties in a twist and denies the age of Mo's wife...it was the custom of the time so you may as well admit it.

riiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiight... mary was, uh, a VIRGIN *wink wink*

Even if you do not believe in Christianity, the virgin birth was possible, extremely unlikely, but possible. It is possible for a hermaphrodite, yes they do exist, to get themselves pregnant. Watched a documentary on it on the discovery channel.

Muhammad coveted his son's wife, so he ended their marriage and took her. She was a child and he took her. You cannot defend such actions. Even today the muslims treat their women has chattel. They aren't allowed to drive, to look a man in the eye, to go out in public without a male escort. Heck, if they are raped they are stoned to death, in the 21st century and that is the religion you have chosen. What's worse, they have now made it so no one can actually talk bad about such things so change will not happen.

Christianity as an organized religion wasn't always so enlightened. It took women standing up for themselves to make changes. Now, today, women can be pastors. The UN has just made it so that women in the Islamic religion will NEVER have rights. Yep, that's probably why you like that religion so much. Much easier if you can just beat your wife whenever you don't like what she does, isn't it?

 

[Shogun]

You still can't defend the statement that those who go to war in Muhammad's name are following Muhammad's teachings, can you?

My faith is mine and nobody else's. I believe that the Bible was written by man, inspired by God and as such is susceptible to mistakes. I don't blindly follow anyone, and I don't have to ask some pastor, priest, rabbi, or whatever what I believe.

Again, no more than you CAN defend half of the fucking bible and it's NT application. You think Moses WASN:T following the teachings of his god? You think JESUS didn't venerate MOSES?

yea, your faith amounts to two things if you think acting like a Rebel without a Book allows you to dance back and forth between validing the OT in all of it's bloody glory and being skeptical where it suits you. In fact, with such a flimsy grasp on your faith you are probably not qualified to point fingers at anyone.

Jesus taught it's not good enough to just love your neighbor, anybody can do that, we have to love our enemies. Muhammad taught to kill anyone not a muslim and you still revere him and denigrate Christians.......

jesus stated that he respected and followed the OT which is chock full of less than "neighbor loving" violence. That is the salty fact that you hope I won't pour into your wounded faith. And, you really don't know what the hell mohammed taught because Im betting jacks, joes and dominoes you don't speak arabic and are only referencing what some dogma junkie christian TOLD you.

 

[Shogun]

Joseph never had sex with Mary, though...remember. Not sure why everyone gets their panties in a twist and denies the age of Mo's wife...it was the custom of the time so you may as well admit it.

riiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiight... mary was, uh, a VIRGIN *wink wink*

Even if you do not believe in Christianity, the virgin birth was possible, extremely unlikely, but possible. It is possible for a hermaphrodite, yes they do exist, to get themselves pregnant. Watched a documentary on it on the discovery channel.

Muhammad coveted his son's wife, so he ended their marriage and took her. She was a child and he took her. You cannot defend such actions. Even today the muslims treat their women has chattel. They aren't allowed to drive, to look a man in the eye, to go out in public without a male escort. Heck, if they are raped they are stoned to death, in the 21st century and that is the religion you have chosen. What's worse, they have now made it so no one can actually talk bad about such things so change will not happen.

Christianity as an organized religion wasn't always so enlightened. It took women standing up for themselves to make changes. Now, today, women can be pastors. The UN has just made it so that women in the Islamic religion will NEVER have rights. Yep, that's probably why you like that religion so much. Much easier if you can just beat your wife whenever you don't like what she does, isn't it?

uh.. so NOW Mary was a hermaphrodite now, eh?


oooook.







and, lets be clear, WOMEN in the torah are treated like fucking property too. How many scriptures in the OT do you want to see? Every point that you THINK denigrates islam only conveys your own ignorance in facing the reality of your own faith regardless of your rationalized selective belief.


true story. Just say the word.. again, I LOVE posting scripture from the bible.

 

[Againsheila]

Again, no more than you CAN defend half of the fucking bible and it's NT application. You think Moses WASN:T following the teachings of his god? You think JESUS didn't venerate MOSES?

yea, your faith amounts to two things if you think acting like a Rebel without a Book allows you to dance back and forth between validing the OT in all of it's bloody glory and being skeptical where it suits you. In fact, with such a flimsy grasp on your faith you are probably not qualified to point fingers at anyone.

Jesus taught it's not good enough to just love your neighbor, anybody can do that, we have to love our enemies. Muhammad taught to kill anyone not a muslim and you still revere him and denigrate Christians.......

jesus stated that he respected and followed the OT which is chock full of less than "neighbor loving" violence. That is the salty fact that you hope I won't pour into your wounded faith. And, you really don't know what the hell mohammed taught because Im betting jacks, joes and dominoes you don't speak arabic and are only referencing what some dogma junkie christian TOLD you.

You can get English versions of the Koran, though I'm told that they are different than the one's given to the muslims.

I've read parts of the Koran and I've read up on Muhammad. You know that what I said about Muhammad is true. Hence, the claim that I don't know what I'm talking about instead of trying to post the truth because you know the truth would only back up what I said.

Jesus didn't follow the old testament. He even gathered food on the Sabbath. I'm thinking I know more about your religion than you know about mine.

 

[Shogun]

Jesus taught it's not good enough to just love your neighbor, anybody can do that, we have to love our enemies. Muhammad taught to kill anyone not a muslim and you still revere him and denigrate Christians.......

jesus stated that he respected and followed the OT which is chock full of less than "neighbor loving" violence. That is the salty fact that you hope I won't pour into your wounded faith. And, you really don't know what the hell mohammed taught because Im betting jacks, joes and dominoes you don't speak arabic and are only referencing what some dogma junkie christian TOLD you.

You can get English versions of the Koran, though I'm told that they are different than the one's given to the muslims.

I've read parts of the Koran and I've read up on Muhammad. You know that what I said about Muhammad is true. Hence, the claim that I don't know what I'm talking about instead of trying to post the truth because you know the truth would only back up what I said.

Jesus didn't follow the old testament. He even gathered food on the Sabbath. I'm thinking I know more about your religion than you know about mine.

no, I don't "know" what you say about Mohammed is true. By all means, post your evidence. Cite SPECIFIC passages because that's exactly what I'll do the moment you want to start comparing violent holy books.

You've made an assertion about the koran and mohammed. BY ALL MEANS post your examples and cite the source. I'm totally ready to show you why you really have no room to accuse anyone of anything. ESPECIALLY violence and fucking underage girls.


And, apparently you really don't know either book


"Do not think that I [Jesus] have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them. I tell you the truth, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke or a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished. (Matthew 5:17-18)

"Then Jesus said to the crowds and to his disciples: 'The teachers of the law and the Pharisees sit in Moses' seat. So you must obey them and do everything they tell you. But do not do what they do, for they do not practice what they preach.' (Matthew 23:1-3)"

 

[Kalam]

Even if you do not believe in Christianity, the virgin birth was possible, extremely unlikely, but possible. It is possible for a hermaphrodite, yes they do exist, to get themselves pregnant. Watched a documentary on it on the discovery channel.

Even if it's with yourself, you're not a virgin if you've had vaginal intercourse.

Muhammad coveted his son's wife, so he ended their marriage and took her. She was a child and he took her. You cannot defend such actions.

That's a despicable prevarication. Zaid, a former slave who Muhammad &#65018; liberated and adopted as his own son, was married to Zainab, a woman of noble lineage who had originally intended to marry the Prophet. Zaid and Zainab's marriage was an unhappy one, so they divorced. Later, the Prophet and Zainab decided to marry each other. She wasn't a child. You're confusing her with Aishah, who was about 14 at the time of her betrothal.

Even today the muslims treat their women has chattel.

Inaccurate blanket generalization. There are 2.5 million cases of domestic abuse of females in America every year. I suppose all of the men beating their wives here are secret Muslims. Moreover, as a self-proclaimed Christian, you are in no position to accuse another religion of teaching misogyny. Are you familiar with the story of Ruth?

They aren't allowed to drive, to look a man in the eye, to go out in public without a male escort.

Scriptural justification, please.

Assuming that the practices of Saudi heretics are the practices of all Muslims is illogical.

Heck, if they are raped they are stoned to death,

Scriptural justification, please.

You're illogically arguing that a single case of extrajudicial killing, that happened to be perpetrated by Somalis, can be used to judge an entire religion.

What's worse, they have now made it so no one can actually talk bad about such things so change will not happen.

What are you doing here?

Christianity as an organized religion wasn't always so enlightened. It took women standing up for themselves to make changes. Now, today, women can be pastors.

For the most part, Christianity today does not seem to be Christianity. It seems to be cognitive dissonance in the form of a religion. One cannot seriously claim to be a Christian and to follow Christianity while acting in direct defiance of Christian tradition and scripture.

The UN has just made it so that women in the Islamic religion will NEVER have rights. Yep, that's probably why you like that religion so much. Much easier if you can just beat your wife whenever you don't like what she does, isn't it?

Scriptural justification, please.

Abu Hurairah said,

The Messenger of Allah, &#65018;, said: "The most perfect of the believers in faith is the best of them in moral excellence, and the best of you are the kindest of you to their wives." (T. 12:11)​

Aswad said,

I asked Aishah, "What did the Prophet, &#65018;, do when in his house?" She said, "He served his wife," meaning that he did work for his wife. (B. 10:44)​

 

[Ravi]

Zaid, a former slave who Muhammad &#65018; liberated and adopted as his own son, was married to Zainab, a woman of noble lineage who had originally intended to marry the Prophet. Zaid and Zainab's marriage was an unhappy one, so they divorced. Later, the Prophet and Zainab decided to marry each other. She wasn't a child. You're confusing her with Aishah, who was about 14 at the time of her betrothal.

Doesn't the bible prohibit lying down with your children's wives? Or is that just your children's husbands? It's a little confusing, though I think it is termed an abomination.

 

[Kalam]

Zaid, a former slave who Muhammad &#65018; liberated and adopted as his own son, was married to Zainab, a woman of noble lineage who had originally intended to marry the Prophet. Zaid and Zainab's marriage was an unhappy one, so they divorced. Later, the Prophet and Zainab decided to marry each other. She wasn't a child. You're confusing her with Aishah, who was about 14 at the time of her betrothal.

Doesn't the bible prohibit lying down with your children's wives? Or is that just your children's husbands? It's a little confusing, though I think it is termed an abomination.

I really don't remember. I remember the Biblical story of Lot &#1593;&#1604;&#1610;&#1607; &#1575;&#1604;&#1587;&#1604;&#1575;&#1605; becoming intoxicated and having children by his own daughters, though...

 

[Ravi]

Zaid, a former slave who Muhammad &#65018; liberated and adopted as his own son, was married to Zainab, a woman of noble lineage who had originally intended to marry the Prophet. Zaid and Zainab's marriage was an unhappy one, so they divorced. Later, the Prophet and Zainab decided to marry each other. She wasn't a child. You're confusing her with Aishah, who was about 14 at the time of her betrothal.

Doesn't the bible prohibit lying down with your children's wives? Or is that just your children's husbands? It's a little confusing, though I think it is termed an abomination.

I really don't remember. I remember the Biblical story of Lot &#1593;&#1604;&#1610;&#1607; &#1575;&#1604;&#1587;&#1604;&#1575;&#1605; becoming intoxicated and having children by his own daughters, though...

How'd that work out for him? I thought Muslims didn't believe that story...or maybe they didn't believe his daughters got him drunk first. Either way, the OT is pretty clear that one doesn't have sex with the spouses of your relatives. That pretty much means Mo is a fraud, no?

 

[Kalam]

Doesn't the bible prohibit lying down with your children's wives? Or is that just your children's husbands? It's a little confusing, though I think it is termed an abomination.

I really don't remember. I remember the Biblical story of Lot &#1593;&#1604;&#1610;&#1607; &#1575;&#1604;&#1587;&#1604;&#1575;&#1605; becoming intoxicated and having children by his own daughters, though...

How'd that work out for him?

According to the Bible, the sons he had by his daughters went on to form the nations of Moab and Ammon. Why?

I thought Muslims didn't believe that story...or maybe they didn't believe his daughters got him drunk first.

It's believed to be a lie. The Qur'anic account of Lot does not mention or make any reference to that episode...

Either way, the OT is pretty clear that one doesn't have sex with the spouses of your relatives. That pretty much means Mo is a fraud, no?

Zaid wasn't the prophet's son. He was a slave who was manumitted and taken in by the prophet. A distinction exists between actual, biological sons and individuals over whom you hold guardianship; Islam forbids marriage to spouses of the former. I can't remember what is said on the subject in the OT.

If by fraud you're suggesting that Muhammad was not a prophet or a messenger of Allah, I'm (obviously) inclined to disagree. The production of a work of such ethical and philosophical significance as the Qur'an, especially when one is illiterate, suggests philosophical enlightenment. A perceived violation of biblical marriage rules isn't a very solid foundation, IMO, for building an argument against that.

 

[garyd]

The Koran is little more than plagiarism by a guy with a faulty memory. Muhammad studied with the Christian at antioch and the Jews in Alexandria he left because they wouldn't make him king...

Dude was the fore runner of the modern 20th century revolutionary. You know a guy whose chief problem with the system currently in play is that he isn't running it.

 

[Kalam]

The Koran is little more than plagiarism by a guy with a faulty memory.

Lie #1...

Muhammad studied with the Christian at antioch

Lie #2...

and the Jews in Alexandria he left because they wouldn't make him king...

#3...

Dude was the fore runner of the modern 20th century revolutionary. You know a guy whose chief problem with the system currently in play is that he isn't running it.

Annnnnd #4!

Congrats, man, that's one lie per sentence.

 

[Indiana Oracle]

And the corresponding truths?

 

[Kalam]

And the corresponding truths?

The Koran is little more than plagiarism by a guy with a faulty memory. Muhammad studied with the Christian at antioch and the Jews in Alexandria he left because they wouldn't make him king...

Muhammad never studied with Christians in Antioch or with Jews in Alexandria. Those claims are completely incorrect, and to tell you the truth, I've never heard them made before. Muhammad wasn't particularly wealthy when his revelations began in 610 and would probably have found it difficult to study abroad in the manner suggested by garyd. Muhammad clearly didn't desire kingship, as the government prescribed for believers by the Qur'an is rule by shura, "consultation":

So whatever you are given is but a provision of this world’s life, and that which Allah has is better and more lasting for those who believe and rely on their Lord; and those who shun the great sins and indecencies, and whenever they are angry they forgive; and those who respond to their Lord and keep up prayer, and whose affairs are (decided) by counsel among themselves, and who spend out of what We have given them; And those who, when great wrong afflicts them, defend themselves.

And the recompense of evil is punishment like it; but whoever forgives and amends, his reward is with Allah. Surely He loves not the wrongdoers. And whoever defends himself after his being oppressed, these it is against whom there is no way. The way is only against those who oppress men and revolt in the earth unjustly. For such there is a painful chastisement. And whoever is patient and forgives -- that surely is an affair of great resolution. - 42:36-43​

The Qur'an is a unique text. The only references to Biblical stories made in the Qur'an are short synopses intended to illustrate specific moral maxims.

Here's a mostly accurate timeline of the prophet's life:
Muhammad: Legacy of a Prophet . Life of Muhammad: HTML Timeline | PBS

Note that the (bloodless) conquest of Mecca took place only after the Meccans violated the treaty they had formed with Muhammad after their failure at the Battle of the Trench.

 

[garyd]

Sorry dude those aren't lies they are historical facts. Old Muhammad did a bit of traveling around between 610 and his return to Mecca, most of which the current leaders of the Islamic faith would rather you didn't know about. Hell his daddy was a rich caravan Merchant he would have had the best of everything available at the time. He got run from Mecca mainly for being a socialist fore runner -didn't think the rich were doing enough to help the poor...

 

[Kalam]

Sorry dude those aren't lies they are historical facts. Old Muhammad did a bit of traveling around between 610 and his return to Mecca,

Ok, prove it. Show me something from a reliable, credible source that substantiates what you're saying here - that Muhammad studied with Christians and Jews and plagiarized from the Bible. Arabic translations of the Bible did not even exist at the time, and even if they had existed, the prophet was illiterate.