Ya know? How about an honest discussion.

[WillowTree]

tell you how goddamn stupid a democwat is,, he will refuse to verify an illegal's status, he will refuse to require an ID to vote but he will make an American produce proof that a person is a regestered democwat before allowing him in to voice an opinion.and excercise free speech. that's how goddamn dumb a demoncwat is. WE can all say hypocrite now!

 

[Soggy in NOLA]

The reason it appears most Americans don't want it is because once again, the Republican Noise Machine has won.

Yeah, that must be it.

 

[Lonestar_logic]

BThe bill doesn't say it will cover illegal immigrants, but it doesn't say it wouldn't either.

Yes, it actually says that explicitly. Factcheck mentioned the section, and I looked it up in the text of the bill on opencongress.

Damn I go to lunch and this thing has exploded into five pages.

From the link GT posted the only thing it says about illegal immigrants is:

THE POLL: 55 percent expect the overhaul will give coverage to illegal immigrants; 34 percent don't.

THE FACTS: The proposals being negotiated do not provide coverage for illegal immigrants.

FACT:

The Democratically-controlled U.S. House Ways and Means Committee voted 23-18 to defeat the measure introduced by Rep. Dean Heller (R-NV), which would have required the use of the existing Income and Eligibility Verification System and the Systematic Alien Verification for Entitlements System, before any care is given. This move would have ensured that only U.S. citizens would receive the taxpayer funded care.

While Obama has made claims that illegal aliens will not be covered by his plan, the following line can be found among the 1018 page bill: Sec. 59B, Pg. 170, Line 1 - “Any NONRESIDENT alien is exempt from individual taxes.”

Judicial Watch’s president Tom Fitton recently reported that Mexico directs their citizens who live in the U.S. illegally, to use taxpayer funded clinics in a dozen cities. The program is called Ventanillas de Salud (Health Windows), and is implemented in American cities which have Mexican consulates.

The government of Mexico has operated the program for some time. In 2007, Fitton wrote the following:

“Chicago, Houston, Los Angeles, San Diego and Indiana are among the cities where Mexican consulates operate the health referral system which annually costs U.S. taxpayers billions of dollars. In Los Angeles County alone, illegal immigrants cost taxpayers nearly $440 million in health services annually and a whopping $1.1 billion statewide.

Illegal aliens will be covered under Obama’s healthcare bill

 

[Lonestar_logic]

By the way Factcheck.org or whatever the fuck it's called doesn't tell the WHOLE truth. The bill doesn't say it will cover illegal immigrants, but it doesn't say it wouldn't either. The bill does provide cuts in Medicare,( 500 billion in the next ten years) which will effect senior citizens. Oh but factcheck doesn't mention that huh? How convenient.

But to be honest illegal immigrants already get free healthcare and we pay for it.

Yea and they shouldn't.

 

[WillowTree]

BThe bill doesn't say it will cover illegal immigrants, but it doesn't say it wouldn't either.

Yes, it actually says that explicitly. Factcheck mentioned the section, and I looked it up in the text of the bill on opencongress.

Damn I go to lunch and this thing has exploded into five pages.

From the link GT posted the only thing it says about illegal immigrants is:

THE POLL: 55 percent expect the overhaul will give coverage to illegal immigrants; 34 percent don't.

THE FACTS: The proposals being negotiated do not provide coverage for illegal immigrants.

FACT:

The Democratically-controlled U.S. House Ways and Means Committee voted 23-18 to defeat the measure introduced by Rep. Dean Heller (R-NV), which would have required the use of the existing Income and Eligibility Verification System and the Systematic Alien Verification for Entitlements System, before any care is given. This move would have ensured that only U.S. citizens would receive the taxpayer funded care.

While Obama has made claims that illegal aliens will not be covered by his plan, the following line can be found among the 1018 page bill: Sec. 59B, Pg. 170, Line 1 - “Any NONRESIDENT alien is exempt from individual taxes.”

Judicial Watch’s president Tom Fitton recently reported that Mexico directs their citizens who live in the U.S. illegally, to use taxpayer funded clinics in a dozen cities. The program is called Ventanillas de Salud (Health Windows), and is implemented in American cities which have Mexican consulates.

The government of Mexico has operated the program for some time. In 2007, Fitton wrote the following:

“Chicago, Houston, Los Angeles, San Diego and Indiana are among the cities where Mexican consulates operate the health referral system which annually costs U.S. taxpayers billions of dollars. In Los Angeles County alone, illegal immigrants cost taxpayers nearly $440 million in health services annually and a whopping $1.1 billion statewide.

Illegal aliens will be covered under Obama’s healthcare bill

They just talk bullshit outta both sides of their mouths and then get all pissy cause you don't buy into it. good job.

 

[Lonestar_logic]

so I am correct illegals will receive care because the democrats refuse to allow anyone to verify legal status. end of story. you can't have it both ways. either verify legal status or stfu democrats.. 500 billion dollar cuts from medicare + refusal to veryify legal status == taking from seniors and giving to illegals.

If someone without legal documents applies for health care assistance, it will be known whether he/she is here illegally and would be deported. It's a fucking no-brainer, woman.

How will it be known?

 

[Soggy in NOLA]

Bottom line is the progressives in congress along with Obama are on shakey ground. This 47 million uninsured number, the CBO estimates to be more around 9 million actually uninsured who actually desire insurance. So, we're proposing a massive overhaul to benefit 3% of the population? Nope it doesn't add up.

 

[hjmick]

BThe bill doesn't say it will cover illegal immigrants, but it doesn't say it wouldn't either.

Yes, it actually says that explicitly. Factcheck mentioned the section, and I looked it up in the text of the bill on opencongress.

Once Obama grants them all amnesty, they'll no longer be illegal. Problem solved...

phuck yew!

Shouldn't that be "phuck ewe?"

 

[wvpeach]

so I am correct illegals will receive care because the democrats refuse to allow anyone to verify legal status. end of story. you can't have it both ways. either verify legal status or stfu democrats.. 500 billion dollar cuts from medicare + refusal to veryify legal status == taking from seniors and giving to illegals.

If someone without legal documents applies for health care assistance, it will be known whether he/she is here illegally and would be deported. It's a fucking no-brainer, woman.

How will it be known?

Only citizens with valid social security cards will be issued health care cards.

No brainer - indeed.

 

[veritas]

I think most Americans DO want it. Seniors want to keep their Medicare, so I find it hard for them to assert that younger people should be locked out of something similar to what they have. That's ageism and hypocritical.

The other thing is, the people who have medicare now, haven't paid into it the way subsequent generations have had to. They got in on the ground floor without having to have borne the expense of the deduction in their paychecks to get it. Along comes the next generation and finds that opponents not only want no public option or single payer, and so they were in this thing paying along and blammo, the rules change. The people on medicare had affordable insurance available to them back in the day. They weren't paying a huge percentage of their income on it, it was a minor expense. There were pensions and the pensions were intact. That's all changed. There is no such thing as a secure pension, unless you are in Congress.

Take McCain for example. He's eligible for Medicare, VA, and Congressional coverage and has the scratch for private insurance. So he has 3 government options and is lucky enough to be able to pay out of pocket. We should all be so lucky. The most vociferous opponents of the public option already have their public options, Medicare and Congresscare. Before they spew, they should give up what they have, otherwise they are just blowing hot air. We're already taxed so that old people and Congress get theirs, why not let us get in on the program? What reasonable argument is there against it?

 

[wvpeach]

BThe bill doesn't say it will cover illegal immigrants, but it doesn't say it wouldn't either.

Yes, it actually says that explicitly. Factcheck mentioned the section, and I looked it up in the text of the bill on opencongress.

Once Obama grants them all amnesty, they'll no longer be illegal. Problem solved...

phuck yew!

Shouldn't that be "phuck ewe?"

How about we close the boarders?

Then worry about the illegals already in the nation.

Doesn't that sound reasonable.

No sense after all worrying about illegals already here till we stop them from pouring over the boarder every day..................... now is there?

 

[WillowTree]

BThe bill doesn't say it will cover illegal immigrants, but it doesn't say it wouldn't either.

Yes, it actually says that explicitly. Factcheck mentioned the section, and I looked it up in the text of the bill on opencongress.

Once Obama grants them all amnesty, they'll no longer be illegal. Problem solved...

phuck yew!

Shouldn't that be "phuck ewe?"

 

[hjmick]

Yes, it actually says that explicitly. Factcheck mentioned the section, and I looked it up in the text of the bill on opencongress.

Once Obama grants them all amnesty, they'll no longer be illegal. Problem solved...

How about we close the boarders?

Then worry about the illegals already in the nation.

Doesn't that sound reasonable.

No sense after all worrying about illegals already here till we stop them from pouring over the boarder every day..................... now is there?

I have no issue with closing the border, hell, close the northern border as well. Plenty of crossings there as well. To say there is no sense in worrying about those already in the country strikes me as somewhat defeatist, however. Despite protestations to the contrary, it could be possible to find those in this country illegally and deport them to their country of origin. It's been done before. The problem is, the current politically correct atmosphere in which we find ourselves would make the process very hard.

 

[WillowTree]

If someone without legal documents applies for health care assistance, it will be known whether he/she is here illegally and would be deported. It's a fucking no-brainer, woman.

How will it be known?

Only citizens with valid social security cards will be issued health care cards.

No brainer - indeed.

for those of you with no brain,, it's just that easy. hey?

 

[Soggy in NOLA]

We're already taxed so that old people and Congress get theirs, why not let us get in on the program?

You got yours so gimme mine. That is what this is really all about, isn't it?

 

[Soggy in NOLA]

Only citizens with valid social security cards will be issued health care cards.

No brainer - indeed.

Wel, let the party begin!

 

[Soggy in NOLA]

If someone without legal documents applies for health care assistance, it will be known whether he/she is here illegally and would be deported

Oh! Since you put it this way!
Like this is hapenning at ER's all over the ocuntry now?

 

[veritas]

We're already taxed so that old people and Congress get theirs, why not let us get in on the program?

You got yours so gimme mine. That is what this is really all about, isn't it?

No. I'm already paying for yours, now let me pay for mine as well and include me in on the deal.

Try again.

 

[MaggieMae]

Yes, that's exactly what the far-Left is doing. Hence the recognition!

So how can that be when at least in some of these town hall meetings, the speaker (presumed to be an evil far-leftist) is shouted down and now allowed to speak. Make sense, cowboy. Second request.

You've never watched, or attended any of these meetings have you. You're simply babbling regurgitated nonsense again! And following Alinksy's rules yourself! Don't you see that?

No, I don't. Because Alinsky's tactics weigh heavily on pressuring your [perceived] enemy. I don't see the speakers putting "pressure" on the audience, and I don't think I put "pressure" on you or anyone else here. (Hell, I never thought I had THAT much power of persuasion!) I call 'em like I see 'em, based on FACTS that have been well researched, sprinkled with sass and arrogance where called for. There's a world of difference. When Armey's Army (I've forgotten what it's called--Freedom [something]) calls for intentional disruptions, and worse, he has employed Alinsky's model.

Frankly, during my usual time out between 2-4PM, when I do some stuff I actually get paid for, I got to feeling bad that I picked on you. You're certainly entitled to your independent opinions, free of any media influence if you so desire. So I won't put 'pressure' on you anymore (that is until you go all goofy on me again).

 

[MaggieMae]

Here's the real deal,, The honest truth.

Illegals steal identification to land jobs, to buy homes, with stolen ID they will be enrolled at the public's expense in your socialized medical care. Your government owned government run health care and americans will be expected to foot the bill for it. so take your morality manta and place it where the moon don't shine,, same thing with your "lets have an honest discussion mantra.".

Illegal immigrants turn to identity theft - Security- msnbc.com


so until and unless you are willing to E verify some ones legality I don't want you blowing demoncwat smoke up my ass cause that dog don't hunt.

E-Verify will become effective September 8, 2009.
Senate passes E-Verify provision for contractors -- Federal Computer Week