WTF, This is what we believe?

[Lonestar_logic]

................... in private life, adults are generally protected in their affairs, and homosexuality is one of those protections.

....................

Hmmmmm for the first 200 years of the Constitution faggotry was routinely punished by Law. It still would be in most States except for usurpations by fed courts. Clearly the Founders intended no protections for queers.

Hey nranolife, apparently you're scared of a black president, because anything that isn't white, Christian, straight and conservative and in power makes you nervous.

By the way, ever heard of a thing called the Hellfire Club?

The Hellfire Club was a name for several exclusive clubs for high society rakes established in Britain and Ireland in the 18th century, and was more formally or cautiously known as the "Order of the Friars of St. Francis of Wycombe".[1] These clubs were rumoured to be the meeting places of "persons of quality"[2] who wished to take part in immoral acts, and the members were often very involved in politics. Neither the activities nor membership of the club are easy to ascertain.[3][4]

The very first Hellfire Club was founded in London in 1719, by Philip, Duke of Wharton and a handful of other high society friends.[5] The most infamous club associated with the name was established in England by Sir Francis Dashwood,[6] and met irregularly from around 1749 to around 1760, and possibly up until 1766.[7] Other clubs using the name "Hellfire Club" were set up throughout the 18th century. Most of these clubs were set up in Ireland after Wharton's were dispelled.[8]

The club motto was Fais ce que tu voudras (Do what thou wilt), a philosophy of life associated with François Rabelais' fictional abbey at Thélème[7][9] and later used by Aleister Crowley.

Most of the Founding Fathers were members.

You're gonna have to back this claim up!

"Most of the Founding Fathers were members"

 

[ABikerSailor]

Benjamin Franklin and Thomas Jefferson for starters Dipshit NoLogic.

 

[FA_Q2]

Most of the Founding Fathers were members.

Anything more than a baseless claim?


I see a lot about Benjamin Franklin but not much about the others. Most sites that I can find on the subject are extremely suspect too.

 

[Lonestar_logic]

Benjamin Franklin and Thomas Jefferson for starters Dipshit NoLogic.

Where's the evidence to back it up? And you did say MOST not just two!

So either back up your claim or admit you're a lying piece of shit.

 

[nraforlife]

Most of the Founding Fathers were members.

Anything more than a baseless claim?


I see a lot about Benjamin Franklin but not much about the others. Most sites that I can find on the subject are extremely suspect too.

Pretty standard faggot propaganda to claim virtually every prominent man in history as a closet poofer. Some were, 95% or more not.

 

[FA_Q2]

Most of the Founding Fathers were members.

Anything more than a baseless claim?


I see a lot about Benjamin Franklin but not much about the others. Most sites that I can find on the subject are extremely suspect too.

Pretty standard faggot propaganda to claim virtually every prominent man in history as a closet poofer. Some were, 95% or more not.

Well, from what I can glean from the loony sites that espouse this as fact, it seems like a sexual deviance club (as in high class whore house). Honestly, that behavior would not surprise me at all, they were rich influential men and that tends to be the norm for those in powerful positions. Fact is, this has NO bearing on the issues here and makes for a poor straw man.

 

[Dr.Traveler]

Fact is, this has NO bearing on the issues here and makes for a poor straw man.

How did the discussion even get to this point? And the truth is even if this were relevant, it'd be impossible to tell if the allegations were true at this point. Folks forget that back in the Founder's Era it just wasn't a political campaign until you've made accusations that your opponent was an inbred incestuous Goat-*&((&(@#$#@$*@#&$(@. Our adds today don't even hold a candle to the ads back then. Any of the Founders that actually ran for office probably had all kinds of accusations leveled at them, typically all false.

But even if it were true, what does it have to do with the price of tea in China?

 

[RevRabbiJCG]

I got an email about this today and thought I would easily disprove it. I have friends who send me stuff and ask if it's for real. People this is for real. Here is a disclaimer copied from a book being sold on Amazon:

"2008 Wilder Publications

This book is a product of it's time and does not reflect the same values
as it would if it were written today. Parents might wish to discuss with
their children how views on race, gender, sexuality, ethnicity, and
interpersonal relations have changed since this book was written before
allowing them to read this classic work."

The name of the book?

The Constitution
The Declaration of Independence and
The Articles of Confederation

Now I understand that yes we have changed the way we think about many things, but this is taught in History classes. Anyone who wants to warn my kids about the Constitution of the United States won't see any dollars from my wallet.

Oh and here is the page on Amazon:

Amazon.com: The Constitution, The Declaration of Independence, and the Articles of Confederation (9781604592689): Books

Read it for yourself. I still can't believe it.

I always felt that the US Constitution, US Bill of Rights, was the whole basis and cornerstone is US law, and we all lived under it.
As an American citizen and not a "global citizen" I recognize the Constitution and the Bill of Rights only. There is no room for laws from other nations. Europe can go hang itself. And Cinco de Mayo can go back to Mexico.

 

[RevRabbiJCG]

.....Pretty sure that NOWHERE in there does it say , except gays.?

Hmmmmm, and nowhere in there does it say 'except for child molesters, or serial murderers, or confidence men, or reckless deep sea oil platform operators' either soooooo I guess by your line of 'reasoning' ALL of those are 'constitutionally protected' lifestyle choices ALSO??????

Do you not understand the difference between having rights and being a constitutionally protected lifestyle? Oh PS there is no such thing as a CON protected lifestyle. All laws that afford one class more protection than another class are IMO stupid and patently UNCON but because of idiots like you who believe that a person can be stripped of their legitimate CON rights on a whim they have been put in place..............


I'd suggest a remedial civics class for you.

I took Civics class all thoughout my formal school years. My teachers wanted us to know about US History. Even though in my Freshmen year in high school I aced European Heritage.
Nowadays, it seems that schools are wanting to make the future generations global citizens and not citizens of a particular nation. Liberals are trying to get children to hate the Founding Fathers in order to mold them into socialist monsters.

I go to WallBuilders | Presenting America's forgotten history and heroes, with an emphasis on our moral, religious, and constitutional heritage. for American History as it really is.

 

[RevRabbiJCG]

Hmmmmm for the first 200 years of the Constitution faggotry was routinely punished by Law. It still would be in most States except for usurpations by fed courts. Clearly the Founders intended no protections for queers.

Hey nranolife, apparently you're scared of a black president, because anything that isn't white, Christian, straight and conservative and in power makes you nervous.

By the way, ever heard of a thing called the Hellfire Club?

The Hellfire Club was a name for several exclusive clubs for high society rakes established in Britain and Ireland in the 18th century, and was more formally or cautiously known as the "Order of the Friars of St. Francis of Wycombe".[1] These clubs were rumoured to be the meeting places of "persons of quality"[2] who wished to take part in immoral acts, and the members were often very involved in politics. Neither the activities nor membership of the club are easy to ascertain.[3][4]

The very first Hellfire Club was founded in London in 1719, by Philip, Duke of Wharton and a handful of other high society friends.[5] The most infamous club associated with the name was established in England by Sir Francis Dashwood,[6] and met irregularly from around 1749 to around 1760, and possibly up until 1766.[7] Other clubs using the name "Hellfire Club" were set up throughout the 18th century. Most of these clubs were set up in Ireland after Wharton's were dispelled.[8]

The club motto was Fais ce que tu voudras (Do what thou wilt), a philosophy of life associated with François Rabelais' fictional abbey at Thélème[7][9] and later used by Aleister Crowley.

Most of the Founding Fathers were members.

You're gonna have to back this claim up!

"Most of the Founding Fathers were members"

Isn't that what liberals want folks to believe. That our Founding Fathers were, rich, white, deists who were gays?

Samuel Adams wasn't rich and he didn't own slaves. In fact, the Massachusetts state Constitution was written by devout Christians. Anyone who has more then 12 active brain cells could tell that 50 of the 55 signers were Christians and regularly attended church. They were avid Bible readers, for them to be closet gays is a slur against their charactor.

 

[JakeStarkey]

Liberals are trying to get children to hate the Founding Fathers in order to mold them into socialist monsters.

Hate? You are loon below the horizon on the far right.

 

[JakeStarkey]

RevRabbiJCG, let's get you right before you get left. Enough of the Christian dominationist nonsense.

Many of the Founders were Christian, yes. All on them were white. Several of them, prominently Jefferson and Franklin, were deist or polytheist. Allan and Paine certainly were not Christian, and I am not sure that Madison or Adams were what you would call Bible believing Christians. Many of the Founders were quite well off. Many of the Founders owned slaves or had owned slaves.

However, to serve, one had to play the game. For instance, to be a county commissioner in VA one had to be a member of the Anglican parish vestry in the county. So let's stay in reality, son.

 

[ConHog]

RevRabbiJCG, let's get you right before you get left. Enough of the Christian dominationist nonsense.

Many of the Founders were Christian, yes. All on them were white. Several of them, prominently Jefferson and Franklin, were deist or polytheist. Allan and Paine certainly were not Christian, and I am not sure that Madison or Adams were what you would call Bible believing Christians. Many of the Founders were quite well off. Many of the Founders owned slaves or had owned slaves.

However, to serve, one had to play the game. For instance, to be a county commissioner in VA one had to be a member of the Anglican parish vestry in the county. So let's stay in reality, son.

Not all of them, what about THIS guy for example?

Wentworth Cheswell - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[ABikerSailor]

Hey nranolife, apparently you're scared of a black president, because anything that isn't white, Christian, straight and conservative and in power makes you nervous.

By the way, ever heard of a thing called the Hellfire Club?



Most of the Founding Fathers were members.

You're gonna have to back this claim up!

"Most of the Founding Fathers were members"

Isn't that what liberals want folks to believe. That our Founding Fathers were, rich, white, deists who were gays?

Samuel Adams wasn't rich and he didn't own slaves. In fact, the Massachusetts state Constitution was written by devout Christians. Anyone who has more then 12 active brain cells could tell that 50 of the 55 signers were Christians and regularly attended church. They were avid Bible readers, for them to be closet gays is a slur against their charactor.

No fucking way that you could be a rabbi, that is, being as stupid as you are.

"Rav" means someone who knows stuff, apparently you don't.

The Hellfire Club wasn't gay.............think more along the lines of the lesbian bondage bar the GOP got caught at.

Try again asshole. By the way............closet much? You're the one bringing homosexuality to the table.

 

[SFC Ollie]

You're gonna have to back this claim up!

"Most of the Founding Fathers were members"

Isn't that what liberals want folks to believe. That our Founding Fathers were, rich, white, deists who were gays?

Samuel Adams wasn't rich and he didn't own slaves. In fact, the Massachusetts state Constitution was written by devout Christians. Anyone who has more then 12 active brain cells could tell that 50 of the 55 signers were Christians and regularly attended church. They were avid Bible readers, for them to be closet gays is a slur against their charactor.

No fucking way that you could be a rabbi, that is, being as stupid as you are.

"Rav" means someone who knows stuff, apparently you don't.

The Hellfire Club wasn't gay.............think more along the lines of the lesbian bondage bar the GOP got caught at.

Try again asshole. By the way............closet much? You're the one bringing homosexuality to the table.

And we are still awaiting any backup to this so far empty claim. We have all heard Franklin described as a rascal, and we know that Jefferson had kids with at least one of his slaves. But beyond that............

 

[JakeStarkey]

RevRabbiJCG, let's get you right before you get left. Enough of the Christian dominationist nonsense.

Many of the Founders were Christian, yes. All on them were white. Several of them, prominently Jefferson and Franklin, were deist or polytheist. Allan and Paine certainly were not Christian, and I am not sure that Madison or Adams were what you would call Bible believing Christians. Many of the Founders were quite well off. Many of the Founders owned slaves or had owned slaves.

However, to serve, one had to play the game. For instance, to be a county commissioner in VA one had to be a member of the Anglican parish vestry in the county. So let's stay in reality, son.

Not all of them, what about THIS guy for example?

Wentworth Cheswell - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Don't be an ass, son. The Founders mean the folks who were associated with the Constitution and the major political changes of the day. Cheswell, a small time player (and good for him anyway), is the exception that proves the rule. I mean it: don't be an ass again.

 

[Cecilie1200]

Country music and the speeches of Jefferson Davis could soon be taught in the nation's classrooms

By Guy Adams in Los Angeles

Sunday, 28 March 2010

Country music is an important modern cultural movement; hip-hop isn't. Thomas Jefferson deserves to be erased from a list of "great Americans", but Ronald Reagan doesn't. And we should re-evaluate Senator Joe McCarthy: he was almost certainly a national hero.

If you think that sounds like a quirky rewriting of American history with a right-wing twist, then you're not alone. But if the state of Texas gets its way, it'll be what teachers across the rest of the nation are required to tell their students.

In a move that has sparked controversy from coast to coast, together with a slew of headlines about the "Texas schoolbook massacre", the Lone Star state has just narrowly approved a series of conservative-minded alterations to its social studies curriculum.

The school board's decrees range from the surreal to the faintly sinister. One dictates that the Republican former House speaker Newt Gingrich should be studied. Another says that the speeches of Jefferson Davis, the slave-owning president of the Confederacy, should be taught alongside those of Abraham Lincoln. And the National Rifle Association should be praised for upholding the Constitution.

These and many other changes were approved by the board earlier this month, following three days of rancorous debate in Austin, the state capital. The vote of 15-5 in favour of the move was made entirely along party lines: every Republican on the committee approved them.

To the rest of America, the board's colourful right-wingery ought to be nothing more than a colourful sideshow. But the economics of the education industry mean otherwise: Texas is the biggest market for new teaching materials in the country, with 4.7 million schoolchildren, meaning that its curriculum influences the contents of textbooks nationwide.

Historians this week voiced concerns about the proposed revisions, many of which they have described as inaccurate. They are particularly angry that Jefferson's importance to the nation's founding fathers will in future be played down. That change to the curriculum was supported by evangelical Christians, who dislike Jefferson's support for the separation of church and state.

"The books that are altered to fit the [new] standards become the bestselling books, and therefore within the next two years they'll end up in other classrooms," Fritz Fischer, chairman of the National Council for History Education and a vociferous opponent of the changes, told The Washington Post. "It's not a partisan issue; it's a good history issue."

Elsewhere, the new curriculum allows teachers to treat country and western music as a significant cultural movement. But a move to add hip-hop to the same list was voted down by conservatives.

Students of Cold War history looking at McCarthyism must in future be told that the Verona papers, which documented communications between the Soviet Union and its spies, "confirmed suspicions of Communist infiltration in US government". In fact, historians are divided on whether this is really the case.

'Texas schoolbook massacre' rewrites American history - Americas, World - The Independent

Quick question.........what bothers you people more, the warning on the material of the Constitution, or the right wing assholes in Texas trying to re-write American history?

You have anything besides an opinion piece to support your argument?

I found this article in the New York Times and it doesn't mention erasing Jefferson from any list, as the opinion piece you provided has.

Texas Conservatives Win Vote on Textbook Standards - NYTimes.com

I'm not sure what the problem would be with covering the speeches of Jefferson Davis. Wouldn't that give students a clearer picture of the political situation during a a volatile and crucial time in our nation's history? Or is that what we were trying to avoid?

 

[Cecilie1200]

Isn't that what liberals want folks to believe. That our Founding Fathers were, rich, white, deists who were gays?

Samuel Adams wasn't rich and he didn't own slaves. In fact, the Massachusetts state Constitution was written by devout Christians. Anyone who has more then 12 active brain cells could tell that 50 of the 55 signers were Christians and regularly attended church. They were avid Bible readers, for them to be closet gays is a slur against their charactor.

No fucking way that you could be a rabbi, that is, being as stupid as you are.

"Rav" means someone who knows stuff, apparently you don't.

The Hellfire Club wasn't gay.............think more along the lines of the lesbian bondage bar the GOP got caught at.

Try again asshole. By the way............closet much? You're the one bringing homosexuality to the table.

And we are still awaiting any backup to this so far empty claim. We have all heard Franklin described as a rascal, and we know that Jefferson had kids with at least one of his slaves. But beyond that............

Actually, we can be pretty sure Jefferson DIDN'T have children with his slave. It would have been funny if it hadn't been so pathetic and exasperating, but the media touted the genetic study as "proving" Jefferson fathered her kids, and when you read the study, you find out that it EXONERATED him of the charge and incriminated one of his relatives, probably his idiot brother.

 

[JakeStarkey]

Cecilie1200, you do not know the story.

I noticed that a book study made by Fawn McKay Brodie, the UCLA historian, whose research in the plantation records reveal only one Jefferson (Thomas) male at the plantation nine months prior to the birth of each of the five children, was left out of the PBS study below.

A great review of the major discussions and points from the beginning to 2000 can be found at frontline: jefferson's blood: the history of a story | PBS

 

[Cecilie1200]

Cecilie1200, you do not know the story.

I noticed that a book study made by Fawn McKay Brodie, the UCLA historian, whose research in the plantation records reveal only one Jefferson (Thomas) male at the plantation nine months prior to the birth of each of the five children, was left out of the PBS study below.

A great review of the major discussions and points from the beginning to 2000 can be found at frontline: jefferson's blood: the history of a story | PBS

PBS? You're quoting fucking PBS at me? Shut the fuck up.

Background DNA Study Thomas Jefferson – Sally Hemings

Tell me again how I "don't know the story", dumbfuck.