WTF Is A Jobless Recovery?????

[The Rabbi]

I would disagree it is even adequate. But some of it will depend on what you see as his work.
Let's take the first case, that whatever he said is null and void on taking the presidential oath. OK, so his job is to deal with a serious recession and two wars. Those are the main problems.
He has made the recession worse and weakened the US economy through his actions. He has made us less able to wage war ("unlimited funds are the sinews of war," Cicero). He has increased control over the economy while limiting its ability to provide jobs and wealth.
In the wars he has let Iraq basically sit on auto-pilot from the Bush Administration. He has extended the deadline for withdrawal but thats it.
On Afghanistan he has dithered for months, after asking his hand picked military leader for recs. In the end he has chosen a strategy which seems guaranteed to fail: not as many troops as the commander said would be needed with a timetable designed to placate his own party but which will embolden the enemy.
So that's that count.
On the second case, that his success is implementing the policies he ran on, he is an abject failure. He has failed to close Gitmo, despite signing an order his first day in office. He has failed to bring a post-partisan atmosphere to Washington, instead making it the most partisan on record. He has failed to take control of any of the major legislation going through Congress, specifically health care reform and climate change. He has not reversed Dont Ask Dont Tell in the military. In fact, his administraiton argued for it in a court case recently.
So I don't see a metric by which you could judge him even adequate.

 

[Care4all]

Rabbi
How do you know he has made the recession worse....can you support this theory or opinion of yours with any kind of fact?

I don't see how any one can determine such, without it being just speculation or opinion....?

if you have some good analysis or facts that can legitimately back that up, I would love to see them.

 

[uscitizen]

What other choice do they have Care. After all it could not have been the party of personal repsonsibility's fault?

 

[The Rabbi]

Rabbi
How do you know he has made the recession worse....can you support this theory or opinion of yours with any kind of fact?

I don't see how any one can determine such, without it being just speculation or opinion....?

if you have some good analysis or facts that can legitimately back that up, I would love to see them.

You're joking, right? Do you think the president's policies and laws that have been passed have no effect on the economy? In what universe?

But if you want some proof, here it is:
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748704431804574541471162110460.html

 

[Toro]

l

Basically, when productivity increases, jobs decrease....

Yeah, Marx pointed that out a long time ago....

So did the Luddites.

They were both wrong.

Since the past two centuries have essentially been one long march of technological progress, if this were true, nobody would be employed.

 

[Toro]

link to jobless recovery under president bush's very small recession in 2001...the article is from 2003, and explains a great deal....

Basically, when productivity increases, jobs decrease....

Bush's Jobless Recovery

Bush’s Jobless Economic Recovery: Workers Pay Price for Productivity – Forward.com

Several differences you didn't pay attention to.

Bush's recovery period saw 8.2% increase in productivity. Also, the loss of jobs only amounted to 2 million in the time period of 2001-2003. Over 2 years.

Obama's increase in productivity was reported at 3.5% but was later re-adjusted to 2.9% and his job loss in only 6 months was over 6 million. This shows panic layoffs because of the uncertainty the Obama Administration presents. His initial anti-business programs are the cause of the fear that's in the economy. Nobody wants to take any chances because of the insane actions of the current administration.

The economy is on weaker ground then it was back in 2003 because of all of the facts I've presented. But even during stronger numbers the author of the article found plenty to find wrong with it. So I wouldn't start doing cartwheels if I were you.

The idea that the Obama administration caused 6 million layoffs is utter nonsense. His policies may be inhibiting companies from hiring employees back as they are creating uncertainty. But you have absolutely no idea what was happening over the past few years if you think the layoffs can be attributed to Obama.

Likewise, Bush nor his policies caused the layoffs of 2 million people.

One should not listen to people who pay too much attention to politics when they are discussing the economy.

 

[Toro]

No they didnt actually. When the subprime loans blew up I figured this could be contained. When other derivatives started to go bad I figured the banking industry was in for a bad time. When Bush announced steps to shore up the banks so they would resume lending to each other, I was pretty sure we would be out of it soon.
When Bush extended TARP to cover the auto makers, despite a nay vote in Congress, I figured things were looking bad and it might take longer to recover.
When Obama proposed his "stimulus" that was supposed to keep the jobless rate under 8% I knew we were being had. And with each proposal to come out of teh WH and the leftist Congress I knew things were going to get worse and worse. And they have. I don't see real recovery until after the 11/2010 elections when the GOP regains enough seats to become a force in government again and block the rest of his stupid nonsense.

And I was actively betting against the economy because I did not believe that the subprime problem could be contained.

The housing bubble is perhaps the biggest bubble this nation has ever seen, which ran much, much deeper than subprime mortgages. It was and remains incredibly naive to believe that we weren't/aren't going to go through significant pain to restructure the enormous excesses of the past decade.

 

[☭proletarian☭]

l

Basically, when productivity increases, jobs decrease....

Yeah, Marx pointed that out a long time ago....

So did the Luddites.

They were both wrong.

Since the past two centuries have essentially been one long march of technological progress, if this were true, nobody would be employed.

Very few are employed in the markets/fields that saw the most changed during the Industrial Revolution. The loss of jobs in area A (for instance, people with hammers being replaced by machines at the knife company) must be compared to new openings in other areas (for instance, the development of the hedge fund market that helped screw us all over in their Keynesian delusion).

 

[Toronado3800]

Mr. Boskin is a professor of economics at Stanford University and a senior fellow at the Hoover Institution. He chaired the Council of Economic Advisers under President George H.W. Bush.

Michael Boskin: An Alternative Stimulus Plan - WSJ.com

huh, go figure this guy has the opinion a tax cut costs less than an equal spending increase.

 

[blu]

jobs come last. first companies enter recovery with old customers coming back, new customers coming, and existing customers needing more and more work. Once this happen there is a need for more employees to handle the load which brings unemployment down. Until companies start to see a steady stream of business again unemployment will not go away

 

[Polk]

Your math is different from my math. Going to the BLS database, for all employees, total nonfarm seasonally adjusted, the number of nonfarm payroll jobs in January was 134,333,000 and the preliminary number for November is 130,996,000 which is a difference of 3.3 million, which, last I checked is not over 6 million.

Now, if you want to switch to total employed (including the self employed, domestic workers etc) that's from the Current Population Survey and the change from Jan-Nov was -3.6 million

Where on earth are you getting "over 6 million" from?

He's using that new special Math for GOP Watercarriers, which also features a mode where people working part-time who would rather be working full-time are counted as not having jobs at all.

You've got alot of nerve saying that.

The CBO showed the White House is notorious for using Fuzzy Math.

Fact is....temporary work programs are not a long term solution. Saying a temporary contract with a private firm is creating or saving jobs is misleading. What happens when the money runs out in a few months? Saying that overtime is counted as another worker thus another job is fuzzy math.

Using the term "Created or Saved" is not fooling anyone. Nobody can say for sure if you saved a job. Yet this White House feels it can get away with lumping created and saved together to pad their stats.

So jump off dude.

I've got a lot of nerve for calling your lies what they are? You think you can just claim something and it instantly becomes true. Claim unemployment is twenty percent? Then it's a fact, because obviously if you feel that way, it must be true. It's as if you people don't believe in the existence of objective reality.

 

[Polk]

I Remember the "Sky is Falling" Left as the Economy Suffered the 6.4% Unemployment Rate of the Post 9/11 and Clinton/algore Recession Period when (43) Took over...

Hypocrisy, thy name is Mal. This recession is Obama's fault, according to you, and yet similar performance under Bush was Clinton's fault. I can understand why you talk so much about personal responsibility. It's easy to "responsible" when every time you fuck up, it's really someone else's fault.

 

[Polk]

Rabbi
How do you know he has made the recession worse....can you support this theory or opinion of yours with any kind of fact?

I don't see how any one can determine such, without it being just speculation or opinion....?

if you have some good analysis or facts that can legitimately back that up, I would love to see them.

He can't. He doesn't like Obama, so he "feels" Obama has made things worse. And for conservatives, feelings are what matters.

 

[uscitizen]

True right wingers do tend to be an emo bunch.

 

[Charles Stucker]

We keep hearing all of this talk about "A Jobless Recovery".

Somebody explain to me how losing jobs by the millions spells R.E.C.O.V.E.R.Y???.

Congress is to Recovery as Stalin is to Liberty.
Or did I get that backwards?

 

[The Rabbi]

Rabbi
How do you know he has made the recession worse....can you support this theory or opinion of yours with any kind of fact?

I don't see how any one can determine such, without it being just speculation or opinion....?

if you have some good analysis or facts that can legitimately back that up, I would love to see them.

He can't. He doesn't like Obama, so he "feels" Obama has made things worse. And for conservatives, feelings are what matters.

Except I provided the proof. Guess you're wrong. Again.

 

[mudwhistle]

link to jobless recovery under president bush's very small recession in 2001...the article is from 2003, and explains a great deal....

Basically, when productivity increases, jobs decrease....

Bush's Jobless Recovery

Bush’s Jobless Economic Recovery: Workers Pay Price for Productivity – Forward.com

Several differences you didn't pay attention to.

Bush's recovery period saw 8.2% increase in productivity. Also, the loss of jobs only amounted to 2 million in the time period of 2001-2003. Over 2 years.

Obama's increase in productivity was reported at 3.5% but was later re-adjusted to 2.9% and his job loss in only 6 months was over 6 million. This shows panic layoffs because of the uncertainty the Obama Administration presents. His initial anti-business programs are the cause of the fear that's in the economy. Nobody wants to take any chances because of the insane actions of the current administration.

The economy is on weaker ground then it was back in 2003 because of all of the facts I've presented. But even during stronger numbers the author of the article found plenty to find wrong with it. So I wouldn't start doing cartwheels if I were you.

The idea that the Obama administration caused 6 million layoffs is utter nonsense. His policies may be inhibiting companies from hiring employees back as they are creating uncertainty. But you have absolutely no idea what was happening over the past few years if you think the layoffs can be attributed to Obama.

Likewise, Bush nor his policies caused the layoffs of 2 million people.

One should not listen to people who pay too much attention to politics when they are discussing the economy.

Wrong....Bush entered office in the middle of a Recession....then 9/11 happened and it only made things worse. Usually there is a slight dip in the economy whenever a new President enters office anyway.

However, when Obama entered office he was claiming that this was the worst economy since the Great Depression. Couple that with his talk of "Spreading the Wealth" which is code for tax increases for businesses.....companies laid off millions to prepare for the inevitable.

One thing you can count on when Democrats take power....that they will spend and they will raise our taxes. Seems voters keep forgetting that absolute fact.

This Administration does nothing but lie to us every day. Their takeover of GM and Chrysler caused fear to a level this country hasn't seen in over 70 years. They are overtly hostile to business so the natural reaction of business owners is not to trust them. So they are waiting for this climate to change...and making sure they have capital to survive whatever this Administration throws at them.

 

[Toro]

Wrong....Bush entered office in the middle of a Recession....then 9/11 happened and it only made things worse. Usually there is a slight dip in the economy whenever a new President enters office anyway.

However, when Obama entered office he was claiming that this was the worst economy since the Great Depression. Couple that with his talk of "Spreading the Wealth" which is code for tax increases for businesses.....companies laid off millions to prepare for the inevitable.

One thing you can count on when Democrats take power....that they will spend and they will raise our taxes. Seems voters keep forgetting that absolute fact.

This Administration does nothing but lie to us every day. Their takeover of GM and Chrysler caused fear to a level this country hasn't seen in over 70 years. They are overtly hostile to business so the natural reaction of business owners is not to trust them. So they are waiting for this climate to change...and making sure they have capital to survive whatever this Administration throws at them.

This is silly. You are demonstrating exactly my point. You aren't even getting simple facts straight.

First, Bush did not enter office in the "middle" of a recession. The recession began in March 2001.

Business Cycle Expansions and Contractions

This is defined as "before," not "middle."

If you bother to look at that link, you will also see that the recession ended in November 2001, two months after 9/11. So we know 9/11 had minimal effect.

Third, this recession started in December 2007, 14 months before Obama was sworn into office. The index of leading economic indicators started forecasting a recession in July 2007.

http://www.conference-board.org/pdf_free/economics/bci/USLEIpr_1109.pdf

Bush did not cause the 2001 recession, and Obama did not cause this one. If one believes that Obama caused this recession, one is either ignorant or an idiot. Its okay to be ignorant since we can't know everything and that person clearly has no idea how the economy was structured earlier this decade, with an enormous and unsustainable build-up in debt, inflating housing prices leading to perhaps the biggest bubble the world has ever seen. But if one keeps arguing this point, one is an idiot.

 

[mudwhistle]

Wrong....Bush entered office in the middle of a Recession....then 9/11 happened and it only made things worse. Usually there is a slight dip in the economy whenever a new President enters office anyway.

However, when Obama entered office he was claiming that this was the worst economy since the Great Depression. Couple that with his talk of "Spreading the Wealth" which is code for tax increases for businesses.....companies laid off millions to prepare for the inevitable.

One thing you can count on when Democrats take power....that they will spend and they will raise our taxes. Seems voters keep forgetting that absolute fact.

This Administration does nothing but lie to us every day. Their takeover of GM and Chrysler caused fear to a level this country hasn't seen in over 70 years. They are overtly hostile to business so the natural reaction of business owners is not to trust them. So they are waiting for this climate to change...and making sure they have capital to survive whatever this Administration throws at them.

This is silly. You are demonstrating exactly my point. You aren't even getting simple facts straight.

First, Bush did not enter office in the "middle" of a recession. The recession began in March 2001.

Business Cycle Expansions and Contractions

This is defined as "before," not "middle."

If you bother to look at that link, you will also see that the recession ended in November 2001, two months after 9/11. So we know 9/11 had minimal effect.

Third, this recession started in December 2007, 14 months before Obama was sworn into office. The index of leading economic indicators started forecasting a recession in July 2007.

http://www.conference-board.org/pdf_free/economics/bci/USLEIpr_1109.pdf

Bush did not cause the 2001 recession, and Obama did not cause this one. If one believes that Obama caused this recession, one is either ignorant or an idiot. Its okay to be ignorant since we can't know everything and that person clearly has no idea how the economy was structured earlier this decade, with an enormous and unsustainable build-up in debt, inflating housing prices leading to perhaps the biggest bubble the world has ever seen. But if one keeps arguing this point, one is an idiot.

You need to get your story straight. Ether Bush caused "The Worst Economy Since The Great Depression" during his 8 years or he didn't. Make up your fucken mind.

The Recession during Bush's first term started in 1999.



Obama didn't cause this recession by himself.....he had help.

His policies are making it worse.


Secondly....who owned Congress in December of 07'.

That is the answer to what caused this Recession.

 

[mal]

WTF is a Chinese Downhill?!?!



peace...