WTF Is A Jobless Recovery?????

[☭proletarian☭]

Do they track the mean real income (purchasing power) of nations' citizenry? That'd probably be most useful of all

 

[Toronado3800]

true. It takes a little higher income in Japan to have the estimated same standard of living compared to Missouri.

 

[pinqy]

Obama's ... job loss in only 6 months was over 6 million.

Your math is different from my math. Going to the BLS database, for all employees, total nonfarm seasonally adjusted, the number of nonfarm payroll jobs in January was 134,333,000 and the preliminary number for November is 130,996,000 which is a difference of 3.3 million, which, last I checked is not over 6 million.

Now, if you want to switch to total employed (including the self employed, domestic workers etc) that's from the Current Population Survey and the change from Jan-Nov was -3.6 million

Where on earth are you getting "over 6 million" from?

 

[uscitizen]

Do they track the mean real income (purchasing power) of nations' citizenry? That'd probably be most useful of all

It is tracked but rarely emphasised to the public.

That has been dropping for a number of years. Only thing kept it from getting a lot worse was cheap Chinese imports. Then $4 gas came anlong and started things sliding downhill at a faster rate.

 

[uscitizen]

l

Basically, when productivity increases, jobs decrease....

Yeah, Marx pointed that out a long time ago....

Actually employment or employee pay dropping will cause an increase in productivity.
Which most working class americans still think is a good thing nationally.

 

[☭proletarian☭]

increases in efficiency, driven by technological development, increase production while reducing employment

 

[☭proletarian☭]

Obama's ... job loss in only 6 months was over 6 million.

Your math is different from my math. Going to the BLS database, for all employees, total nonfarm seasonally adjusted, the number of nonfarm payroll jobs in January was 134,333,000 and the preliminary number for November is 130,996,000 which is a difference of 3.3 million, which, last I checked is not over 6 million.

Now, if you want to switch to total employed (including the self employed, domestic workers etc) that's from the Current Population Survey and the change from Jan-Nov was -3.6 million

Where on earth are you getting "over 6 million" from?

he was thinking of dead jew lies, maybe?

 

[☭proletarian☭]

Do they track the mean real income (purchasing power) of nations' citizenry? That'd probably be most useful of all

It is tracked but rarely emphasised to the public.

That has been dropping for a number of years. Only thing kept it from getting a lot worse was cheap Chinese imports. Then $4 gas came anlong and started things sliding downhill at a faster rate.

1)where can these stats be found?

2)is purchasing power limited to locally available merchandise?

 

[uscitizen]

Do they track the mean real income (purchasing power) of nations' citizenry? That'd probably be most useful of all

It is tracked but rarely emphasised to the public.

That has been dropping for a number of years. Only thing kept it from getting a lot worse was cheap Chinese imports. Then $4 gas came anlong and started things sliding downhill at a faster rate.

1)where can these stats be found?

2)is purchasing power limited to locally available merchandise?

I have seen them posted from time to time on various news sites.
And I have no real idea on the local thing. I however suspect that the stats do not properly take into account cost of living variables in different areas. I Think all I ever saw were overal national figurees.

 

[Polk]

link to jobless recovery under president bush's very small recession in 2001...the article is from 2003, and explains a great deal....

Basically, when productivity increases, jobs decrease....

Bush's Jobless Recovery

Bush’s Jobless Economic Recovery: Workers Pay Price for Productivity – Forward.com

Several differences you didn't pay attention to.

Bush's recovery period saw 8.2% increase in productivity. Also, the loss of jobs only amounted to 2 million in the time period of 2001-2003. Over 2 years.

Obama's increase in productivity was reported at 3.5% but was later re-adjusted to 2.9% and his job loss in only 6 months was over 6 million.

You're talking about GDP numbers, not productivity. The productivity figure was 8.1 percent.
Productivity revised down, still best in 6 years - MarketWatch

 

[Polk]

Obama's ... job loss in only 6 months was over 6 million.

Your math is different from my math. Going to the BLS database, for all employees, total nonfarm seasonally adjusted, the number of nonfarm payroll jobs in January was 134,333,000 and the preliminary number for November is 130,996,000 which is a difference of 3.3 million, which, last I checked is not over 6 million.

Now, if you want to switch to total employed (including the self employed, domestic workers etc) that's from the Current Population Survey and the change from Jan-Nov was -3.6 million

Where on earth are you getting "over 6 million" from?

He's using that new special Math for GOP Watercarriers, which also features a mode where people working part-time who would rather be working full-time are counted as not having jobs at all.

 

[mudwhistle]

link to jobless recovery under president bush's very small recession in 2001...the article is from 2003, and explains a great deal....

Basically, when productivity increases, jobs decrease....

Bush's Jobless Recovery

Bush’s Jobless Economic Recovery: Workers Pay Price for Productivity – Forward.com

Several differences you didn't pay attention to.

Bush's recovery period saw 8.2% increase in productivity. Also, the loss of jobs only amounted to 2 million in the time period of 2001-2003. Over 2 years.

Obama's increase in productivity was reported at 3.5% but was later re-adjusted to 2.9% and his job loss in only 6 months was over 6 million.

You're talking about GDP numbers, not productivity. The productivity figure was 8.1 percent.
Productivity revised down, still best in 6 years - MarketWatch

OK.

You're arguing over a stat that can be considered to be a negative dependent on the conditions.

Productivity is defined as real output divided by hours worked. Productivity gains if the benefits are shared can be the key to higher living standards, higher wages, increased profits and low inflation.

However if less are working less are sharing in the benefit.

Also squeezing more out of the employees that remain may increase productivity but fewer hours are worked and less income earned.

Everyone seems to be working harder. I've worked in a factory. Under normal conditions repetitive motions wear you down and cause serious health concerns. Now it's getting worse because more work has to be done by less and less workers.

Great fucken news!!!!!!!!!!


Now....what about all of those lost jobs?

 

[The Rabbi]

increases in efficiency, driven by technological development, increase production while reducing employment

Which is bullshit. Increases in agricultural efficiency reduced employment...in that industry. But it did not reduce overall employment. In fact it increased it.

 

[mudwhistle]

Obama's ... job loss in only 6 months was over 6 million.

Your math is different from my math. Going to the BLS database, for all employees, total nonfarm seasonally adjusted, the number of nonfarm payroll jobs in January was 134,333,000 and the preliminary number for November is 130,996,000 which is a difference of 3.3 million, which, last I checked is not over 6 million.

Now, if you want to switch to total employed (including the self employed, domestic workers etc) that's from the Current Population Survey and the change from Jan-Nov was -3.6 million

Where on earth are you getting "over 6 million" from?

He's using that new special Math for GOP Watercarriers, which also features a mode where people working part-time who would rather be working full-time are counted as not having jobs at all.

You've got alot of nerve saying that.

The CBO showed the White House is notorious for using Fuzzy Math.

Fact is....temporary work programs are not a long term solution. Saying a temporary contract with a private firm is creating or saving jobs is misleading. What happens when the money runs out in a few months? Saying that overtime is counted as another worker thus another job is fuzzy math.

Using the term "Created or Saved" is not fooling anyone. Nobody can say for sure if you saved a job. Yet this White House feels it can get away with lumping created and saved together to pad their stats.

So jump off dude.

 

[mal]

We keep hearing all of this talk about "A Jobless Recovery".

Somebody explain to me how losing jobs by the millions spells R.E.C.O.V.E.R.Y???

For three years the Democrats tried to convince us how bad the economy was. 4 years ago the economy was churning. Back then job growth was good, productivity was up, inflation was in check, earnings were up....yet for the last 3 years the Dems told us the economy was fucked up. Now Obama wants to tell us that the Recession is over.

They've been extending Unemployment benefits for almost 4 years I think in anticipation of what they planned on doing. Which was spending us into massive debt and taxing us into oblivion.

Allen Greenspan said this morning on Meet The Press that what effects job growth more then just about anything is uncertainty.

Employers want to stay in business but this administration gives them every indication that their profits are going to be taken away. Being successful will result in punishment from the government. So what we are left with is fear in the marketplace.

Nobody in their right mind would expand or start a business in today's climate. ....As a result jobs are being lost in record numbers.

Explain to me how that can be called a recovery.

What I think is this....Democrats spend their careers throwing out crazy ideas hoping that the GOP will object to it. They use wedge-issues to divide us. When they finally get into power they spend like a sailor in a Mexican whorehouse. They screw everything up that they touch and blame it on the opposition. When they lose power they do everything in their power to prevent progress. They know the opposition will try to do the right thing so they just wait until the problems they caused are fixed then go back to screwing everything up again.

This is the dilemma we are faced with. A political party that is not an honest broker. They have no intention of solving problems in this country because it doesn't help them when they do. Their platform is based on entitlements, stupid causes like saving Polar Bears, helping little babies once their born with health care [yet killing them in the womb with taxpayer funds]. Saving the planet even if it bankrupts all of us.

The welfare of Americans isn't in their plans. That is why they talk about a "Jobless Recovery" like it's a good thing. If you have a good job and productive lives you won't need them anymore. You're liable to vote for the GOP to hang on to your pay rather then give it to them so they can spend it on their silly causes.

I Remember the "Sky is Falling" Left as the Economy Suffered the 6.4% Unemployment Rate of the Post 9/11 and Clinton/algore Recession Period when (43) Took over...

It was ALL BAD, ALL the Time... Forget that for the Bulk of (43)'s 8 Years it was about 5%.

Now 10%+ and Spending that Makes (43) Look like he was Ron Paul for what he did, and the Left couldn't be Happier...

They even Like Expanding the Military Industrial Complex these Days...

Interesting Times, in Deed.



peace...

 

[mudwhistle]

We keep hearing all of this talk about "A Jobless Recovery".

Somebody explain to me how losing jobs by the millions spells R.E.C.O.V.E.R.Y???

For three years the Democrats tried to convince us how bad the economy was. 4 years ago the economy was churning. Back then job growth was good, productivity was up, inflation was in check, earnings were up....yet for the last 3 years the Dems told us the economy was fucked up. Now Obama wants to tell us that the Recession is over.

They've been extending Unemployment benefits for almost 4 years I think in anticipation of what they planned on doing. Which was spending us into massive debt and taxing us into oblivion.

Allen Greenspan said this morning on Meet The Press that what effects job growth more then just about anything is uncertainty.

Employers want to stay in business but this administration gives them every indication that their profits are going to be taken away. Being successful will result in punishment from the government. So what we are left with is fear in the marketplace.

Nobody in their right mind would expand or start a business in today's climate. ....As a result jobs are being lost in record numbers.

Explain to me how that can be called a recovery.

What I think is this....Democrats spend their careers throwing out crazy ideas hoping that the GOP will object to it. They use wedge-issues to divide us. When they finally get into power they spend like a sailor in a Mexican whorehouse. They screw everything up that they touch and blame it on the opposition. When they lose power they do everything in their power to prevent progress. They know the opposition will try to do the right thing so they just wait until the problems they caused are fixed then go back to screwing everything up again.

This is the dilemma we are faced with. A political party that is not an honest broker. They have no intention of solving problems in this country because it doesn't help them when they do. Their platform is based on entitlements, stupid causes like saving Polar Bears, helping little babies once their born with health care [yet killing them in the womb with taxpayer funds]. Saving the planet even if it bankrupts all of us.

The welfare of Americans isn't in their plans. That is why they talk about a "Jobless Recovery" like it's a good thing. If you have a good job and productive lives you won't need them anymore. You're liable to vote for the GOP to hang on to your pay rather then give it to them so they can spend it on their silly causes.

I Remember the "Sky is Falling" Left as the Economy Suffered the 6.4% Unemployment Rate of the Post 9/11 and Clinton/algore Recession Period when (43) Took over...

It was ALL BAD, ALL the Time... Forget that for the Bulk of (43)'s 8 Years it was about 5%.

Now 10%+ and Spending that Makes (43) Look like he was Ron Paul for what he did, and the Left couldn't be Happier...

They even Like Expanding the Military Industrial Complex these Days...

Interesting Times, in Deed.



peace...

The loss of millions upon millions of jobs is a minor irritant.

The parties are still going on at the White House.

Obama hasn't felt this Recession in the least. He's still living it up like no president before him.

I would like to see the expense account numbers for this President in comparison to others before him. I don't think he feels we are really as bad off as we were led to believe..otherwise he wouldn't be partying his ass off at every opportunity.

So real people are suffering from real hardship today.....and the President is sipping booze with Mary J Blige and rubbing elbows with hundreds of other celebrities. They don't seem to be upset at all!!!!!!

 

[mal]

We keep hearing all of this talk about "A Jobless Recovery".

Somebody explain to me how losing jobs by the millions spells R.E.C.O.V.E.R.Y???

For three years the Democrats tried to convince us how bad the economy was. 4 years ago the economy was churning. Back then job growth was good, productivity was up, inflation was in check, earnings were up....yet for the last 3 years the Dems told us the economy was fucked up. Now Obama wants to tell us that the Recession is over.

They've been extending Unemployment benefits for almost 4 years I think in anticipation of what they planned on doing. Which was spending us into massive debt and taxing us into oblivion.

Allen Greenspan said this morning on Meet The Press that what effects job growth more then just about anything is uncertainty.

Employers want to stay in business but this administration gives them every indication that their profits are going to be taken away. Being successful will result in punishment from the government. So what we are left with is fear in the marketplace.

Nobody in their right mind would expand or start a business in today's climate. ....As a result jobs are being lost in record numbers.

Explain to me how that can be called a recovery.

What I think is this....Democrats spend their careers throwing out crazy ideas hoping that the GOP will object to it. They use wedge-issues to divide us. When they finally get into power they spend like a sailor in a Mexican whorehouse. They screw everything up that they touch and blame it on the opposition. When they lose power they do everything in their power to prevent progress. They know the opposition will try to do the right thing so they just wait until the problems they caused are fixed then go back to screwing everything up again.

This is the dilemma we are faced with. A political party that is not an honest broker. They have no intention of solving problems in this country because it doesn't help them when they do. Their platform is based on entitlements, stupid causes like saving Polar Bears, helping little babies once their born with health care [yet killing them in the womb with taxpayer funds]. Saving the planet even if it bankrupts all of us.

The welfare of Americans isn't in their plans. That is why they talk about a "Jobless Recovery" like it's a good thing. If you have a good job and productive lives you won't need them anymore. You're liable to vote for the GOP to hang on to your pay rather then give it to them so they can spend it on their silly causes.

I Remember the "Sky is Falling" Left as the Economy Suffered the 6.4% Unemployment Rate of the Post 9/11 and Clinton/algore Recession Period when (43) Took over...

It was ALL BAD, ALL the Time... Forget that for the Bulk of (43)'s 8 Years it was about 5%.

Now 10%+ and Spending that Makes (43) Look like he was Ron Paul for what he did, and the Left couldn't be Happier...

They even Like Expanding the Military Industrial Complex these Days...

Interesting Times, in Deed.



peace...

The loss of millions upon millions of jobs is a minor irritant.

The parties are still going on at the White House.

Obama hasn't felt this Recession in the least. He's still living it up like no president before him.

I would like to see the expense account numbers for this President in comparison to others before him. I don't think he feels we are really as bad off as we were led to believe..otherwise he wouldn't be partying his ass off at every opportunity.

So real people are suffering from real hardship today.....and the President is sipping booze with Mary J Blige and rubbing elbows with hundreds of other celebrities. They don't seem to be upset at all!!!!!!

And this is why Barry will be the WORST President Not since Carter, but Worse than Carter...

At least Carter was a Humble President in the Face of his Misery Index.

He even Downgraded Air Force One, if my Memory Serves me.

Barry is Dancing on his Party's Politcal Grave at these Events...

"Hope" he is Enjoying it while it Lasts.



peace...

 

[pinqy]

You've got alot of nerve saying that.

The CBO showed the White House is notorious for using Fuzzy Math.

Fact is....temporary work programs are not a long term solution. Saying a temporary contract with a private firm is creating or saving jobs is misleading. What happens when the money runs out in a few months? Saying that overtime is counted as another worker thus another job is fuzzy math.

Using the term "Created or Saved" is not fooling anyone. Nobody can say for sure if you saved a job. Yet this White House feels it can get away with lumping created and saved together to pad their stats.

So jump off dude.

I'm sorry, I missed in all that where you got the "over 6 million" figure from. And I wasn't citing figures from the White House, but from the Bureau of Labor Statistics, whose commissioner is a Bush appointee.

 

[The Rabbi]

I Remember the "Sky is Falling" Left as the Economy Suffered the 6.4% Unemployment Rate of the Post 9/11 and Clinton/algore Recession Period when (43) Took over...

It was ALL BAD, ALL the Time... Forget that for the Bulk of (43)'s 8 Years it was about 5%.

Now 10%+ and Spending that Makes (43) Look like he was Ron Paul for what he did, and the Left couldn't be Happier...

They even Like Expanding the Military Industrial Complex these Days...

Interesting Times, in Deed.



peace...

The loss of millions upon millions of jobs is a minor irritant.

The parties are still going on at the White House.

Obama hasn't felt this Recession in the least. He's still living it up like no president before him.

I would like to see the expense account numbers for this President in comparison to others before him. I don't think he feels we are really as bad off as we were led to believe..otherwise he wouldn't be partying his ass off at every opportunity.

So real people are suffering from real hardship today.....and the President is sipping booze with Mary J Blige and rubbing elbows with hundreds of other celebrities. They don't seem to be upset at all!!!!!!

And this is why Barry will be the WORST President Not since Carter, but Worse than Carter...

At least Carter was a Humble President in the Face of his Misery Index.

He even Downgraded Air Force One, if my Memory Serves me.

Barry is Dancing on his Party's Politcal Grave at these Events...

"Hope" he is Enjoying it while it Lasts.



peace...

I would say based on his performance so far he is the worst president ever. And that includes Warren Harding.

 

[Toronado3800]

I would say based on his performance so far he is the worst president ever. And that includes Warren Harding.

I would say this is a fair opinion based statement but it will take awhile to see how things play out.

From my point of view he's been doing adequate but uninspired work.

Example: A decision to "withdraw" from Iraq looks great as the insurgents lay relatively low waiting for our boys to depart before overthrowing the government. If the Iraqi government is overthrown a week, a year, or whenever after we leave its a possible mistake. If our installed government turns non-sympathetic it could be thought of as a mistake. Point is, we won't know for awhile.