Would you support...

[Unkotare]

I hate to say it, but it's more beneficial to have them here 'illegally.' That way, when you think they're up to no good, there's no lengthy and costly due process or burden of proof involved... They are here illegally after all... So see ya....

Except it doesn't work that way. They still have the right to due process. That's why it's best to prevent illegal immigration in the first place.

 

[Cuyo]

I hate to say it, but it's more beneficial to have them here 'illegally.' That way, when you think they're up to no good, there's no lengthy and costly due process or burden of proof involved... They are here illegally after all... So see ya....

Except it doesn't work that way. They still have the right to due process. That's why it's best to prevent illegal immigration in the first place.

Due process for incarceration, absolutely. For deportation, only their illegal immigrant status must be shown.

Illegal immigration could be stopped lock stock and barrel if we really wanted it stopped. Very quickly and very easily. But we don't.

 

[Unkotare]

"Very quickly and very easily" is grossly overstating it.

 

[Cuyo]

"Very quickly and very easily" is grossly overstating it.

Disagree. Remove the incentive, reverse the condition. Instantly.

Now the short and long term economic fallout of doing so is another topic entirely...

But the topic is Dave's goofy proposal, which he hasn't demonstrated accomplishes any of the things he posits. Did you vote?

 

[MeBelle]

-Making the use of Everify mandatory by all employers

-Making the punishment for hiring illegals more severe

E-Verify would not stop someone from hiring illegals when stolen identities are being used.

 

[Unkotare]

"Very quickly and very easily" is grossly overstating it.

Disagree. Remove the incentive, reverse the condition. Instantly.

Only a simpleton tries to pretend something complicated is simple, just so he can strop trying to think about it anymore.

 

[Socio]

Illegal immigrants are to immigration what shoplifters are to shopping. The immigrants who went through the legal process by the numbers are the ones getting screwed.

They are not the only ones, US tax payers are also getting screwed to the tune of billions of dollar a year just to allow them to exist within US borders.

US school children are getting screwed with overcrowded schools and forced bi-lingual classes which inhibits learning for all.

The US middle class is getting screwed by the driving down of wages by them and the increased taxes to pay for them to the point where procreation has had to be traded for maintaining quality of life.

The 25 million or so unemployed US workers are being screwed because some 11-20+ million illegal immigrants are gainfully employed at jobs they should not have, jobs the US workers could/should be doing.

 

[Cuyo]

"Very quickly and very easily" is grossly overstating it.

Disagree. Remove the incentive, reverse the condition. Instantly.

Only a simpleton tries to pretend something complicated is simple, just so he can strop trying to think about it anymore.

Hmm. Yes. I suppose you're suggesting that's me.

It's complicated because of the implications for our economic system; The part you intentionally left out of your quote of my last post; along with everything else germane to the OP's topic, as you lasered in on something you saw as easy to attack. My guess is you just want to be problematic no matter what.

That's fine, you clearly just want to be obtuse with me, so forget I asked.

 

[daveman]

And to hell with what's best for American citizens.

Well, there would be a certain justice in that since, for the better part of a century, the USA has said To Hell With What Is Best for Guatemala, Nicaragua, Panama, Colombia, Venezuela, Haiti, Dominican Republic, Grenada, Cuba, Peru, Paraguay, Brazil, Argentina, Chile, Iran, Vietnam, Laos, Cambodia, Indonesia, Pacific Islands Trust Territory, Philippines, Okinawa, Diego Garcia, Egypt, Libya, Sudan, Congo, South Africa, Somalia, Yemen, Iraq, Afghanistan, Russia, China, Yugoslavia....
.

Not real clear on the concept that I should put the concerns of individual Peruvians above my own. Maybe you can feel guilty about the EEEEVIL USA enough for both of us.

 

[daveman]

Illegal immigrants already can't vote by the metric used to declare that resident aliens can't; and any tax evasion that results from their presence is perpetrated by the employer.

Illegal aliens can't vote? Because they have to show proof of citizenship?

Oh, wait -- your site hates that idea.

Meanwhile, in the real world, illegals DO vote:

How many noncitizens are registered to vote? | Las Vegas Review-Journal

Complaint Filed over Illegal Alien Voters | FrontPage Magazine

5000 illegal aliens voted in election last November :: Northern Colorado Gazette

Believe it or not, I don't lose sleep wondering what you're going to say next.

Wow... You're a dick!

I guess I missed the part in the TOS that says I need to breathlessly follow your every post.

I'm curious why you think you're entitled to that...?

In any event, if they're voting via fraud, there is nothing that will prevent your "Permanent residents" from doing exactly the same thing. In that context, there is *NO* benefit to your proposal.

There is, actually: Voter ID. But the left, who benefits greatly from people voting illegally, opposes the idea.

But I truly believe that's why administration after administration says they've got the fix, but precisely jack shit ever happens... It's just plain easier to have them here illegally.

And to hell with what's best for American citizens.

You've shown no evidence whatsoever - let alone compelling evidence - that your plan is any better than the current status quo. It does not accomplish what you seem to suggest it accomplishes.

Whether or not their presence is a net positive or net negative does not seem to have even entered the dialogue.

Combined with Voter ID, it prevents the crimes shown in the links above.

 

[daveman]

Crap. I meant to vote yes. Coffee hasn't kicked in.

Deporting millions of illegals, while desirable, is simply not possible. I could get behind granting them permanent resident alien status. They can legally work and pay taxes.

But they wouldn't be able to vote.

i have gotten to know too many of them....many have been here well over 15 years and lots work harder than most Americans around here....the guy a few garages down played the game years ago the way you are supposed to and it cost him something like 5-6 thousand bucks.....and he said if they just let these others in without any conditions like he had.....he is going to be pissed,as will others like him....

As well he should.

Leftists claim that conservatives hate all immigrants. This is, of course, ridiculous. We support people who follow the rules, come here, and make our country stronger.

We DON'T, however, support criminals who come here and drain resources.

Oddly enough, leftists do.

 

[daveman]

My "NO!" vote is because illegals have undermined wages for blue collar US citizens ever since Reagan led the charge to open the borders with his amnesty in 1986.

Then the question is, do you want to deport illegals, or reward them with citizenship?

 

[daveman]

...granting the 12 million illegals here now permanent legal resident alien status?

If not, why not?

Poll to follow.

No. Better to have legal Americans than second class citizens.

Explain what a second-class citizen is.

 

[daveman]

...granting the 12 million illegals here now permanent legal resident alien status?

If not, why not?

Poll to follow.

It's nothing more than back-door amnesty that will further have a huge negative impact on the American economy. The job market would be saturated with these people, causing more and more people to go on welfare, which in turn would simply overload the system.

But these people are here already, saturating the job market, and in many cases, using government assistance.

What would you do with them?

 

[daveman]

Disagree. Remove the incentive, reverse the condition. Instantly.

Only a simpleton tries to pretend something complicated is simple, just so he can strop trying to think about it anymore.

Hmm. Yes. I suppose you're suggesting that's me.

It's complicated because of the implications for our economic system; The part you intentionally left out of your quote of my last post; along with everything else germane to the OP's topic, as you lasered in on something you saw as easy to attack. My guess is you just want to be problematic no matter what.

That's fine, you clearly just want to be obtuse with me, so forget I asked.

I'm curious why you're ignoring the left's political reasons for not deporting illegals.

 

[Cuyo]

Illegal aliens can't vote? Because they have to show proof of citizenship?

Oh, wait -- your site hates that idea.

Meanwhile, in the real world, illegals DO vote:

How many noncitizens are registered to vote? | Las Vegas Review-Journal

Complaint Filed over Illegal Alien Voters | FrontPage Magazine

5000 illegal aliens voted in election last November :: Northern Colorado Gazette

Believe it or not, I don't lose sleep wondering what you're going to say next.

Wow... You're a dick!

I guess I missed the part in the TOS that says I need to breathlessly follow your every post.

I'm curious why you think you're entitled to that...?

Entitled? Good grief... One being 'Entitled' for you not to be a dick would be the only thing capable of preventing your being a dick?

There is, actually: Voter ID. But the left, who benefits greatly from people voting illegally, opposes the idea.

And to hell with what's best for American citizens.

You've shown no evidence whatsoever - let alone compelling evidence - that your plan is any better than the current status quo. It does not accomplish what you seem to suggest it accomplishes.

Whether or not their presence is a net positive or net negative does not seem to have even entered the dialogue.

Combined with Voter ID, it prevents the crimes shown in the links above.

This is the first mention of voter ID; And again, since neither illegals or your permanent residents would be granted one, I still fail to see any difference between the two.

 

[Unkotare]

US school children are getting screwed with overcrowded schools and forced bi-lingual classes which inhibits learning for all. .

Overcrowded schools are a problem in some areas, but crappy schools are a problem all over. Bi-lingual and/or ESL classes are not just for illegal immigrant children.

 

[Dugdale_Jukes]

My "NO!" vote is because illegals have undermined wages for blue collar US citizens ever since Reagan led the charge to open the borders with his amnesty in 1986.

Then the question is, do you want to deport illegals, or reward them with citizenship?

My solution would be to have corporations discovered to have as many as one illegal on its payroll thirty days after this policy is announced fined amounts sufficient to pay travel costs for 500 illegals for that employee and each additional illegal discovered on its payroll. CEOs of corporartions discovered to have five illegals on payrolls would go to prison for a period not less than one year for the first five, and one month for each additional illegal.

This would include temps, casual labor. Any paid activity at all.

 

[Cuyo]

Only a simpleton tries to pretend something complicated is simple, just so he can strop trying to think about it anymore.

Hmm. Yes. I suppose you're suggesting that's me.

It's complicated because of the implications for our economic system; The part you intentionally left out of your quote of my last post; along with everything else germane to the OP's topic, as you lasered in on something you saw as easy to attack. My guess is you just want to be problematic no matter what.

That's fine, you clearly just want to be obtuse with me, so forget I asked.

I'm curious why you're ignoring the left's political reasons for not deporting illegals.

It's not the topic.

I admit the left enjoys its minority vote, as the right enjoys its white male vote. But I don't think the 'illegal' vote is swinging any elections Dave, and I don't think you believe that either.

And please note that over 30 years and multiple administrations/houses/senates from both parties, everything from full Repub control to full Dem control... Exactly jack shit has happened.

 

[Unkotare]

The 25 million or so unemployed US workers are being screwed because some 11-20+ million illegal immigrants are gainfully employed at jobs they should not have, jobs the US workers could/should be doing.

Again, not so simple. How many of those jobs are people picking strawberries or harvesting lettuce on some farm a looooooooooooong way away from the hordes of unemployed in places like Detroit? The market could sort it out eventually, but there'd be a lot of pain along the way.