Would you melt down over the installation of a thorium reactor?

[Baruch Menachem]

Because of a post I found here I have been doing a lot of reading about Thorium reactors. They have huge advantages over Uranium reactors, as there is no nuke waste, there is not the need for huge containment vessels, and the way a thorium reaction works, it is self governing and will NOT race out of control like a uranium reactor does.

One huge advantage is that we have tons of the stuff all over, no need for imports.


They would be relatively cheap to build, but wack jobs might insist on making them have the same protections as uranium reactors which would jack up the cost way high.

They are easy to start up and shut down, arduous processes using uranium nukes.

And they emit zero gasses.

Of course, given the way folks react to Nuke plants, there will be the perpetual NIMBY problem.

Wiki on the subject

A page from some Thorium evangelists that don't quite jibe with Wiki

I like the idea.

 

[Sunshine]

I'll think about that tomorrow. Scarlett

 

[Liability]

Having IMMEDIATELY exhausted my vast reservoir of knowledge on the topic, I went and did some down and dirty searching. No; not Wiki.

Here is an interesting debate-format web-site on the issues involved, pro and con:

Debate: Thorium based nuclear energy - Debatepedia

 

[Baruch Menachem]

They didn't cover the issue of Thorium vs Coal.

That would be a slam dunk

 

[Liability]

They didn't cover the issue of Thorium vs Coal.

That would be a slam dunk

Would it?

How so?

 

[uscitizen]

Where do I buy thorium futures?

Is this unobtanium?

 

[Baruch Menachem]

All the dirt vs a nice clean hum.....

However people do have a tendency to freak at the idea of nukes. Even I recognize that dumping dirt into the atmosphere is not a good idea. So nukes are a positive. We just need to get the right kind of nukes so people aren't so freaked about the bomb in their back yard digging its way to Shanghai.

 

[Baruch Menachem]

Where do I buy thorium futures?

Is this unobtanium?

The stuff is quite common.

When pure, thorium is a silvery white metal that retains its lustre for several months. However, when it is contaminated with the oxide, thorium slowly tarnishes in air, becoming grey and eventually black. Thorium oxide (ThO2), also called thoria, has one of the highest melting points of all oxides (3300°C). When heated in air, thorium metal turnings ignite and burn brilliantly with a white light. Because of these properties, thorium has found applications in light bulb elements, lantern mantles, arc-light lamps, welding electrodes and heat-resistant ceramics. Glass containing thorium oxide has a high refractive index and dispersion and is used in high quality lenses for cameras and scientific instruments.

The most common source of thorium is the rare earth phosphate mineral, monazite, which contains up to about 12% thorium phosphate, but 6-7% on average. Monazite is found in igneous and other rocks but the richest concentrations are in placer deposits, concentrated by wave and current action with other heavy minerals. World monazite resources are estimated to be about 12 million tonnes, two-thirds of which are in heavy mineral sands deposits on the south and east coasts of India. There are substantial deposits in several other countries (see Table below). Thorium recovery from monazite usually involves leaching with sodium hydroxide at 140°C followed by a complex process to precipitate pure ThO2.

 

[Liability]

All the dirt vs a nice clean hum.....

However people do have a tendency to freak at the idea of nukes. Even I recognize that dumping dirt into the atmosphere is not a good idea. So nukes are a positive. We just need to get the right kind of nukes so people aren't so freaked about the bomb in their back yard digging its way to Shanghai.

Ok. You MADE me go do some more reading.

* * * *

Extra radioactive waste​

All other issues aside, thorium is still nuclear energy, say environmentalists, its reactors disgorging the same toxic byproducts and fissile waste with the same millennial half-lives. Oliver Tickell, author of Kyoto2, says the fission materials produced from thorium are of a different spectrum to those from uranium-235, but ‘include many dangerous-to-health alpha and beta emitters’.

Tickell says thorium reactors would not reduce the volume of waste from uranium reactors. ‘It will create a whole new volume of radioactive waste, on top of the waste from uranium reactors. Looked at in these terms, it’s a way of multiplying the volume of radioactive waste humanity can create several times over.’

Putative waste benefits – such as the impressive claims made by former Nasa scientist Kirk Sorensen, one of thorium’s staunchest advocates – have the potential to be outweighed by a proliferating number of MSRs. There are already 442 traditional reactors already in operation globally, according to the International Atomic Energy Agency. The by-products of thousands of smaller, ostensibly less wasteful reactors would soon add up.

Anti-nuclear campaigner Peter Karamoskos goes further, dismissing a ‘dishonest fantasy’ perpetuated by the pro-nuclear lobby.

Thorium cannot in itself power a reactor; unlike natural uranium, it does not contain enough fissile material to initiate a nuclear chain reaction. As a result it must first be bombarded with neutrons to produce the highly radioactive isotope uranium-233 – ‘so these are really U-233 reactors,’ says Karamoskos. 



This isotope is more hazardous than the U-235 used in conventional reactors, he adds, because it produces U-232 as a side effect (half life: 160,000 years), on top of familiar fission by-products such as technetium-99 (half life: up to 300,000 years) and iodine-129 (half life: 15.7 million years).

Add in actinides such as protactinium-231 (half life: 33,000 years) and it soon becomes apparent that thorium’s superficial cleanliness will still depend on digging some pretty deep holes to bury the highly radioactive waste.

* * * *

-- Don't believe the spin on thorium being a

 

[uscitizen]

Where do I buy thorium futures?

Is this unobtanium?

The stuff is quite common.

When pure, thorium is a silvery white metal that retains its lustre for several months. However, when it is contaminated with the oxide, thorium slowly tarnishes in air, becoming grey and eventually black. Thorium oxide (ThO2), also called thoria, has one of the highest melting points of all oxides (3300°C). When heated in air, thorium metal turnings ignite and burn brilliantly with a white light. Because of these properties, thorium has found applications in light bulb elements, lantern mantles, arc-light lamps, welding electrodes and heat-resistant ceramics. Glass containing thorium oxide has a high refractive index and dispersion and is used in high quality lenses for cameras and scientific instruments.

The most common source of thorium is the rare earth phosphate mineral, monazite, which contains up to about 12% thorium phosphate, but 6-7% on average. Monazite is found in igneous and other rocks but the richest concentrations are in placer deposits, concentrated by wave and current action with other heavy minerals. World monazite resources are estimated to be about 12 million tonnes, two-thirds of which are in heavy mineral sands deposits on the south and east coasts of India. There are substantial deposits in several other countries (see Table below). Thorium recovery from monazite usually involves leaching with sodium hydroxide at 140°C followed by a complex process to precipitate pure ThO2.

Thanks I had totally forgotten that about it being in Coleman lantern mantles.