Working For The State

[PoliticalChic]

1. A prime characteristic of totalitarian governance....Nazi, fascist, communist, socialist, Liberal, Progressive....is that the state, the representative of the collective, rises to preeminence over the individual....there are citizens who are perfectly content to work for the state, and against the other members of their community.
(John Kerry..cough...cough)


What surprises the student of government is how America has been changed to that sort of view.

a. The Founders foresaw a nation based on individualism, free markets, and limited constitutional government.

b. In Thoreau’s On the duty of Civil Disobedience, he states: “ There will never be a really free and enlightened State until the State comes to recognize the individual as a higher and independent power, from which all of its own power and authority are derived.”



By 'working for the state,' I am implying working against the interests, rights, and liberty of individual citizens.




2. Let's take, as an example, Naftly Frenkel, the man who made Stalin's gulags the "success" that they were.
And, of course, I mean "success," in the sense that that it destroyed millions...and gave rise to Hitler's concentration camps.


"Naftaly Aronovich Frenkel...was a Jewish Russian businessman and member of the Soviet secret police. Frenkel is best known for his role in the organisation of work in the Gulag, starting from the forced labor camp of the Solovetsky Islands, which is recognised as one of the earliest sites of the Gulag.

He rose rapidly from prisoner to staff member on the strength of his proposal to the camp administration that they link inmates' food rations to their rate of production, the proposal known as nourishment scale (шкала питания).


The story goes that when he arrived at the camp [as a prisoner!] he found shocking disorganisation and waste of resources (both human and material): he promptly wrote a precise description of what exactly was wrong with every one of the camp's industries (including forestry, farming and brick-making).[6]

He placed the letter in the prisoners' 'complaints box' whence it was sent, as a curiosity, to Genrikh Yagoda the secret police bureaucrat who eventually became leader of the Cheka; it is said that Yagoda immediately demanded to meet with the letter's author.[6]Frenkel himself claimed that he was whisked off to Moscow to discuss his ideas with Joseph Stalin and Lazar Kaganovich, one of Stalin's henchmen.....records show that Frenkel met Stalin in the 1930s and was protected by Stalin during the Partypurge years;..." Naftaly Frenkel - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia



a. "Frenkel's special talent for improving inmate work efficiency was quickly noticed by the camp officials there, and it was not long before he was ordered to explain his ideas and methods to Stalin personally. His main proposal was to link a prisoner's food ration, especially hot food, to his production, essentially substituting hunger for the knout as the main work incentive.


Frenkel had also observed that a prisoner's most productive work is usually done in the first three months of his captivity, after which he or she was in so debilitated a state that the output of the inmate population could be kept high only by removing (killing off) the exhausted prisoners and replacing them with fresh inmates. " The Gulag Communism s Penal Colonies Revisited




Seems that if there are benefits available, there are always men who will serve big government rather than their sisters and brothers.
Is that what we want America's motto to be?

No man is an island, and only a fool believes he's self-made...

As you are one of the few from your side of the aisle who attempts to put together a refutation...
...please articulate your point....

...how does that relate to the OP?


You might wish to read the rest of the thread first.

 

[PaintMyHouse]

1. A prime characteristic of totalitarian governance....Nazi, fascist, communist, socialist, Liberal, Progressive....is that the state, the representative of the collective, rises to preeminence over the individual....there are citizens who are perfectly content to work for the state, and against the other members of their community.
(John Kerry..cough...cough)


What surprises the student of government is how America has been changed to that sort of view.

a. The Founders foresaw a nation based on individualism, free markets, and limited constitutional government.

b. In Thoreau’s On the duty of Civil Disobedience, he states: “ There will never be a really free and enlightened State until the State comes to recognize the individual as a higher and independent power, from which all of its own power and authority are derived.”



By 'working for the state,' I am implying working against the interests, rights, and liberty of individual citizens.




2. Let's take, as an example, Naftly Frenkel, the man who made Stalin's gulags the "success" that they were.
And, of course, I mean "success," in the sense that that it destroyed millions...and gave rise to Hitler's concentration camps.


"Naftaly Aronovich Frenkel...was a Jewish Russian businessman and member of the Soviet secret police. Frenkel is best known for his role in the organisation of work in the Gulag, starting from the forced labor camp of the Solovetsky Islands, which is recognised as one of the earliest sites of the Gulag.

He rose rapidly from prisoner to staff member on the strength of his proposal to the camp administration that they link inmates' food rations to their rate of production, the proposal known as nourishment scale (шкала питания).


The story goes that when he arrived at the camp [as a prisoner!] he found shocking disorganisation and waste of resources (both human and material): he promptly wrote a precise description of what exactly was wrong with every one of the camp's industries (including forestry, farming and brick-making).[6]

He placed the letter in the prisoners' 'complaints box' whence it was sent, as a curiosity, to Genrikh Yagoda the secret police bureaucrat who eventually became leader of the Cheka; it is said that Yagoda immediately demanded to meet with the letter's author.[6]Frenkel himself claimed that he was whisked off to Moscow to discuss his ideas with Joseph Stalin and Lazar Kaganovich, one of Stalin's henchmen.....records show that Frenkel met Stalin in the 1930s and was protected by Stalin during the Partypurge years;..." Naftaly Frenkel - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia



a. "Frenkel's special talent for improving inmate work efficiency was quickly noticed by the camp officials there, and it was not long before he was ordered to explain his ideas and methods to Stalin personally. His main proposal was to link a prisoner's food ration, especially hot food, to his production, essentially substituting hunger for the knout as the main work incentive.


Frenkel had also observed that a prisoner's most productive work is usually done in the first three months of his captivity, after which he or she was in so debilitated a state that the output of the inmate population could be kept high only by removing (killing off) the exhausted prisoners and replacing them with fresh inmates. " The Gulag Communism s Penal Colonies Revisited




Seems that if there are benefits available, there are always men who will serve big government rather than their sisters and brothers.
Is that what we want America's motto to be?

No man is an island, and only a fool believes he's self-made...

As you are one of the few from your side of the aisle who attempts to put together a refutation...
...please articulate your point....

...how does that relate to the OP?


You might wish to read the rest of the thread first.

The individual and the collective must be in balance. Finding the right balance is the only issue. During hard times the collective wins, during good times, the individual, but the balance is always in flux and never fixed.

 

[ScienceRocks]

I say good for them.
-Police
-Fire fighters
-Post office
-Hilliary
-Nws
-Noaa
-Nhc
-nasa
-Nsf
-Nih
-Epa
-Faa
-Fcc
-etc

Good for them1!! They do great things for our society!

 

[PoliticalChic]

1. A prime characteristic of totalitarian governance....Nazi, fascist, communist, socialist, Liberal, Progressive....is that the state, the representative of the collective, rises to preeminence over the individual....there are citizens who are perfectly content to work for the state, and against the other members of their community.
(John Kerry..cough...cough)


What surprises the student of government is how America has been changed to that sort of view.

a. The Founders foresaw a nation based on individualism, free markets, and limited constitutional government.

b. In Thoreau’s On the duty of Civil Disobedience, he states: “ There will never be a really free and enlightened State until the State comes to recognize the individual as a higher and independent power, from which all of its own power and authority are derived.”



By 'working for the state,' I am implying working against the interests, rights, and liberty of individual citizens.




2. Let's take, as an example, Naftly Frenkel, the man who made Stalin's gulags the "success" that they were.
And, of course, I mean "success," in the sense that that it destroyed millions...and gave rise to Hitler's concentration camps.


"Naftaly Aronovich Frenkel...was a Jewish Russian businessman and member of the Soviet secret police. Frenkel is best known for his role in the organisation of work in the Gulag, starting from the forced labor camp of the Solovetsky Islands, which is recognised as one of the earliest sites of the Gulag.

He rose rapidly from prisoner to staff member on the strength of his proposal to the camp administration that they link inmates' food rations to their rate of production, the proposal known as nourishment scale (шкала питания).


The story goes that when he arrived at the camp [as a prisoner!] he found shocking disorganisation and waste of resources (both human and material): he promptly wrote a precise description of what exactly was wrong with every one of the camp's industries (including forestry, farming and brick-making).[6]

He placed the letter in the prisoners' 'complaints box' whence it was sent, as a curiosity, to Genrikh Yagoda the secret police bureaucrat who eventually became leader of the Cheka; it is said that Yagoda immediately demanded to meet with the letter's author.[6]Frenkel himself claimed that he was whisked off to Moscow to discuss his ideas with Joseph Stalin and Lazar Kaganovich, one of Stalin's henchmen.....records show that Frenkel met Stalin in the 1930s and was protected by Stalin during the Partypurge years;..." Naftaly Frenkel - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia



a. "Frenkel's special talent for improving inmate work efficiency was quickly noticed by the camp officials there, and it was not long before he was ordered to explain his ideas and methods to Stalin personally. His main proposal was to link a prisoner's food ration, especially hot food, to his production, essentially substituting hunger for the knout as the main work incentive.


Frenkel had also observed that a prisoner's most productive work is usually done in the first three months of his captivity, after which he or she was in so debilitated a state that the output of the inmate population could be kept high only by removing (killing off) the exhausted prisoners and replacing them with fresh inmates. " The Gulag Communism s Penal Colonies Revisited




Seems that if there are benefits available, there are always men who will serve big government rather than their sisters and brothers.
Is that what we want America's motto to be?

No man is an island, and only a fool believes he's self-made...

As you are one of the few from your side of the aisle who attempts to put together a refutation...
...please articulate your point....

...how does that relate to the OP?


You might wish to read the rest of the thread first.

The individual and the collective must be in balance. Finding the right balance is the only issue. During hard times the collective wins, during good times, the individual, but the balance is always in flux and never fixed.

In Nazi Germany and Soviet Russia the collective as represented by the government was all powerful.

When the United States was created, it was based on the supremacy of the individual over the government, as such is memorialized in the United States Constitution....-The Constitution protects individual rights such as freedom of speech, freedom religion etc.

Unfortunately, the totalitarian views, similar to those found in Nazi Germany and Soviet Russia, have insinuated their way into this nation.

They are known, here, as Liberalism, and Progressivism.



Revealing this truth is the basis of this, and other threads.
See if you can any errors in my posts herein.

 

[PaintMyHouse]

1. A prime characteristic of totalitarian governance....Nazi, fascist, communist, socialist, Liberal, Progressive....is that the state, the representative of the collective, rises to preeminence over the individual....there are citizens who are perfectly content to work for the state, and against the other members of their community.
(John Kerry..cough...cough)


What surprises the student of government is how America has been changed to that sort of view.

a. The Founders foresaw a nation based on individualism, free markets, and limited constitutional government.

b. In Thoreau’s On the duty of Civil Disobedience, he states: “ There will never be a really free and enlightened State until the State comes to recognize the individual as a higher and independent power, from which all of its own power and authority are derived.”



By 'working for the state,' I am implying working against the interests, rights, and liberty of individual citizens.




2. Let's take, as an example, Naftly Frenkel, the man who made Stalin's gulags the "success" that they were.
And, of course, I mean "success," in the sense that that it destroyed millions...and gave rise to Hitler's concentration camps.


"Naftaly Aronovich Frenkel...was a Jewish Russian businessman and member of the Soviet secret police. Frenkel is best known for his role in the organisation of work in the Gulag, starting from the forced labor camp of the Solovetsky Islands, which is recognised as one of the earliest sites of the Gulag.

He rose rapidly from prisoner to staff member on the strength of his proposal to the camp administration that they link inmates' food rations to their rate of production, the proposal known as nourishment scale (шкала питания).


The story goes that when he arrived at the camp [as a prisoner!] he found shocking disorganisation and waste of resources (both human and material): he promptly wrote a precise description of what exactly was wrong with every one of the camp's industries (including forestry, farming and brick-making).[6]

He placed the letter in the prisoners' 'complaints box' whence it was sent, as a curiosity, to Genrikh Yagoda the secret police bureaucrat who eventually became leader of the Cheka; it is said that Yagoda immediately demanded to meet with the letter's author.[6]Frenkel himself claimed that he was whisked off to Moscow to discuss his ideas with Joseph Stalin and Lazar Kaganovich, one of Stalin's henchmen.....records show that Frenkel met Stalin in the 1930s and was protected by Stalin during the Partypurge years;..." Naftaly Frenkel - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia



a. "Frenkel's special talent for improving inmate work efficiency was quickly noticed by the camp officials there, and it was not long before he was ordered to explain his ideas and methods to Stalin personally. His main proposal was to link a prisoner's food ration, especially hot food, to his production, essentially substituting hunger for the knout as the main work incentive.


Frenkel had also observed that a prisoner's most productive work is usually done in the first three months of his captivity, after which he or she was in so debilitated a state that the output of the inmate population could be kept high only by removing (killing off) the exhausted prisoners and replacing them with fresh inmates. " The Gulag Communism s Penal Colonies Revisited




Seems that if there are benefits available, there are always men who will serve big government rather than their sisters and brothers.
Is that what we want America's motto to be?

No man is an island, and only a fool believes he's self-made...

As you are one of the few from your side of the aisle who attempts to put together a refutation...
...please articulate your point....

...how does that relate to the OP?


You might wish to read the rest of the thread first.

The individual and the collective must be in balance. Finding the right balance is the only issue. During hard times the collective wins, during good times, the individual, but the balance is always in flux and never fixed.

In Nazi Germany and Soviet Russia the collective as represented by the government was all powerful.

When the United States was created, it was based on the supremacy of the individual over the government, as such is memorialized in the United States Constitution....-The Constitution protects individual rights such as freedom of speech, freedom religion etc.

Unfortunately, the totalitarian views, similar to those found in Nazi Germany and Soviet Russia, have insinuated their way into this nation.

They are known, here, as Liberalism, and Progressivism.



Revealing this truth is the basis of this, and other threads.
See if you can any errors in my posts herein.

The Bills of Rights are amendments to the Constitution, which sets out to decree the rules of government, a collective. The individual was secondary, even here.

 

[PoliticalChic]

I say good for them.
-Police
-Fire fighters
-Post office
-Hilliary
-Nws
-Noaa
-Nhc
-nasa
-Nsf
-Nih
-Epa
-Faa
-Fcc
-etc

Good for them1!! They do great things for our society!

Well, in that case, there is only one way to greet you...
Sieg Heil!


And,....just to prove that I am correct, and you are a moron.....

"A Washington, D.C., appeals court is set to hear arguments later this year on new net neutrality rules, which critics say could lead to government regulators censoring websites such as the Drudge Report and Fox News.

The U.S. Court of Appeals for the D.C. Circuit will hear oral arguments against the Federal Communications Commission's rules on Dec. 4. A panoply of amicus briefs filed with the court last week offer a preview of the arguments.

In its February vote on net neutrality, the Federal Communications Commission stated that broadband providers do not have a right to free speech."
Drudge Fox News could be censored under new federal rules experts warn Washington Examiner


....Liberal fascists in charge.

 

[PoliticalChic]

1. A prime characteristic of totalitarian governance....Nazi, fascist, communist, socialist, Liberal, Progressive....is that the state, the representative of the collective, rises to preeminence over the individual....there are citizens who are perfectly content to work for the state, and against the other members of their community.
(John Kerry..cough...cough)


What surprises the student of government is how America has been changed to that sort of view.

a. The Founders foresaw a nation based on individualism, free markets, and limited constitutional government.

b. In Thoreau’s On the duty of Civil Disobedience, he states: “ There will never be a really free and enlightened State until the State comes to recognize the individual as a higher and independent power, from which all of its own power and authority are derived.”



By 'working for the state,' I am implying working against the interests, rights, and liberty of individual citizens.




2. Let's take, as an example, Naftly Frenkel, the man who made Stalin's gulags the "success" that they were.
And, of course, I mean "success," in the sense that that it destroyed millions...and gave rise to Hitler's concentration camps.


"Naftaly Aronovich Frenkel...was a Jewish Russian businessman and member of the Soviet secret police. Frenkel is best known for his role in the organisation of work in the Gulag, starting from the forced labor camp of the Solovetsky Islands, which is recognised as one of the earliest sites of the Gulag.

He rose rapidly from prisoner to staff member on the strength of his proposal to the camp administration that they link inmates' food rations to their rate of production, the proposal known as nourishment scale (шкала питания).


The story goes that when he arrived at the camp [as a prisoner!] he found shocking disorganisation and waste of resources (both human and material): he promptly wrote a precise description of what exactly was wrong with every one of the camp's industries (including forestry, farming and brick-making).[6]

He placed the letter in the prisoners' 'complaints box' whence it was sent, as a curiosity, to Genrikh Yagoda the secret police bureaucrat who eventually became leader of the Cheka; it is said that Yagoda immediately demanded to meet with the letter's author.[6]Frenkel himself claimed that he was whisked off to Moscow to discuss his ideas with Joseph Stalin and Lazar Kaganovich, one of Stalin's henchmen.....records show that Frenkel met Stalin in the 1930s and was protected by Stalin during the Partypurge years;..." Naftaly Frenkel - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia



a. "Frenkel's special talent for improving inmate work efficiency was quickly noticed by the camp officials there, and it was not long before he was ordered to explain his ideas and methods to Stalin personally. His main proposal was to link a prisoner's food ration, especially hot food, to his production, essentially substituting hunger for the knout as the main work incentive.


Frenkel had also observed that a prisoner's most productive work is usually done in the first three months of his captivity, after which he or she was in so debilitated a state that the output of the inmate population could be kept high only by removing (killing off) the exhausted prisoners and replacing them with fresh inmates. " The Gulag Communism s Penal Colonies Revisited




Seems that if there are benefits available, there are always men who will serve big government rather than their sisters and brothers.
Is that what we want America's motto to be?

No man is an island, and only a fool believes he's self-made...

As you are one of the few from your side of the aisle who attempts to put together a refutation...
...please articulate your point....

...how does that relate to the OP?


You might wish to read the rest of the thread first.

The individual and the collective must be in balance. Finding the right balance is the only issue. During hard times the collective wins, during good times, the individual, but the balance is always in flux and never fixed.

In Nazi Germany and Soviet Russia the collective as represented by the government was all powerful.

When the United States was created, it was based on the supremacy of the individual over the government, as such is memorialized in the United States Constitution....-The Constitution protects individual rights such as freedom of speech, freedom religion etc.

Unfortunately, the totalitarian views, similar to those found in Nazi Germany and Soviet Russia, have insinuated their way into this nation.

They are known, here, as Liberalism, and Progressivism.



Revealing this truth is the basis of this, and other threads.
See if you can any errors in my posts herein.

The Bills of Rights are amendments to the Constitution, which sets out to decree the rules of government, a collective. The individual was secondary, even here.

Au contraire.

The Constitution is designed to keep the collective, as represented by the federal government, in check, and to remind all that the individual is supreme.


Of course, that was when we were still America.

 

[PaintMyHouse]

No man is an island, and only a fool believes he's self-made...

As you are one of the few from your side of the aisle who attempts to put together a refutation...
...please articulate your point....

...how does that relate to the OP?


You might wish to read the rest of the thread first.

The individual and the collective must be in balance. Finding the right balance is the only issue. During hard times the collective wins, during good times, the individual, but the balance is always in flux and never fixed.

In Nazi Germany and Soviet Russia the collective as represented by the government was all powerful.

When the United States was created, it was based on the supremacy of the individual over the government, as such is memorialized in the United States Constitution....-The Constitution protects individual rights such as freedom of speech, freedom religion etc.

Unfortunately, the totalitarian views, similar to those found in Nazi Germany and Soviet Russia, have insinuated their way into this nation.

They are known, here, as Liberalism, and Progressivism.



Revealing this truth is the basis of this, and other threads.
See if you can any errors in my posts herein.

The Bills of Rights are amendments to the Constitution, which sets out to decree the rules of government, a collective. The individual was secondary, even here.

Au contraire.

The Constitution is designed to keep the collective, as represented by the federal government, in check, and to remind all that the individual is supreme.


Of course, that was when we were still America.

That is not what the Constitution says, hence the Amendments to it known as the Bill of Rights, which was ratified two years after the Constitution itself. The Constitution is primarily about the State, not the individual even though individual liberty was strongly supported. This was Liberalism at work after all...

 

[PoliticalChic]

As you are one of the few from your side of the aisle who attempts to put together a refutation...
...please articulate your point....

...how does that relate to the OP?


You might wish to read the rest of the thread first.

The individual and the collective must be in balance. Finding the right balance is the only issue. During hard times the collective wins, during good times, the individual, but the balance is always in flux and never fixed.

In Nazi Germany and Soviet Russia the collective as represented by the government was all powerful.

When the United States was created, it was based on the supremacy of the individual over the government, as such is memorialized in the United States Constitution....-The Constitution protects individual rights such as freedom of speech, freedom religion etc.

Unfortunately, the totalitarian views, similar to those found in Nazi Germany and Soviet Russia, have insinuated their way into this nation.

They are known, here, as Liberalism, and Progressivism.



Revealing this truth is the basis of this, and other threads.
See if you can any errors in my posts herein.

The Bills of Rights are amendments to the Constitution, which sets out to decree the rules of government, a collective. The individual was secondary, even here.

Au contraire.

The Constitution is designed to keep the collective, as represented by the federal government, in check, and to remind all that the individual is supreme.


Of course, that was when we were still America.

That is not what the Constitution says, hence the Amendments to it known as the Bill of Rights, which was ratified two years after the Constitution itself. The Constitution is primarily about the State, not the individual even though individual liberty was strongly supported. This was Liberalism at work after all...

The document specifies what the government can do, and makes clear, no more.

The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people.
Tenth Amendment

 

[PaintMyHouse]

The individual and the collective must be in balance. Finding the right balance is the only issue. During hard times the collective wins, during good times, the individual, but the balance is always in flux and never fixed.

In Nazi Germany and Soviet Russia the collective as represented by the government was all powerful.

When the United States was created, it was based on the supremacy of the individual over the government, as such is memorialized in the United States Constitution....-The Constitution protects individual rights such as freedom of speech, freedom religion etc.

Unfortunately, the totalitarian views, similar to those found in Nazi Germany and Soviet Russia, have insinuated their way into this nation.

They are known, here, as Liberalism, and Progressivism.



Revealing this truth is the basis of this, and other threads.
See if you can any errors in my posts herein.

The Bills of Rights are amendments to the Constitution, which sets out to decree the rules of government, a collective. The individual was secondary, even here.

Au contraire.

The Constitution is designed to keep the collective, as represented by the federal government, in check, and to remind all that the individual is supreme.


Of course, that was when we were still America.

That is not what the Constitution says, hence the Amendments to it known as the Bill of Rights, which was ratified two years after the Constitution itself. The Constitution is primarily about the State, not the individual even though individual liberty was strongly supported. This was Liberalism at work after all...

The document specifies what the government can do, and makes clear, no more.

The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people.
Tenth Amendment

Notice, Amendment, and two years later.

 

[PoliticalChic]

In Nazi Germany and Soviet Russia the collective as represented by the government was all powerful.

When the United States was created, it was based on the supremacy of the individual over the government, as such is memorialized in the United States Constitution....-The Constitution protects individual rights such as freedom of speech, freedom religion etc.

Unfortunately, the totalitarian views, similar to those found in Nazi Germany and Soviet Russia, have insinuated their way into this nation.

They are known, here, as Liberalism, and Progressivism.



Revealing this truth is the basis of this, and other threads.
See if you can any errors in my posts herein.

The Bills of Rights are amendments to the Constitution, which sets out to decree the rules of government, a collective. The individual was secondary, even here.

Au contraire.

The Constitution is designed to keep the collective, as represented by the federal government, in check, and to remind all that the individual is supreme.


Of course, that was when we were still America.

That is not what the Constitution says, hence the Amendments to it known as the Bill of Rights, which was ratified two years after the Constitution itself. The Constitution is primarily about the State, not the individual even though individual liberty was strongly supported. This was Liberalism at work after all...

The document specifies what the government can do, and makes clear, no more.

The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people.
Tenth Amendment

Notice, Amendment, and two years later.

1. The first 10 amendments to the Constitution make up the Bill of Rights. Written by James Madison in response to calls from several states for greater constitutional protection for individual liberties, the Bill of Rights lists specific prohibitions on governmental power. Google

As I said.


I freely admit that you Liberal fascists have gained the upper hand, and obviated the above.

 

[PaintMyHouse]

The Bills of Rights are amendments to the Constitution, which sets out to decree the rules of government, a collective. The individual was secondary, even here.

Au contraire.

The Constitution is designed to keep the collective, as represented by the federal government, in check, and to remind all that the individual is supreme.


Of course, that was when we were still America.

That is not what the Constitution says, hence the Amendments to it known as the Bill of Rights, which was ratified two years after the Constitution itself. The Constitution is primarily about the State, not the individual even though individual liberty was strongly supported. This was Liberalism at work after all...

The document specifies what the government can do, and makes clear, no more.

The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people.
Tenth Amendment

Notice, Amendment, and two years later.

1. The first 10 amendments to the Constitution make up the Bill of Rights. Written by James Madison in response to calls from several states for greater constitutional protection for individual liberties, the Bill of Rights lists specific prohibitions on governmental power. Google

As I said.


I freely admit that you Liberal fascists have gained the upper hand, and obviated the above.

If the Individual was so important in the Constitution, why did they Amend it, and ratify such Amendments two years later?

 

[PoliticalChic]

Au contraire.

The Constitution is designed to keep the collective, as represented by the federal government, in check, and to remind all that the individual is supreme.


Of course, that was when we were still America.

That is not what the Constitution says, hence the Amendments to it known as the Bill of Rights, which was ratified two years after the Constitution itself. The Constitution is primarily about the State, not the individual even though individual liberty was strongly supported. This was Liberalism at work after all...

The document specifies what the government can do, and makes clear, no more.

The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people.
Tenth Amendment

Notice, Amendment, and two years later.

1. The first 10 amendments to the Constitution make up the Bill of Rights. Written by James Madison in response to calls from several states for greater constitutional protection for individual liberties, the Bill of Rights lists specific prohibitions on governmental power. Google

As I said.


I freely admit that you Liberal fascists have gained the upper hand, and obviated the above.

If the Individual was so important in the Constitution, why did them Amend it, and ratify such Amendments two years later?

The Constitution was written to proscribe tyranny.

Still...to be sure of individual rights, the Bill of Rights reinforced the concept from the other direction.

 

[PaintMyHouse]

That is not what the Constitution says, hence the Amendments to it known as the Bill of Rights, which was ratified two years after the Constitution itself. The Constitution is primarily about the State, not the individual even though individual liberty was strongly supported. This was Liberalism at work after all...

The document specifies what the government can do, and makes clear, no more.

The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people.
Tenth Amendment

Notice, Amendment, and two years later.

1. The first 10 amendments to the Constitution make up the Bill of Rights. Written by James Madison in response to calls from several states for greater constitutional protection for individual liberties, the Bill of Rights lists specific prohibitions on governmental power. Google

As I said.


I freely admit that you Liberal fascists have gained the upper hand, and obviated the above.

If the Individual was so important in the Constitution, why did them Amend it, and ratify such Amendments two years later?

The Constitution was written to proscribe tyranny.

Still...to be sure of individual rights, the Bill of Rights reinforced the concept from the other direction.

One was about the collective, and one the individual. One came first, and one came as an afterthought. Don't confuse the two.

 

[PoliticalChic]

As shown earlier, the Nazi and Communists totalitarian governments found human life no more than a resource which can be uses as the government saw fit.


But the government and the morality is different in America......isn't it?

Let's see....

7. Doctors don't work for the state...they obey the Hippocratic Oath, "The Hippocratic Oath is an oath historically taken by physicians. It is one of the most widely known of Greek medical texts. In its original form, it requires a new physician to swear, by a number of healing gods, to uphold specific ethical standards."
Hippocratic Oath - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia


Unless they work for the collective, as translated into 'social justice.'



"Another key administration figure committed to cost cutting is Dr. Ezekiel Emanuel, a health policy advisor in the Office of Management and Budget and brother of Rahm Emanuel, the president's chief of staff. Dr. Emanuel says that the usual recommendations for cutting costs (often urged by President Obama) are window dressing...


True change, writes Dr. Emanuel, must include reassessing the promise doctors make when they enter the profession, the Hippocratic Oath. Amazingly, Dr. Emanuel criticizes the Hippocratic Oath as partly to blame for the "overuse" of medical care: "Medical school education and post graduate education emphasize thoroughness," he wrote.

Physicians take the "Hippocratic Oath's admonition to 'use my power to help the sick to the best of my ability and judgment' as an imperative to do everything for the patient regardless of the cost or effects on others." (Journal of the American Medical Association, June 18, 2008.)

Of course that is what patients hope their doctors will do. But Dr. Emanuel wants doctors to look beyond the needs of their own patient and consider social justice."
Defend Your Health - For a Fit Body and Mind

Downgrading American Medical Care The American Spectator

So...for Liberals/Progressives/Democrats....if you're old, or too sick.....

......die.

That's the view...if you're 'Working for the State.'
Communists....Nazis....Progressives.....gotta break a few eggs to make an omelet.


"We must rid ourselves once and for all of the Quaker-Papist babble about the sanctity of human life."
Leon Trotsky

 

[NYcarbineer]

1. A prime characteristic of totalitarian governance....Nazi, fascist, communist, socialist, Liberal, Progressive....is that the state, the representative of the collective, rises to preeminence over the individual....there are citizens who are perfectly content to work for the state, and against the other members of their community.
(John Kerry..cough...cough)


What surprises the student of government is how America has been changed to that sort of view.

a. The Founders foresaw a nation based on individualism, free markets, and limited constitutional government.

b. In Thoreau’s On the duty of Civil Disobedience, he states: “ There will never be a really free and enlightened State until the State comes to recognize the individual as a higher and independent power, from which all of its own power and authority are derived.”



By 'working for the state,' I am implying working against the interests, rights, and liberty of individual citizens.




2. Let's take, as an example, Naftly Frenkel, the man who made Stalin's gulags the "success" that they were.
And, of course, I mean "success," in the sense that that it destroyed millions...and gave rise to Hitler's concentration camps.


"Naftaly Aronovich Frenkel...was a Jewish Russian businessman and member of the Soviet secret police. Frenkel is best known for his role in the organisation of work in the Gulag, starting from the forced labor camp of the Solovetsky Islands, which is recognised as one of the earliest sites of the Gulag.

He rose rapidly from prisoner to staff member on the strength of his proposal to the camp administration that they link inmates' food rations to their rate of production, the proposal known as nourishment scale (шкала питания).


The story goes that when he arrived at the camp [as a prisoner!] he found shocking disorganisation and waste of resources (both human and material): he promptly wrote a precise description of what exactly was wrong with every one of the camp's industries (including forestry, farming and brick-making).[6]

He placed the letter in the prisoners' 'complaints box' whence it was sent, as a curiosity, to Genrikh Yagoda the secret police bureaucrat who eventually became leader of the Cheka; it is said that Yagoda immediately demanded to meet with the letter's author.[6]Frenkel himself claimed that he was whisked off to Moscow to discuss his ideas with Joseph Stalin and Lazar Kaganovich, one of Stalin's henchmen.....records show that Frenkel met Stalin in the 1930s and was protected by Stalin during the Partypurge years;..." Naftaly Frenkel - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia



a. "Frenkel's special talent for improving inmate work efficiency was quickly noticed by the camp officials there, and it was not long before he was ordered to explain his ideas and methods to Stalin personally. His main proposal was to link a prisoner's food ration, especially hot food, to his production, essentially substituting hunger for the knout as the main work incentive.


Frenkel had also observed that a prisoner's most productive work is usually done in the first three months of his captivity, after which he or she was in so debilitated a state that the output of the inmate population could be kept high only by removing (killing off) the exhausted prisoners and replacing them with fresh inmates. " The Gulag Communism s Penal Colonies Revisited




Seems that if there are benefits available, there are always men who will serve big government rather than their sisters and brothers.
Is that what we want America's motto to be?

Not all reasons to rebel - against 'big government', a central power, a national unity under one supreme law of the land -


have been so noble.

You have the secession of Mississippi, for example, and why it demanded its sovereignty back...

"Our position is thoroughly identified with the institution of slavery-- the greatest material interest of the world. Its labor supplies the product which constitutes by far the largest and most important portions of commerce of the earth. These products are peculiar to the climate verging on the tropical regions, and by an imperious law of nature, none but the black race can bear exposure to the tropical sun."

Ah yes, a demand for a state's individualism, free markets, and limited government.

Very conservative.

 

[G.T.]

1. A prime characteristic of totalitarian governance....Nazi, fascist, communist, socialist, Liberal, Progressive....is that the state, the representative of the collective, rises to preeminence over the individual....there are citizens who are perfectly content to work for the state, and against the other members of their community.
(John Kerry..cough...cough)


What surprises the student of government is how America has been changed to that sort of view.

a. The Founders foresaw a nation based on individualism, free markets, and limited constitutional government.

b. In Thoreau’s On the duty of Civil Disobedience, he states: “ There will never be a really free and enlightened State until the State comes to recognize the individual as a higher and independent power, from which all of its own power and authority are derived.”



By 'working for the state,' I am implying working against the interests, rights, and liberty of individual citizens.




2. Let's take, as an example, Naftly Frenkel, the man who made Stalin's gulags the "success" that they were.
And, of course, I mean "success," in the sense that that it destroyed millions...and gave rise to Hitler's concentration camps.


"Naftaly Aronovich Frenkel...was a Jewish Russian businessman and member of the Soviet secret police. Frenkel is best known for his role in the organisation of work in the Gulag, starting from the forced labor camp of the Solovetsky Islands, which is recognised as one of the earliest sites of the Gulag.

He rose rapidly from prisoner to staff member on the strength of his proposal to the camp administration that they link inmates' food rations to their rate of production, the proposal known as nourishment scale (шкала питания).


The story goes that when he arrived at the camp [as a prisoner!] he found shocking disorganisation and waste of resources (both human and material): he promptly wrote a precise description of what exactly was wrong with every one of the camp's industries (including forestry, farming and brick-making).[6]

He placed the letter in the prisoners' 'complaints box' whence it was sent, as a curiosity, to Genrikh Yagoda the secret police bureaucrat who eventually became leader of the Cheka; it is said that Yagoda immediately demanded to meet with the letter's author.[6]Frenkel himself claimed that he was whisked off to Moscow to discuss his ideas with Joseph Stalin and Lazar Kaganovich, one of Stalin's henchmen.....records show that Frenkel met Stalin in the 1930s and was protected by Stalin during the Partypurge years;..." Naftaly Frenkel - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia



a. "Frenkel's special talent for improving inmate work efficiency was quickly noticed by the camp officials there, and it was not long before he was ordered to explain his ideas and methods to Stalin personally. His main proposal was to link a prisoner's food ration, especially hot food, to his production, essentially substituting hunger for the knout as the main work incentive.


Frenkel had also observed that a prisoner's most productive work is usually done in the first three months of his captivity, after which he or she was in so debilitated a state that the output of the inmate population could be kept high only by removing (killing off) the exhausted prisoners and replacing them with fresh inmates. " The Gulag Communism s Penal Colonies Revisited




Seems that if there are benefits available, there are always men who will serve big government rather than their sisters and brothers.
Is that what we want America's motto to be?

You know, PC, every single solitary person I know and have known, who has worked or is working in any job capacity where their compensation came/comes from the government ( taxpayers ) have been and are, liberals. It's just a sick fact! They haven't a clue how dangerous it has made my country of America.

For now, I am stuck living amongst them, but soon may be moving to a state which is predominantly conservative, should I say, "yes honey, I will. "

Thats bullshit.

What part is? The one about the numbers? If so, I do agree there exists a small minority who would not be progressive. I'm speaking only of those I know and have known which would be in the hundreds.

Youve asked hundreds of people all about their politics?

Yuck.

What other fascinatings did you all discuss, bowling?

 

[koshergrl]

Is it clear that totalitarians don't consider human life sacred.....something that can be seen in Barack Obama's Illinois voting record in favor of infanticide.

You realize that abortion was outlawed under the nazis, right?

Only for some. They encouraged it and made it legal for others. Yes pc knows this. It's the way progressives work.

 

[ScienceRocks]

Is it clear that totalitarians don't consider human life sacred.....something that can be seen in Barack Obama's Illinois voting record in favor of infanticide.

You realize that abortion was outlawed under the nazis, right?

Only for some. They encouraged it and made it legal for others. Yes pc knows this. It's the way progressives work.

Well, most people in this country want it to be legal...I don't like it but who am I to stop people from having the freedom to do so?

 

[ScienceRocks]

That is not what the Constitution says, hence the Amendments to it known as the Bill of Rights, which was ratified two years after the Constitution itself. The Constitution is primarily about the State, not the individual even though individual liberty was strongly supported. This was Liberalism at work after all...

The document specifies what the government can do, and makes clear, no more.

The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people.
Tenth Amendment

Notice, Amendment, and two years later.

1. The first 10 amendments to the Constitution make up the Bill of Rights. Written by James Madison in response to calls from several states for greater constitutional protection for individual liberties, the Bill of Rights lists specific prohibitions on governmental power. Google

As I said.


I freely admit that you Liberal fascists have gained the upper hand, and obviated the above.

If the Individual was so important in the Constitution, why did them Amend it, and ratify such Amendments two years later?

The Constitution was written to proscribe tyranny.

Still...to be sure of individual rights, the Bill of Rights reinforced the concept from the other direction.

The constitution was written to give us something different then a king...A nation controlled by the people. We elected a government to do what we wished!!!! We didn't put together a nation with a elected government that couldn't do what wished it to do.

That is why our founders from Washington, Adams and on down the list funded infrastructure and did many other things. Your idea of allowing a few corporations to take it all is sick.