Wonder Why Most Blacks Support Vouchers?

Annie

Diamond Member
Nov 22, 2003
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Why the GOP has dropped the ball on this, is another question I ask myself:

http://educationwonk.blogspot.com/2006/05/wonkitorial-lessons-to-be-learned-from.html


Wonkitorial: Lessons To Be Learned From Private Schools No, I did NOT make up the title

A number of schools in and around the St. Louis area are part of a bigger movement in private school education that seems to be gathering force nationwide. Called "Nativity Schools" they're private schools that serve kids from economically disadvantaged families:

A framed college acceptance letter rests against a wall in the makeshift office of a small St. Louis middle school.

The letter - from Southeast Missouri State University - means the world to the man at the desk, Loyola Academy President Kevin Lee.

It represents the first of the private school's dozens of graduates to get into college.

Seven years ago, Loyola Academy opened as an experiment. Now, with three similar schools here, it is part of a national movement helping urban children enter some of the region's selective private high schools, and from there, win admission to college.

Loyola is the first in St. Louis to see its students graduate from high school.

But more are coming. The movement is expanding nationwide, and two more schools are slated to open here this fall.

The schools, most founded by Catholic religious orders, follow one model: Pick intelligent children, many of whom have not had academic success. Enroll them in small middle schools, charging tuition that each family can afford.

Start classes early each morning. Stay late each night.

Bring students back on Saturdays. Hold mandatory summer school. Teach religion and ethics. Care immensely. Then pay - at least in part - for each child's high school education.

They are known as "Nativity" schools.

Those who support them gush.

"Love, love, love them," said Robbyn Wahby, education aide to Mayor Francis Slay. "I think this is one of the most important pieces of the education puzzle in St. Louis."

As do many, Wahby sees these schools as one small step in ending a cycle of poverty, and maybe, revitalizing depressed sections of a recovering city.

Without question, Loyola has changed children's lives.Each of the four Nativity model middle schools are holding graduations this spring. All brag of successes.

Marian Middle, an all-girls school in the city's Dutchtown neighborhood, has doubled the number of eighth-grade graduates since its first group four years ago, and is now sending girls to such private Catholic high schools as Nerinx Hall and Ursuline Academy.

The five-year-old coed De La Salle Middle School, in the city's Ville neighborhood, cites awards for civic virtue and dramatic increases on the Iowa Test of Basic Skills, a common measure of progress.

And the two-year-old St. Cecilia Academy, just north of Carondelet Park, says its students' Iowa Test scores rose 10 percentile points in a year. This year's graduates are going to schools such as SLUH, Rosati-Kain High and St. John Vianney High.

School leaders say the students largely do well in high school.

"Pretty much, they come in ready to go," said Cardinal Ritter President Leon Henderson. "I've been very pleased with them."

And, some say, having urban teens mix with middle-class and wealthier suburban students makes the whole school better.

"We would like much more diversity at our school," said Sister Madonna O'Hara, president of Ursuline. "We owe that to our students." The academy will get its first Marian girls this fall.

Now, roughly 60 schools follow the model, from Washington to Durham, N.C., to San Jose, Calif.

Forty-three of them - some Catholic, some Protestant - belong to the Nativity network, and together they spend more than $39 million to educate more than 3,000 middle schoolers each year.​

Read the whole thing.

I think that there is much that we who work in public schools can learn from successful private schools.

For example: In private schools, not only are teachers held accountable for effectively teaching, but students are also held to high standards of behavior and effort. Teachers' expectation of students is that homework will be done on time and pupils will not be disruptive in class, thereby wasting the teacher's (and other students') valuable time. Parents are responsible for ensuring that their offspring get to school punctually, well-rested, and prepared to learn.

Which leads us to ask a question: Why aren't the public schools allowed to hold educators, students, and parents to the same high standards that seem to be working for private schools?

Food for thought.
 
mom4 said:
Catholic schools rock! :rock:

So do many Christian schools, Jewish schools. Problem is, most are not located in poverty areas, the Catholic schools are. Nature of the institution. :cheers2:
 
Which leads us to ask a question: Why aren't the public schools allowed to hold educators, students, and parents to the same high standards that seem to be working for private schools?

Food for thought.
My daughter just graduated from a Private school. It may come as a surprise to many but, one of the graduation requirements was/is acceptance into a college or university. I don’t think public schools will ever hold their students to that high standard.

BTW...there is always a waiting list for Admission.
 
http://www.blackcommentator.com/7_voucher_tricksters_pr.html

Voucher Tricksters:
The Hard Right Enters Through the Schoolhouse Door

"This decision does nothing but further undercut the concept of universal quality public education."
- Kweisi Mfume, Executive Director, NAACP, on the U.S. Supreme Court voucher ruling.

"Socially disadvantaged children had their best day in court since Brown v. Board of Education in 1954."
- George F. Will, right-wing syndicated columnist

"Charles Murray, in my opinion, is one of the foremost social thinkers in this country."
- Michael Joyce, former president of the Bradley Foundation, on the author of "The Bell Curve."

The furor over public funding of private religious schools has nothing to do with the education of Black children. Those who frame the debate in terms of providing African American youngsters with educational options are either lying, deluded or simply too desperate to recognize the enemy chattering in front of their faces. We are now engaged in a battle instigated by the most racist forces in the nation, funded by those same ultra-conservatives, and loudly applauded by their media mouthpieces. The current, wretched White House is in full Rebel yell on the issue.

It is a contest between democracy and the power of money.

Read the rest at http://www.blackcommentator.com/7_voucher_tricksters_pr.html
 
jasendorf said:
That article isn't a rebuttal, it's a paranoid rant with more conspiracy theories than "Fahrenheit 9/11", "The DaVinci Code" and "The Bourne Identity" together. Of course, what can one expect from a website that advertises books with titles like "From Ike to Mao and Beyond: My Journey from Mainstream America to Revolutionary Communist"? Anyone that writes for website that espouses the idea that a bloody butcher like Mao Tse Tung is a great guy and worthy of emulation can't be taken seriously.

The real reason that school choice is opposed by the Left is that private schools do not have unionized teachers. Teachers' unions fund the campaigns of many democrats. The teachers' unions are afraid that if people are given the choice to use private schools over public schools, people would take their kids out of public school in droves and their membership (and dues money) would go south. The real conspiracy is between unions and the democrat left. They've cashiered our children's futures for power and influence. Parenthetically, it should come as no surprise that unions favor amnesty for illegal immigrants, they need the members.

Those unions are all about the interest of their leadership and maybe their members, but the good of the children isn't even a consideration.

SAT scores have plummeted since 1963, the first year that teachers became unionized.

Children from private schools score better than children from public school.

The teacher's unions have opposed just about every measure to bring competency tests for teachers, standardized tests for students and making teachers more accountable.

America spends more money per student than most countries, yet our students rank lower and lower each year.
 
Kathianne said:
So do many Christian schools, Jewish schools. Problem is, most are not located in poverty areas, the Catholic schools are. Nature of the institution. :cheers2:

Is that true?

With the exception of Jewish schools, I think there is some sort of mandatory ratio here, depending on faith population per area of course.
 
Said1 said:
Is that true?

With the exception of Jewish schools, I think there is some sort of mandatory ratio here, depending on faith population per area of course.
Not here, not that I've ever heard of. Catholic schools are regulated by the diocese, which will support schools in poverty areas, using funds from wealthier parishes.

My school, is totally supported by the parish and tuition, no funds from the diocese. It's questionable how long this school may remain open. Between the rising costs of gas, electricity, insurance, (both health and liability) tuition is jumping from $3600 per student-with break for siblings, to $4300 with no sibling breaks. There will still be 10% 'free tuition' students.

To the best of my knowledge, other denominational parochial schools and private schools are solely funded, meaning THAT church and tuition must support the school. The nature of the Catholic organization allows the redistribution of $$ to keep schools in low income areas going.
 
What is really misleading, intentionally misleading IMO, is to always connect “Private” schools with “religion”. This is the tactic the left and the unions use over and over, and it’s simply not true. But then, if you want to ignore test scores and the public wishes you just gotta make shit up.
 
Mr. P said:
What is really misleading, intentionally misleading IMO, is to always connect “Private” schools with “religion”. This is the tactic the left and the unions use over and over, and it’s simply not true. But then, if you want to ignore test scores and the public wishes you just gotta make shit up.
That's why one must separate out 'parochial' and 'private.' I don't care for the mixing of terms either.
 
Mr. P said:
What is really misleading, intentionally misleading IMO, is to always connect “Private” schools with “religion”. This is the tactic the left and the unions use over and over, and it’s simply not true. But then, if you want to ignore test scores and the public wishes you just gotta make shit up.

Even if they are religious we should STILL defend them. The communism and moral relativism taught in our schools is also faith-based.
 
rtwngAvngr said:
Even if they are religious we should STILL defend them. The communism and moral relativism taught in our schools is also faith-based.
Sure we should. I’m just saying the anti-voucher folks lump all Private into religious.
That is dishonest, but what do you expect, reasonable discussion or resolution from those who are trying to protect their jobs, and know better than you?
 
Kathianne said:
Not here, not that I've ever heard of. Catholic schools are regulated by the diocese, which will support schools in poverty areas, using funds from wealthier parishes.

My school, is totally supported by the parish and tuition, no funds from the diocese. It's questionable how long this school may remain open. Between the rising costs of gas, electricity, insurance, (both health and liability) tuition is jumping from $3600 per student-with break for siblings, to $4300 with no sibling breaks. There will still be 10% 'free tuition' students.

To the best of my knowledge, other denominational parochial schools and private schools are solely funded, meaning THAT church and tuition must support the school. The nature of the Catholic organization allows the redistribution of $$ to keep schools in low income areas going.

There was a seperate school board for Catholic schools, and I bet if I checked I would find that they were funded by the province down through to the municiple level and through other means, such as the church itself. Both boards have amalgamated now, but it once cost more (taxes) to send your kids to Catholic school and, having gone to both, I have to admit that there was a huge difference in just about everything from equipment to curriculum.
 
Said1 said:
There was a seperate school board for Catholic schools, and I bet if I checked I would find that they were funded by the province down through to the municiple level and through other means, such as the church itself. Both boards have amalgamated now, but it once cost more (taxes) to send your kids to Catholic school and, having gone to both, I have to admit that there was a huge difference in just about everything from equipment to curriculum.
There's the difference. With all the talk of vouchers, not a real issue in US. Private is private. Public is public. Well except for textbooks in my school districts. I can't pull the Tribune article, but suffice if to say that some public schools hit parents up hard. One year I had my two boys in high school; books and fees for both: $850. That's 'free'?
 
Kathianne said:
There's the difference. With all the talk of vouchers, not a real issue in US. Private is private. Public is public. Well except for textbooks in my school districts. I can't pull the Tribune article, but suffice if to say that some public schools hit parents up hard. One year I had my two boys in high school; books and fees for both: $850. That's 'free'?


Wow, $850? :eek:

I went to an art show at a private girls school a few yrs ago. And let me just say, we felt like the "help" and spent more time looking at the art work that belonged to the school than what was for sale. :laugh:
 
Mr. P said:
Sure we should. I’m just saying the anti-voucher folks lump all Private into religious.
That is dishonest, but what do you expect, reasonable discussion or resolution from those who are trying to protect their jobs, and know better than you?

Oh, the anti choice, racist lefties will do ANYTHING to prevent school choice from happening. A few years back when it was on the california ballot, they had ads stating out and out that if this proposistion allowing school choice would pass, then schools for witches and demons would start up, and the such.
Now, I mean, who thinks a parent is going to send their kids to a school to learn demonism and witchcraft? Give me a break, it was out and out fear mongering.
 
Mr. P said:
My daughter just graduated from a Private school. It may come as a surprise to many but, one of the graduation requirements was/is acceptance into a college or university. I don’t think public schools will ever hold their students to that high standard.

BTW...there is always a waiting list for Admission.
What if the student was rejected from all the colleges they applied to?
 
Mr.Conley said:
What if the student was rejected from all the colleges they applied to?
Never heard of it happening. Students must meet high standards for admission to the next grade level every year. So if a student is not up to standards for the senior year (which BTW insures college acceptance) they would not be accepted into the senior year. In other words, they don’t pass kids on who are failing, like public schools do.

BTW...if a student becomes pregnant she’s expelled, if the father is a student at the school he’s expelled too. That has happened. Oh, there are no discipline problems either.
 
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