Why Water will not allow LWIR energy beyond the skin layer...

[IanC]

Explain how a 100% nitrogen atmosphere warms the surface first. Then we can move on to adding CO2. And why you think 100,000 ppm is a special number.

Down-welling radiation does it not the nitrogen. And IF you were cognizant of atmospheric mass you would know why that 100,000 number is important.

How does a 100% Nitrogen atmosphere cause the average surface temperature to be warmer than without an atmosphere? The answer is not downwelling radiation.

Still waiting

I wonder if you know what the mass of the atmosphere is and how it slows the release of heat... it is MASS...

That is a good start. Could you flesh out a few of the details? I am particularly interested in hearing about how 10% is a special number.

You seemed to have abandoned this thread.

Are you having a hard time trying to explain how 'MASS' slows the cooling? Do you need some help?

 

[IanC]

You're a fucking retard.

Latent heat of phase change does have an overlap between chemistry and physics but it is a long stretch to call it a chemical change or chemical process. As per usual you mangle your description of anything scientific. I have stopped trying to give you the benefit of the doubt, and I am going to respond to what you say, rather than what you might potentially mean.

IR is immediately absorbed by water, it has an effect, period.

Thank goodness that water is NOT such a good absorber of visible light or UV, otherwise the ocean surface would boil in daytime and freeze at night.

Downwelling atmospheric IR does not heat the ocean surface except in the unusual circumstances of nighttime inversions. At all other times it reduces the amount of heat being lost to the atmosphere or outer space. Why are you incapable of grasping that simple concept?

Conduction and Convection push the heat higher in the atmosphere away from the surface. This is why the surface temps do not rise in high levels of CO2. With the heat removed from the surface there can be no downward (radiative or conductive) warming of the oceans.

Again your premise fails the basic laws of thermodynamics.

Honestly, I don't know how to make it any simpler for you to understand. It is up to you to visualize the different pathways.

Start with no atmosphere. The high and low temperatures are extreme. The average temperature is lower than the average solar input would suggest. WHY?

Then a 100% Nitrogen atmosphere. Only conduction to warm the atmosphere. The daily extremes are lessened. WHY? The average temperature is getting closer to what the average solar input would suggest. WHY?

Add some CO2. What happens to the temperature profile of the atmosphere? I say it gets warmer at the bottom and cooler at the top. And the average atmospheric temperature goes up. WHY? A warmer atmosphere at the bottom also means a warmer surface. WHY?

Adding water just adds a huge amount of complexity. If you don't understand what was happening in the first three cases you will be totally confused.

CO2 can not hold heat by itself. therefore a nitrogen/CO2 atmosphere can not warm at concentrations below 100,000ppm.

Best do the math Ian, on the gases abilities..

Explain how a 100% nitrogen atmosphere warms the surface first. Then we can move on to adding CO2. And why you think 100,000 ppm is a special number.

Down-welling radiation does it not the nitrogen. And IF you were cognizant of atmospheric mass you would know why that 100,000 number is important.

Still waiting for you to explain your gobbledygook.