Why Was Mike Pence Not Charged With Possessing Classified Documents?

[protectionist]

Says you, citing yourself. Not the law.

The law says all presidential records belong to the archive, are controlled by the archivist, and are made available to the former president.

NOT that the former president can steal classified documents, refuse to give them back and defy a subpoena and show them to other people.

Again, look at the subsection you're quoting.

(2) subject to any rights, defenses, or privileges which the United States or any agency or person may invoke, Presidential records shall be made available—
(A) pursuant to subpoena or other judicial process issued by a court of competent jurisdiction for the purposes of any civil or criminal investigation or proceeding;

No it's what THE LAW says >>

Presidential Records (44 U.S.C. Chapter 22) | National Archives

www.archives.gov

 

[protectionist]

See post 16.

You're stuck, buddy.

See post 21

 

[protectionist]

Not in court it isn't. Even Trump's lawyers abandoned that nonsense last time around.

It isn't nonsense. There is nothing to show/prove that the FBI didn't bring documents in and put them there, with no documents there before that.

Show us here/now how that possibility can be eliminated. Go ahead!

 

[Skylar]

No it's what THE LAW says >>

Presidential Records (44 U.S.C. Chapter 22) | National Archives

www.archives.gov

No where does in the law does it say Trump can simply steal classified documents or defy a subpoena. The archivist will make those documents available. Not Trump.

Trump can't just take them himself. The documents belong to the United States, under the National Archive.

https://uscode.house.gov/view.xhtml?path=/prelim@title44/chapter22&edition=prelim

"Ownership of Presidential records. The United States shall reserve and retain complete ownership, possession, and control of Presidential records; and such records shall be administered in accordance with the provisions of this chapter."

Presidential records don't belong to Trump. They can be made AVAILABLE to Trump by the NARA. But Trump cannot simply steal what doesn't belong to him.

"(2) The Archivist shall deposit all such Presidential records in a Presidential archival depository or another archival facility operated by the United States. The Archivist is authorized to designate, after consultation with the former President, a director at each depository or facility, who shall be responsible for the care and preservation of such records."

And he certainly can't willfully retain classified documents in defiance of a subpoena.

You're gonna need to ape better talking points, P. Keep hunting for someone to tell you what to think.

 

[Skylar]

It isn't nonsense. There is nothing to show/prove that the FBI didn't bring documents in and put them there, with no documents there before that.

Show us here/now how that possibility can be eliminated. Go ahead!

Its complete jibbering nonsense. And backed by jack shit. When Trump's team was challenged to back the claim with evidence, they dropped the claim.

They had nothing to back it up. Its just a nonsense conspiracy for rubes like yourself.

 

[Superbadbrutha]

44 U.S. Code § 2205 - Exceptions to restricted access
..

(3) the Presidential records of a former President shall be available to such former President

44 U.S. Code § 2205 - Exceptions to restricted access

www.law.cornell.edu

That's the problem, they weren't his records.

 

[protectionist]

Says you, citing yourself. Not the law.

The law says all presidential records belong to the archive, are controlled by the archivist, and are made available to the former president.

NOT that the former president can steal classified documents, refuse to give them back and defy a subpoena and show them to other people.

Again, look at the subsection you're quoting.

(2) subject to any rights, defenses, or privileges which the United States or any agency or person may invoke, Presidential records shall be made available—
(A) pursuant to subpoena or other judicial process issued by a court of competent jurisdiction for the purposes of any civil or criminal investigation or proceeding;

OK I took a look at Post # 16 Now you take a look at this >>

Nobody can show/prove that documents were illegally in Trump's possession. He could have never known they ever left the White House.

If Trump didnt even know that said documents were even present in Mar-a-Lago, then everything you wrote in Post # 16 is MOOT and irrelevant.

In American law, there is a such thing known as "criminal intent". An accuser bears the burden of proving criminal intent. In this case, that appears to be impossible.

 

[Winston]

And? He outed himself and gave them back.
Trump didn't. That's why he got charged.

Two people speeding down the interstate. One is doing 79 mph at two o'clock in the morning. He pulls right over as soon as the blue lights come on, apologizes profusely, and shows the trooper that his speedometer light is not working, he didn't know he was speeding. The trooper lets him walk.

The other is making 105 mph in five o'clock traffic, blows past a trooper while flashing him the middle finger, and refuses to pull over. He does his best Ricky Bobby imitation, screaming across the median and then promptly exits the interstate. He is chased by half a dozen law enforcement officers from three different agencies through a suburban area and is finally stopped by stop sticks. And turns out, he was live streaming the entire episode on Youtube. He gets a ticket.

Now can anyone make the argument the later driver shouldn't be charged because the former driver wasn't? Anyone? Because that is precisely what you dumbshit Trumpsters are attempting to argue.

 

[protectionist]

That's the problem, they weren't his records.

FALSE! item (3) of the section shows that indeed ARE his records. (made available to him)

 

[Skylar]

OK I took a look at Post # 16 Now you take a look at this >>

Nobody can show/prove that documents were illegally in Trump's possession. He could have never known they ever left the White House.

If Trump didnt even know that said documents were even present in Mar-a-Lago, then everything you wrote in Post # 16 is MOOT and irrelevant.

In American law, there is a such thing known as "criminal intent". An accuser bears the burden of proving criminal intent. In this case, that appears to be impossible.

See post 24.

You lose again.

 

[Superbadbrutha]

FALSE! item (3) of the section shows that indeed ARE his records. (made available to him)

Break down these charges and show us how they are false.

• 31 counts of willful retention of classified documents
• 1 count of conspiracy to obstruct justice
• 1 count of withholding a document or record
• 1 count of corruptly concealing a document or record
• 1 count of concealing a document in a federal investigation
• 1 count of scheme to conceal
• and 1 count of making false statements and representations.

 

[Skylar]

FALSE! item (3) of the section shows that indeed ARE his records. (made available to him)

Nope. They are the property of the United States. Says who? Says the law:

"Ownership of Presidential records. The United States shall reserve and retain complete ownership, possession, and control of Presidential records; and such records shall be administered in accordance with the provisions of this chapter."

https://uscode.house.gov/view.xhtml?path=/prelim@title44/chapter22&edition=prelim

They can be made available to the president....under very specific circustances, also laid out in the law.

"(2) The Archivist shall deposit all such Presidential records in a Presidential archival depository or another archival facility operated by the United States. The Archivist is authorized to designate, after consultation with the former President, a director at each depository or facility, who shall be responsible for the care and preservation of such records."


A former president can't just steal shit. The presidential records don't belong to the president. They belong to the United States.

And a former president DEFINITELY can't steal classified documents, willfully retain classified documents, lie to authorities about having them, show them to other people and defy a subpoena.

You're gonna need better talking points to ape, buddy.

 

[protectionist]

Its complete jibbering nonsense. And backed by jack shit. When Trump's team was challenged to back the claim with evidence, they dropped the claim.

They had nothing to back it up. Its just a nonsense conspiracy for rubes like yourself.

They don't NEED to back up anything . YOU (the accuser) is who needs to present evidence of what YOU claim, and I gave you the chance and you posted a post that did not do that. You failed the challenge.

And of course you failed it, because as I said in Post # 27, it's impossible to prove that the FBI did not plant documents.

It;s also impossible to show/prove that Trump was ever aware of any documents ever having left the White House, let alone being put in Mar-a-Lago.

 

[protectionist]

Break down these charges and show us how they are false.

• 31 counts of willful retention of classified documents
• 1 count of conspiracy to obstruct justice
• 1 count of withholding a document or record
• 1 count of corruptly concealing a document or record
• 1 count of concealing a document in a federal investigation
• 1 count of scheme to conceal
• and 1 count of making false statements and representations.

I already did -read my posts. Those "charges" are a JOKE.

 

[protectionist]

Nope. They are the property of the United States. Says who? Says the law:

"Ownership of Presidential records. The United States shall reserve and retain complete ownership, possession, and control of Presidential records; and such records shall be administered in accordance with the provisions of this chapter."

https://uscode.house.gov/view.xhtml?path=/prelim@title44/chapter22&edition=prelim

They can be made available to the president....under very specific circustances, also laid out in the law.

"(2) The Archivist shall deposit all such Presidential records in a Presidential archival depository or another archival facility operated by the United States. The Archivist is authorized to designate, after consultation with the former President, a director at each depository or facility, who shall be responsible for the care and preservation of such records."


A former president can't just steal shit. The presidential records don't belong to the president. They belong to the United States.

And a former president DEFINITELY can't steal classified documents, willfully retain classified documents, lie about having them, show them to other people and defy a subpoena.

You're gonna need better talking points to ape, buddy.

"Property"isnt the issue. Possession is the issue. HA HA HA - you dont know what you're talking about.

 

[excalibur]

Made available by whom?

The Archivist. Not simply taken by Trump and kept in defiance of a subpoena.

Actually read the argument you're being told to ape.

44 U.S. Code § 2205 - Exceptions to restricted access

www.law.cornell.edu

Section 2 of the same subparagraph:

(2) subject to any rights, defenses, or privileges which the United States or any agency or person may invoke, Presidential records shall be made available—
(A) pursuant to subpoena or other judicial process issued by a court of competent jurisdiction for the purposes of any civil or criminal investigation or proceeding;

Trump defied a subpoena. He retained classified documents that had NEVER been made available to him by the Archivist. And just showed them to people like staffers and interviewers. And obstructed justice to do it, lying to investigators, hiding the docs and compelling his lawyers to lie.

You'll need to ape better talking points, Ex.

Section 3 is controlling when a former President is involved, section 2 clearly does not apply.

(3) the Presidential records of a former President shall be available to such former President​

Bill Clinton possesses digital audio recording from his presidency which are recordings of him doing official business including speaking with foreign leaders. The court said these were his personal records and the Archive had no right to them.

On a practical level, the possibility of judicial review raises a host of questions. If it is available, why is the PRA entirely silent on the subject?​

​

​

Judicial Watch, Inc. v. Nat'l Archives & Records Admin., 845 F. Supp. 2d 288 | Casetext Search + Citator

Read Judicial Watch, Inc. v. Nat'l Archives & Records Admin., 845 F. Supp. 2d 288, see flags on bad law, and search Casetext’s comprehensive legal database

casetext.com

 

[Skylar]

They don't NEED to back up anything . YOU (the accuser) is who needs to present evidence of what YOU claim, and I gave you the chance and you posted a post that did not do that. You failed the challenge.

And of course you failed it, because as I said in Post # 27, it's impossible to prove that the FBI did not plant documents.

It;s also impossible to show/prove that Trump was ever aware of any documents ever having left the White House, let alone being put in Mar-a-Lago.

If they're going to make the claim that the evidence is planted, they'll to prove it.

And they can't.

 

[protectionist]

A former president can't just steal shit. The presidential records don't belong to the president. They belong to the United States.

And a former president DEFINITELY can't steal classified documents, willfully retain classified documents, lie to authorities about having them, show them to other people and defy a subpoena.

You're gonna need better talking points to ape, buddy.

Read post # 23.... 27........ 33

You have no way of showing/proving that Trump stole anything. Not 1 piece of paper.

 

[protectionist]

If they're going to make the claim that the evidence is planted, they'll to prove it.

And they can't.

FALSE! They dont have tp prove anything,. Accusers are who have to prove, not defenders.

Even if US law was not innocent until proven guilty (BY THE ACCUSER), they still wouldn't have prove that evidence was planted,.
Just to show it COULD HAVE been planted, is enough, to dissipate any charges made. Ho hum. yawn****

 

[Skylar]

Sorry, section 3 controls where a former President is involved.

(3) the Presidential records of a former President shall be available to such former President

And we know that Bill Clinton possesses digital tape recordings of all sorts of discussion including with foreign leaders and the court said they are his property and the Archive has no authority to possess them.



No, section 3 is controlling when a former President is involved, section 2 is inapplicable.

Bill Clinton possesses digital audio recording from his presidency which are recordings of him doing official business including speaking with foreign leaders. The court said these were his personal records and the Archive had no right to them.

On a practical level, the possibility of judicial review raises a host of questions. If it is available, why is the PRA entirely silent on the subject?​

​

​

Judicial Watch, Inc. v. Nat'l Archives & Records Admin., 845 F. Supp. 2d 288 | Casetext Search + Citator

Read Judicial Watch, Inc. v. Nat'l Archives & Records Admin., 845 F. Supp. 2d 288, see flags on bad law, and search Casetext’s comprehensive legal database

casetext.com

You're still apeing, EX....but you've never actually read anything you're linking to. Which is why don't understand what you've been told to think.

Presidential records do NOT belong to the president.

They are the property of the United States. Says who? Says the law:


"Ownership of Presidential records. The United States shall reserve and retain complete ownership, possession, and control of Presidential records; and such records shall be administered in accordance with the provisions of this chapter."

https://uscode.house.gov/view.xhtml?path=/prelim@title44/chapter22&edition=prelim


Presidential records can be made available to the president....under very specific circumstances, also laid out in the law.


"(2) The Archivist shall deposit all such Presidential records in a Presidential archival depository or another archival facility operated by the United States. The Archivist is authorized to designate, after consultation with the former President, a director at each depository or facility, who shall be responsible for the care and preservation of such records."


A former president can't just steal shit. The presidential records don't belong to the president. They belong to the United States.

Trump just stole them. Willfully retained the documents, lied to authorities about having them, compelled his lawyers to lie, tried to move the documents so they wouldn't be found, shared classified documents with other people, and defied a subpoena.

The law doesn't allow ANY of that. Not one bit. As the documents are not and never have been Trump's. They've always belonged to the United States.

As for the Judicial Watch case, Judicial Watch tried to COMPEL the Archivst to collect tapes from Clinton that Judicial Watch claimed were presidential records. The courts found that they couldn't compel the Archivst to do any such thing.

You're going to need better talking points to mindlessly repeat. Ex.