Why "the fence" won't work

[Vandalshandle]

I have no problem with the ACLU's legal challenges against government abuse of power when they create unconstitutional laws. There is a legal way to change the constitution, without trampling on it.

 

[rhodescholar]

Where have walls or fences anywhere in the world worked?

Berlin, USSR, israel/west bank, saudi arabia/yemen, north/south korea, etc. If a government actually wants the fence/wall to work, it will. If the government is like in the US where they actually want the illegals to come into the country the way obama does, it won't.

 

[Roadrunner]

Take away the freebies, legalize marijuana, and the problem goes away.

Take away the freebies, and chronically unemployed Americans will drive them across the border as they scramble to get jobs formerly too hard for Americans to do in an attempt to avoid starvation.

 

[Roadrunner]

Walls work all over the world..... ... govt simply doesnt want them too so it puts out garbage excuses like this

Claymores work, and we have plenty.

 

[Roadrunner]

Securing our borders would be easy if the people coming here knew they couldn't get jobs. They get jobs because people hire them knowing they are illegal and work for cheap. Stop that practice and they will stop coming. We won't stop the practice because we are not willing to jail the owners of the business owners who profit from the illegals coming here. It really is that simple.

Jail the owners, and let the Americans that won't do the jobs the illegals now perform either work or starve.

 

[Roadrunner]

Estimates of completing the 1,400 miles of border fence that remain fence free range from a low of 23 billion dollars to a high of 49 billion dollars. That does not include things like monitoring, radar, watch towers manpower, drones, etc. All that for a system that may not be efficient. Spend less than a billion accountents, prosecutors and prison cells for the folks who hire illegals and we can save wheel barrels and tractor trailer loads of money. Heck, we could make the program pay for itself with fines levied against the criminals who create the problem.

Workshy Americans on welfare create the problem, don't kid yourself.

 

[Roadrunner]

Walls work all over the world..... ... govt simply doesnt want them too so it puts out garbage excuses like this

Where have walls or fences anywhere in the world worked?

They seem to work in most every place that they are manned and properly maintained.

Soviets fence and mined thousands of miles of border.

Worked pretty well.

 

[Delta4Embassy]

Wont work because for every 20 foot fence someone's making 21 foot ladders. Short of mining the border and placing guard towers with shoot to kill orders, fences don't work.

 

[Oldglory1]

Securing our borders would be easy if the people coming here knew they couldn't get jobs. They get jobs because people hire them knowing they are illegal and work for cheap. Stop that practice and they will stop coming. We won't stop the practice because we are not willing to jail the owners of the business owners who profit from the illegals coming here. It really is that simple.

Jail the owners, and let the Americans that won't do the jobs the illegals now perform either work or starve.

Geez, I get so sick of the propaganda that illegals are only doing jobs that Americans refuse to do. There are no jobs that Americans won't do for a fair wage except for maybe picking crops of which there are unlimited H-2A visas for legal, foreign workers. We don't need illegal aliens for anything. Employers only hire them because they will work for less and yes I agree they should be held accountable and so should the illegals themselves.

 

[Oldglory1]

Wont work because for every 20 foot fence someone's making 21 foot ladders. Short of mining the border and placing guard towers with shoot to kill orders, fences don't work.

Funny, on the border with San Diego a double layered wall was installed and it cut illegal immigration back to a trickle. The double layered wall on the most porous areas of the border would do the same. Electrify it with a non-lethal zap and it would do the trick. No need for land mines or shoot to kill orders. A good physical barrier would help the Border Patrol do their jobs more effectively.

 

[Oldglory1]

Estimates of completing the 1,400 miles of border fence that remain fence free range from a low of 23 billion dollars to a high of 49 billion dollars. That does not include things like monitoring, radar, watch towers manpower, drones, etc. All that for a system that may not be efficient. Spend less than a billion accountents, prosecutors and prison cells for the folks who hire illegals and we can save wheel barrels and tractor trailer loads of money. Heck, we could make the program pay for itself with fines levied against the criminals who create the problem.

Workshy Americans on welfare create the problem, don't kid yourself.

No, illegal aliens wiling to work for less is the problem.

 

[Delta4Embassy]

Wont work because for every 20 foot fence someone's making 21 foot ladders. Short of mining the border and placing guard towers with shoot to kill orders, fences don't work.

Funny, on the border with San Diego a double layered wall was installed and it cut illegal immigration back to a trickle. The double layered wall on the most porous areas of the border would do the same. Electrify it with a non-lethal zap and it would do the trick. No need for land mines or shoot to kill orders. A good physical barrier would help the Border Patrol do their jobs more effectively.

Better way is to simply create a genuine disincentive to immigrating illegally as with more severe penalties for employers who hire illegals, and things on that end of it. If no one's willing to hire you your reason for coming here evaporates.

 

[Oldglory1]

Wont work because for every 20 foot fence someone's making 21 foot ladders. Short of mining the border and placing guard towers with shoot to kill orders, fences don't work.

Funny, on the border with San Diego a double layered wall was installed and it cut illegal immigration back to a trickle. The double layered wall on the most porous areas of the border would do the same. Electrify it with a non-lethal zap and it would do the trick. No need for land mines or shoot to kill orders. A good physical barrier would help the Border Patrol do their jobs more effectively.

Better way is to simply create a genuine disincentive to immigrating illegally as with more severe penalties for employers who hire illegals, and things on that end of it. If no one's willing to hire you your reason for coming here evaporates.

I agree but it needs to go further than that. All benefits to illegal aliens need to be removed and birthright citizenship needs to change. They can come here now and give birth on our soil and collect all kinds of welfare benefits through them. Work a few odd jobs under the table and they can survive with both.

 

[Delta4Embassy]

Wont work because for every 20 foot fence someone's making 21 foot ladders. Short of mining the border and placing guard towers with shoot to kill orders, fences don't work.

Funny, on the border with San Diego a double layered wall was installed and it cut illegal immigration back to a trickle. The double layered wall on the most porous areas of the border would do the same. Electrify it with a non-lethal zap and it would do the trick. No need for land mines or shoot to kill orders. A good physical barrier would help the Border Patrol do their jobs more effectively.

Better way is to simply create a genuine disincentive to immigrating illegally as with more severe penalties for employers who hire illegals, and things on that end of it. If no one's willing to hire you your reason for coming here evaporates.

I agree but it needs to go further than that. All benefits to illegal aliens need to be removed and birthright citizenship needs to change. They can come here now and give birth on our soil and collect all kinds of welfare benefits through them. Work a few odd jobs under the table and they can survive with both.

If that's all they're doing I could give a shit. That makes non-citizenship a mere technicality. American labor benefits from illegal immigrant labor. Until that changes, nothing done to fight illegal immigration can work because the benefit outweighs the risk. Eliminate the benefit and suddenly the risk outweighs the benefit. But going after illegal immigrant rights absent going after business is simply persecuting honest workers living within the law but for how they got here. And in a very hypocritical way. We accept the labor help from illegals, yet punish them for being illegals. That's unfair and not a good way of doing things for a country that claims it's a glboal force for good.

 

[Oldglory1]

Wont work because for every 20 foot fence someone's making 21 foot ladders. Short of mining the border and placing guard towers with shoot to kill orders, fences don't work.

Funny, on the border with San Diego a double layered wall was installed and it cut illegal immigration back to a trickle. The double layered wall on the most porous areas of the border would do the same. Electrify it with a non-lethal zap and it would do the trick. No need for land mines or shoot to kill orders. A good physical barrier would help the Border Patrol do their jobs more effectively.

Better way is to simply create a genuine disincentive to immigrating illegally as with more severe penalties for employers who hire illegals, and things on that end of it. If no one's willing to hire you your reason for coming here evaporates.

I agree but it needs to go further than that. All benefits to illegal aliens need to be removed and birthright citizenship needs to change. They can come here now and give birth on our soil and collect all kinds of welfare benefits through them. Work a few odd jobs under the table and they can survive with both.

If that's all they're doing I could give a shit. That makes non-citizenship a mere technicality. American labor benefits from illegal immigrant labor. Until that changes, nothing done to fight illegal immigration can work because the benefit outweighs the risk. Eliminate the benefit and suddenly the risk outweighs the benefit. But going after illegal immigrant rights absent going after business is simply persecuting honest workers living within the law but for how they got here. And in a very hypocritical way. We accept the labor help from illegals, yet punish them for being illegals. That's unfair and not a good way of doing things for a country that claims it's a glboal force for good.

How does the American laborer benefit from illegal alien labor? You're not making any sense here. Who is suggesting that we only go after the illegal aliens without going after the employers also? Hint... no one! Honest workers? They are either working with a fake or stolen ID or working under the table and not paying income taxes. Their first dishonest act was crossing our border illegally in the first place. Who is this "we" you are referring to? Most Americans do not employ them all they get is an increase in their taxes supporting their social costs. Not to mention the loss of jobs and reduced wages. I guess you don't care about the unfairness to the American worker/taxpayer. You care only for these immigration lawbreakers. Why do you love these foreigners more than your fellow law abiding citizens? Every country in the world has immigration laws and for good reasons. How is it unfair to enforce them?

 

[Vandalshandle]

Walls work all over the world..... ... govt simply doesnt want them too so it puts out garbage excuses like this

Where have walls or fences anywhere in the world worked?

They seem to work in most every place that they are manned and properly maintained.

Soviets fence and mined thousands of miles of border.

Worked pretty well.

So, we should be more like the Soviets were.

Road, I seriously wonder why you post at all. Mine the border with claymore mines, shoot misdemeanor trespassers, adopt Soviet strategies... Why in the hell would anyone in their right mind take you even slightly seriously?

 

[Vandalshandle]

Wont work because for every 20 foot fence someone's making 21 foot ladders. Short of mining the border and placing guard towers with shoot to kill orders, fences don't work.

Funny, on the border with San Diego a double layered wall was installed and it cut illegal immigration back to a trickle. The double layered wall on the most porous areas of the border would do the same. Electrify it with a non-lethal zap and it would do the trick. No need for land mines or shoot to kill orders. A good physical barrier would help the Border Patrol do their jobs more effectively.

Link, please.

 

[Delta4Embassy]

Wont work because for every 20 foot fence someone's making 21 foot ladders. Short of mining the border and placing guard towers with shoot to kill orders, fences don't work.

Funny, on the border with San Diego a double layered wall was installed and it cut illegal immigration back to a trickle. The double layered wall on the most porous areas of the border would do the same. Electrify it with a non-lethal zap and it would do the trick. No need for land mines or shoot to kill orders. A good physical barrier would help the Border Patrol do their jobs more effectively.

Better way is to simply create a genuine disincentive to immigrating illegally as with more severe penalties for employers who hire illegals, and things on that end of it. If no one's willing to hire you your reason for coming here evaporates.

I agree but it needs to go further than that. All benefits to illegal aliens need to be removed and birthright citizenship needs to change. They can come here now and give birth on our soil and collect all kinds of welfare benefits through them. Work a few odd jobs under the table and they can survive with both.

If that's all they're doing I could give a shit. That makes non-citizenship a mere technicality. American labor benefits from illegal immigrant labor. Until that changes, nothing done to fight illegal immigration can work because the benefit outweighs the risk. Eliminate the benefit and suddenly the risk outweighs the benefit. But going after illegal immigrant rights absent going after business is simply persecuting honest workers living within the law but for how they got here. And in a very hypocritical way. We accept the labor help from illegals, yet punish them for being illegals. That's unfair and not a good way of doing things for a country that claims it's a glboal force for good.

How does the American laborer benefit from illegal alien labor? You're not making any sense here. Who is suggesting that we only go after the illegal aliens without going after the employers also? Hint... no one! Honest workers? They are either working with a fake or stolen ID or working under the table and not paying income taxes. Their first dishonest act was crossing our border illegally in the first place. Who is this "we" you are referring to? Most Americans do not employ them all they get is an increase in their taxes supporting their social costs. Not to mention the loss of jobs and reduced wages. I guess you don't care about the unfairness to the American worker/taxpayer. You care only for these immigration lawbreakers. Why do you love these foreigners more than your fellow law abiding citizens? Every country in the world has immigration laws and for good reasons. How is it unfair to enforce them?

Better question's why do you hate them so much? Just people, whether legal or not they're objectively no different than anyone else already here. You just some shitkicking racist 'tard hitting the response pedal when someone shows you a picture of brown people?

"Me dun like brown peeple." (stomps the pedal)

Quit being such a whiny little bitch about things and mind your own business for a change. Pleanty of your beloved citizens are hardcore criminals and perfectly legal citizens. If the worst thing an illegal immigrant has done is skip some papaerwork a blessing on their house.

You can go F yourself.

 

[Vandalshandle]

Nobody is going to build a wall. The cost is prohibitive, and it will not work, unless they confiscate all shovels, latters, boats, cars, and trucks.

That being settled, what I am REALLY interested in is how the republicans are going to double deportations on which they claim Obama is dragging his feet.

They have two years to prove this before the next election. This is going to be fun to watch, and, of course, the figures will be available of the number of deportees, online.

I suggest that they start ramping up their argument in advance that the figures are bogus. It will save time, later.

 

[rhodescholar]

Better way is to simply create a genuine disincentive to immigrating illegally as with more severe penalties for employers who hire illegals, and things on that end of it. If no one's willing to hire you your reason for coming here evaporates.

Why do some people look at this as an A/B situation, as if the potential remedies are mutually exclusive?

Attack it from ALL sides, simultaneously...build the wall 100 feet high, 50 feet down, with guard towers, arrest the business owners hiring them, deport all illegals, change the 14th amendment to remove the birthright citizenship nonsense, etc. There is no reason all of these steps cannot be taken at one time.

Once the H1Bs and illegals are out of the country, and employers see that they are no longer an option, they will HAVE to start paying better salaries to attract americans. If that means higher costs, fine - we are ALREADY paying insane levels of taxes to cover benefits for illegals as it is, so the net cost would likely be the same. As for the welfare collectors who prefer to cash checks rather than work, implement a lifetime limit to 5 years, that should be plenty of time to pull one's self out of a bad life situation and move forward into a salaried position.

The 2 constituencies opposing the repair of this issue are the democrats seeking future voters of beholden poor illegals grateful for and needing lots of handouts, and the corporates who benefit from paying low, non-competitive wages to the illegals. Until enough americans stand up and begin an uprising, this situation will continue until the country implodes from an inability to continue to tax a vanishing, jobless middle class to pay for the illegals' benefits while the corporates/wealthy are hoarding most of the revenues.