Why "the fence" won't work

[Oldglory1]

My views aren't extremist, yours are. My views are pragmatic. I'm not the one suggesting 10's of billions of dollars be spent on a system that doesn't work and never has worked anywhere in the world. That is the definition of extremism.

From National Pravda Radio:

"It was an area that was out of control," Henry says. "There were over 100,000 aliens crossing through this area a year."

Today, Henry is assistant chief of the Border Patrol's San Diego sector. He says apprehensions here are down 95 percent, from 100,000 a year to 5,000 a year, largely because the single strand of cable marking the border was replaced by double — and in some places, triple — fencing.

The first fence, 10 feet high, is made of welded metal panels. The second fence, 15 feet high, consists of steel mesh, and the top is angled inward to make it harder to climb over. Finally, in high-traffic areas, there's also a smaller chain-link fence. In between the two main fences is 150 feet of "no man's land," an area that the Border Patrol sweeps with flood lights and trucks, and soon, surveillance cameras.

"Here in San Diego, we have proven that the border infrastructure system does indeed work," Henry says. "It is highly effective."​

It works at relatively small sections. It hasn't worked to slow the overall numbers of illegal crosser's. They just go to different places to cross.

The point is to put up a good physical barrier along the most porous areas of the border then they won't have any different places to cross as the Border Patrol can take of the rest.

 

[Rikurzhen]

You can't put a price on national security. It's much cheaper to build a good physical barrier than to allow illegal aliens to run rampant in our country costing us billions a year. Besides, criminals and terrorists aren't looking for jobs so penalizing the employers will do nothing to stop those types from coming here. Other than that I am all for mandating e-verify across the board to stop both the employers and these illegals from breaking our labor laws.

It costs $12,000+ per year to educate one child in public schools. If it costs $144,000 per year to pay and operate ONE border agent and he stops only ONE child infiltrator per year, then he's paid for himself.

That border fence, costing the high amount of $49 billion to erect is the equivalent of educating only 340,000 infiltrator children. Money for the fence is money well spent.

 

[Camp]

My views aren't extremist, yours are. My views are pragmatic. I'm not the one suggesting 10's of billions of dollars be spent on a system that doesn't work and never has worked anywhere in the world. That is the definition of extremism.

From National Pravda Radio:

"It was an area that was out of control," Henry says. "There were over 100,000 aliens crossing through this area a year."

Today, Henry is assistant chief of the Border Patrol's San Diego sector. He says apprehensions here are down 95 percent, from 100,000 a year to 5,000 a year, largely because the single strand of cable marking the border was replaced by double — and in some places, triple — fencing.

The first fence, 10 feet high, is made of welded metal panels. The second fence, 15 feet high, consists of steel mesh, and the top is angled inward to make it harder to climb over. Finally, in high-traffic areas, there's also a smaller chain-link fence. In between the two main fences is 150 feet of "no man's land," an area that the Border Patrol sweeps with flood lights and trucks, and soon, surveillance cameras.

"Here in San Diego, we have proven that the border infrastructure system does indeed work," Henry says. "It is highly effective."​

It works at relatively small sections. It hasn't worked to slow the overall numbers of illegal crosser's. They just go to different places to cross.

Oh, so you mean it DOES work where it is actually emplaced. I see. Soooooooo, if one were to you know....build it elsewhere, I guess that would work too then wouldn't it.

I guess the difference between a relatively small section of security enhanced fence and one that stretches for thousands of miles escapes you.

 

[westwall]

My views aren't extremist, yours are. My views are pragmatic. I'm not the one suggesting 10's of billions of dollars be spent on a system that doesn't work and never has worked anywhere in the world. That is the definition of extremism.

From National Pravda Radio:

"It was an area that was out of control," Henry says. "There were over 100,000 aliens crossing through this area a year."

Today, Henry is assistant chief of the Border Patrol's San Diego sector. He says apprehensions here are down 95 percent, from 100,000 a year to 5,000 a year, largely because the single strand of cable marking the border was replaced by double — and in some places, triple — fencing.

The first fence, 10 feet high, is made of welded metal panels. The second fence, 15 feet high, consists of steel mesh, and the top is angled inward to make it harder to climb over. Finally, in high-traffic areas, there's also a smaller chain-link fence. In between the two main fences is 150 feet of "no man's land," an area that the Border Patrol sweeps with flood lights and trucks, and soon, surveillance cameras.

"Here in San Diego, we have proven that the border infrastructure system does indeed work," Henry says. "It is highly effective."​

It works at relatively small sections. It hasn't worked to slow the overall numbers of illegal crosser's. They just go to different places to cross.

Oh, so you mean it DOES work where it is actually emplaced. I see. Soooooooo, if one were to you know....build it elsewhere, I guess that would work too then wouldn't it.

I guess the difference between a relatively small section of security enhanced fence and one that stretches for thousands of miles escapes you.

See the post above yours.....

 

[Camp]

My views aren't extremist, yours are. My views are pragmatic. I'm not the one suggesting 10's of billions of dollars be spent on a system that doesn't work and never has worked anywhere in the world. That is the definition of extremism.

From National Pravda Radio:

"It was an area that was out of control," Henry says. "There were over 100,000 aliens crossing through this area a year."

Today, Henry is assistant chief of the Border Patrol's San Diego sector. He says apprehensions here are down 95 percent, from 100,000 a year to 5,000 a year, largely because the single strand of cable marking the border was replaced by double — and in some places, triple — fencing.

The first fence, 10 feet high, is made of welded metal panels. The second fence, 15 feet high, consists of steel mesh, and the top is angled inward to make it harder to climb over. Finally, in high-traffic areas, there's also a smaller chain-link fence. In between the two main fences is 150 feet of "no man's land," an area that the Border Patrol sweeps with flood lights and trucks, and soon, surveillance cameras.

"Here in San Diego, we have proven that the border infrastructure system does indeed work," Henry says. "It is highly effective."​

It works at relatively small sections. It hasn't worked to slow the overall numbers of illegal crosser's. They just go to different places to cross.

Oh, so you mean it DOES work where it is actually emplaced. I see. Soooooooo, if one were to you know....build it elsewhere, I guess that would work too then wouldn't it.

I guess the difference between a relatively small section of security enhanced fence and one that stretches for thousands of miles escapes you.

See the post above yours.....

All that expense and trouble and they still manage to build tunnels. We find an average of two sophisticated tunnels, some of them with rail systems every year. Only the smugglers know how many we don't find. I wonder how many pro fencer's have ever actually spent any time on the border areas of So. Cal, AZ, NM and Texas.

 

[westwall]

From National Pravda Radio:

"It was an area that was out of control," Henry says. "There were over 100,000 aliens crossing through this area a year."

Today, Henry is assistant chief of the Border Patrol's San Diego sector. He says apprehensions here are down 95 percent, from 100,000 a year to 5,000 a year, largely because the single strand of cable marking the border was replaced by double — and in some places, triple — fencing.

The first fence, 10 feet high, is made of welded metal panels. The second fence, 15 feet high, consists of steel mesh, and the top is angled inward to make it harder to climb over. Finally, in high-traffic areas, there's also a smaller chain-link fence. In between the two main fences is 150 feet of "no man's land," an area that the Border Patrol sweeps with flood lights and trucks, and soon, surveillance cameras.

"Here in San Diego, we have proven that the border infrastructure system does indeed work," Henry says. "It is highly effective."​

It works at relatively small sections. It hasn't worked to slow the overall numbers of illegal crosser's. They just go to different places to cross.

Oh, so you mean it DOES work where it is actually emplaced. I see. Soooooooo, if one were to you know....build it elsewhere, I guess that would work too then wouldn't it.

I guess the difference between a relatively small section of security enhanced fence and one that stretches for thousands of miles escapes you.

See the post above yours.....

All that expense and trouble and they still manage to build tunnels. We find an average of two sophisticated tunnels, some of them with rail systems every year. Only the smugglers know how many we don't find. I wonder how many pro fencer's have ever actually spent any time on the border areas of So. Cal, AZ, NM and Texas.

Yes, let them spend their time building tunnels. Those are surprisingly easy to find once you know how to. Trust me, if I were the one looking I would find them in a day or less and the cost would be negligible. It's simply amazing what you can do with remote sensing these days. Amazing I tell you!

 

[Rikurzhen]

From National Pravda Radio:

"It was an area that was out of control," Henry says. "There were over 100,000 aliens crossing through this area a year."

Today, Henry is assistant chief of the Border Patrol's San Diego sector. He says apprehensions here are down 95 percent, from 100,000 a year to 5,000 a year, largely because the single strand of cable marking the border was replaced by double — and in some places, triple — fencing.

The first fence, 10 feet high, is made of welded metal panels. The second fence, 15 feet high, consists of steel mesh, and the top is angled inward to make it harder to climb over. Finally, in high-traffic areas, there's also a smaller chain-link fence. In between the two main fences is 150 feet of "no man's land," an area that the Border Patrol sweeps with flood lights and trucks, and soon, surveillance cameras.

"Here in San Diego, we have proven that the border infrastructure system does indeed work," Henry says. "It is highly effective."​

It works at relatively small sections. It hasn't worked to slow the overall numbers of illegal crosser's. They just go to different places to cross.

Oh, so you mean it DOES work where it is actually emplaced. I see. Soooooooo, if one were to you know....build it elsewhere, I guess that would work too then wouldn't it.

I guess the difference between a relatively small section of security enhanced fence and one that stretches for thousands of miles escapes you.

See the post above yours.....

All that expense and trouble and they still manage to build tunnels. We find an average of two sophisticated tunnels, some of them with rail systems every year. Only the smugglers know how many we don't find. I wonder how many pro fencer's have ever actually spent any time on the border areas of So. Cal, AZ, NM and Texas.

Tunnel detection technologies exist. Alternatively, we can just set off underground explosions in likely tunnel locations and trap infiltrators under ground.

More effective though would be to use freed up resources to GATHER INTELLIGENCE on tunnel locations and then destroy them. A tunnel is a very capital intensive undertaking so destroying tunnels before they earn their backers a profit is a very good way of curtailing similar future undertakings.

 

[Vandalshandle]

It isn't against the law to arrest the people who knowingly hire them.

So you claim the entire problem is with those that hire them? That's like saying that if I leave my door unlock and a thief comes in and takes my belongings it's my fault for not locking the door. I've actually had someone tell me that I should be held responsible if a gun someone broke a window in my truck to steal and that was in the glove box as State law requires is used in a crime.

That is a poor comparison, no comparison at all actually. And I didn't say illegal hiring was the entire problem, I am pointing out that it is a major one, and one that can be addressed very easily it we had the will.

I agree it's a major problem but your entire post mentioned only the employers.

Deporting illegals would also be addressed very easily if we deported all of them then put armed guards at the border. Too many don't have the will to do that including those who think it's perfectly OK for them to commit a criminal act coming here simply because they are wanting to better themselves.

...so the government should use these armed guards to gun down people suspected of committing a misdemeanor without a trial?

I can hear the Founding Fathers turning over in their graves....

I believe the term is "catch and release"..... on THEIR side of the border. There's nothing in his post that implies killing them.

Sorry Westwall. That pesky constitution still gets in your way. In order for someone to be deported, he must be an "illegal alien". Only a court of law can make that determination. I cross the border all the time, and I am not an illegal alien.

 

[RKMBrown]

ok with me , start the country wide Arresting .

Can't it's against the law to arrest illegal immigrants.

It isn't against the law to arrest the people who knowingly hire them.

So you claim the entire problem is with those that hire them? That's like saying that if I leave my door unlock and a thief comes in and takes my belongings it's my fault for not locking the door. I've actually had someone tell me that I should be held responsible if a gun someone broke a window in my truck to steal and that was in the glove box as State law requires is used in a crime.

That is a poor comparison, no comparison at all actually. And I didn't say illegal hiring was the entire problem, I am pointing out that it is a major one, and one that can be addressed very easily it we had the will.

I agree it's a major problem but your entire post mentioned only the employers.

Deporting illegals would also be addressed very easily if we deported all of them then put armed guards at the border. Too many don't have the will to do that including those who think it's perfectly OK for them to commit a criminal act coming here simply because they are wanting to better themselves.

It's not a criminal act, it's a misdemeanor like a traffic ticket.

 

[Oldglory1]

My views aren't extremist, yours are. My views are pragmatic. I'm not the one suggesting 10's of billions of dollars be spent on a system that doesn't work and never has worked anywhere in the world. That is the definition of extremism.

From National Pravda Radio:

"It was an area that was out of control," Henry says. "There were over 100,000 aliens crossing through this area a year."

Today, Henry is assistant chief of the Border Patrol's San Diego sector. He says apprehensions here are down 95 percent, from 100,000 a year to 5,000 a year, largely because the single strand of cable marking the border was replaced by double — and in some places, triple — fencing.

The first fence, 10 feet high, is made of welded metal panels. The second fence, 15 feet high, consists of steel mesh, and the top is angled inward to make it harder to climb over. Finally, in high-traffic areas, there's also a smaller chain-link fence. In between the two main fences is 150 feet of "no man's land," an area that the Border Patrol sweeps with flood lights and trucks, and soon, surveillance cameras.

"Here in San Diego, we have proven that the border infrastructure system does indeed work," Henry says. "It is highly effective."​

It works at relatively small sections. It hasn't worked to slow the overall numbers of illegal crosser's. They just go to different places to cross.

Oh, so you mean it DOES work where it is actually emplaced. I see. Soooooooo, if one were to you know....build it elsewhere, I guess that would work too then wouldn't it.

I guess the difference between a relatively small section of security enhanced fence and one that stretches for thousands of miles escapes you.

What congress approved was 700 miles of double walled fencing. Those were the most porous areas of the border. So that's not a small section. Unfortunately congress didn't fund it.

 

[Oldglory1]

Can't it's against the law to arrest illegal immigrants.

It isn't against the law to arrest the people who knowingly hire them.

So you claim the entire problem is with those that hire them? That's like saying that if I leave my door unlock and a thief comes in and takes my belongings it's my fault for not locking the door. I've actually had someone tell me that I should be held responsible if a gun someone broke a window in my truck to steal and that was in the glove box as State law requires is used in a crime.

That is a poor comparison, no comparison at all actually. And I didn't say illegal hiring was the entire problem, I am pointing out that it is a major one, and one that can be addressed very easily it we had the will.

I agree it's a major problem but your entire post mentioned only the employers.

Deporting illegals would also be addressed very easily if we deported all of them then put armed guards at the border. Too many don't have the will to do that including those who think it's perfectly OK for them to commit a criminal act coming here simply because they are wanting to better themselves.

It's not a criminal act, it's a misdemeanor like a traffic ticket.

It's nothing like a traffic ticket. Coming here illegally is against our immigration laws and deportation is mandated. Can you be deported for a traffic ticket?

 

[Rikurzhen]

Can't it's against the law to arrest illegal immigrants.

It isn't against the law to arrest the people who knowingly hire them.

So you claim the entire problem is with those that hire them? That's like saying that if I leave my door unlock and a thief comes in and takes my belongings it's my fault for not locking the door. I've actually had someone tell me that I should be held responsible if a gun someone broke a window in my truck to steal and that was in the glove box as State law requires is used in a crime.

That is a poor comparison, no comparison at all actually. And I didn't say illegal hiring was the entire problem, I am pointing out that it is a major one, and one that can be addressed very easily it we had the will.

I agree it's a major problem but your entire post mentioned only the employers.

Deporting illegals would also be addressed very easily if we deported all of them then put armed guards at the border. Too many don't have the will to do that including those who think it's perfectly OK for them to commit a criminal act coming here simply because they are wanting to better themselves.

It's not a criminal act, it's a misdemeanor like a traffic ticket.

That's easy peasy to change. Congress simply reclassifies illegal crossing of the border by a non-American as a felony.

 

[Vandalshandle]

My views aren't extremist, yours are. My views are pragmatic. I'm not the one suggesting 10's of billions of dollars be spent on a system that doesn't work and never has worked anywhere in the world. That is the definition of extremism.

From National Pravda Radio:

"It was an area that was out of control," Henry says. "There were over 100,000 aliens crossing through this area a year."

Today, Henry is assistant chief of the Border Patrol's San Diego sector. He says apprehensions here are down 95 percent, from 100,000 a year to 5,000 a year, largely because the single strand of cable marking the border was replaced by double — and in some places, triple — fencing.

The first fence, 10 feet high, is made of welded metal panels. The second fence, 15 feet high, consists of steel mesh, and the top is angled inward to make it harder to climb over. Finally, in high-traffic areas, there's also a smaller chain-link fence. In between the two main fences is 150 feet of "no man's land," an area that the Border Patrol sweeps with flood lights and trucks, and soon, surveillance cameras.

"Here in San Diego, we have proven that the border infrastructure system does indeed work," Henry says. "It is highly effective."​

It works at relatively small sections. It hasn't worked to slow the overall numbers of illegal crosser's. They just go to different places to cross.

Oh, so you mean it DOES work where it is actually emplaced. I see. Soooooooo, if one were to you know....build it elsewhere, I guess that would work too then wouldn't it.

I guess the difference between a relatively small section of security enhanced fence and one that stretches for thousands of miles escapes you.

What congress approved was 700 miles of double walled fencing. Those were the most porous areas of the border. So that's not a small section. Unfortunately congress didn't fund it.

Damn! There goes my shovel and ladder business venture....

 

[RKMBrown]

It isn't against the law to arrest the people who knowingly hire them.

So you claim the entire problem is with those that hire them? That's like saying that if I leave my door unlock and a thief comes in and takes my belongings it's my fault for not locking the door. I've actually had someone tell me that I should be held responsible if a gun someone broke a window in my truck to steal and that was in the glove box as State law requires is used in a crime.

That is a poor comparison, no comparison at all actually. And I didn't say illegal hiring was the entire problem, I am pointing out that it is a major one, and one that can be addressed very easily it we had the will.

I agree it's a major problem but your entire post mentioned only the employers.

Deporting illegals would also be addressed very easily if we deported all of them then put armed guards at the border. Too many don't have the will to do that including those who think it's perfectly OK for them to commit a criminal act coming here simply because they are wanting to better themselves.

It's not a criminal act, it's a misdemeanor like a traffic ticket.

It's nothing like a traffic ticket. Coming here illegally is against our immigration laws and deportation is mandated. Can you be deported for a traffic ticket?

You can if you're not an American, and don't have a visa. Well you can unless the democrats are in charge. American's are not deported for any reason. Are you mentally handicapped?

 

[Oldglory1]

So you claim the entire problem is with those that hire them? That's like saying that if I leave my door unlock and a thief comes in and takes my belongings it's my fault for not locking the door. I've actually had someone tell me that I should be held responsible if a gun someone broke a window in my truck to steal and that was in the glove box as State law requires is used in a crime.

That is a poor comparison, no comparison at all actually. And I didn't say illegal hiring was the entire problem, I am pointing out that it is a major one, and one that can be addressed very easily it we had the will.

I agree it's a major problem but your entire post mentioned only the employers.

Deporting illegals would also be addressed very easily if we deported all of them then put armed guards at the border. Too many don't have the will to do that including those who think it's perfectly OK for them to commit a criminal act coming here simply because they are wanting to better themselves.

It's not a criminal act, it's a misdemeanor like a traffic ticket.

It's nothing like a traffic ticket. Coming here illegally is against our immigration laws and deportation is mandated. Can you be deported for a traffic ticket?

You can if you're not an American, and don't have a visa. Well you can unless the democrats are in charge. American's are not deported for any reason. Are you mentally handicapped?

I was referring to Americans getting a traffic ticket. No sheet that was my point Americans can't be deported for a traffic ticket so there is no comparison to them getting a traffic ticket and illegal aliens violating our immigration laws which the analogy evidently flew right over YOUR mentally handicapped brain. The punishment fits the crime in both cases. Get a ticket...pay a fine. Violate our immigration laws and you get deported. Jumping our border is only the first law they break. Many if not most are using fake and stolen ID's or committing tax evasion both are felonies. To compare all of the above to getting a traffic ticket is ludicrous . Illegal aliens don't even have a right to be in this country but a citizen with a traffic ticket does.

 

[Conservative65]

It isn't against the law to arrest the people who knowingly hire them.

So you claim the entire problem is with those that hire them? That's like saying that if I leave my door unlock and a thief comes in and takes my belongings it's my fault for not locking the door. I've actually had someone tell me that I should be held responsible if a gun someone broke a window in my truck to steal and that was in the glove box as State law requires is used in a crime.

That is a poor comparison, no comparison at all actually. And I didn't say illegal hiring was the entire problem, I am pointing out that it is a major one, and one that can be addressed very easily it we had the will.

I agree it's a major problem but your entire post mentioned only the employers.

Deporting illegals would also be addressed very easily if we deported all of them then put armed guards at the border. Too many don't have the will to do that including those who think it's perfectly OK for them to commit a criminal act coming here simply because they are wanting to better themselves.

It's not a criminal act, it's a misdemeanor like a traffic ticket.

That's easy peasy to change. Congress simply reclassifies illegal crossing of the border by a non-American as a felony.

Changing what it’s called won’t mean a thing unless we change what we DO.

 

[Conservative65]

It isn't against the law to arrest the people who knowingly hire them.

So you claim the entire problem is with those that hire them? That's like saying that if I leave my door unlock and a thief comes in and takes my belongings it's my fault for not locking the door. I've actually had someone tell me that I should be held responsible if a gun someone broke a window in my truck to steal and that was in the glove box as State law requires is used in a crime.

That is a poor comparison, no comparison at all actually. And I didn't say illegal hiring was the entire problem, I am pointing out that it is a major one, and one that can be addressed very easily it we had the will.

I agree it's a major problem but your entire post mentioned only the employers.

Deporting illegals would also be addressed very easily if we deported all of them then put armed guards at the border. Too many don't have the will to do that including those who think it's perfectly OK for them to commit a criminal act coming here simply because they are wanting to better themselves.

It's not a criminal act, it's a misdemeanor like a traffic ticket.

It's nothing like a traffic ticket. Coming here illegally is against our immigration laws and deportation is mandated. Can you be deported for a traffic ticket?

Since we have 20 million illegals here now, it doens't seem coming here illegally gets you as much as a speeding ticket.

 

[Conservative65]

So you claim the entire problem is with those that hire them? That's like saying that if I leave my door unlock and a thief comes in and takes my belongings it's my fault for not locking the door. I've actually had someone tell me that I should be held responsible if a gun someone broke a window in my truck to steal and that was in the glove box as State law requires is used in a crime.

That is a poor comparison, no comparison at all actually. And I didn't say illegal hiring was the entire problem, I am pointing out that it is a major one, and one that can be addressed very easily it we had the will.

I agree it's a major problem but your entire post mentioned only the employers.

Deporting illegals would also be addressed very easily if we deported all of them then put armed guards at the border. Too many don't have the will to do that including those who think it's perfectly OK for them to commit a criminal act coming here simply because they are wanting to better themselves.

...so the government should use these armed guards to gun down people suspected of committing a misdemeanor without a trial?

I can hear the Founding Fathers turning over in their graves....

The founding fathers would consider someone like you a traitor. Since those sneaking into the country don’t have Constitutional a Constitutional right to do so, they aren’t protected. If someone tried to sneak into my house other than the normal ways of entering, should I wait to see what they are doing?







I believe the term is "catch and release"..... on THEIR side of the border. There's nothing in his post that implies killing them.

Sorry Westwall. That pesky constitution still gets in your way. In order for someone to be deported, he must be an "illegal alien". Only a court of law can make that determination. I cross the border all the time, and I am not an illegal alien.

 

[RKMBrown]

That is a poor comparison, no comparison at all actually. And I didn't say illegal hiring was the entire problem, I am pointing out that it is a major one, and one that can be addressed very easily it we had the will.

I agree it's a major problem but your entire post mentioned only the employers.

Deporting illegals would also be addressed very easily if we deported all of them then put armed guards at the border. Too many don't have the will to do that including those who think it's perfectly OK for them to commit a criminal act coming here simply because they are wanting to better themselves.

It's not a criminal act, it's a misdemeanor like a traffic ticket.

It's nothing like a traffic ticket. Coming here illegally is against our immigration laws and deportation is mandated. Can you be deported for a traffic ticket?

You can if you're not an American, and don't have a visa. Well you can unless the democrats are in charge. American's are not deported for any reason. Are you mentally handicapped?

I was referring to Americans getting a traffic ticket. No sheet that was my point Americans can't be deported for a traffic ticket so there is no comparison to them getting a traffic ticket and illegal aliens violating our immigration laws which the analogy evidently flew right over YOUR mentally handicapped brain. The punishment fits the crime in both cases. Get a ticket...pay a fine. Violate our immigration laws and you get deported. Jumping our border is only the first law they break. Many if not most are using fake and stolen ID's or committing tax evasion both are felonies. To compare all of the above to getting a traffic ticket is ludicrous . Illegal aliens don't even have a right to be in this country but a citizen with a traffic ticket does.

Yet Obama won't do his job and deport them. Instead he gives them money, and a free ride to the state of their choice.

 

[Conservative65]

It works at relatively small sections. It hasn't worked to slow the overall numbers of illegal crosser's. They just go to different places to cross.

Right. So, extrapolate. The manpower resources adjacent to a fenced section can now be redeployed, thinned down, to sections which have more crossings. Keep extending the fence and you create a funneling effect, think of it like shooting fish in a barrel. Extend the fence across the entire border and then you can concentrate on detecting the tunnels and blowing ships out of the water.

The article indicated a large number of systems and manpower are used to maintain the fence in San Diego. Two fences, flood lights, a no man's land 150 feet wide, and trucks manned by border patrol.
It seems like you want to argue or ignore the many estimates of the cost of the fence strategy to cover the entire border. There really is no way around that cost. So why all the resistance against simply enforcing illegal hiring practices and laws that are cost effective and proven to be efficient where they have been applied? The answer is simple, corruption and the control special interest have over our politicians.

I don't care about the cost, just like I don't care about the cost of paying for police. I have no problem with employer sanctions at all, but unlike you, I'm not fixated on carting employers off to jail as some kind of perverse revenge fantasy. Fine, let's punish employers if you can create a coalition to bring that about, but let's not hold up less contentious approaches which will do the job.

Yes, there is corruption in the political system. Republicans are very aware of this, hence the battle between the grass roots who want to stop immigration and the Democratic and Republican politicians who want to expand it in order to please their paymasters. Getting politicians to pass laws to imprison employers is going to be a tougher sell than building a wall. Smart people tend to pick the lowest hanging fruit rather than doing nothing until the most difficult option becomes feasible.

We already have the laws, they just aren't enforced. And enforcing those laws is not a matter of revenge against business owners. It proposes the simple implementation of laws already on the books to use a pragmatic strategy to resolve and solve a national problem. Hire illegal's to work at your business and you get a hefty fine than makes your illegal hiring unprofitable. Do it again and you get a vacation.

And we also have laws against illegal infiltrators crossing the border but when government doesn't enforce the laws then we're in a bit of a pickle.

ICE could be raiding the State of the Union address and hauling away the infiltrator props the President has sitting in the audience, ICE could have arrested Obama's aunt and shipped her to Africa, ICE can raid schools and pick up infiltrator children, same with universities. We could be having glorious mass deportations if only the laws were faithfully executed.

If we can't count on laws being enforced, then an actual barrier to crossing is far, far, far better than no barrier, even if it is understaffed by purposeful design from footdragging politicians.

I agree it's a major problem but your entire post mentioned only the employers.

Deporting illegals would also be addressed very easily if we deported all of them then put armed guards at the border. Too many don't have the will to do that including those who think it's perfectly OK for them to commit a criminal act coming here simply because they are wanting to better themselves.

It's not a criminal act, it's a misdemeanor like a traffic ticket.

It's nothing like a traffic ticket. Coming here illegally is against our immigration laws and deportation is mandated. Can you be deported for a traffic ticket?

You can if you're not an American, and don't have a visa. Well you can unless the democrats are in charge. American's are not deported for any reason. Are you mentally handicapped?

I was referring to Americans getting a traffic ticket. No sheet that was my point Americans can't be deported for a traffic ticket so there is no comparison to them getting a traffic ticket and illegal aliens violating our immigration laws which the analogy evidently flew right over YOUR mentally handicapped brain. The punishment fits the crime in both cases. Get a ticket...pay a fine. Violate our immigration laws and you get deported. Jumping our border is only the first law they break. Many if not most are using fake and stolen ID's or committing tax evasion both are felonies. To compare all of the above to getting a traffic ticket is ludicrous . Illegal aliens don't even have a right to be in this country but a citizen with a traffic ticket does.

Yet Obama won't do his job and deport them. Instead he gives them money, and a free ride to the state of their choice.

Then sues States that do try to do something about it.