WHY health care needed reform

[bill5]

eh it was too easy a shot. And an irrelevant sidetrack besides. Back to the topic....

 

[saveliberty]

Okay, so we have a local hospital that delivers quality health care at a low cost compared to other hospitals in the state. Without this facility, we have to travel 20 miles away for services. Dangerous, expensive and burdensome. Know what one of our big problems is? Medicare reimbursement.

Yep, Medicare pays bigger city hospitals MORE for the same services. Basicly rewarding them for being less efficient and more expensive. This lower rate keeps the possibility of closure a constant threat.

We also have to request a certificate of need for every new bed or major piece of equipment from the federal government. Wonderful system where they know what you need more than us. It also takes a long time to get an answer. Takes a lot of adminstrative time and money to send in the paperwork too.

 

[Flopper]

Blue Cross Blue Shield of Michigan is a nonprofit corporation and an independent licensee of the Blue Cross and Blue Shield Association.

I thought you mean BC/BS in general, not simply Michigan. My bad.

So what's your point? Michigan sucks? Wow big news flash there.

Only 18% of our hospitals are for profit. Half the major clinics are nonprofit and third of the nursing homes are nonprofit. Compared to most industries, there is no profit motive in the healthcare which is the way it should be. Insurance companies are still mostly for profit.

 

[PeteEU]

Insurance companies are still mostly for profit.

Bingo.. and in here you have one of the major problems. Also these insurance companies live in a market with very little competition if at all and legislation that only has one goal.. to line the pockets of the insurance companies and hurt the people they serve. Another major problem is that most insurance is employer based, putting huge costs on American business and leaving many people who dont have a job without insurance.

 

[editec]

Health care needs to change because our society is changing.

It's really that simple.

There was a time when practically everybody who wanted could find a job that paid a living wage and also offered health care benefits.

Those days are done.

 

[bill5]

Only 18% of our hospitals are for profit. Half the major clinics are nonprofit and third of the nursing homes are nonprofit. Compared to most industries, there is no profit motive in the healthcare which is the way it should be. Insurance companies are still mostly for profit.

The thing is it's easy to play the "nonproft" game and yet profit. For example:

Dan Loepp's total compensation as Blue Cross CEO jumped to $2.75 million in 2010 | Crain's Detroit Business

Quite a bit of money for someone leading a "nonprofit" organization, don't you think? Yeah the company doesn't profit, just the people working there do

 

[Bern80]

Only 18% of our hospitals are for profit. Half the major clinics are nonprofit and third of the nursing homes are nonprofit. Compared to most industries, there is no profit motive in the healthcare which is the way it should be. Insurance companies are still mostly for profit.

The thing is it's easy to play the "nonproft" game and yet profit. For example:

Dan Loepp's total compensation as Blue Cross CEO jumped to $2.75 million in 2010 | Crain's Detroit Business

Quite a bit of money for someone leading a "nonprofit" organization, don't you think? Yeah the company doesn't profit, just the people working there do

No. The issue seems to be that people like you think, no profit = small salaries. That simply isn't the case.

 

[Brutus]

Only 18% of our hospitals are for profit. Half the major clinics are nonprofit and third of the nursing homes are nonprofit. Compared to most industries, there is no profit motive in the healthcare which is the way it should be. Insurance companies are still mostly for profit.

The thing is it's easy to play the "nonproft" game and yet profit. For example:

Dan Loepp's total compensation as Blue Cross CEO jumped to $2.75 million in 2010 | Crain's Detroit Business

Quite a bit of money for someone leading a "nonprofit" organization, don't you think? Yeah the company doesn't profit, just the people working there do

No. The issue seems to be that people like you think, no profit = small salaries. That simply isn't the case.

A liberal will lack the IQ to understand profit. Why would anyone invest money in a hospital for example if there was no profit from it. More importantly, how would you now if it was a competitive hospital if you could not measure the results in terms of profits. How would you know whether to invest more or less in that hospital.

Now you see why we are sure a liberal will have a low IQ. Sorry

The Red Chinese tried letting liberal bureaucrats figure out where to invest, 50 million slowly starved to death, then they switched to Republican capitalism and 50 million could suddenly afford automobiles.

 

[bill5]

lol - thank goodness, the wingnut cat fight begins (again)

The left sucks! No wait the right sucks! Bush! Obama! Tea Party! There's my opinion and the wrong one! My side is always right! Yours is always wrong! blah! etc! blah!

 

[Brutus]

lol - thank goodness, the wingnut cat fight begins (again)

The left sucks! No wait the right sucks! Bush! Obama! Tea Party! There's my opinion and the wrong one! My side is always right! Yours is always wrong! blah! etc! blah!

democracy is debate. If you're not intelligent enough to form a point of view and defend it then you don't belong in a democracy. Why not try Cuba?

 

[Flopper]

Only 18% of our hospitals are for profit. Half the major clinics are nonprofit and third of the nursing homes are nonprofit. Compared to most industries, there is no profit motive in the healthcare which is the way it should be. Insurance companies are still mostly for profit.

The thing is it's easy to play the "nonproft" game and yet profit. For example:

Dan Loepp's total compensation as Blue Cross CEO jumped to $2.75 million in 2010 | Crain's Detroit Business

Quite a bit of money for someone leading a "nonprofit" organization, don't you think? Yeah the company doesn't profit, just the people working there do

Technically there is no profit. Salaries can be high, but that's not the norm. United Healthcare which is for profit pays their CEO over 100 million.

IMHO, most medical care should be in the same category as other life saving services such as fire, rescue, police, and 911. Our lives and safety depend all these services. 911 doesn't ask for a credit card before dispatching life saving services and neither should the emergency room or the hospital.

 

[bill5]

Your said it yourself - technically there is no profit. But that's all it is, a technicality and legal-eze BS. That's my point.

 

[bill5]

democracy is debate.

But it is not the topic. If you're not intelligent enough to grasp a topic and reply with anything more than mindless inflammatory dribblings most 10 year olds would roll their eyes at, why not try remedial kindergarten?

 

[Flopper]

Your said it yourself - technically there is no profit. But that's all it is, a technicality and legal-eze BS. That's my point.

What would normally be called profit, the difference between revenue and expenses is called a surplus. A surplus can be used for salaries, expansion, or retained to for preservation of the organization. Ownership is a usually a trust, foundation, or nonprofit corporation. There is no stock and no dividends. Where a board of directions in for-profit corporation will push management to maximize profits, the Board of a nononprofit is likely to push management to maximize service. In other words the goal of a nonprofit is service not profits.

 

[Brutus]

the Board of a nononprofit is likely to push management to maximize service. In other words the goal of a nonprofit is service not profits.

actually you can't maximize service without tons of profit. How could MacDonalds, for example, service billions of people all over the world without tons and tones of profits to open up all those restaurants and hire all those people?

See why we are positive a liberal will have a low IQ? Sorry but what other conclusion is possible? Should we have a non-profit economy so people will be service oriented rather than evil Republican profit seekers!!

 

[Flopper]

the Board of a nononprofit is likely to push management to maximize service. In other words the goal of a nonprofit is service not profits.

actually you can't maximize service without tons of profit. How could MacDonalds, for example, service billions of people all over the world without tons and tones of profits to open up all those restaurants and hire all those people?

See why we are positive a liberal will have a low IQ? Sorry but what other conclusion is possible? Should we have a non-profit economy so people will be service oriented rather than evil Republican profit seekers!!

I totally disagree for two reasons. First a nonprofit can not produce a profit by definition. Secondly, a nonprofit health provider such as a hospital may add services with no expectation of increasing revenue. Our local hospital installed a half million dollars in air handling filtration to help prevent the spread of air borne diseases. I seriously doubt that it will add a dimes worth of revenue, but it will make the hospital a little safer for the patients. That's the difference in a for profit and nonprofit. The motive of a for- profit is to increase profits which may or may not increase service. The opposite is true for nonprofit.

 

[Bern80]

the Board of a nononprofit is likely to push management to maximize service. In other words the goal of a nonprofit is service not profits.

actually you can't maximize service without tons of profit. How could MacDonalds, for example, service billions of people all over the world without tons and tones of profits to open up all those restaurants and hire all those people?

See why we are positive a liberal will have a low IQ? Sorry but what other conclusion is possible? Should we have a non-profit economy so people will be service oriented rather than evil Republican profit seekers!!

I totally disagree for two reasons. First a nonprofit can not produce a profit by definition. Secondly, a nonprofit health provider such as a hospital may add services with no expectation of increasing revenue. Our local hospital installed a half million dollars in air handling filtration to help prevent the spread of air borne diseases. I seriously doubt that it will add a dimes worth of revenue, but it will make the hospital a little safer for the patients. That's the difference in a for profit and nonprofit. The motive of a for- profit is to increase profits which may or may not increase service. The opposite is true for nonprofit.

Just because a business calls itself a non-profit doesn't mean it can prevent itself from making more than it expends. You really think every non-profit organization takes a loss every year or figures happens to have it work out that they break exactly even every year?

 

[Flopper]

actually you can't maximize service without tons of profit. How could MacDonalds, for example, service billions of people all over the world without tons and tones of profits to open up all those restaurants and hire all those people?

See why we are positive a liberal will have a low IQ? Sorry but what other conclusion is possible? Should we have a non-profit economy so people will be service oriented rather than evil Republican profit seekers!!

I totally disagree for two reasons. First a nonprofit can not produce a profit by definition. Secondly, a nonprofit health provider such as a hospital may add services with no expectation of increasing revenue. Our local hospital installed a half million dollars in air handling filtration to help prevent the spread of air borne diseases. I seriously doubt that it will add a dimes worth of revenue, but it will make the hospital a little safer for the patients. That's the difference in a for profit and nonprofit. The motive of a for- profit is to increase profits which may or may not increase service. The opposite is true for nonprofit.

Just because a business calls itself a non-profit doesn't mean it can prevent itself from making more than it expends. You really think every non-profit organization takes a loss every year or figures happens to have it work out that they break exactly even every year?

Of course not. Most non profits have revenues that exceed their expenses and thus have a surplus. That surplus can not returned to owners. It must be used to improve, expand the service or retained. Since the owners which are usually a not for profit corporation or a trust do not receive dividends or any capital gains, their is no pressure from owners to increase profits because there are none. The purpose of the nonprofit is to maximize service and minimize cost which may or not increase surplus.

 

[Brutus]

I totally disagree for two reasons. First a nonprofit can not produce a profit by definition.

if they want to open a new McDonalds they need money whether you call it profit or not!!

Secondly, a nonprofit health provider such as a hospital may add services with no expectation of increasing revenue.

idiotic, a restaurant can be forced to add a grease trap, or paint their building for example, but neither increases revenue directly!!

Our local hospital installed a half million dollars in air handling filtration to help prevent the spread of air borne diseases. I seriously doubt that it will add a dimes worth of revenue, but it will make the hospital a little safer for the patients. That's the difference in a for profit and nonprofit. The motive of a for- profit is to increase profits which may or may not increase service. The opposite is true for nonprofit.

now does the silly liberal understand???????????

 

[saveliberty]

Of course not. Most non profits have revenues that exceed their expenses and thus have a surplus. That surplus can not returned to owners. It must be used to improve, expand the service or retained. Since the owners which are usually a not for profit corporation or a trust do not receive dividends or any capital gains, their is no pressure from owners to increase profits because there are none. The purpose of the nonprofit is to maximize service and minimize cost which may or not increase surplus.

Doesn't hold true for Medicare or Medicaid. It doesn't necessarily follow for the Red Cross, a public hospital or nonprofit insurance carrier either.