Why Gun Control is Bullshit

[Centinel]

You might want to point out the language in the Constitution that would enable congress to enact such legislation.

"Well Regulated Militia".

Done.

Go on. None of us are mind readers. Please explain how the existence of the words "well regulated militia" would enable congress to take guns away from all private citizens.

 

[Skull Pilot]

I didn't claim it either....I said... small, multi block areas....that is not saying just one.....but it doesn't change the fact that most of the shootings are in isolated areas in these cities and they aren't rampant throughout these cities....

I think you are desperately trying to pin our horrid murder rate on anything OTHER than the fact we have too many guns.

Point is, other countries have gang problems and minority problems. They don't have our murder rates because they don't have the guns.

Our murder rate is skewed by several urban areas with high rates,

Sorry but what happens in Detroit, Oakland, LA, and other high crime cities has nothing to do with the rest of America.

 

[2aguy]

Their criminals can get guns as easily as ours can...as we saw in france with the 3 terrorists and the shooting a week later in Marseilles and then the shooting in belgium, denmark and sweden......they just don't do it even though they have access to guns.....

Except, no, they needed a major terrorist network to supply them with weapons, as opposed to American crooks, who can just steal them from the home of the nearest 2nd Amendment Purist who isn't going to get no gun safe like the Founding Fathers wouldn't have.

No...they didn't't use a major network, they crossed an international border, easily, twice, and bought fully automatic rifles, pistols, hand grenades and a rocket propelled grenade in a Belgium train station for 5,000 dollars....Europe is awash in illegal guns from the Balkan wars, and Africa....

 

[Wildman]

I just realize the big corporations is the bigger threat.

i realized a long time ago you are your own worst enemy and a threat to humanity.

 

[NYcarbineer]

Is it okay to refuse to sell a gun to a gay person if you pretend your religion forbids it?

 

[2aguy]

Is it okay to refuse to sell a gun to a gay person if you pretend your religion forbids it?

I don't know of any religion that says that...unless they are using the gun to celebrate a gay wedding.......

 

[2aguy]

Their criminals can get guns as easily as ours can...as we saw in france with the 3 terrorists and the shooting a week later in Marseilles and then the shooting in belgium, denmark and sweden......they just don't do it even though they have access to guns.....

Except, no, they needed a major terrorist network to supply them with weapons, as opposed to American crooks, who can just steal them from the home of the nearest 2nd Amendment Purist who isn't going to get no gun safe like the Founding Fathers wouldn't have.

they don't need a major network....

This story tracks gun smuggling in Europe.....lots of it....

European Police Face Being Outgunned by Jihadists WIth Assault Rifles

Most of the smuggling is carried out by criminal gangs but many jihadists such as Coulibaly are well connected with criminal networks.

another story on ease terrorists get guns....

Getting a gun legally in Europe may be hard but terrorists have little trouble - The Washington Post

“There’s a book about 1,000 pages thick,” said Tonni Rigby, one of only two licensed firearms dealers in Copenhagen. “You have to know all of it.”
But if you want an illicit assault rifle, such as the one used by a 22-year-old to rake a Copenhagen cafe with 28 bullets on Saturday, all it takes are a few connections and some cash.
“It’s very easy to get such a weapon,” said Hans Jorgen Bonnichsen, a former operations director for the Danish security service PET. “It’s not only a problem for Denmark. It’s a problem for all of Europe.”

So....it is incredibly hard, if not impossible for law abiding Europeans to get guns....but incredibly easy for criminals and terrorists to get them.....

 

[jon_berzerk]

Is it okay to refuse to sell a gun to a gay person if you pretend your religion forbids it?

I don't know of any religion that says that...unless they are using the gun to celebrate a gay wedding.......

--LOL

that dude

comes up with the weirdest stuff



--LOL

 

[Conservative65]

Sounds like places where you need to move and live.

No, it just shows we CAN fix this country as soon as we stop pandering to your fetish.

So wanting to use a Constitutional right I have is a fetish? The only way to fix the country is for people like you to go elsewhere.

 

[Wildman]

...the gun show loophole...

that is something i am not aware of, can you define what this term means ? i have attended gun shows in many different states for over 50 years and i never saw a "loophole" for sale or displayed.

....+....

 

[Wildman]

"Well Regulated Militia".

"The right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed"

DONE !!

 

[bgr39]

Is it okay to refuse to sell a gun to a gay person if you pretend your religion forbids it?

Only IF he wants to shoot you with it!!
THAT is why you NEVER hand a loaded gun to ANYONE!

 

[bgr39]

Their criminals can get guns as easily as ours can...as we saw in france with the 3 terrorists and the shooting a week later in Marseilles and then the shooting in belgium, denmark and sweden......they just don't do it even though they have access to guns.....

Except, no, they needed a major terrorist network to supply them with weapons, as opposed to American crooks, who can just steal them from the home of the nearest 2nd Amendment Purist who isn't going to get no gun safe like the Founding Fathers wouldn't have.

they don't need a major network....

This story tracks gun smuggling in Europe.....lots of it....

European Police Face Being Outgunned by Jihadists WIth Assault Rifles

Most of the smuggling is carried out by criminal gangs but many jihadists such as Coulibaly are well connected with criminal networks.

another story on ease terrorists get guns....

Getting a gun legally in Europe may be hard but terrorists have little trouble - The Washington Post

“There’s a book about 1,000 pages thick,” said Tonni Rigby, one of only two licensed firearms dealers in Copenhagen. “You have to know all of it.”
But if you want an illicit assault rifle, such as the one used by a 22-year-old to rake a Copenhagen cafe with 28 bullets on Saturday, all it takes are a few connections and some cash.
“It’s very easy to get such a weapon,” said Hans Jorgen Bonnichsen, a former operations director for the Danish security service PET. “It’s not only a problem for Denmark. It’s a problem for all of Europe.”

So....it is incredibly hard, if not impossible for law abiding Europeans to get guns....but incredibly easy for criminals and terrorists to get them.....

Gee, just look how easy it was to smuggle weapons, some fully-auto, across the Mexican border (FAST + FURIOUS).
.............................................. with the help of Holder.

 

[bgr39]

...the gun show loophole...

that is something i am not aware of, can you define what this term means ? i have attended gun shows in many different states for over 50 years and i never saw a "loophole" for sale or displayed.

....+....

I too have been to many, many, many gun shows and have never heard of ANYONE being able to set up a table to sell guns from, without having a FFL.
I have NEVER heard of a gun transaction at a gun show where neither the buyer nor the seller DIDN'T have a FFL.

 

[NYcarbineer]

Is it okay to refuse to sell a gun to a gay person if you pretend your religion forbids it?

I don't know of any religion that says that...unless they are using the gun to celebrate a gay wedding.......

I don't any religion that 'says' you cannot do business with a gay person. Can you list them and cite the specific instructions?

 

[JoeB131]

Go on. None of us are mind readers. Please explain how the existence of the words "well regulated militia" would enable congress to take guns away from all private citizens.

Well regulated militia. You can only have a gun if you are in the militia. Done.

 

[JoeB131]

No...they didn't't use a major network, they crossed an international border, easily, twice, and bought fully automatic rifles, pistols, hand grenades and a rocket propelled grenade in a Belgium train station for 5,000 dollars....Europe is awash in illegal guns from the Balkan wars, and Africa....

Yes, and where do you think they got $5000? Major Terrorist Network.

 

[JoeB131]

So wanting to use a Constitutional right I have is a fetish? The only way to fix the country is for people like you to go elsewhere.

NO, the way to fix this country is to BITCHSLAP the gun nut, the religious nuts and eveyr other fucking tool who lets big corporations fuck us.

 

[The2ndAmendment]

You might want to point out the language in the Constitution that would enable congress to enact such legislation.

"Well Regulated Militia".

Done.

How many times must you be told (and the SCOTUS reaffirmed in Heller) that REGULATED means DISCIPLINED, as in "British Regulars" which were line infantry. The term "well regulated" clock is still in use for a highly attuned/precise gear movement/cutting/function.

How many times are you going to tell this lie, and I have to catch you and correct it for everyone else reading?

In District of Columbia v. Heller (2008), the U.S. Supreme Court stated that the adjective 'well-regulated' implies nothing more than the imposition of proper discipline and training.

he Random House College Dictionary (1980) gives four definitions for the word "regulate," which were all in use during the Colonial period and one more definition dating from 1690 (Oxford English Dictionary, 2nd Edition, 1989). They are:

1) To control or direct by a rule, principle, method, etc.
2) To adjust to some standard or requirement as for amount, degree, etc.

3) To adjust so as to ensure accuracy of operation.

4) To put in good order.

[obsolete sense]
b. Of troops: Properly disciplined. Obs. rare-1.

1690 Lond. Gaz. No. 2568/3 We hear likewise that the French are in a great Allarm in Dauphine and Bresse, not having at present 1500 Men of regulated Troops on that side.
We can begin to deduce what well-regulated meant from Alexander Hamilton's words in Federalist Paper No. 29:

The project of disciplining all the militia of the United States is as futile as it would be injurious if it were capable of being carried into execution. A tolerable expertness in military movements is a business that requires time and practice. It is not a day, nor a week nor even a month, that will suffice for the attainment of it. To oblige the great body of the yeomanry and of the other classes of the citizens to be under arms for the purpose of going through military exercises and evolutions, as often as might be necessary to acquire the degree of perfection which would entitle them to the character of a well regulated militia, would be a real grievance to the people and a serious public inconvenience and loss.
--- The Federalist Papers, No. 29.
Hamilton indicates a well-regulated militia is a state of preparedness obtained after rigorous and persistent training. Note the use of 'disciplining' which indicates discipline could be synonymous with well-trained.

This quote from the Journals of the Continental Congress, 1774-1789 also conveys the meaning of well regulated:

Resolved , That this appointment be conferred on experienced and vigilant general officers, who are acquainted with whatever relates to the general economy, manoeuvres and discipline of a well regulated army.
--- Saturday, December 13, 1777.In the passage that follows, do you think the U.S. government was concerned because the Creek Indians' tribal regulations were superior to those of the Wabash or was it because they represented a better trained and disciplined fighting force?That the strength of the Wabash Indians who were principally the object of the resolve of the 21st of July 1787, and the strength of the Creek Indians is very different. That the said Creeks are not only greatly superior in numbers but are more united, better regulated, and headed by a man whose talents appear to have fixed him in their confidence. That from the view of the object your Secretary has been able to take he conceives that the only effectual mode of acting against the said Creeks in case they should persist in their hostilities would be by making an invasion of their country with a powerful body of well regulated troopsalways ready to combat and able to defeat any combination of force the said Creeks could oppose and to destroy their towns and provisions.
--- Saturday, December 13, 1777.I am unacquainted with the extent of your works, and consequently ignorant of the number or men necessary to man them. If your present numbers should be insufficient for that purpose, I would then by all means advise your making up the deficiency out of the best regulated militia that can be got.
--- George Washington (The Writings of George Washington, pp. 503-4, (G.P. Putnam & Sons, pub.)(1889))The above quote is clearly not a request for a militia with the best set of regulations. (For brevity the entire passage is not shown and this quote should not be construed to imply Washington favored militias, in fact he thought little of them, as the full passage indicates.)But Dr Sir I am Afraid it would blunt the keen edge they have at present which might be keept sharp for the Shawnese &c: I am convinced it would be Attended by considerable desertions. And perhaps raise a Spirit of Discontent not easily Queld amongst the best regulated troops, but much more so amongst men unused to the Yoak of Military Discipline.
--- Letter from Colonel William Fleming to Col. Adam Stephen, Oct 8, 1774, pp. 237-8. (Documentary History of Dunmore's War, 1774, Wisconsin historical society, pub. (1905))And finally, a late-17th century comparison between the behavior of a large collection of seahorses and well-regulated soldiers:One of the Seamen that had formerly made a Greenland Voyage for Whale-Fishing, told us that in that country he had seen very great Troops of those Sea-Horses ranging upon Land, sometimes three or four hundred in a Troop: Their great desire, he says, is to roost themselves on Land in the Warm Sun; and Whilst they sleep, they apppoint one to stand Centinel, and watch a certain time; and when that time's expir'd, another takes his place of Watching, and the first Centinel goes to sleep, &c. observing the strict Discipline, as a Body of Well-regulated Troops
--- (Letters written from New-England, A. D. 1686. P. 47, John Dutton (1867))
The quoted passages support the idea that a well-regulated militia was synonymous with one that was thoroughly trained and disciplined, and as a result, well-functioning. That description fits most closely with the "to put in good order" definition supplied by the Random House dictionary. The Oxford dictionary's definition also appears to fit if one considers discipline in a military context to include or imply well-trained.



What about the Amendment's text itself? Considering the adjective "well" and the context of the militia clause, which is more likely to ensure the security of a free state, a militia governed by numerous laws (or the proper amount of regulation [depending on the meaning of "well"] ) or a well-disciplined and trained militia? This brief textual analysis also suggests "to put in good order" is the correct interpretation of well regulated, signifying a well disciplined, trained, and functioning militia.

And finally, when regulated is used as an adjective, its meaning varies depending on the noun its modifying and of course the context. For example: well regulated liberty (properly controlled), regulated rifle (adjusted for accuracy), and regulated commerce (governed by regulations) all express a different meaning for regulated. This is by no means unusual, just as the word, bear, conveys a different meaning depending on the word it modifies: bearing arms, bearing fruit, or bearing gifts.

 

[JoeB131]

"Well Regulated Militia".

"The right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed"

DONE !!

Okay. The militia is the people. So we can regulate which members of the militia have guns and how many.

DONE!