Why Gun Control is Bullshit

[The2ndAmendment]

So wanting to use a Constitutional right I have is a fetish? The only way to fix the country is for people like you to go elsewhere.

NO, the way to fix this country is to BITCHSLAP the gun nut, the religious nuts and eveyr other fucking tool who lets big corporations fuck us.

Please attempt to BITCHSLAP (which means genocide) gun owners.

 

[JoeB131]

How many times must you be told (and the SCOTUS reaffirmed in Heller) that REGULATED means DISCIPLINED, as in "British Regulars" which were line infantry. The term "well regulated" clock is still in use for a highly attuned/precise gear movement/cutting/function.

How many times are you going to tell this lie, and I have to catch you and correct it for everyone else reading?

If the reading in Heller was clear, 1) It wouldn't have taken 200 years to get there and 2) It would have been a 9-0 decision, not a 5-4 one.

Scalia takes a dirt nap, and 'Well-regulated" means we can have common sense gun laws.

 

[JoeB131]

Please attempt to BITCHSLAP (which means genocide) gun owners.

Happily.

Wasn't this the most awesome thing ever?

BWhahahahahahahahahahaha

 

[JoeB131]

Gee, just look how easy it was to smuggle weapons, some fully-auto, across the Mexican border (FAST + FURIOUS).
.............................................. with the help of Holder.

You mean out of the millions of guns that the gun industry smuggles into Mexico, you're upset about the couple dozen Holder didn't track?

It's only bad when the Black Guy does it.

 

[The2ndAmendment]

How many times must you be told (and the SCOTUS reaffirmed in Heller) that REGULATED means DISCIPLINED, as in "British Regulars" which were line infantry. The term "well regulated" clock is still in use for a highly attuned/precise gear movement/cutting/function.

How many times are you going to tell this lie, and I have to catch you and correct it for everyone else reading?

If the reading in Heller was clear, 1) It wouldn't have taken 200 years to get there and 2) It would have been a 9-0 decision, not a 5-4 one.

Scalia takes a dirt nap, and 'Well-regulated" means we can have common sense gun laws.

The Random House College Dictionary (1980) gives four definitions for the word "regulate," which were all in use during the Colonial period and one more definition dating from 1690 (Oxford English Dictionary, 2nd Edition, 1989). They are:

1) To control or direct by a rule, principle, method, etc.
2) To adjust to some standard or requirement as for amount, degree, etc.

3) To adjust so as to ensure accuracy of operation.

4) To put in good order.

[obsolete sense]
b. Of troops: Properly disciplined. Obs. rare-1.

1690 Lond. Gaz. No. 2568/3 We hear likewise that the French are in a great Allarm in Dauphine and Bresse, not having at present 1500 Men of regulated Troops on that side.
We can begin to deduce what well-regulated meant from Alexander Hamilton's words in Federalist Paper No. 29:

The project of disciplining all the militia of the United States is as futile as it would be injurious if it were capable of being carried into execution. A tolerable expertness in military movements is a business that requires time and practice. It is not a day, nor a week nor even a month, that will suffice for the attainment of it. To oblige the great body of the yeomanry and of the other classes of the citizens to be under arms for the purpose of going through military exercises and evolutions, as often as might be necessary to acquire the degree of perfection which would entitle them to the character of a well regulated militia, would be a real grievance to the people and a serious public inconvenience and loss.
--- The Federalist Papers, No. 29.
Hamilton indicates a well-regulated militia is a state of preparedness obtained after rigorous and persistent training. Note the use of 'disciplining' which indicates discipline could be synonymous with well-trained.

This quote from the Journals of the Continental Congress, 1774-1789 also conveys the meaning of well regulated:

Resolved , That this appointment be conferred on experienced and vigilant general officers, who are acquainted with whatever relates to the general economy, manoeuvres and discipline of a well regulated army.
--- Saturday, December 13, 1777.In the passage that follows, do you think the U.S. government was concerned because the Creek Indians' tribal regulations were superior to those of the Wabash or was it because they represented a better trained and disciplined fighting force?That the strength of the Wabash Indians who were principally the object of the resolve of the 21st of July 1787, and the strength of the Creek Indians is very different. That the said Creeks are not only greatly superior in numbers but are more united, better regulated, and headed by a man whose talents appear to have fixed him in their confidence. That from the view of the object your Secretary has been able to take he conceives that the only effectual mode of acting against the said Creeks in case they should persist in their hostilities would be by making an invasion of their country with a powerful body of well regulated troopsalways ready to combat and able to defeat any combination of force the said Creeks could oppose and to destroy their towns and provisions.
--- Saturday, December 13, 1777.I am unacquainted with the extent of your works, and consequently ignorant of the number or men necessary to man them. If your present numbers should be insufficient for that purpose, I would then by all means advise your making up the deficiency out of the best regulated militia that can be got.
--- George Washington (The Writings of George Washington, pp. 503-4, (G.P. Putnam & Sons, pub.)(1889))The above quote is clearly not a request for a militia with the best set of regulations. (For brevity the entire passage is not shown and this quote should not be construed to imply Washington favored militias, in fact he thought little of them, as the full passage indicates.)But Dr Sir I am Afraid it would blunt the keen edge they have at present which might be keept sharp for the Shawnese &c: I am convinced it would be Attended by considerable desertions. And perhaps raise a Spirit of Discontent not easily Queld amongst the best regulated troops, but much more so amongst men unused to the Yoak of Military Discipline.
--- Letter from Colonel William Fleming to Col. Adam Stephen, Oct 8, 1774, pp. 237-8. (Documentary History of Dunmore's War, 1774, Wisconsin historical society, pub. (1905))And finally, a late-17th century comparison between the behavior of a large collection of seahorses and well-regulated soldiers:One of the Seamen that had formerly made a Greenland Voyage for Whale-Fishing, told us that in that country he had seen very great Troops of those Sea-Horses ranging upon Land, sometimes three or four hundred in a Troop: Their great desire, he says, is to roost themselves on Land in the Warm Sun; and Whilst they sleep, they apppoint one to stand Centinel, and watch a certain time; and when that time's expir'd, another takes his place of Watching, and the first Centinel goes to sleep, &c. observing the strict Discipline, as a Body of Well-regulated Troops
--- (Letters written from New-England, A. D. 1686. P. 47, John Dutton (1867))
The quoted passages support the idea that a well-regulated militia was synonymous with one that was thoroughly trained and disciplined, and as a result, well-functioning. That description fits most closely with the "to put in good order" definition supplied by the Random House dictionary. The Oxford dictionary's definition also appears to fit if one considers discipline in a military context to include or imply well-trained.



What about the Amendment's text itself? Considering the adjective "well" and the context of the militia clause, which is more likely to ensure the security of a free state, a militia governed by numerous laws (or the proper amount of regulation [depending on the meaning of "well"] ) or a well-disciplined and trained militia? This brief textual analysis also suggests "to put in good order" is the correct interpretation of well regulated, signifying a well disciplined, trained, and functioning militia.

And finally, when regulated is used as an adjective, its meaning varies depending on the noun its modifying and of course the context. For example: well regulated liberty (properly controlled), regulated rifle (adjusted for accuracy), and regulated commerce (governed by regulations) all express a different meaning for regulated. This is by no means unusual, just as the word, bear, conveys a different meaning depending on the word it modifies: bearing arms, bearing fruit, or bearing gifts.

 

[JoeB131]

The Random House College Dictionary (1980) gives four definitions for the word "regulate," which were all in use during the Colonial period and one more definition dating from 1690 (Oxford English Dictionary, 2nd Edition, 1989). They are:

who cares...

This is just your an Antonin Scalia's opinion...

For most of our history , it was UNDERSTOOD the government could regulate gun ownership and sales under the "Well-Regulated" provisions of the Second Amendment, and it was even a bit of common sense that it should.

Crap, in the 1960's, when the Black Panthers were walking around with guns, the NRA got the states to craft laws to put an end to that nonsense, and Governors like Ronald Reagan (remember him?) Signed them.

 

[Centinel]

Go on. None of us are mind readers. Please explain how the existence of the words "well regulated militia" would enable congress to take guns away from all private citizens.

Well regulated militia. You can only have a gun if you are in the militia. Done.

Please cite where the constitution says one may only have a gun if he is in the militia.

Please cide under which of congress' enumerated powers would such legislation would fall.

 

[bgr39]

Gee, just look how easy it was to smuggle weapons, some fully-auto, across the Mexican border (FAST + FURIOUS).
.............................................. with the help of Holder.

You mean out of the millions of guns that the gun industry smuggles into Mexico, you're upset about the couple dozen Holder didn't track?

It's only bad when the Black Guy does it.

In fast + furious, Holder illegally SENT 2500 guns, some of them fully-auto, to Mexico, where they have been used in hundreds of murders, including two federal agents.
Holder never informed the Mexican government of the illegal guns he sent to the mexican drug cartel.
THAT is international gun-smuggling.
The blood of American agents and over 200 innocent Mexican civilians is on Holder's hands, and by extension, obama's hands.

 

[M14 Shooter]

Go on. None of us are mind readers. Please explain how the existence of the words "well regulated militia" would enable congress to take guns away from all private citizens.

Well regulated militia. You can only have a gun if you are in the militia. Done.

Please cite where the constitution says one may only have a gun if he is in the militia.
Please cide under which of congress' enumerated powers would such legislation would fall.

Joe is lying to you. He knows it.

 

[2aguy]

Gee, just look how easy it was to smuggle weapons, some fully-auto, across the Mexican border (FAST + FURIOUS).
.............................................. with the help of Holder.

You mean out of the millions of guns that the gun industry smuggles into Mexico, you're upset about the couple dozen Holder didn't track?

It's only bad when the Black Guy does it.

and again..most guns in South, Central and Mexico...are from Europe and China...not the U.S.

 

[JoeB131]

Please cite where the constitution says one may only have a gun if he is in the militia.

Please cide under which of congress' enumerated powers would such legislation would fall.

a well regulated militia, being essential to a free state.

We can also cite Article 1, Section 8, which states the government regulates militias and provides for them.

 

[JoeB131]

and again..most guns in South, Central and Mexico...are from Europe and China...not the U.S.

No they're not.

MEXICO CITY 253 000 U.S. guns smuggled to Mexico annually study finds World McClatchy DC

MEXICO CITY — Some 2.2 percent of all U.S. gun sales are made to smuggling rings that take firearms to Mexico, a scale of illegal trafficking that’s “much higher than widely assumed,” an academic study released Monday found.

An average of 253,000 weapons purchased in the United States head south of the border each year, according to the study by four scholars at the University of San Diego’s Trans-Border Institute and the Igarape Institute, a research center in Rio de Janeiro, Brazil.

Profit margins at many gun stores are razor thin, and thousands of U.S. gun vendors would go out of business without the illicit traffic to Mexico, said Topher McDougal, an economist educated at the Massachusetts Institute of Technology who’s one of the study’s authors.


Read more here: MEXICO CITY 253 000 U.S. guns smuggled to Mexico annually study finds World McClatchy DC

 

[C_Clayton_Jones]

"Why Gun Control is Bullshit"

Ignorant nonsense.

Firearm regulatory measures are perfectly appropriate provided they comport with the Constitution, as the Second Amendment authorizes government to regulate firearms.

 

[Geaux4it]

and again..most guns in South, Central and Mexico...are from Europe and China...not the U.S.

No they're not.

MEXICO CITY 253 000 U.S. guns smuggled to Mexico annually study finds World McClatchy DC

MEXICO CITY — Some 2.2 percent of all U.S. gun sales are made to smuggling rings that take firearms to Mexico, a scale of illegal trafficking that’s “much higher than widely assumed,” an academic study released Monday found.

An average of 253,000 weapons purchased in the United States head south of the border each year, according to the study by four scholars at the University of San Diego’s Trans-Border Institute and the Igarape Institute, a research center in Rio de Janeiro, Brazil.

Profit margins at many gun stores are razor thin, and thousands of U.S. gun vendors would go out of business without the illicit traffic to Mexico, said Topher McDougal, an economist educated at the Massachusetts Institute of Technology who’s one of the study’s authors.


Read more here: MEXICO CITY 253 000 U.S. guns smuggled to Mexico annually study finds World McClatchy DC

Thats because your boy Holder let the gun go to the cartel. Then they use them to kill our agents.

-Geaux

 

[2aguy]

Where guns in Mexico actually come from.....

http://www.frontpagemag.com/2011/ryan-mauro/where-drug-cartels-really-get-their-arms/2/


When all is said and done, only 17 percent of the guns seized by the Mexican authorities from the drug lords were actually traced back to the U.S. The incorrect assumption that 90 percent of the cartels’ guns come from the U.S., though, continues to be regularly cited by the media and officials. The highly-respected STRATFOR intelligence company agrees that the statistic is incorrect. The group likewise explained that only 3,480 guns were traced back to the U.S., which equals 12 percent of the total arms seized by the Mexican authorities in 2008 and less than 48 percent of those sent for tracing.

“According to the figures presented by the GAO [Government Accountability Office], there is no evidence to support the assertion that 90 percent of the guns used by the Mexican cartels come from the United States—especially when not even 50 percent of those that were submitted for tracing were ultimately found to be of U.S. origin,” STRATFOR concluded.


Mexico s Gun Supply and the 90 Percent Myth Stratfor

By the Numbers

As we discussed in a previous analysis, the 90 percent number was derived from a June 2009 U.S. Government Accountability Office (GAO) report to Congress on U.S. efforts to combat arms trafficking to Mexico (see external link).

According to the GAO report, some 30,000 firearms were seized from criminals by Mexican authorities in 2008. Of these 30,000 firearms, information pertaining to 7,200 of them (24 percent) was submitted to the U.S. Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives (ATF) for tracing. Of these 7,200 guns, only about 4,000 could be traced by the ATF, and of these 4,000, some 3,480 (87 percent) were shown to have come from the United States.

This means that the 87 percent figure relates to the number of weapons submitted by the Mexican government to the ATF that could be successfully traced and not from the total number of weapons seized by Mexican authorities or even from the total number of weapons submitted to the ATF for tracing. In fact, the 3,480 guns positively traced to the United States equals less than 12 percent of the total arms seized in Mexico in 2008 and less than 48 percent of all those submitted by the Mexican government to the ATF for tracing. This means that almost 90 percent of the guns seized in Mexico in 2008 were not traced back to the United States.

..........

There has clearly been a long and well-documented history of arms smuggling across the U.S.-Mexico border, but it is important to recognize that, while the United States is a significant source of certain classes of weapons and ammunition, it is by no means the source of 90 percent of the weapons used by the Mexican cartels, as is commonly asserted.

 

[ralfy]

The implementation of "well-regulated militia" is seen in the Militia Acts, which forced males of a certain age range (and with few exceptions) to obtain the equivalent of battle rifles and ammunition and receive training annually with units controlled by the federal government.

That is clearly an example of gun control.

The Militia Act of 1903 called for regulation, etc., of the National Guard. These and others are part of the history of national service:

National service in the United States - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia

 

[2aguy]

The implementation of "well-regulated militia" is seen in the Militia Acts, which forced males of a certain age range (and with few exceptions) to obtain the equivalent of battle rifles and ammunition and receive training annually with units controlled by the federal government.

That is clearly an example of gun control.

The Militia Act of 1903 called for regulation, etc., of the National Guard. These and others are part of the history of national service:

National service in the United States - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia

Why is it that you guys never see that little "comma" the one that seperates and defines the 2nd Amendment and clearly states.....the right of the PEOPLE to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed.....it doesn't complete the amendment by saying the militia shall have the right to keep and bear arms....it again says the PEOPLE have the right to keep and bear arms........

That is why we can't trust you anti-gun nuts.................

 

[JoeB131]

Thats because your boy Holder let the gun go to the cartel. Then they use them to kill our agents.

Uh, no. 250,000 guns get smuggled out of the US to Mexico every year.

Fast and FUrious, which was started under Idiot Bush, lost track of a mere 300 of them.

 

[JoeB131]

Where guns in Mexico actually come from.....

Okay, when you quote Frontpage Magazine, you lose all credibility.

 

[Geaux4it]

Thats because your boy Holder let the gun go to the cartel. Then they use them to kill our agents.

Uh, no. 250,000 guns get smuggled out of the US to Mexico every year.

Fast and FUrious, which was started under Idiot Bush, lost track of a mere 300 of them.

I could care less. More dead mexicans equals less taxes and votes

-Geaux