why does the right unquestionably trust big business?

[AVG-JOE]

The one thing that I know to be true, Marc...is that if you want something to cost three times as much and take twice as long to get done...you let the government do it.

It's not that I trust businesses unquestionably...it's that I KNOW that government is inept.

Bullshit. Don't mistake a government with poor leadership for ineptness. In spite of the rumors, most federal programs with a direct impact are run efficiently.

Medicare is one of the largest health insurers and they run at 95% to 98% efficiency, depending on whose numbers you look at. Meaning that the overhead to administer the Medicare insurance program is 3% to 5% and 95 to 98 cents out of every dollar in premiums and taxes collected is paid out in benefits.

The BEST run private health insurers run between 75% and 80% efficiency. Meaning 20 to 25 cents of your premium dollar goes to overhead and only 75 to 80 cents is available to pay claims.

What you call "efficiency" is actually them refusing to pay the whole bill

How are those costs passed on?


If every widget I made I got to pass 95 percent of the cost off to someone else
well yeah, it would look pretty good too


By 2049, Medicare, Medicaid and Social Security will consume all tax revenues. Medicare spending is adding to future deficits faster than any other spending.

What you're talking about are valid points but have nothing to do with how efficiently the bureaucracy is managed.

The fact is that only 75 to 80 cents of our 'health care dollars' paid in trust to our private health insurance bureaucracies goes toward paying claims and the government runs their bureaucracy at an efficiency of 95 to 98 cents per dollar collected benefiting the customers DIRECTLY. It's not rocket science.

One can claim that the private insurer bureaucracies are worth the difference (I would disagree), but one can not say the government is inefficient when compared to private bureaucracies doing exactly the same service. The numbers don't support the thesis.

 

[AVG-JOE]

The one thing that I know to be true, Marc...is that if you want something to cost three times as much and take twice as long to get done...you let the government do it.

It's not that I trust businesses unquestionably...it's that I KNOW that government is inept.

Bullshit. Don't mistake a government with poor leadership for ineptness. In spite of the rumors, most federal programs with a direct impact are run efficiently.

Medicare is one of the largest health insurers and they run at 95% to 98% efficiency, depending on whose numbers you look at. Meaning that the overhead to administer the Medicare insurance program is 3% to 5% and 95 to 98 cents out of every dollar in premiums and taxes collected is paid out in benefits.

The BEST run private health insurers run between 75% and 80% efficiency. Meaning 20 to 25 cents of your premium dollar goes to overhead and only 75 to 80 cents is available to pay claims.

Sir, yoar Drunk with Power.



peace...

I've stated the same thing several times before in other threads...
Am I going to have to start linking to my past to prove that I'm still the same old Joe even though I can now walk on water and turn water into beer? (I'm not a big fan of wine)

 

[PixieStix]

Why does the left unquestionably trust big government?

Hmmm?

 

[AVG-JOE]

Why did you lie?

In my opinion it is no lie. King George was an attitude that seems to have skipped the pond and the RW'ers have caught it like a contagion. Of course those who are afflicted live in a state of denial and think that any objective onlooker is some sort of liar or worse. That's ok because Iahvae a fair King who does right by me. I don;t need to worship Wall Street, globalism or how much capital gains taxes I don't pay.

Then your opinion is based on a lie. Do you think we need big government?

The role of government is to educate the populous, build and maintain the infrastructure we share, and defend both from attack.

It's a big country - hell yes we need a big government! We don't necessarily need a government large enough to have troops permanently stationed in every corner of the globe, but yes, we face a daunting education task and we have a LOT of infrastructure that needs simple maintenance attention, as well as a need for additional infrastructure and upgrades.

We, The People have a LOT of work to do before our kids can start reaching for the stars in earnest.

 

[AVG-JOE]

Wait a minute. The problem seems to be that the Obama administration unquestionably trusts big business. Wasn't Solyndra a "big business"? It seems that the president forced the energy secretary to fund a "big business" that was going under.

There is nothing wrong with 'Big Business', per se - just like there's nothing wrong with a relationship between business and politics - in fact it's essential in a capitalist economy.

The secret to maintaining any semblance of responsibility, accountability and fairness is utter transparency in those relationships.

Every political dollar accounted for and associated with a decision making human or board of humans and every political advertisement signed by the human or humans responsible for it.

If we are to remain free, restrictions on politics can never be allowed to happen. Besides, restricting political activity on the part of business or individuals would only lead to corruption of another sort. The only answer is complete transparency.

 

[AVG-JOE]

why does the right unquestionably trust big business?

Simple. We don't Despite you thinking we do. We are fully aware the Big Business exists to Make Money, and should never simply be trusted and not have any Kind of Over site at all.

What we do Trust Big Business, and any Business to do, is Create Wealth, and Generate Economic Activity and Jobs. Being Profit Driven is not all Bad. It is that Drive that Leads to Innovation of New Industries and Products, and it is that Drive that leads the Small Business employing 20 People to Grow into the Company Employing 1000 People.

Only the Most Partisan Hack people on the right, will not admit that American Capitalism has some rather Big Flaws. However there is no Denying what American Capitalism was able to Create. A Nation of 300 Million living one of the Highest Standards of Living on earth. A Nation where even most of the poor are Rich in comparison with the Rest of the worlds poor. A Drive to Innovate, and Create, and Grow that is unrivaled in the world.

We must strike the Proper Balance. Balance Between Preserving that System that has created so much Wealth, and the Clearly Needed Social Programs we must fund. We Must find a Way to keep America a Place people want to do Business, and can make a profit doing it.

Lastly, this Drive to hate the Rich. To set some Standard and say nobody needs more than this amount of Money. Is very Dangerous IMO. It is that Drive to be the Richest, to be that First guy with a Billion, 500 Billion. The Drive to get dirty rotten Filthy Stinking Rich that Drives Americas Economy. That Created our Amazing Wealth.

Awesome post Mr. Main. Beautiful.

I can only add one thought: Education.

The one Clearly Needed Social Program with a history of actually getting kids off of welfare is education.
Education has the power to turn the little fuckers into taxpayers instead of welfare families.

 

[Full-Auto]

Bullshit. Don't mistake a government with poor leadership for ineptness. In spite of the rumors, most federal programs with a direct impact are run efficiently.

Medicare is one of the largest health insurers and they run at 95% to 98% efficiency, depending on whose numbers you look at. Meaning that the overhead to administer the Medicare insurance program is 3% to 5% and 95 to 98 cents out of every dollar in premiums and taxes collected is paid out in benefits.

The BEST run private health insurers run between 75% and 80% efficiency. Meaning 20 to 25 cents of your premium dollar goes to overhead and only 75 to 80 cents is available to pay claims.

What you call "efficiency" is actually them refusing to pay the whole bill

How are those costs passed on?


If every widget I made I got to pass 95 percent of the cost off to someone else
well yeah, it would look pretty good too


By 2049, Medicare, Medicaid and Social Security will consume all tax revenues. Medicare spending is adding to future deficits faster than any other spending.

What you're talking about are valid points but have nothing to do with how efficiently the bureaucracy is managed.

The fact is that only 75 to 80 cents of our 'health care dollars' paid in trust to our private health insurance bureaucracies goes toward paying claims and the government runs their bureaucracy at an efficiency of 95 to 98 cents per dollar collected benefiting the customers DIRECTLY. It's not rocket science.

One can claim that the private insurer bureaucracies are worth the difference (I would disagree), but one can not say the government is inefficient when compared to private bureaucracies doing exactly the same service. The numbers don't support the thesis.

Cute comparison that has been debunked because of measurement criteria.

You need something much better.

 

[PredFan]

hmmmm....?

Well....?

We don't. It's bullshit.

Next?

 

[AVG-JOE]

why does the right unquestionably trust big business?

Simple. We don't Despite you thinking we do. We are fully aware the Big Business exists to Make Money, and should never simply be trusted and not have any Kind of Over site at all.

What we do Trust Big Business, and any Business to do, is Create Wealth, and Generate Economic Activity and Jobs. Being Profit Driven is not all Bad. It is that Drive that Leads to Innovation of New Industries and Products, and it is that Drive that leads the Small Business employing 20 People to Grow into the Company Employing 1000 People.

Only the Most Partisan Hack people on the right, will not admit that American Capitalism has some rather Big Flaws. However there is no Denying what American Capitalism was able to Create. A Nation of 300 Million living one of the Highest Standards of Living on earth. A Nation where even most of the poor are Rich in comparison with the Rest of the worlds poor. A Drive to Innovate, and Create, and Grow that is unrivaled in the world.

We must strike the Proper Balance. Balance Between Preserving that System that has created so much Wealth, and the Clearly Needed Social Programs we must fund. We Must find a Way to keep America a Place people want to do Business, and can make a profit doing it.

Lastly, this Drive to hate the Rich. To set some Standard and say nobody needs more than this amount of Money. Is very Dangerous IMO. It is that Drive to be the Richest, to be that First guy with a Billion, 500 Billion. The Drive to get dirty rotten Filthy Stinking Rich that Drives Americas Economy. That Created our Amazing Wealth.

For the most part these are fair statements. To the extent that you feed into this hate the rich crap you are missing the point. Most do not care if the rich make more money if they have talent and ability. What they do find intolerable is egomania and those at the top unfairly paying or hoarding resources. Much like they are doing today. The resources of this country belong to all citizens. Not just a few.

The plain and simple truth is that statistically speaking our economy is out of balance. A balanced economy shows a nicely sloping bell curve for wealth distribution, reflecting about the same raw data numbers for the top 10% of wealth holders as it does for the bottom 10%.

Ours is out of balance - how to fix it is THE discussion on this and every other board, but the FIRST step to fixing it is admitting we have a problem.

 

[Steelplate]

Yeah. Which is why I trust the people and not the politicians to govern themselves.

Why should I be angry at my neighbor for running a successful business? Why should I give up my rights to the politicians so they can claim to go after my neighbor who has done nothing to me?

The People govern themselves through the politicians that they elect. Have you ever actually read the Constitution?

Who said you should be angry at your neighbor? What rights exactly are you being asked to give up?

The right to keep the % of my property/income that I am now if taxes are raised.
The right to not purchase health insurance from a private company.
The right to leave my body uninsured (thought lefties wanted the gov't to stay away from the right to do what we want with our bodies!?)
The right to not have the TSA see my body's nude outline.
The right to protect the integrity of our borders for armed foreign invaders, aka, drug cartels, who the Obama Admin just may have armed.

I can keep going.

Pssst.... don't forget the light bulbs... tell him about the light bulbs....

 

[Steelplate]

I get my paycheck from big business. Thanks to my manager for hiring. The job kinda sucks. Thats why they gotta pay me to show up. But they pay me. Otherwise, I'd be sleeping in a tent in some shitty park taking a crap on cop cars and listening to a pony tailed hippy dude go on and on about how good communism.

Instead, I just watched the Jets vs Broncos in high def, and live a nice life. Because I work for a company. Novel concept.

So you think that sitting on your couch in front of the television instead of being out doing something relevant is the way to live?

So you think that sitting on your couch in front of the television instead of being out doing something relevant is the way to live?

Yup.After working all day and being compensated for it by the big evil corporations that the left hate it's good to lay around and watch a football game.

Instead of worshiping government and laying about and waiting around for a government check that working taxpayers have to provide I'd rather put some trust and effort to help my company prosper because I trust the owner of my company to do his best to survive in a tough Obama economy.In Obama government I trust not....

You losers are all alike. If someone is not with you, they are on welfare collecting a government check. I guess that belief is what allows you to look yourself in the mirror and sleep at night.

 

[AVG-JOE]

The one thing that I know to be true, Marc...is that if you want something to cost three times as much and take twice as long to get done...you let the government do it.

It's not that I trust businesses unquestionably...it's that I KNOW that government is inept.

Bullshit. Don't mistake a government with poor leadership for ineptness. In spite of the rumors, most federal programs with a direct impact are run efficiently.

Medicare is one of the largest health insurers and they run at 95% to 98% efficiency, depending on whose numbers you look at. Meaning that the overhead to administer the Medicare insurance program is 3% to 5% and 95 to 98 cents out of every dollar in premiums and taxes collected is paid out in benefits.

The BEST run private health insurers run between 75% and 80% efficiency. Meaning 20 to 25 cents of your premium dollar goes to overhead and only 75 to 80 cents is available to pay claims.

YOU don't know what you are talking about!!!@
Medicare is one of the largest health insurers and they run at 95% to 98% efficiency, depending on whose numbers you look at. Meaning that the overhead to administer the Medicare insurance program is 3% to 5% and 95 to 98 cents out of every dollar in premiums and taxes collected is paid out in benefits.

There are 9 FOR profit companies that handle all the claims for Medicare!
These companies CONTRACT with Medicare and MEDICARE does NOT pay ONE CLAIM!
Those evil health insurance companies contracted with Medicare PAY the claims!
OH and that marvelous efficient Medicare???
YOU have NO clue but almost ALL 6,000+ hospitals that take Medicare HAVE to therefore SEE Emergency patients!
Again part of the GROSS inefficiency of Medicare where they in 1986 called EMTALA are required.
THUS the hospitals WITH MEDICARE's Approval MARKUP services 6,000% above costs!
Tell me your local hospital and I'll show you the figures where fore example a CAT scan done by your hospital MAY cost $70 to perform and your hospital marks up 2,000% to Medicare!

All because of EMTALA!
$47 billion last year passed on to Medicare by hospitals in because they had to see non paying patients DUE TO EMTALA!

You don't know what you are talking about ...I do! 18,000 times a day Medicare providers use services I created in a my business with Medicare!
I KNOW what I'm talking about!

All I'm addressing is the efficiency of the bureaucracy. If using contractors to do some of the paperwork is what it takes to run at peak efficiency, I have no problem with that.

The points you bring up may be valid - Medicare certainly could use some rule changes to simplify the process, if nothing else. However, the thesis of my post in the context of this thread, stands: The government CAN and DOES run bureaucracies more efficiently than does the private sector, using an 'apples to apples' comparison.

 

[Intense]

hmmmm....?

Well....?

It's a False Premise Marc. I'm Right. I prefer Small Enterprise. You need to work on that round hole, square peg, fixation of yours.

That Right championing Private Property Rights for Each of Us, both Rich and Poor is another matter. Could it be you are confusing issues? You do understand that without Private Property Rights the game is over, right?.... Think about it.

 

[Steelplate]

Good God man, what college professor brainwashed you?????

So, you think the founder/owner of Americas largest "evil" company Sam Walton (Wal Mart) never did any work?

If the employees are so much better, smarter, hard working than the owner, they can START THEIR OWN DAMN COMPANY like the owner did. And out-peform him. Eventually, they too will be rich.

Yes, businesses pay their employees to HELP them. Help them profit and succeed and survive. Owners MANAGE.

Your logic is basically like saying a NFL football coach doesnt do anything to win a game, ONLY the players do. Uh.......see how stupid that sounds? CEOs/Managers are the "coaches" of a company. Employees are the players. It's simple shit man.

Bullshit...there's a lot more to it than "hard work" There's a hell of a lot of luck, finding an area that hasn't already been saturated by some monopolistic conglomerate(which there isn't a hell of a lot out there), and having Capital to work with to START YOUR OWN DAMN COMPANY.

Luck is nothing you can count on, the opportunities are dwindling(sure, you can open up say... a local coffee shop, but you will never compete with Starbucks in earnings), and it's pretty obvious that Banks aren't loaning to small business(I happen to think it's because of pressure from BIG BUSINESS to keep the economy floundering on purpose to further their right wing agenda...but that's just me).

So... Personally, I think you are naive to the power that the ultra rich and powerful have on this country.

 

[skookerasbil]

hmmmm....?

Well....?

s0n????

"The right"???

This is still America.............guys that think like this meathead above and MArcAtl are well..............losing

 

[AVG-JOE]

What you call "efficiency" is actually them refusing to pay the whole bill

How are those costs passed on?


If every widget I made I got to pass 95 percent of the cost off to someone else
well yeah, it would look pretty good too


By 2049, Medicare, Medicaid and Social Security will consume all tax revenues. Medicare spending is adding to future deficits faster than any other spending.

What you're talking about are valid points but have nothing to do with how efficiently the bureaucracy is managed.

The fact is that only 75 to 80 cents of our 'health care dollars' paid in trust to our private health insurance bureaucracies goes toward paying claims and the government runs their bureaucracy at an efficiency of 95 to 98 cents per dollar collected benefiting the customers DIRECTLY. It's not rocket science.

One can claim that the private insurer bureaucracies are worth the difference (I would disagree), but one can not say the government is inefficient when compared to private bureaucracies doing exactly the same service. The numbers don't support the thesis.

Cute comparison that has been debunked because of measurement criteria.

You need something much better.

No I don't. It is an 'apples to apples' comparison of efficiency using very public numbers, nothing more.

Medicare.gov
The United States Social Security Administration
Yahoo! Finance - Business Finance, Stock Market, Quotes, News

 

[kaz]

hmmmm....?

Well....?

Such a stupid question from someone who presents himself as a thinker. I'll once again tell you the obvious so you can ignore it. I'm libertarian, but it's a fiscal question and I'm fiscally right.

We don't trust big business, we trust consumer choice. We don't have to trust business when consumers have choice. You mind numbing liberals on the other hand trust government who actually removes choice, so you actually do have to trust them.

People like you are why I've stopped trying to seriously debate liberals and I just get on and insult you once in awhile for fun. There is no point. And you will once again go forward and ignore this, drool, and ask the right why they blindly trust big business, won't you?

 

[Steelplate]

When Business becomes part of a federal government that's is what is called fascism. I thought my conservatives brothers and sisters believed in smaller government that want to the states...

Then you must oppose Obama since he has made a lot of big corporations like Goldman Sachs, IAG, GM and Chrysler arms of the federal government.

Ok... I'll give you GM and Chrysler...he bailed them out. But they certainly aren't "arms of the federal government". That's Rush talking.

As far as the financial bailouts... they're all yours.. Thanks W....

 

[Steelplate]

Another non sequitur by the Left to deny their crony capitalist tendencies

Papa Obama cuts secret deals with Big Pharma
No doubt there was a lot of trust there

Excellent point. A point that disgusts me to no end. I'll still vote for him though. He's better than ANYTHING the right wing has to offer. Well... except for perhaps Ron Paul. But there are some basic ideological issues I have with Paul.

First off... we are a BETTER country than to "let people die" if they get sick and don't have insurance. We are a BETTER country than to revert to the Caveman days when it was survival of the fittest and might makes right(financially speaking, I know Paul is somewhat of a pacifist militarily...which I like).

 

[Steelplate]

Even before in power

Goldman Sachs $1,013,091
Harvard University $878,164
Microsoft Corp $852,167
Google Inc $814,540
JPMorgan Chase & Co $808,799
Citigroup Inc $736,771
Time Warner $624,618



Goldman Sachs was top Obama donor in 2008 election cycle

Back to the hopper for you, fool

Hey.. don't blame the recipient of the donation...Blame the system we have that forces Candidates to take those donations from self serving entities that will demand recompense for their "investment" to run a campaign.