Why Do Whites Think They Can Tell Us What The Problems in Black America Are?

[Paul Essien]

mga138
Ok--Then I will say that I think race is biological. I believe that those biological differences are hereditary and affect far more than just skin color (skin tone is just a small detail among many differences between the races). I say that the races have different average intelligence, and that is biological and inheritable as well. I will say that the biggest hoax of our time is the notion that Blacks are relentless victims of White racism and that this racism is responsible for the the disparities that we see in society. So, my first question to you is--do you believe that race is a biological reality or merely a social construct?

Look. There is only one human species (Homo Sapiens)

But - NO - we are not all the same.

Yes - There are persistent and real genetic differences that cluster within racial groups, and more so than many have believed.

Yet these differences still fall far short of indicating sub-speciation, which is the normal standard used by biologists to indicate different “races” or breeds of a larger species.

DNA studies do not indicate that separate classifiable subspecies (races) exist within modern humans.

While different genes for physical traits such as skin and hair colour can be identified between individuals.

No consistent patterns of genes across the human genome exist to distinguish one race from another.

It has never been a case of there not being differences between the way human beings look.

The trouble is in the imprecise taxonomy. How do you define a “race” and might there not be other equally valid ways of dividing humans into taxonomical groupings ?

We have been here before - Many scientists worked hard (REAL HARD) on finding working definition of race as a biological fact. They all failed.

They all failed not because genetic differences can’t be observed between various humans (after all, if there weren’t mDNA differences, we wouldn’t know much about human maternal ancestry).

They all failed because genetic differences do not support social races, races that divide people into (pardon my words) “black”, “white”, “yellow” and “red”.

The only living subspecies of the species Homo sapiens is Homo sapiens sapiens. That is current scientific knowledge. And it is very likely to remain the only one, unless Sasquatch or the Yeti decide to walk into a science lab for a DNA test one day.

There is a reason why blood transfusions and bone marrow transplants work. This is why a “black ” persons blood can save an white Irishman’s life with a transfusion and vice versa Some blood types have an affinity for certain groups of people…but the genes are the same.

 

[Unkotare]

The Myth of Race — Harvard University Press

Biological races do not exist—and never have. This view is shared by all scientists who study variation in human populations. Yet racial prejudice and intolerance based on the myth of race remain deeply ingrained in Western society. In his powerful examination of a persistent, false, and...

www.hup.harvard.edu

 

[Unkotare]

.... First of all, those are mostly Jewish productions, ......

Oh, here we go...the picture is becoming more complete...

 

[mga138]

mga138
Ok--Then I will say that I think race is biological. I believe that those biological differences are hereditary and affect far more than just skin color (skin tone is just a small detail among many differences between the races). I say that the races have different average intelligence, and that is biological and inheritable as well. I will say that the biggest hoax of our time is the notion that Blacks are relentless victims of White racism and that this racism is responsible for the the disparities that we see in society. So, my first question to you is--do you believe that race is a biological reality or merely a social construct?

Look. There is only one human species (Homo Sapiens)

But - NO - we are not all the same.

Yes - There are persistent and real genetic differences that cluster within racial groups, and more so than many have believed.

Yet these differences still fall far short of indicating sub-speciation, which is the normal standard used by biologists to indicate different “races” or breeds of a larger species.

DNA studies do not indicate that separate classifiable subspecies (races) exist within modern humans.

While different genes for physical traits such as skin and hair colour can be identified between individuals.

No consistent patterns of genes across the human genome exist to distinguish one race from another.

It has never been a case of there not being differences between the way human beings look.

The trouble is in the imprecise taxonomy. How do you define a “race” and might there not be other equally valid ways of dividing humans into taxonomical groupings ?

We have been here before - Many scientists worked hard (REAL HARD) on finding working definition of race as a biological fact. They all failed.

They all failed not because genetic differences can’t be observed between various humans (after all, if there weren’t mDNA differences, we wouldn’t know much about human maternal ancestry).

They all failed because genetic differences do not support social races, races that divide people into (pardon my words) “black”, “white”, “yellow” and “red”.

The only living subspecies of the species Homo sapiens is Homo sapiens sapiens. That is current scientific knowledge. And it is very likely to remain the only one, unless Sasquatch or the Yeti decide to walk into a science lab for a DNA test one day.

There is a reason why blood transfusions and bone marrow transplants work. This is why a “black ” persons blood can save an white Irishman’s life with a transfusion and vice versa Some blood types have an affinity for certain groups of people…but the genes are the same.

That is a good start in that we partially agree. Where we do not agree is when you claim that science has no way to differentiate the races. On the contrary, actually. Science tells us that Race is Real.
Maybe for you this is just a difference of nomenclature, but we know that there is a 15% genetic variation between the races (the differences between dog breeds is about 30 percent). 15 percent may not seem like much, but when you consider that 1 chromosome difference can bring on all the differences between a man and a woman, it shows what slight differences will do.

There are racial differences in hormone levels, brain size, eye size, hair type, intelligence, bone density, gestation periods, fat distribution, age of development onset, disease rates, etc. Scientists can even identify the race of an individual by looking at the bacteria in their mouth. I’ve even heard of the drug called Bidil, which is a heart medication for African black people, only (some conventional medications do not work as well on the Negro race) and it works on Blacks and nobody else.
Racial differences are so real that there are race-specific diagnostic tests that hospitals must perform, and an MD could be sued for malpractice if he or she were to pretend that race was just a “Social construct,” as so many would have us believe. You can call is differences races or sub-species, if you wish, but whatever you call it, it is real, and it is Not an illusion.

 

[mga138]

Oh, here we go...the picture is becoming more complete...

Do you claim otherwise?

 

[Unkotare]

The Concept of “Race” Is a Lie

Even the Ancient Greeks knew it

blogs.scientificamerican.com

 

[Unkotare]

There’s no scientific basis for race—it's a made-up label

It's been used to define and separate people for millennia. But the concept of race is not grounded in genetics.

www.nationalgeographic.com

 

[Unkotare]

RACE - The Power of an Illusion . Background Readings | PBS

www.pbs.org

 

[Unkotare]

The Disturbing Resilience of Scientific Racism

A new book explores how racist biases continue to maintain a foothold in research today

www.smithsonianmag.com

 

[Unkotare]

Myth of race still embedded in scientific research, scholar says | Cornell Chronicle

Dorothy Roberts, a scholar from the University of Pennsylvania, talked about race and racism and a more ethical way to study them Nov. 15 at the 2017 Institute for the Social Sciences' Annual Lecture.

news.cornell.edu

 

[Unkotare]

The Ideology of Racism: Misusing Science to Justify Racial Discrimination | United Nations

In his exceptionally insightful book, Racism: A Short History, Stanford University historian George M. Fredrickson notes the paradox that notions of human equality were the necessary precondition to the emergence of racism.

www.un.org

 

[mga138]

The Concept of “Race” Is a Lie

Even the Ancient Greeks knew it

blogs.scientificamerican.com

I don't mean to laugh, but if you want to get involved in this discussion, you'll have to do more than post nonsense. Read it if you wish, and then come back with your own words arguments on the subject. Headline postings isn't useful in a discussion.

 

[Unkotare]

I don't mean to laugh, but if you want to get involved in this discussion, you'll have to do more than post nonsense. Read it and come back with your own words on the subject.

Read all of the MANY links I have posted then post your personal credentials relevant to the issue. We can compare them to those of the MANY scientists directly quoted in the posted articles. Won't that be fun?

 

[Unkotare]

Does Race Exist? | Duke University Science & Society

scienceandsociety.duke.edu

 

[Unkotare]

Why Are We Divided by Race When There Is No Such Thing?

The notion of race may be real, but the science is not. We are all the same, with no exceptions.

www.newsweek.com

 

[Unkotare]

Are You There, Race? It’s Me, DNA

What would you say is Liam Neeson’s race? I ask this question because in this era of the gene, of people swabbing their cheeks to know where their ancestors came from, and of racism glazed over with the shiny patina of science, many people feel confused about race. They have heard that it’s a...

www.mcgill.ca

 

[Paul Essien]

mga138
That is a good start in that we partially agree. Where we do not agree is when you claim that science has no way to differentiate the races. On the contrary, actually. Science tells us that Race is Real. Maybe for you this is just a difference of nomenclature, but we know that there is a 15% genetic variation between the races (the differences between dog breeds is about 30 percent). 15 percent may not seem like much, but when you consider that 1 chromosome difference can bring on all the differences between a man and a woman, it shows what slight differences will do.

Any two humans are 99.9% genetically the same according to the Human Genome Project.
And even that 0.1% is mostly made up of individual differences. Only 6.3% of that 0.1% comes from differences between races.

Races have pretty much the same set of genes, just in different frequencies. And even those frequencies do not always fall along the lines of race. Skin colour changes as you go north to south. The frequency of blood type B changes as you go east to west.

The racial designations that we currently use are principally based on three characteristics.

1) Facial structure
2) Skin color
3) Hair texture.

Those are things that are controlled by six genes out of thirty thousand genes in the human genome.

mga138
There are racial differences in hormone levels, brain size, eye size, hair type, intelligence, bone density, gestation periods, fat distribution, age of development onset, disease rates, etc.

But if you are trying to ground those differences (hormone levels, brain size, eye size, hair type, intelligence, bone density, gestation periods, fat distribution, age of development onset, disease rates) as genetics product of race the very first thing you need to do is offer up a genetic or biological definition of race, something no one has not done nor has any
study.

But I always, sit back, invite people like yourself to give such a definition. Mainly because their fumbling attempts to define race point out just how subjective such definitions are.

In close to a decade of debating race with racists on and off USMB. I have yet to see any one of them, no matter what their scientific credentials, offer up an acceptably neutral definition of race

You jump to the term “race” whose various denitions are about as malleable as chewing gum. If you’re saying that physical features determine “race” which exactly are those features ?

Applying circular logic, the answer would be “the features group members share based on their region of origin”. And then again, what are those features ?

 

[Paul Essien]

mga138
Racial differences are so real that there are race-specific diagnostic tests that hospitals must perform, and an MD could be sued for malpractice if he or she were to pretend that race was just a “Social construct,” as so many would have us believe. You can call is differences races or sub-species, if you wish, but whatever you call it, it is real, and it is Not an illusion.

I've never claimed that race is a social construct. Don't put words in my mouth.

This is an Indian Albino child

And an Indian albino woman

They could easily pass as white. But does there hormone levels, brain size, eye size, hair type, intelligence, bone density, gestation periods, fat distribution, age of development onset, disease rates change because they have white skin now ?

Even the most cursory googling on the subject of African genetic diversity will show you
that African peoples have extremely diverse and divergent genetic makeups.

They cannot possible all be guided by the same “dumb gene” or the same “violence gene,” or “fast running gene.”

Yet guys like you try to treat all black people if they are a single genetic race. It doesn’t matter if they have a variety of different features, or if groups have different average heights, have reached different levels of civilization, and self-identify as different peoples.

NO! Blacks are all ONE race, not two, or five, or twenty Black races but ONE !!

Because in order for this to really work, it requires a genetically homogenous race of Blacks who all share roughly the same DNA.

And how about “White people?” They are certainly less genetically diverse than Blacks, but they
obviously have genetic variance between say… Scandinavians and Italians or Anglo Saxons and
Spaniards.

Who are the genetically dumber and disadvantaged Whites ? If there is enough genetic difference for white to have different hair colour, eye colour and different average height, then why not intelligence?

You don’t want to face the idea that you might belong to the dumbest group of White people in their little hierarchy, so they theorize that “Whiteness” simply makes all Whites just as capable, and all Blacks equally disadvantaged

 

[Correll]

mga138
Racial differences are so real that there are race-specific diagnostic tests that hospitals must perform, and an MD could be sued for malpractice if he or she were to pretend that race was just a “Social construct,” as so many would have us believe. You can call is differences races or sub-species, if you wish, but whatever you call it, it is real, and it is Not an illusion.

I've never claimed that race is a social construct. Don't put words in my mouth.

This is an Indian Albino child

And an Indian albino woman

They could easily pass as white. But does there hormone levels, brain size, eye size, hair type, intelligence, bone density, gestation periods, fat distribution, age of development onset, disease rates change because they have white skin now ?

Even the most cursory googling on the subject of African genetic diversity will show you
that African peoples have extremely diverse and divergent genetic makeups.

They cannot possible all be guided by the same “dumb gene” or the same “violence gene,” or “fast running gene.”

Yet guys like you try to treat all black people if they are a single genetic race. It doesn’t matter if they have a variety of different features, or if groups have different average heights, have reached different levels of civilization, and self-identify as different peoples.

NO! Blacks are all ONE race, not two, or five, or twenty Black races but ONE !!

Because in order for this to really work, it requires a genetically homogenous race of Blacks who all share roughly the same DNA.

And how about “White people?” They are certainly less genetically diverse than Blacks, but they
obviously have genetic variance between say… Scandinavians and Italians or Anglo Saxons and
Spaniards.

Who are the genetically dumber and disadvantaged Whites ? If there is enough genetic difference for white to have different hair colour, eye colour and different average height, then why not intelligence?

You don’t want to face the idea that you might belong to the dumbest group of White people in their little hierarchy, so they theorize that “Whiteness” simply makes all Whites just as capable, and all Blacks equally disadvantaged

Good job finding some odd exceptions to the rules.


Hey, look what I found when I goggled "White Guy".

Can you guess what race he is, just by looking at him?


Hey, look what I found when I goggled Black Guy.

Can you guess what race he is, just by looking at him?

 

[mga138]

Why Are We Divided by Race When There Is No Such Thing?

The notion of race may be real, but the science is not. We are all the same, with no exceptions.

www.newsweek.com

None of your links mean anything; you will have to take what is in them (I suspect you have read none of them) and make the argument yourself. This is a discussion board, and posting articles by other people defeats the purpose of it. Also, I have read all of those articles and they are POLITICAL, not science-based. They do NOT refute anything I have written